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Download it today from the App Store or Google Play. If I don't stand up and say, no, no, no, no, no. What you're saying is wrong. Your attempt to silence me is wrong. It is in fact unconstitutional.
It is in fact against the laws of the United States. If you don't say that, if I don't say that, then I'm not doing my job. I'm not discharging my oath and performing my duty. And I also think that I am giving credence to this mob mentality.
And I'm making it harder for people all across the country to take a stand and to express their views and have the benefit of the First Amendment. Senator Josh Hawley is our guest today on Focus on the Family, helping equip you to stand up for your beliefs in a world that would really prefer you to be silent. Your host is Focus President and author Jim Daly and I'm John Fuller. And one of my favorite verses is in John chapter 16 when Jesus said, In this world you will have trouble, but take heart.
I've overcome the world. And that should be all we need to know is that Jesus has this in his hands. He knows what's happening in our culture and in our world. But even though as Christians we know that Jesus is our ultimate source of peace and comfort, but it's easy to get caught up in the trouble of this world in that part of the verse. It's no secret that biblical values are under attack.
You'd have to have your head in the sand not to see it. And Christians are increasingly being silenced when we express disagreement with the elite culture. In fact, I read just the other day, I think the 31st of January in USA Today, they had an op-ed by Rachel Mikva. And the headline was this, Christian nationalism is a threat and not just from capital attackers invoking Jesus. The subtitle read, Christian nationalists inside our government are working quietly to take America for Jesus. They are the more resilient danger to religious pluralism. And all of us know there's fringe elements on every side and even within the Christian faith. Those who claim to be Christian don't act Christian.
And that is true, and I acknowledge that. But for the 100 million evangelical Christians who are simply acknowledging that Jesus is the Son of God, that we are sinners and we are saved by His grace, and that we have eternal life when we embrace Him, that's our message. And frankly, the whole nationalism besmirching is just to clump everybody together in order to demean Christians in the public square. But they cannot silence us. We live in a country where we have freedom of expression.
We have freedom of religion. And we need to, I think, express that and begin to turn the tide so people can respect us being at the table as well. Today, we want to encourage you to take heart, as Jesus said. Here at Focus, we're about marriage and parenting, of course, but one of our five pillars is also about engaging the culture. And we want to equip you to live for Christ in the public square and stand for His truth. I like to say what Dr. Barry Corey, a friend of mine, the president of Biola says, which is, let's be firm in the middle and soft on the edges.
And that gets tough when those edges are being frayed, right? We were with Senator Hawley, someone who has directly experienced this cancel culture, and we talked to him about it. And you did so, Jim, in Washington, D.C., very recently. Senator Hawley is a man of faith. He began serving in the U.S. Senate in 2019, and before that, he was the attorney general of the state of Missouri.
And he and his wife, Erin, have three young children. Here now is how, Jim, you started that conversation with Senator Josh Hawley on today's episode of Focus on the Family. Senator Hawley, it's great to have you on Focus on the Family.
Thanks for having me. Let me say it as straight as I can. You've had a rough couple of weeks. Tell me what's going on, and in that context of cancel culture. Well, I think we're really seeing here the left. Many people on the left feel very emboldened right now, and they are trying to shut down conservative voices all across the country and from all different backgrounds. Conservative voices in politics, conservative voices in media, conservative voices in the faith community. And it's really the liberal woke mob is out there. And, you know, I have to tell you, actually, I'm honored to be a target, because I think that means that I'm doing something right and standing up for the things that we believe in, and I'm not going to be intimidated. You know, one of the difficult things, and I've talked to some of your colleagues about this as well, Senator Lankford and others, of course, he has that background as being a youth pastor, but how to operate in this culture as a Christian who has convictions and being able to express ourselves, it's getting to the point where the Christian community, conservative Christian, is expected to keep their head down. That's right.
Because if you pop up, you'll get it lopped off. And we have a whole host of examples, and unfortunately, you're one of many. Yeah, no, that's exactly right. And that's why if you are a believer, I think the only way that the left and the cancel culture wins is if we agree to be silent.
You know, we have to have the confidence and the firmness. We do it graciously, of course, but we've got to firmly stand up and say, no, no, no, our voices deserve to be heard. And in my case, I've got a duty to represent my constituents, so it's really not about me at all. I have a duty to go and say, my constituents and their voices deserve to be heard, and I don't care what you try to do to me, I'm going to stand up and represent them.
Yeah, I want people to know exactly why they came after you. Basically, as a senator, and correct me if I'm wrong, you were questioning the constitutionality of the vote, especially in Pennsylvania, where the state supreme court and the secretary of state made some decisions unilaterally, separate from the legislature in that state, in terms of the voting procedures. That seems like a fair question.
Yeah, absolutely right. The constitution and then the laws and the rules of the Senate all provide for during the electoral vote certification that happens every January 6th after presidential election. It allows for there to be objections to particular states. If you object, then you have a debate. And I said about a week before January 6th, I said, I'm going to object, and particularly focused on Pennsylvania, because I think we need to have a debate about election integrity, both in this last election and going forward. And I think things like mail-in balloting, where you have ballot harvesting, where third parties are paid to go collect these ballots and bring them back, and there are no signature verification, I think that probably needs to be banned.
And I've introduced legislation to do it, and I said, I want to have a debate on this. And I think what Pennsylvania did, where they didn't even follow their own constitution, is indicative of the kind of irregularities that we've seen. And going forward, we need to do something about this.
Now, Democrats objected in 2001, in 2005, in 2017, and they were praised every time they did. But when Ted Cruz and I and a bunch of other Republicans in the House and Senate, when we objected, we were told, oh, my God, you're violating the constitution. You're inciting violence. You're traitors. In fact, some suggested that you should be removed from the Senate.
Right. I should resign. I should be expelled.
I should be investigated. And that's where we get to the council culture aspect of this. I'll just say this. It's perfectly fine to have a different viewpoint and say, you know, Josh, I don't agree with your objection, or I don't think it was the right forum.
That's fine. I mean, that's why we have debate. That's why we have the debate. But to say, oh, you shouldn't even be permitted to follow the laws and the rules of the Senate the way the Democrats do. If you did what they did, you should be expelled. You should be silenced. That's an assault on the First Amendment. That's cancel culture. And as we look at that, there's going to be some Christians listening now that say, well, maybe as a Christian, that's the thing to do, is not to confront that, to give them the other cheek.
And I understand that. But how would you, if you're sitting with that person, and they're sincerely expressing that to you, what do you say to them? My view is, is that as an elected official, I have a responsibility to faithfully adhere to the Constitution and to represent my constituents. And so when people come and attack me and they say, because you took a stand that reflects the views of your constituents, we want to shut you down. That is effectively saying, we're going to try to silence your constituents. I have an obligation to stand up and say no to that.
You do it graciously. You know, you don't have to be ugly about it. But you do have to be firm. My view is, if I don't, if I don't stand up and say, no, no, no, no, no, what you're saying is wrong. Your attempt to silence me is wrong. It is, in fact, unconstitutional.
It is, in fact, against the laws of the United States. If you don't say that, if I don't say that, then I'm not doing my job. I'm not discharging my oath and performing my duty. And I also think that I am giving credence to this mob mentality. And I'm making it harder for people all across the country to take a stand and to express their views and have the benefit of the First Amendment.
I do appreciate that. You know, I really, I'm trying to teach my boys who are 18 and 20 what's going on in this world to equip them for their future. And I think it's important for us to act when it's time to act and to express our views. We live in a democracy.
The Lord has given us that birthright. And so here we are. Let me get to some of the examples. You look at what happened to Mr. Ike, who was the president of Mozilla. He had given money to a campaign that opposed same-sex marriage back many years ago. And he was drummed out of that role as president of that company.
He was the founder of the company. There's many other examples we can talk about. But there's an insidiousness occurring right now that people's livelihood is at stake as well. Absolutely.
And I can just look at my own state of Missouri. Small business owners who have just, you know, mom-and-pop businesses who have maybe donated to conservative causes, donated to faith-based causes, donated to Republican candidates, and they're now on boycott lists. The left comes after them and says to people, go demonstrate in front of their offices, boycott their products, shut them out. You know, this is crazy stuff. And we're seeing, I think, for the first time, an alliance between the big corporations, the biggest corporations in this country, the monopoly corporations, and the woke left.
And this is something we've not really seen before. It's not just the power of government that's being brought to bear. It's the power of these giant corporations in tandem. And that's scary because people really do say, well, wow, am I going to be able to keep my business? Am I going to be able to keep my job?
What if I express my views based on the Bible, based on the teaching of my church and my job? Am I going to be fired and then blacklisted, not able to get another job in this industry? This is happening all over in all of these different industries. And this is why those of us who have a voice have to be willing to stand up and take the incoming criticism and fire and say, we're going to take a stand here on behalf of the people we represent and on behalf of the things we believe in, the First Amendment.
No, it's so good. And then you've experienced, I mean, the cancel culture came to your home. I mean, I caught that on the news. And I tell you, my wife, Jean, and I, we started praying for you and your wife, Aaron, because we thought, what a fearful moment. You were not there at the house. I wasn't there. Yeah, that was what was scary.
And describe that scene for us so our listeners can realize. Well, you know, it was I was home in Missouri with we've got three kids. And so I was home in Missouri with my two boys. Now, our youngest is newborn, Abigail. She's two months old, so she can't travel yet.
She can't be on airplanes. So my wife, Aaron, and the newborn baby were here in D.C. We had just been in session. So our session at the Senate just ended. I had just taken the two boys home for a few days. And so Aaron and baby Abigail were here and a whole group of protesters, an Antifa affiliated group, came to our door to our street with bullhorns. And they were screaming and yelling and some neighbors came out and they turned the bullhorns and screamed on them.
And so my wife came to the door eventually and she just said, listen, I've got it. She had the baby with her. She said, I've got a newborn baby. This is people are trying to sleep and, you know, this is a calm neighborhood.
Josh isn't here. You know, please go home. And they started screaming at her and yelling at the baby, talking about, do you want your baby to have a future? And so it really alarmed her. She went to the door, shut the door. And then they came to the door after that and pounded on the door. They brought bullhorns to the door and shouted, come out, come out, come out. So eventually, actually, a number of neighbors called the police because, you know, folks were so alarmed. Neighbors tried to come out, talk to them. They screamed at them. So they called the police. The police eventually arrived and, you know, the police told them, listen, you're violating the law.
You need to leave. And they eventually did. But it was quite an experience. It was very confrontational. It was very aggressive.
It was meant to terrorize and instill fear. And I just, we said in the response to that, listen, we're not going to hide. We're not going to cower. But nor are we just going to roll over and say that's okay. I mean, they came to our home trying to inspire fear, trying to terrorize, trying to disrupt the neighborhood, terrorize our neighbors. And we said, that's not okay. I mean, it's okay to disagree, but it's not okay to come and do that.
And we're not going to say it's acceptable, but nor are we going to be afraid. No, and I so appreciate that courage. In addition to that, you had a book, a big book, Contract Cancel by Simon & Schuster. Regnery has picked that up. Again, speak to that issue of the cancel culture and what they're trying to do to you by intimidating you that way. What was that call like with Simon & Schuster? Well, they didn't even call me.
I mean, I've read about it in the news. They didn't have the decency to tell me. They just gave in to the mob and said, they'd commissioned the book and they said, yeah, we're canceling.
By the way, the book is called The Tyranny of Big Tech. It's all about how these big corporations are trying to control our speech and trying to spy on us and trying to track our kids and the harm that they're doing to our country and to our democracy. So here's the thing. I mean, coming after me is an attempt to silence, not just me, but the views of my constituents and the people I represent. And so it's this cancel culture, this idea that if you don't like somebody's view, you should be able to silence them and to blacklist them and to drive them out of public life. And that's why it's important that I take a stand on behalf of the people I represent.
A lot of folks I've heard at home that said I've been kicked off Twitter or my Facebook posts have been limited because I said something about I express my pro-life convictions. These basic First Amendment rights are what we're fighting for. And in that respect, where do we go? How do we fight this battle in a way that honors the Lord but also gives us voice in a democracy? Well, I think that we've got to take our stand on what the Constitution, when it comes to our station of democracy, what our Constitution provides for us. And we have to say, listen, the First Amendment protects the right of all Americans to speak peacefully but to speak nonetheless.
We've got to say that applies to Christians. It applies to conservatives just as much as it applies to folks of other views. So when people try to censor us, whether they try to censor us in the political realm or they try to censor us in these corporations, we need to be bold to say, no, actually, my birthright, to use your word of a minute ago, my birthright as an American is I have these rights guaranteed to me and I'm going to stand up for those. And we don't have to do that.
We don't have to be ugly about it, but I do think we need to be firm and we shouldn't be cowed into submission or silence by the left-wing mob telling us that, no, you must be silent and if you say anything, then we're going to come after you harder. We said, no, the First Amendment. That's why I think that those of us in the policy realm have the responsibility to fight for good policy that's going to protect our First Amendment rights to worship, to speak, and so on.
And so many people, millions of people of faith appreciate that and the fact that you're bold enough to talk about it. Not everybody understands Section 230 of the code. You were Attorney General before you were a senator. Explain to us Section 230 and why breaking up those monopolies, what that will deliver. 230, that's a federal government provision that gives the tech companies special carve-out, special liability. They get treated differently than any other media company in America. You know, if somebody, if a newspaper publishes something against you that's false, you can sue them.
If they engage in other libelous behavior, you can sue them. If they censor you, you can go to court, you can have your day in court. Can't do that with the tech companies. You get censored by Twitter, you're out of luck, you've got to live with it.
Facebook, if they censor you, you don't have any recourse. This has been a giant giveaway to these companies for over 20 years now and my view is they're monopolies, they are abusing their monopoly power. Monopoly power is always a bad idea. They're really abusing it. They need to be held to account and their monopoly power needs to be broken up.
Yeah. You know, some listening might even feel like, well, this is a Christian radio program, a Christian blog. Why are we even talking about politics? And I think one of the hassles right now is that people are backing up.
I mean, they have seen what happens when you talk to your coworker, maybe even a family member about the Trump administration, now the Biden administration, and it becomes ugly. And rather than fight that, many Christians I know are just backing up saying, it's not worth it, I'm going to keep my eyes on eternity. And I feel a little compulsion in that direction to be frank because the big picture is eternity, the big picture is a life with Christ and we always have to be talking to people about that more than Section 230. That's right. And I get that, but we also live in this world and we're also going to leave this world to our kids and grandkids.
That's right. And just speak to me again in that balancing factor for you and Aaron and how you see that. You know, I think that we do have to keep our eyes on eternity and that's what gives us confidence to be faithful now. You know, the Lord calls us to serve him where we are, I mean, in everything you do, do unto the Lord.
He calls us to serve him in our vocations here, to serve our neighbor, to serve him in our vocations. And we can have the confidence to do that faithfully by knowing what our eternal destiny is. And, you know, I love this saying that an old pastor friend of mine says that, you know, in the end, what the scripture says in the end, it's all going to be okay. And if it's not okay, it's not yet the end. And so we know that as Christians, you know, we know that these, we always live in turbulent times.
You know, guess what? We have it so much better than Christians all around the world who are suffering physically violently for their faith. So to the extent that we get backlash because we're believers, you know, it's kind of an honor. I mean, the Bible says it's an honor to be able to stand for the Lord. It's an honor when you're criticized for your beliefs, when you're criticized for being faithful. So I think we keep our eyes on eternity and that gives us the confidence and the boldness to be faithful now in our vocational callings, as moms and dads, in our workplaces, for those who are in public positions, whether it's locally or state or federal or whatever, to be faithful there. And I think that's the balance that Aaron and I at least try to strive to seek and to maintain and the confidence that we have because of what Jesus has done for us and because of the future that He's going to bring. Well, again, we so appreciate your boldness in that way and I think we all as Christians are trying to figure out how to be bold in a culture that is really knocking down what we believe every day and I just applaud the fact that you're willing to stand in the gap for us and to represent your state of Missouri along with many, many Christians from around this country.
You've got to run to a vote. I do. And I so appreciate you taking time, Senator Hawley, for being with us. Thank you and we'll be continuing to pray for your family. Thank you.
Thank you so much. Thanks for your ministry. We've been listening to a conversation recorded recently in Washington, D.C. with Senator Josh Hawley and, Jim, you were there. That was a really challenging conversation and I think the Senator really offered some courage for us all to be strong in our beliefs in Christ and this is something that really is close to your heart, isn't it, John? It is, John, and here at Focus we have experienced the discouragement of being attacked for our biblical values many times. I always try to be the gentleman in that. I want to believe in my principles that I read in Scripture but always be mindful of the non-believer and being kind toward the person outside the church.
That's what Scripture calls us to do. I always think of our experience with Tom Shue's company. You've probably heard of that shoe company. For every pair of shoes purchased, a pair is given to a needy child around the world. Several years ago we wanted to partner with the company and I interviewed the company's founder, Blake Makoski, and at a special event that we did together in California, we were going to air a program. Yeah, we had, I think, at least 1,500 people come out.
Many of them took shoe boxes and decorated them for the shoes that were going to be given away. It was a really warm, wonderful event. It was, but before we could air the broadcast, Blake called me and said he really didn't feel comfortable with it. He posted a blog that said he would no longer associate with Focus on the Family. He said that when he first interviewed with us, he wasn't aware of our stance on traditional marriage between a man and a woman. Apparently, when advocates for same-sex marriage got the word of his partnership with us, they started a boycott of Tom's and attacked the company for partnering with Focus, who they called a hate group. Now again, I just want to state this clearly. If you stand for those biblical principles that we read very clearly, Jesus himself said you're going to leave your mother and father in cleave to your wife.
There's an affirmation of traditional marriage right there. After that blog was posted, I talked to Blake on the phone because we had already taped the program. We could have ignored his wishes and still aired the program. But after talking to him, I agreed not to air the program. It breaks my heart to think how many kids didn't get shoes because of that. But that's the effect of the cancel culture.
It's not about the kids. It's about what they want to achieve and who they want to silence. Yeah, and that was several years ago, as you mentioned, Jim. More recently, here at Focus, we've experienced this on the Twitter page for our culture and news outlet, The Daily Citizen. Yes, a couple of weeks ago, The Daily Citizen team created a tweet that said, quote, On Tuesday, President-elect Joe Biden announced he had chosen Dr. Rachel Levine to serve as Assistant Secretary for Health at the Department of HHS.
That's Health and Human Services. Dr. Levine is a transgendered woman, that is, a man who believes he is a woman, unquote. That tweet linked to an article about Dr. Levine's qualifications for the job, something other news organizations had been addressing as well. But Twitter hid the post, saying it violated the rule of promoting violence, harassing or threatening someone on the basis of gender identity, and warned us that violating that rule, again, may result in permanent suspension of our account.
Until we agree to take down the tweet, our account is locked and we are unable to post. And let me just say, Jon, you know, it was just a statement of fact. It wasn't meant to be mean. I won't tolerate that.
I don't want to ever express hate, but I also want to be accurate in descriptions. Yeah, and so far, we've sent appeal emails to Twitter asking for some clarification and an explanation for how we could have worded that differently. And other news outlets also reported that very same thing, that Dr. Levine is transgender. Right, and this online censorship is happening to many individuals, even non-Christians who are slightly showing a tendency towards biblical values. They may know it, they may not.
For instance, the author J.K. Rowling, a left-wing feminist who wrote the Harry Potter series, she was censored, attacked, and dropped from her publisher because she tweeted that female is a distinct gender, and that was offensive. It's really hard to grasp some of this stuff, Jim, and I think as Christians, as you've already indicated, we need to be in prayer for those who are under fire and trying to navigate these tensions over free speech and religious conviction and religious liberty. Jon, I want to end with this thought. I always think of the comparison between Peter in the garden and Stephen from the book of Acts. You know, Peter, when he's in the garden, he's not filled with the Holy Spirit yet.
He's walking with the Son of God, but it's just that experience. He's walking with the Son of God, and when the guards come to arrest Jesus, Peter decides to defend the Son of God and pulls out a sword. You know, I understand that, but Jesus rebuked him and said, That's not the way of my kingdom.
If you live by the sword, you're going to die by the sword. And he really did speak very harshly toward Peter in that circumstance. But then we see the opposite in Stephen in the book of Acts. He's filled with the Spirit. He can act in a godly way. He's being stoned for his beliefs, his expression of Jesus as the Son of God.
And as he's being stoned, he's able to pray that God would have mercy and forgive the people that are stoning him. I think that's only accomplished through God's Spirit in you. Sure, it took courage for Peter to pull out the sword, but that was human courage. And what Stephen did is godly courage.
And that's the kind of courage we all need to pray that we can have, to boldly stand for truth, calmly, in a world that is increasingly hostile toward us. And that is a great place to kind of wrap up here and to begin your journey living out that faith. We want to put a great book into your hands. Jim has written the book Refocus, Living a Life that Reflects God's Heart.
It's an excellent resource. We'll make that available to you for a gift of any amount to support the work of Focus on the Family. You can donate and get a copy of that book and find more articles and resources to help you live boldly for Christ when you click the link in the episode notes or give us a call, 800-A-Family. John, let me also add, to those who are non-believers, to those in the LGBT community, to those who are offended by scriptural truth, I get it.
My goal is to help you better understand the truth claims of Christ. When I pray for that community, I don't pray for their sexual orientation. I pray for their heart to be open to Jesus.
The reality is, human beings are all gnarled in this life. We all fall short. The Scripture is clear on that. We're all sinners, saved by grace, not by ourselves. And that's the message I want people to hear.
Well, that's a good place to land. And be sure to join us next time on this Focus broadcast. You'll hear some insight on helping develop your child's spiritual growth. The main thing, I think, is to help our kids develop a love relationship with the Lord, to teach them who God is, because then they can trust that God's going to fulfill that good purpose in their life. On behalf of Jim Daly and the entire team, thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ. Get a deduction and help families thrive for generations to come. Find out more about non-cash gifts. Just visit FocusPlannedGiving.com
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