Your church comes to you each week to fill their cup, but when the crowd leaves, who's filling yours? That's exactly what I'm here to do with my new podcast from Focus on the Family. It's called Pastor to Pastor with Dave Stone. I'm so excited to help you navigate the unique challenges that pastors face in their ministry journey, both personally and professionally.
So I invite you to listen and subscribe to Pastor to Pastor wherever you get your podcasts. The coldness in his tone that day, I knew that this was. Gonna be bad, and I knew that I needed to get away from him. And I had left my car keys back in his bedroom, and for some reason, I thought I needed to get my car keys, get into the front yard, and just get away. Welcome to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.
As today we hear a story of hurt and hope, and ultimately God's intervention and redemption.
Now, this is a more mature topic, so if you have young children in earshot, we recommend using earbuds or listen later through our app. You know, John, today's topic—it breaks my heart, and it should break everybody's heart when, particularly, young women are in an abusive relationship, and I'm thinking of. Your high school years, your teen years, and you know I've known even my son's friends that have suffered some of this, and so it is a silent thing. We don't talk enough about it. But today we want to equip parents to be alert, to understand, and to have those discussions to equip, particularly their daughters, about how to know when a relationship is abusive.
Because most of the time, this is all new, and you don't know you're this flower. And man, there are Mean people in this world, yeah. And our guest has been through what you're talking about, experiencing horrific abuse as a teen in a dating relationship, and we'll be sharing that with you today. Dee Dee Saeed is our guest. She's advised young adults about healthy dating relationships for many years now.
As a mentor, and as a mom, and she's turned her experience into a book called "It Doesn't Start with a Punch." My journey through an abusive teen dating relationship, Dee Dee. Welcome to Focus on the Family. Thank you so much. It's an honor to be here. Your name will be easy.
My sister is Dee Dee, so this is good. I'll keep thinking of her as I'm talking to you. Let's get into it. That was a serious kind of entry point, and some people are going, "What?" and maybe even concerned that should we be covering something like this in the open? But man, it is so critical for parents and for young.
People, both boys and girls, and teen boy and teen girls, can encounter abuse. Today, we want to concentrate on your story. Growing up, you describe your fascination with love and relationships. I'm sure. I mean, this is part of it, right?
You you are wanting to have that relationship that's Prince Charming, correct? Right. What were you feeling at the time? You know, I think it was just part of teenage years of growing up, and that was. One of the things to look forward to, turn it like turning 16 and driving a car was, and beginning to date, right.
So you meet this guy that you've called Brock in the book. I'm sure that's not his real name, but describe how you met him and who this young man was. How old was he?
So we were the same age. It was my junior year in high school when we met, and it was in the fall. And I was giving a few friends a ride home after school, and somebody else asked for a ride. And when I said yes, then his friend jumped in the car too. And and so as I'm driving and dropping people off, Brock is flirting with me, and I'm kind of flirting back.
And um and so when I dropped him off, he asked me for my phone number, and I was and up till this point, I really didn't know that a boy had been interested in me. My friends had gone out on dates, but I hadn't yet, and so I was pretty excited that somebody was showing interest and asked for my phone number. and And so then we started talking on the phone quite a bit. And after a few weeks, he asked me out on a date, and of course, I excitedly said yes. And you know, it was everything I hoped for.
He came to the front door when he picked me up and opened the car door, and we had a nice time at the restaurant over dinner. And he walked me back to the door when the date was over. and Yeah, in that regard, when when you're thinking back on this and writing this book, which is helpful because you talk about the signs and what to look for, but he was very polite. He was a gentleman all the way, and seemed like wow, this is really good, right? Right, right.
Yeah, no, it was everything that I had had hoped to date would be. How long did that last until you went? Uh oh. I'd say it lasted a few weeks. You know, we did things like going to a haunted house with my best friend.
We would hang out after school together sometimes with. My friends sometimes not, but it continued good. The first. Time that it and it was a very different sign than what you would expect. He called me one night on a school night before bed, and told me that he had flipped his dad's truck and totaled it, and it was the only family car, and that he was afraid what his dad was going to do with him.
And so would I stay on the phone with him, and so his dad wouldn't come and do anything. And you know, as a sixteen-year-old, it didn't cross my mind that all the parent has to do is walk in the room and say get off the phone, and he would. And instead, wanting to help my boy. Boyfriend, I pulled the covers over my head and you know kept talking to him. And as it grew later, I kept saying, "I think we can get off the phone.
Surely your dad's gone to bed by now." No, no, I still hear him up. We should stay on the phone. And it was three a.m. when we finally hung up the phone. Right?
Yeah. And was it true or false?
So when I went to school that day, he wasn't there, and so I was really worried about what had happened to him after we got off the phone. And I tried to call him midway through the day, and he didn't answer. And So my best friend and I drove up to his house after school. And when we turned the corner onto his street, his dad's truck was sitting in the driveway without a scratch on it. And so, you know, like I'm disbelief what was last night.
I'm humiliated because my friend's sitting next to me. And so he came out of the house laughing at me for being so gullible at the prank he'd pulled on me the night before. Right? I kept telling him that it wasn't funny and I didn't understand why he had lied. To me, yeah, and he just kept saying it was a joke.
Couldn't I take a joke? I did debate on breaking up with him, but I didn't know if it was something that you broke up over, right? And so again, you've never been in this territory, right? And you're very excited that someone's taken an interest in you.
Now you got to process. His difficulties, whatever you know, compels him to do these things. What were other things that, in the forefront, that began to happen that were equally troubling that you weren't. Really processing the way maybe you should have. You know, he started to put down my friends and my family, just making you know kind of jokes, but putting them down, and and I didn't know quite how to respond to that.
And then he started putting me down, saying things like I wasn't coordinated. No wonder I wasn't better on the tennis team. He tried to tell me that I wasn't smart, and when I countered with that I was taking the harder classes in school than he was. He said, "Well, that's book smart. You don't." Common sense, you're not going to survive in the real world.
So it was, you know, I would try to speak back to it, but he always had a rebuttal that made me question myself. Let me ask you: This is a delicate question, but I think an important one. What left you vulnerable? To that kind of manipulation. I mean, you knew who you were.
You know, I think it was two things. I think we're all a little confused of who we are at that age. You know, as much as we think we know, we're we're trying to fit in, and it's an ever changing landscape. But I also think that we're desensitized to sarcasm. You know, it rains in school hallways, and so when I was confronted with it, it wasn't really much different than what I'd heard.
Other people saying or in other situations, it didn't feel good, and I didn't like it. But I didn't recognize that it was bad. It wasn't unusual, right? Right. Except in the context of you know a guy that you think likes you, maybe would treat you differently.
But really, these are mechanisms of control. Correct. Right. That's what he's trying to do is gain the upper hand and manipulate you, etc. That relationship then moved into him isolating you.
Him following you. Describe how long into the relationship that was, and when he began to show jealousy and control in a much more forthright way.
So the first. Sign of physical abuse was pushing me in the hallway after school one day.
So I hadn't seen the jealousy yet. We were talking to a classmate after school one day, and we were debating on something kind of trivial, and wanting to look cool in front of his friend. I did a light-handed backslap on Brock's shoulder, and in response, he pushed me with both of his hands, and it was so hard that I fell backwards, slid on the floor, dropped on my books. I was mortified, and you know that time alarm bells went off in my head, but. I was.
I think I was in shock. I didn't know how to respond to that. You know, when you talk to your kids about dating, you know, here's how you respond to being hit isn't usually at the top of the list.
So I told myself that he wouldn't have done what I thought he did. That he wouldn't have done it in front of somebody else. That he was bigger than I was. He was about six foot, almost two hundred pounds. I'm five six and high school weighed about a hundred pounds.
So I just told myself he didn't contest. Right. Yeah. But I just said he didn't know my own strength. Or his own strength, so you rationalizing and denial, which is a big factor in staying in a relationship.
In fact, I think in the book you talked about.
Well, maybe it was my fault because I hit him on the shoulder, and that was his reaction. And I mean, even that—that's really. That looking inward first is such a good thing, but in this case, it can lower your receptors to reality, right? Yes, exactly. Because you look in first rather than saying, "Okay, that guy's unhealthy." Yes, yeah, yeah.
In that regard, Didi, you did seem to recognize there's something really odd going on in the book. You mentioned it felt like you were dating Dr. Jacklin, Mister Hyde. Yeah. So describe kind of that growing epiphany and those feelings.
Oh, this is not normal.
So, what Jim was talking about a minute ago, it was that there began to be rules, and I wouldn't know anything about these until I'd crossed a line. Like I would talk with a classmate, and then when Brock and I were hanging out after school, I would mention the conversation, and he'd get really upset that I had talked with this person. You know, it was either yelling or, or shouting, or you know, just very aggressive behavior with me, and and so I. I slowly grew into a shell of a person. You know, I would misstep, and there would be consequences for it.
And, but I never. Every time it was over, I just put it behind me and moved forward. And there was still a lot of good that was in the relationship. You know, we still went on dates. We went off school for lunch.
We still went on some double dates.
So there was lots of fun between us. But then there was these episodes that were, yeah, frightening and. And I just want to be.
Well, I would think almost, maybe even unconsciously, because it were he's coming out of some kind of woundedness, obviously. But like he knows the balance; he needs to do so many good things, so many right things. But he's trying to keep you close and push you away at the same time. Is that? Did it feel like that?
I just think I was lost, you know, just lost in the. Were your parents engaging this? Were they observing it? Were they concerned? Obviously, did they see things?
What did they see? Both my friends and my family saw things that they were concerned about. My friends noticed a change in my demeanor when there had been an episode with Brock, and so they would try to talk with me about that. But I already carried so much shame. I mean, you're not supposed to be hit, and so, or even talked to the way that I was, and so.
I thought something was wrong with me that this was happening, and so I carried shame and couldn't talk about it.
So when my friends or my family tried to talk with me about it, I just got very defensive and with my words pushed them away. You know, I I don't know what my parents saw initially, but I do know that they saw bruises over time. Wow, it was that often that he might hit you physically. Yes, yeah, and this is what I write about in the book. He bit me sometimes.
He would. We would be watching a movie or just sitting talking, and he would grab my arm and bite it hard enough to leave teeth marks on my arm, and say, "I just want to know what it's like to take a bite out of somebody." So it was more that I was always on this ever shifting landscape of uncertainty and fear. Yeah. And Didi, that physical aspect of manipulation and abuse kind of crescendoed. There was a rodeo story you told in the book.
Why don't you share that with us? Sure.
So by then, Brock was telling me the rules rather than misstepping and learning them. And he told me not to wear my overalls, which were cool back in the 1980s. They've come back again, but so he told me not to wear my overalls to the rodeo, which really surprised me. I mean, you were ranked. To the rodeo, not not overalls, but I knew that he thought that I looked cute, and that meant I wanted to look for my boyfriend.
Right, right. So I was I was wearing something I thought he would find me attractive in, and so we went to the rodeo, and then we left. And after it was over, we went back to his house, and we sat on the couch. And he said to me that the first thing I had done wrong was wearing the overalls, and the second thing I had done wrong was coming home with him. And I, the coldness in his tone.
That day, I knew that this was going to be bad, and I knew that I needed to get away from him. And I had left my car keys back in his bedroom, and for some reason, I thought I needed to get my car keys, get into the front yard, and just get away. And I don't know how I made it to his bedroom, but I did. And I remember feeling relief as I came around the corner. Only as soon as I rounded that corner, he was standing there in front of me, holding a rifle.
And I didn't see an option, and I remember the wall being behind my back, and just falling to the floor and crying, thinking that I was about to die. And he he started talking to me instead, and led me to the couch, and told me that you know I needed to listen to him, and and then he told me that because he thought that I was attractive in the overalls, he was afraid that somebody else at the rodeo was going to find me attractive, and that he just didn't want to lose me, and he wanted to protect me from other people, and so that was why he was reacting this way. Wow, that is a lot to carry as a teen girl. Yeah, it was, and it's crazy. Yes, yes.
And then something happened, and what was that change?
So early in the relationship, he was very sexually coercive with me to the point that I finally gave in to his pressure. And having grown up in the church, I only wanted to be with one person, and so that was why I tried to wait. But it was confusing, like everything I was. Seeing in the movies, it was you know sex was happening. I was hearing it in the school hallways.
He was telling me that if I loved him, I would have sex with him, and so I finally gave in, and we did start a sexual relationship. Did it come to a point when you were saying no? And he kept going.
So, no. Once I gave in, I was a pretty willing. I mean, to me, it just became part of our relationship. But the weekend of my nineteenth birthday, I was home from college. I had actually graduated high school, moved away to college.
And away from him, or still in touch with him? We were still dating. We were still dating, and so and I came home frequently on the weekends to see him. Stayed with my parents, but would date Brock. And so the weekend of my nineteenth birthday, I was home, and he had long since made it known that he didn't like my parents.
He didn't like being in the house with them. When he pulled up out front, I was expected to come out to the car. And this night, things ran long, and I of course didn't go out to the car, and he came. Inside and I was really nervous, but he was he was very cordial with everybody and pleasant, and so I relaxed. And once we were done with cake and ice cream, he and I got in the car and drove to a park, and walked around.
And he held my hand, and he was nice. And we spent some time there. And on the way home, we were driving home, and he pulled off on a dirt road that I didn't even know was there. And we started. I thought we were going to mess around, and we started to mess around.
And he pinned me down, and he raped. And it took me a very long time to say that that was rape because I'd been sexually active with him, and so I, I didn't think that it could be rape. It was probably 15 years in the help of a counselor that helped me see that it was. And I remember driving the rest of the way home feeling broken and another level of shame because there wasn't anything outward that you could tell what had just happened to me. And but it was the turning point in our relationship.
Yeah, I thought that would be the case. I mean, that might have been the rock bottom for you. Then it wasn't the act itself. A few weeks later, we were talking on the phone. I was back at school, and somehow that evening came up, and he ended up saying that it was punishment for not being ready on time, and that was shocking enough, but.
You know everything else up until this point, I had seen as a knee jerk reaction. I had done something wrong, and he had reacted to it. But this time, he'd been in my parents' house. We'd driven to the park. You know, he'd had all this time to change course, and he'd still done this terrible act on me.
And so it was intentional harm. And I I began to process that, and that he had a choice, and that this wasn't who I wanted to be with. What was that point where this became abuse? You knew was this it? Where you said, "Okay, this is abuse, and I've got to get out of this." I don't think that I knew it was abuse until many years later, after it was all broken off.
Right, right. I didn't know to call it that for a long time. How did it break up? How did you come to a point where you said, "Okay, this is totally unacceptable," or however you processed? What words did you use in your own mind to say?
You know, it was it was that phone call started it, but that was a lot to process and grapple, especially by myself. And I remember giving myself thirty days to decide what I wanted to do. And at the end of that thirty days, I was solid, and I knew that I didn't want to be with him anymore. And I found the courage and the strength to say, "This is over." Where was God in the midst of all this, in your relationship with Him, and how were you processing spiritually what you were experiencing emotionally and physically? God is what saved me in that relationship.
I had withdrawn from every activity except for student council. I had broken off every friendship I had. I was completely isolated in this relationship with Brock. My parents were trying to help me, but it felt like I was in trouble with them. You know, Brock was telling me that he loved me, but obviously I was always in trouble and misstepping there, and so love didn't feel like love is supposed.
Feel, but I knew God loved me unconditionally. Let's you went through that quickly, and I appreciate that. But with the parents, that their questioning, their curiosity about how you were doing, felt not like love, but like an inquisition. Yes, that's really critical for us as parents to understand that.
So, what would have been the better way? A possible way that they could have communicated with you that would have drawn you closer to them and closer to reality. Yeah, I think it's hard. I mean, as a parent today, it would be very hard for me because I just want my child out of that relationship. But they're broken to a point that we don't understand.
I didn't talk about this for twenty years, and the first time I told my parents about it, I had such a physical reaction to the emotional hurt that my whole body shook.
So, you know, for parents to understand that we can't go straight into what's going on, but to reassure and love them, and say I care about you, and and as they get comfortable, say I want to talk with you about something, and I just Reiterating that you care about them, and in reality, unless that. Teen or adult child is willing to share. The parent can't pry that open, right?
So you have to lay some groundwork, is what you're saying. Yes, get the trust built up because you're vulnerable, right? Yeah, and feel embarrassed, like you said many times. You don't want to say these things because you're hearing in your head. I'm sure.
Why didn't you know better? Right. Right. Yes. Yes.
That's exactly. I mean, that's a crusher. I think that's one of the most important lessons out of this for us as parents is how to talk, particularly again with your teen girls. About pressures that they might be feeling. Again, this is all new, so they don't know the rules of the game, like you were suggesting.
And you certainly don't want that that person to set the rules.
So you've got to keep that relationship up with your teen girls before they ever get into this spot, so that there's open communication. I would say even discussing with them what it should look like. This is what a healthy relationship should look like in a non Charlie Brown want want want kind of lecture, right? Yeah. So you've got to find that ability to do that as a dad, as a mom, as a mom and a dad, right?
Right. Absolutely. And try to connect with them, Dee Dee. As you were raising your own children, I can only imagine that response was to overprotect, to overengage, to oversay what you might be feeling because of your experience. What happened?
For your own parenting journey, in that regard. You know, I was trying to have conversations with my kids from an early age about friendships and what they were like.
So often we say, "Well, is that person nice?" But you know, asking more open-ended questions of what is that person like, how do they treat you, was where I went. And then my poor kids—I sat next to them in every movie that we watched and said, "You don't fall in love in two weeks," and you know, just trying to show what was wrong in the movies that they were watching. How that came out? Yes, you mentioned it was years later. Just describe that briefly, like how, I guess why, and then what happened over those twenty years that you were quiet, you weren't saying anything, and you were trying to wrestle through what happened to me.
You know, I don't even know that I was wrestling with it most of the time. When I ended it, I just wanted it behind me. I was mad at everything I had given up in the three years that we dated, and I just wanted to move forward with my life. But twenty years later, I had a concussion and realized that the only thing we can count on in life is God, and I was immediately flooded with shame and guilt from that high school relationship, and I knew I needed. To dig in and heal from that, I want to expand quickly on that.
Right at the end, but there may be adults listening. You know, forty something, fifty something, sixty something that have never had that reconciliation and all they have felt is shame. I made a bad decision. I stayed in that relationship. I allowed him to do that to me.
All those words. Right. How did God? Wrap you up and say no, my daughter. I love you.
I'm sorry this happened. How did you feel reconciled with all of those? What you would say to yourself were poor decisions. You know, it was a few ways. I got involved with a counselor, Christian counselor.
I journaled a lot. It was probably a six month process of a lot of prayer, reading the Bible. And two things: one, in a Sunday school class, the DVD that we were listening to, a woman was recounting another experience, and she said that she heard God tell her this didn't change who she was; that she was the same person. It was something that happened to her, and that He still loved her. And that was like it was being spoken to me.
And then on a bike ride one day, I was praying and just asking how I could remove this, and God said, "As far as you know, the Bible verses." As far as the east is from the west, so have I removed your sins. And I thought, if God has forgiven me that much, I need to be able to let go of this. Whew! What a moment of being set free. Yes, and that's what the Christian message is all about.
You know that idea that our sins are washed away because Jesus paid the price for us, right? Yes, that's the whole. That's why we call it the good news. We don't earn our way into heaven. God has done that already, and yet we have consequences on this.
Earth and I'm so sorry that you had to go through that. I'm grateful that you were bold enough, brave enough, courageous enough to write this in a book. And I think, John, the key here is for parents. Again, if you knew your daughter was going to be abused emotionally, physically, both, wouldn't you do everything you could do to try to prevent that? That's why I think we have energy to get your message out.
D is you can do something to engage your child to talk about these. Appropriately, we also have caring Christian counselors here. Focus on the family. You can call with that question. You know, my daughter.
This is the situation. What do you think I should do? And they'll provide some advice. They'll give you resources. I'm sure Didi's book will be one of them.
Now, in the great treasure trove of resources from Focus on the Family, and I know this is a super super difficult issue. But if we, the church, do not talk about it, who will? They win. They being Evil, right?
So engage it. Have that conversation with your twelve, thirteen-year-old daughter. And we know oftentimes the shoe can be on the other foot too.
So your son should know first how to treat women and girls, and then secondly, if they're being abused somehow, address that too.
So this is a great resource, Didi. Thank you for being with us. Yeah, thank you so much. We'll encourage you to get in touch with us to connect with the counselor if you need some steps forward. Our parenting site has lots of great resources for you as a mom or dad.
But our counseling team donors allow us to provide a phone consultation with you. It's free of charge, and you can connect with them through a phone call or look for the link in the show notes. And if you're in a spot to donate to the ministry, we'd appreciate that so much—either a monthly pledge or a one-time gift of any amount. When you contribute to the work of Focus on the Family and support this show, we'll say thanks by sending a copy of Dee Dee's book to you.
Well, plan to join us next time. It'll be a great show as we talk with CBS Sports host James Brown about his faith. I don't go around trying to, and I said this earlier. To beat people over the head with the Bible, but we are to share the love of Christ, lovingly, truthfully, and winsomely. Thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.
I'm John Fuller, inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ. Your church comes to you each week to fill their cup. But when the crowd leaves, who's filling yours? That's exactly what I'm here to do with my new podcast from Focus on the Family. It's called Pastor to Pastor with Dave Stone.
I'm so excited to help you navigate the unique challenges that pastors face in their ministry journey, both personally and professionally.
So I invite you to listen and subscribe to Pastor to Pastor wherever you get your podcasts.
