Your church comes to you each week to fill their cup, but when the crowd leaves, who's filling yours? That's exactly what I'm here to do with my new podcast from Focus on the Family. It's called Pastor to Pastor with Dave Stone. I'm so excited to help you navigate the unique challenges that pastors face in their ministry journey, both personally and professionally.
So I invite you to listen and subscribe to Pastor to Pastor wherever you get your podcasts. You do not put a kid who's got a broken arm. Let's say they're struggling with anxiety or something already. You do not put them in a canoe to swim upstream with one paddle. They need other people on the boat.
To help them move that boat along the upstream of our culture today. That's counselor and mom Michelle Needert, and she's back with us today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller, and thanks for joining us. Yeah, John, this is such an important topic. How do we strengthen our children, particularly our girls?
In this book, Strong and Secure, and Michelle's done a great job raising the right issues for us as parents to be, kind of over the target on right a girl's identity, her sense of self worth, her Relationship with Christ, all kind of the foundations, so that the other things culture will throw at them can be managed in those contexts. And if you didn't listen to the broadcast last time, get the app. That's the best way to do it. You have access to everything that we do, both the podcast and the broadcast. If you do that, is just focus on the family broadcast app, and you can find that in your app store.
But I'm looking forward to today. We're going to continue the. Discussion with Michelle and talk more about securing your daughter's spiritual well-being, emotional well-being, and physical well-being. Yeah, I really liked how she framed it in terms of helping our kids grab on to the father heart of God, and He's our source.
Now, you mentioned the book Jim, and we have it. It's called Strong and Secure: One Hundred Devotions for Young Women. And as a listener, you can learn more about Michelle and this devotional on our website. Michelle, welcome. Thanks.
It's good to have you with us again to continue this discussion. You know, I feel like my whole parenting experience is just kind of in my brain things I need to remember to do. Kind of a creation of a list, I guess, is how I would express it. Make sure we're reading the Word together, and we did that when the boys were younger more often.
Now it's in their twenties. I'm sending them more Scripture every few days. Hey, this caught my attention. Here's why. Thought it might apply to you, so you've got to find ways to keep bringing the word in front of your your young people, whatever age, high school or college.
I think. What do you do to try to keep that connection spiritually, especially with your daughter at a distance? She's in college, but your son's still at home. Yeah. Yeah, I think it is.
Some the other day, Nolan came in and he was just overwhelmed. He had woken up late, and he needs uniform shorts, and we don't know what happened to him, but they weren't in the house. And gym bag, gym bag. And so we do think maybe the gym bag. He runs track right now, and so but he just woke up in a mood now.
And this is what I want to tell parents. This is why you stay grounded. While your kids are having that mood, and it was a little tough. I was up that morning, and by the grace of God, I had already listened to some scripture. And so I said to him, as he was in my room, kind of frantically looking, I said, "I got you.
You need to go take your shower, but before you do, I just said, Alexa, open the Bible app and read us the Word of the Day." And we just listened to that together. And he was like, "Mom, how did you know that was going to fit?" And I said, "Well, I happened to hear it a couple minutes ago, so I had already done that." That that. But then he went up and took a shower. We did not find the shorts, so we had to get to school early to borrow some out of Lost and Found. Borrow, I use lightly.
And so we we got there, and on the way there, he said, "Mom, thank you for staying so calm when I was so upset." So he noticed. He noticed that I was a spiritual extension cord of God's peace to him in the midst of that difficult time, and he expressed some gratitude, which is rare. That doesn't happen all the time. But I will tell you, I think that is so important. And then I looked at him and I said, "Now I know I need to pray.
You find shorts when you get inside there. But how else can I pray for you today?" And he's like, "I got a test. I think I'm ready, but I got a test." And I'm like, "Okay, thanks." And so I think. Especially with my daughter far away, I ask her a lot, "How can I pray for her?" Sometimes I will notice things, and I will, you know, you got to be careful with that, so you don't sound like you're preaching at them or correcting them, because kids take advice as criticism in this when they're in college, and I think it's really important that we be aware of that.
So I think we continue to share God's word. If if God lays a scripture on your heart, I love especially they like the memes.
So they like you to find the photo with the scripture and share it with them, and so I do that a lot with them as well. I say a lot in the office to people who are not believers that hope deferred will make the heart sick. In fact, that's how kids a lot of times, teenage girls, end up depressed. Is they're struggling with some anxiety or some external pressure, and then they all of a sudden think they can fix it, and they try to fix it, and then they can't fix it. They try to get their friends to help them fix it, and then they're Hope gets deferred, and it makes their hearts sick, and they end up sometimes even clinically depressed because of it.
So I think we can weave that scripture in, but if we're going to do that, we as parents have to be in that word, knowing that word, letting it come. I really believe it's meant to breathe life in and through us. I do have some parents who are reading this devotional themselves. I had a mom ask me, "How could I use this devotional? Because I don't think my daughter will read it when I give it." In college, I said, "What if you looked through it?
Because I'm, I'm writing about the difficulties teens are facing and young adults that we treat in our counseling center all the time. What if it just gave you words to say and questions to ask?" And she came back to me and said, "I've had the best conversations with my daughter. I didn't realize one of her friends was going through a bad breakup and how much a bad boyfriend can affect you. And so she learned some of the topics that they're living through better." Yeah, especially when it's your first. Your first is always difficult.
Yeah, let me take us back to that reaction when your son was kind of out of sorts, because and I think it's really important because the other response I'd like to describe it and then have you respond to it, because in that environment you as the parent can be sucked in, and you now are anxious about the poor planning that you're. Teen has displayed, and it's pushing your buttons. Oh, it is! Like not only that, like I didn't train him well enough. He's disorganized.
What's wrong with him? Why can't he keep up with the stuff? That's the wrong response in a crisis moment for a parent to give, even though it's running through our heads. Right. That's the hook.
How do you back out of that frenzy as the parent and not fall for the bait? And I'm not saying your teen is baiting you per se, but. In a frenzy, and you have to be the adult in the room, like you did. Yeah. But if you are more easily prone as a parent to get into the fray emotionally and go, "Well, why didn't you plan?
You know, I'm busy. I've got all this going on today. I don't have time to look for your shorts. That's your job, not my job." And this ends up in conflict rather than shalom. You're right, and that's probably what would have happened.
I had two clients cancel that. Morning by the grace of God, so I wasn't getting ready for work like I normally am at the same time he's getting ready for school.
So on a typical day, I'd be like, "Nolan, I don't have time for this. I've got to get my own makeup on and get in the car and stuff like that." So there, I think that's reality. I think though that we want to try as much as we can to. I don't think it's their bait. I think it's the bait of the enemy.
I would agree, right? Causing, trying to cause destruction in our lives. And let me say this: there are days that that would have been more my response. And you know what you do then? And let me say this, guys: is I'm dealing with kids who hear other kids talk about their parents, and they're coming back with parental resentments and complaints.
If you want to prevent that, then you tell them you it was a bad day and you're sorry. You both had a bad day, and you commiserate together, and you apologize for the fact that you didn't do any better job than them of regulating your own emotions. But I think the thing that I think about more than the list, because I know I'm a list person too, I am learning to get out of the list, and this is part of dialectical behavioral therapy and mindfulness, and that is being present. It grounds people, and I am learning that in the midst of the frenzy. The shorts.
What's more important is my presence than how we look to the school, how we look, how he looks in the midst of this, and that's the other thing I think I've really learned. I have learned that.
So what if you have to pay for an ID badge? It's not the end of the world.
Sometimes we, as parents, when our kids are showing their character weaknesses, we global just like we do in our marriages. We globalize those weaknesses and we awfulize them. Those are terms for cognitive distortions, and we make them bigger deals than they really are. I think we approach our kids what I see in Jesus' life. With his messy disciples, and they are messier than our kids, I think.
When I really get in and read those gospels. He continuously extends compassion, accountability, but compassion. And you know what? I've my mom had to run my tennis skirt up to school. You know, when I was a kid, I relate to that.
I had those messy moments. I can't find my keys some morning, and so I think sometimes we even have a greater intolerance for the things we see in our kids that are inside us as weaknesses. We wish we could correct that, and that is God's job. That is not our job to do. It is God's job.
To see if he can break that generationally in the next generation, and he does that by the spirit being stronger in them, not by us working harder at making sure the shorts are there. You know, another example that you had about presence, and we touched a little bit on this last time, but to explore it a little bit more because it's so critical, because so much connection is made in this idea of presence, because that's where there's a calming effect for your child, which is a good thing, but you would. Tuck your son in at night. I think maybe your daughter too. And in this case, tickle his back.
I think was no, no, no, not exactly.
Okay, so here's the thing: we are so good with the "God, I feel sad" generation, the little preschoolers. We tuck our kids in, we wind them down at night. But here's why we're seeing anxiety in ten year olds: because they go to soccer practice and they do all this stuff, and we're rolling them into bed to just try to get them to sleep, and we're tired too. And then they lay in that bed, and all the anxious thoughts have time to crowd in. And so, I think it's really important for us as parents, as they get older, to still take that moment.
And what I have done is, and this is part of somatic healing therapy. I didn't even know that because that didn't exist when I started this. I had a friend who was a massage therapist, and she taught me the importance of healing touch and relaxing touch.
So I have rubbed my Kids' back, just real gently, not full on muscles. But at times I have, and here's why.
Sometimes I will touch my kids' back, and let me tell you a great example of this that ended up being very spiritual moment for us. One night, my so when your kids get past the age of elementary school and you're tucking them in, sometimes they have to come tuck you in because you're in bed before them. When they get to this high school age and college age, especially when she was home from college, I could not. They she's so outlast me.
Now, so then, but I said to her, "When you go to bed, come say good night to me." You know, still. And so she came in one night, you know, she was in high school, and I was rubbing her back, and I'm like, "Oh my goodness, your neck is like a knot." And she said to me, "I'm so stressed. I I have this do this do this do." And okay, we talked about the list, right? My first thought was, "Yeah." And I watched you watch a show, drink your coffee, go with your friend. You know, she's mobile by then.
She had time to do it, but that is not the time to bring that up. In that moment, when your kid is about to go upstairs and try to get the rest of it done, I said, "Can I pray for you?" Can I just pray that God would give you focus and make it faster, and just have the grace to help you out like I need when I'm under a book deadline? If I'm honest, you know, is that when you relate to that? And so I prayed over her. I looked at my email one last time before I went to bed, and an email popped in from one of the teachers and said, "I don't know why, but I'm going to postpone this test.
I just have a bad feeling about it. I don't think you guys are going to be ready." And I thought, "Oh my gosh, God answered our prayers right." I mean, we got to experience God. In the moment, and she came popping downstairs real quick and goes, "Mom, did you see it?" And I was like, "Isn't that amazing? We got to experience God together in that moment." So I think there's lots of things we can do as parents just to really—it's called attunement in the psychological world, and what it means is fully. Paying attention, and we do this as therapists not only to what somebody's saying, but all the nonverbal cues, because we know ninety-three percent of everything that's communicated is nonverbal.
I think there's a lot of things like that that we as parents can work on that breed real strong connection with our kids. I think it's something for us to become aware of ourselves. I think it's good for us to learn to attune to our own bodies and help ask God to make us aware of that. I ask God to make me aware of things that the unseen doesn't. Scripture talk about that to focus on the unseen.
So I want to see in my kids' lives the unseen that they're not talking to me about through their bodies, and then through the spirit, because there are spiritual battles which you referenced earlier in the last episode, Jim, that our kids are battling. That I want to participate in the warfare of in their lives. That's Michelle Needert, and she's our guest today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, covering some of the principles in her excellent book, Strong and Secure: 100 Devotions for Young Women. This really is a great tool for you to use, as she indicated earlier. Even if your child isn't going to use it with you, but go through this book with your child, strengthen those bonds, and help them rely more on the Lord.
Get a copy of the book from us. The link is in the show notes. Or call one eight hundred the letter A in the word family. You know, Michelle, one of the things that we can fail our children with is our inability to listen intently, and you speak about that very expressly. I think because we're moving fast, it's not a guilt statement.
It's just. In my head, in my list, remember to slow down and really listen. Which, for me, as an extrovert, I'm assuming that might be true for you. It's one of the hardest things for us to get a hold of because we want to keep moving, and really to be still so we can hear the other person. In this case, our children.
So, listening to the body—that's great. Observing those things, but then actually listening to what they say rather than doing the lecture. It's really Hard because we've done life, and you know we were seventeen, we were twenty-five. We kind of know the game. We know what's going on.
We know what's best for you, but how do you listen and bite your tongue not to just spew advice? Which you know sometimes advice is good, but it's a different role as your kids get older, even in teen years.
So how how do you do that? How do you listen intently?
So I think the first thing you do is you listen with your eyes, and that gets back to that pivot we talked about in the episode with the screens.
So we need to put our eyes on them, and some of us are doers, and we're busy doing. And I think one thing we need to accept is sometimes our kids are going to tell stuff. We might even be, gosh, can I say it a little bored as we're listening, and so I think, but we need to accept that and do that well. And here's what I think we do next. You know, in this.
Stage of life, this older teen, young adult stage, we are no longer teachers; we are coaches, and coaches ask great questions.
So, if I were to tell a parent, "How do you become equipped in this stage?" more than anything is don't learn the scripture. Ask them what scripture they would use in this situation. Don't give them advice. Ask them what they think they might consider doing, and so I think you listen. And then you question not with like an intent to dissect, but I think you question with curiosity, and I and it's not an interrogation thing.
It's more of a like I'm unwrapping a present, and you're the present, and I want to get to know all the details of my present. And so when I have a teenager in my office, that's what it's like. But I think I take that same skill and I apply it to my kids. This is A gift from God that's unfolding before my very eyes and developing. And young adulthood—they're not done.
You know, my eighteen-year-old's got six years left of brain development, or up to eight. That brain's only a third of the way done.
So I am curious about what's still developing there. And so I think asking the questions: She has a boyfriend. How's it going? What's been good lately? What's been hard lately?
With that relationship, and I think when we ask, and then sometimes we just say, "I'm glad you shared that with me. That's something I can pray about." Instead of coming back with, "Well, let me, you know, I'm an expert, right, in relationships. I mean, I've been trained by John Townsend and Henry Cloud on boundaries. I tell you what's healthy and what's toxic and what's narcissistic." And and one time I did say to her, I said, "Sometimes." I want to make sure that, and this is where how I think you do it. You do it where you're showing them that you're for them, when you do give the advice.
And I wonder a lot. I said I'm wondering if he is balancing his own life with your life. He just seems to be around a lot.
Now, what I really said is that relationship seems to be getting awfully close, right? But I did it in such a way it sounded like a question. I didn't make an observation or a judgment. And she said to me, "I love it." She said, "You know, I've been thinking about that too, Mom. I think I probably need to talk to him a little bit about that.
I felt a little bit about that, and I'm glad you noticed it.
Some other people have noticed it. I think it's hard because I want to feel connected, and you know, she sometimes hasn't." And we're navigating hard things with our kids. A lot of parents I know who are listening to this, you're so jealous because you wish your kid would talk to you like this, right? And and I've read a lot of books like How to Listen So Your Teen Will Talk and and Talk So Your Teen Will Listen. I think I think there's a lot of things we can pick up in skills with that ourselves as parents.
But I think the biggest thing is set your agenda aside. And try to learn more about theirs. Yeah, that's good. That's really good. You know, right at the end here, we need to, I think, emphasize this idea of identity because it's so crucial, especially again to our daughters and strong and secure.
You've inclined it to the daughters in our families. Yes, I think it's one of the reasons that so many kids coming from Christian homes go off to college and kind of lose it. Yeah, because they've been under. You know, good guidelines, solid parenting parameters, those kinds of things.
Now, all of a sudden, they've been taught the do-nots, but they don't understand why. And they go into this college environment, and drinking is available, and partying is available, and other things are available.
So, their ability to discern is not as strong as it could have been.
So, in that context, wrapped in identity, how do we get? Our daughters in the best position possible, right here at the end. This is the million-dollar question. Yeah, here we go to survive that environment, not just survive, but to thrive as a believer in Christ and to do well.
Okay, so first of all, I think it's more about the dos than the do-nots, and we focused on that. I think it's also—I changed my mind about this. I didn't want my kids to date in high school, but then I realized I wanted them to have their first breakup under my roof.
So we started loosening the parameters. In the last couple years, my parents, when I asked them their biggest parenting mistake with me, they but told me like when I was a young therapist, I asked them this that they thought you hold on and then you drop them off. And actually, my mom said we should let. We did a better job with your brothers and sisters. We you fought so hard against our grip because we didn't let one finger go every year until you were ready to go.
That's a good.
So I think that's a yeah. My parents were wise people and learned from their mistakes. I think as they went along, and so I think that's part of it. I think though this identity piece is formulated partially with what we can do. But I will tell you this, and we didn't quite get to this.
I read Bound by Honor as a 22 year old therapist, and I took that to heart—the value of a mentor. Because I am a product of the mentors of the kingdom, of the church through high school and college, and so I hired a vocal coach for my daughter. That I didn't really care how good her voice turned out. This was a 20 something year old woman of God who was way cooler than I was, who spoke. Truth in my daughter's life, and would share things.
She, my daughter, would share things with her. She wasn't sharing with me, and so I think if you want to line this up well, identity's got to come from a lot of different sources. And I think it's got to come from the youth leaders. I think sometimes it comes from Christian coaches and other believers in their lives. I think it also comes from making sure they have.
And this was something I really prayed hard about: is that when she, her roommate, is a pastor's daughter. And a dedicated believer, and and you know what? They did not pick each other that way. They picked each other because they loved thrifting, coffee, and Jesus. And Jesus was third on that list as they looked.
And neither was was a cheerleader. And no offense to those who are cheerleaders. I was Miss Peppy of the year, but that's not my daughter's things.
So she did not. She probably was done living with me. And that's what I think. Especially if your kids are not going off to a Christian university, how are they going to find the other believers in their school?
So that let me tell you what you don't do with a kid, and and I think this is getting harder and harder in our culture today. You do not put a kid who's got a broken arm. Let's say they're struggling with anxiety or something already. You do not put them in a canoe to swim upstream with one paddle. They need other people on the boat to help them move that boat along the upstream of our culture today.
It takes a whole rowing crew, especially if maybe your kid's got both arms. It still takes that, and that is, I think, a huge part of this. Is what campus ministry are they going to be involved in? Where are they going to plug in so that they can swim that stream? And here's the other thing.
That we have to do. We can't own their behavioral choices for them when they're younger. I think we start letting them fail early while they're under our roofs, so they're not so far away when disaster hits. And so I would tell any parent who's saying, "No, you're not going to the dance in that skirt," let her wear the skirt and learn the lesson.
Sometimes it's hard. I asked her to go up and pray one time and let God handle it with her. This idea that Lynn and I have of the father heart of God, and That's what I told her when she left to go to school. I'm gonna get. You know, I said I'm leaving, but he's not.
He's always going to be with you, and he is going to carry you through this. And that's why we wrote this book because some girl's mom didn't say that to her, and we want these young women in college to know that they are not alone. That's a lie. They may feel alone, but they have a heavenly Father who's with them, and there is community out there. Maybe it's going to take six Bible studies to find the right one and three churches, you know, but It's there for these girls, and they may get hurt sometimes.
But he's going to help them heal from the hurt, and he's going to make them wiser, and they'll be more protected the next time. And maybe they're like her, and the bank account is low, and he's going to provide. and And we want them to begin to develop that strength and that resilience that can only come. It won't. No parent can give that to them.
Only their heavenly Father can. Yeah. Well, I think you get the passion. From Michelle, Michelle, thanks for those heart tears, yeah, and the mama tears that you have there. And I think you can see she is here for you, and she's written this down in a great resource, strong and secure.
You can get a copy just by calling us, getting in touch with us, and saying I'd like to get a copy of Michelle's book. If you can make a gift of any amount monthly, one time doesn't matter, we'll send the book as our way of saying thank you for being part of the ministry and being able to reach back to moms that. Need this kind of help, so let me say in advance thank you for helping us. And also check out our free age and stage e newsletter, which is custom designed for you to get information to help you along in your parenting journey for whatever age your child is at, toddler to teen. That age and stage e newsletter is free, and you can sign up on our website.
Also, John, let me read this testimony that we received. Michelle, this will go right to your heart. This. Is a woman named Anne from Nebraska. She says, as a stay-at-home mom of three teenagers, this is right up your alley.
I listen almost daily to your broadcast. The variety of your shows provides guidance and encouragement to me as a mom and wife, but also as a Christian. I often find myself sharing episodes with friends and family. Which, by the way, as an aside, that is a great way to help us expand to new listeners. Send this to your friends that are struggling.
In this space, she went on to say, "God is really working through this ministry. You are in our prayers, and we are grateful for that.
So, you're going to touch Anne and many of the Anne moms out there with the message you shared with us.
So, thank you, Michelle, for being with us. Thanks for having me, and thank you for listening and donating to the ministry here of Focus on the Family. Get your copy of Michelle's devotional book. It's so good, strong, and secure." Just stop by our website, and we've got the links in the show notes. And coming up tomorrow, Pastor Gary Thomas will identify and dismantle the lies that can keep you stuck in life.
If you don't have this passion for this church, if you have a self-centered salvation, you don't really know what the Christian life is like. You don't have the passion for Jesus that will fill your heart. On behalf of the team, thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller, inviting you back next time as we once more help you and your family thrive in Christ. Your church comes to you each week to fill their cup, but when the crowd leaves, who's filling yours?
That's exactly what I'm here to do with my new podcast from Focus on the Family. It's called Pastor to Pastor with Dave Stone. I'm so excited to help you navigate the unique challenges that pastors face in their ministry journey, both personally and professionally.
So I invite you to listen and subscribe to Pastor to Pastor wherever you get your podcasts.
