Next year marks 50 years of ministry for Focus on the Family, encouraging families and helping them thrive in Christ every day. How has God used Focus on the Family to strengthen your marriage, guide you in your parenting, restore a relationship, or bring hope in a difficult season? We want to hear your story. Call now and share how Focus on the Family has made an impact in your life. You'll find the details and the link in the show notes.
Number one, you're not a perfect parent. What? And your child is not a perfect child. And your child does not need a perfect parent. your child has a perfect savior.
And that's what your child needs. What your child needs is for you to be a faithful Christian. And that's what's important for us to understand. That's a big statement. Yeah, and so I think sometimes we overcomplicate what we're doing.
What we're really doing is we're. growing in Christ's likeness before our children. That's Juan Sanchez, and he and his wife Janine are with us today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. Thanks for joining us. I'm John Fuller.
You know, John, parenting doesn't come with a manual. Were you scared to death? I remember when Trent, my son, was born, my first son, and they handed him to me? It freaked me out. It was like, What do I do now?
There was nothing that came with it. You know, it was like, you know, what a blessed son you have. And I was like, yeah, I hope I don't break all my today. We're going to talk to our guests about the ins and outs of parenting and getting on the same page and what happens when you don't, and a lot of great tips. And reaching your child's heart is a real critical component of the conversation today.
In fact, the book title is Reaching Your Child's Heart, and the authors are Juan and Janine Sanchez. And we're so glad to have them. Juan is senior pastor of High Point Baptist Church in Austin, Texas. And Janine teaches English and writing to children and helps women understand how to apply God's word to everyday life. They've got five adult daughters.
Bless you. And that is amazing. Growing number of grandchildren. That is awesome. Welcome to the program.
Thank you. It's a joy to be here. Here's the question: What have you learned raising five girls? I'll ask both of you. Wow.
So much. I think one of the big things is that formulaic parenting just doesn't work. Yeah. You know, the A plus B equals C. And if you do this, then your children are going to turn out this way.
And the Lord and his kind providence did not allow that in our lives. And what a mercy. Yeah. Really. Gene and I walking through a grocery store when we were first married, no kids, and we'd see a child out of control.
And we would say, you know, when we have children, our child will never act like that. That's right. How many of us say that? Oh, yeah.
Well, my child was there. My child was that child. Oh, yeah.
Growing up. That's the funny thing. But Juan, you did military. Yep. Did you come into the marriage and into the parenting role as dad, as that guy?
Yeah, I mean, I was Captain Bon Trapp without the whistle. Yes, sir. Music is your story. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, but.
What's interesting is, you know, kind of like you mentioned, I didn't know what was going on, and I had a warped understanding of parenting. I thought, I read the theology books, you deal with the kids, and then once they are old enough to talk and potty train and all that, then I'll kind of jump in there. And so, when we had our first daughter, very surprisingly, because we were going to wait two years, get to know each other. We had a plan, we had a plan, and six months into our marriage. Pregnant.
And so we didn't know what was going on. And so we were making things up as we were making things up as we go along. She didn't sleep. Through the night consistently till she was four years old. And I told Jeannie, we can't keep doing this.
And so, yeah, there was a lot of. Learning the hard way. Yeah. Juan, you said when your firstborn daughter turned six, it was kind of a change of the game. What happened when she was six that changed it?
One of the things I would say is, like Janine mentioned, she knows she is not the Holy Spirit. And so she wasn't critical, she wasn't nagging, but she prayed for me for six years. And then one day she came to me and she said, Hey, there's this parenting conference happening not far from us. Would you be willing to go? And so I said yes.
And again, my thinking was, I'm in ministry, I have to pour myself into this. And the speaker. Spoke my language, which is biblical and theological. And he helped me understand from scripture what is God's design. For the family?
What is God's design for the husband and the wife? And what is my place in all of this? And I realize. Oh. My place is to be the leader.
I'm supposed to be the spiritual leader, and I'm supposed to, in the way that Jesus loved the church with a sacrificial servant and sanctifying kind of love, I'm supposed to be reproducing that culture and that environment in my home, leading my wife in that way, but also leading my children.
So we came back, and I began reading and thinking about that, you know, very. Convicted, and it was amazing to me how our home I would call it was upside down, where Janine was leading us in the parenting, the discipleship, the discipline. And Within a matter of time, it seemed fairly quickly, she began to come to me. and ask questions about Discipleship and parenting and discipline. And we came to it as a team.
And what we've discovered is that there are three pillars to faithful parenting. And the first one is. Godly parental example. We lead by example. You know, just as elders are supposed to lead not under compulsion but by example, we are displaying to our children who God is, His love, His authority.
But secondly, biblical instruction is the foundation, and then corrective discipline. And what we found is those three pillars are given to us in scripture for us to be able to model for our children. What the Christian life is like for us to teach them who God is and what he requires of them. And then that corrective discipline that God Himself uses on us. And it's been amazing how it not only transformed our parenting, but actually transformed our marriage.
And it's actually not that complicated. Nope. But you have to get focused on it and understand what the inputs need to be for those predictive outcomes.
Well, and I think too, like I was reading all the parenting books, trying to gather all of the information that I could. And then Juan would come home and ask me. We'd talk about what to do. And that just switched. And he took ownership of that information.
And now he was reading and he was formulating what is the best plan for our family, the best plan to handle these types of situations. And that can be clunky. At first, right, especially with a kind of a strong girl, I've been doing this for six years, right? And then having to change that leadership over to him. But it was such a great idea.
It's probably a relief, too, to have more of a partner in that regard, you know, that you're in this with me. A lot of wives, I think, are probably going, oh, I only wish, but let's get you a copy of the book. That would be a good place to start. I want to pray and pray. And to really, really pray.
I think sometimes we think of that as a last resort. And that really needs to be our go-to because the Lord was going to do a better job with Juan than I was going to do any day. I would say, could you repeat that? But I think we got it. I mean, that's so true.
And that's true for both spouses. You know, husbands want change in their wife, and the wife wants change in the husband. And you can only work on you. Let me ask you, what does healthy, dedicated discipleship look like in a normal, busy week for a family? I mean, this is the real stuff, right?
Everybody's moving different directions. You've had five girls. I mean, dinner, getting things ready. I can't imagine the bathroom difficulties. It's my time in the bathroom.
Oh, absolutely. That's discipleship right now, isn't it? At that moment, we chose to capitalize on things that we could count on that we were doing together anyway. And so mealtime is such an important time in the life of your kids when they're young, teaching them just how to sit, how to have nice table manners as they grow, to consider one another, how to be kind to a host and hostess. And even in the Teenage years.
That's where you're going to have conversations. And so God was so kind to help us realize that we have those dedicated times. Use those times to be in the Word, to think about issues of the day that we could point the kids to Christ. Have those conversations that can mold them. Once again, it's just another opportunity to point them to God's Word.
And that's where Juan was able to be at different seasons. It was in the morning. In other seasons, it was during the evening where we were tried to be as consistent as a schedule would allow to have time in the Word. We were in the car often, and we also utilized that time to listen to Adventures in Odyssey.
So many different things that could teach the kids and help with some of those gaps that we can't think about. Think Deuteronomy 6. You know, teach when you wake up, when you like. Down, when you walk by the road, it's not either or, it's both and. But we do have to know the age of our children, the development, you know, where they are.
And so, when children are younger, they're in that concrete stage of thinking where it's more facts. You know, they're memorizing and they're telling us back, right? But as they grow older into their more abstract stage of thinking, and then they begin to reason, so we have to know what stages there are.
So, when they're very little, we're just basically teaching them truths. A catechism is a great way for very small children who are in the grammar stage in classical education, that concrete stage where you teach them a question, you teach them the answer, then they say it back to you. And we learned from a very young age. Children can learn a lot. They're sponges.
You know, they can even communicate before they're verbal, just using some basic sign language.
So, we just learned some really basic ways to communicate and to do those things. And, like Janine said, there's so much going on in those times, so they're learning to read. And we're teaching our children a love of reading. And when we instill in our children a love for reading, they'll be lifelong learners. Yeah, that's good.
They're also learning how to sit. You're helping them learn how to sit. But we also would give them things to do, like Janine said. But it's so simple. You know, like we would sit at breakfast.
I used the New Living Translation. It had just come out. And we were just reading through the Bible. And I don't know how long it took us to get through it, but we would just read a portion, maybe as much as a chapter. We would say a few words, and then we would pray for one another.
When they could understand, then we would just simply ask, what questions do you have? And then, how can we pray for you today? And so we would just do that in the morning. But then in the evenings, what we would do is after dinner, we would check in. I would read aloud.
I love fantasy, Janine not so much. And so I would read The Chronicles of Narnia, The Hobbit. We would do that in the evenings. And then bedtime was just really simple. We would do the catechism.
And then I would sit with them. We would sing three little songs, ask them how we could pray for them, and just pray with them. That's so sweet. And it really was very simple. And a lot of us have kids in different ages and stages.
And it's like, oh, my goodness, you know, who am I teaching to? Like, am I teaching to the 10-year-old or the two-year-old? And it's amazing as you're teaching to the older kids what the younger ones are getting. And, you know, just doing it again and again. Yeah, I remember one time Janine was taking the girls to brush their teeth, and I had the two-year-old, and we had been doing the catechism, and I'm looking at her, and I'm looking, what do I do?
I just wait for them to come back, and I just thought, let's go. Who made you? She said, Tony. Todd made me. Todd.
I said, well, what else did God make? Todd made all things. I said, well, why did God make you and all things? To his own glory. And I thought, my goodness, she gets it.
She's been absorbing it as we're doing it with the older sisters. Absolutely. And one of the things that's helpful to understand is that little children, they're like a warehouse. Their brains are like a warehouse and they're shelving. And what our job is to put.
That Truths of God in those shelves in the right places so that as they grow and develop, the Holy Spirit has something to work with, those truths to convict of righteousness, truth, and judgment, and to draw them to Christ. And so, what we're doing is we're just filling the warehouse with God's truth. You know, I'm thinking now for the parents of young children, I want to speak specifically to you. And Juan, let me ask you about this, and certainly, Janine, jump in. One of the things that I felt was the progression for me in parenting was going from expectations of behavior, whatever it might be, to a little a bit more relaxed, not to be so uptight.
And I think that's a normal progression of every parent. And that poor firstborn. I know. Oh, the poor firstborn.
Sorry, John. But, you know, you take so much because the parents were so rigid. And in that context, how do we learn earlier? You know, like grandparents are awesome, but this is the second time around, right? How do we learn and how do we encourage younger parents to get there more quickly?
And the get there is to relax. Yep. Yeah. Well, let me just say a few things. Number one, You're not a perfect parent.
What? And your child is not a perfect child. And your child does not need a perfect parent. Your child has a perfect savior, and that's what your child needs. What your child needs is for you to be a faithful Christian, and that's what's important for us to understand.
That's a big statement, and so I think sometimes we overcomplicate what we're doing. What we're really doing is we're Growing in Christ's likeness before our children. And we're doing what God has called all of us to do as Christians. We're modeling Christ-likeness. Ephesians 4:11 through 16.
We're speaking the truth and love to one another until we all grow in Christ's likeness. And then we just kind of helpfully correct one another.
Well, no, no, this is not quite right. No, that's not quite right. But that's what we're doing. We're living it out. And so what we encourage and we advocate for is.
The very early years, a more parental-directed home because your children need that. But what you're doing is as they learn responsibility, you give them more and more responsibility. When they can accept your authority, then what you want to do is give them opportunities. Because what ends up happening is in child-centered homes, they're giving away all the authority now. And then when the kids become teenagers, they don't like the choices they're making.
And so they're trying to rein them in.
So it's the very opposite. And so, if you can do the hard work now or later, but you will do the hard work. And the later you wait to do the hard work, the harder it becomes. That is so true. And Janine, let me amplify this a little for moms.
What I've seen is when moms When their fear goes up, especially those teen years, and dads can do this too, but I think it's more prevalent in moms. When fear goes up, control rises higher in order to get their feeling of security back with the kids. And man, that can be the exact wrong move at that time because your teenage. child is trying to Get independence. Hopefully, you've done the hard work, that they're wise in their independence.
But if not, that fear rises and then your control rises higher, and now you've got rebellion. Sure.
Well, and fear is an awful master. Isn't it? Yes. And it kills relationship. And so that's just one of the things that I think is so important on this journey of parenting.
Am I being winsome in how I'm dealing with this child, pointing them to Christ, discipling them? Or am I being just an authoritarian ogre? Right. And I think that the more permissive we are in the younger years, doing it backwards. We have more fear, we're more fear-driven, and then we get to these teenage years and we want to clamp down, and it chokes the life out of that relationship because at the end of the day, you're not.
Trusting? First of all, you're not trusting the Lord. You're not trusting the team. You're not trusting in God's word. And so, this is just such an amazing time to have positive instruction, opportunities, conversations.
And let me tell you, it takes time, but. It will not be void. It will bring back that relationship so that before your kid goes out, you're talking about it.
Okay, what are you doing? What are some pitfalls? What are some dangers you might see as you're going out? We're giving you all the freedom. What are some expectations, right, that we have of you?
And we would talk about those beforehand. We expect you to go where you say you're going to go, be with who you say you're going to be with, and be home at a certain time. And also, helping our kids to know this is really important. This was something that my dad instilled in our home: if there was trouble, I knew I could call my dad. Wow, that's good.
I knew that, and I did.
Now, there are consequences to that, but I knew that I didn't have to handle that situation myself. And I wanted my teenagers to know that. All of these situations are opportunities for discipleship, and there have to be natural consequences afterwards. Your oldest girl is, is she out of the house? She's 34.
She's 34. Okay. Oldest is 34, youngest is 23.
Okay, so in that context, you guys have lived this, and I want to speak again to a different spectrum of parenting where we get a lot of calls for counseling help, which we want you to do that. Call us if you need us. But it's kind of that to your point where if you were passive in younger years, as you said, Juan, at some point you pay the parenting piper. It's going to come up.
So these kids that are raised in good Christian homes, they go to Sunday school, go to church, they hear it, they can recite it. They get to a point where they get out of the home. Off to college or whatever they're going to do, and they're free from that parenting throttle, and they go crazy. You hear about this: kids going to Christian schools, and it's a party every night, and they're not controlling those appetites well. What, you know, your influence as a parent is really diminished at this point, and there are people that are suffering in that spot right now.
They don't know what to do. What advice would you have for them when that control is now gone? I mean, it's only influence.
So, a few things. Number one, what we would hope would happen, it doesn't always, is You know, Jonathan Lehman talks about in his book on authority the difference between authority of command and authority of counsel. It's a really helpful concept. With younger children, we want to exercise the authority of command. And slowly, as we disciple our children and we equip them to make choices, that authority of command then becomes authority of counsel.
So we're reasoning together, we're exhorting, we're coaching them before they go out. But what happens when that pattern or that model was not exercised and our children are out of the house? We no longer have. Command, authority of command, and we barely have authority of counsel. Again, this is where the gospel comes in.
This is where. If it were me, I would just simply say, I've recognized where I have failed. And so rather than be exasperated, remind myself: we're parenting for the long haul, not the moment. And so don't let the moment overwhelm you, right? And so long as that child has breath in his or her lungs and Christ has not returned, there is the hope and power of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
And so one of the ways I would display that is to confess my sin, confess my mistakes, ask for forgiveness, and then appeal for a relationship. And then just continue to pursue the relationship and slowly try to rebuild that relationship to get to that place where that authority of counsel has come back in place. I thought that might be the direction we go. And I think that's what's so critical here. Relationship is so important.
And oftentimes in that emotional moment, we like to think of it like a strand where we're cutting bits of the flesh. Fiber of that tether between us and our child. And when we Don't respond out of relationship when we do the you must lecture. Yeah, a little bit of the cord is ripped between you. And I wouldn't say relationship at all cost because there are things that occur that you need to stand firmly, drug addictions and other addictions and things that are damaging.
You need to be firm and get them hopefully into help. But relationship is critically important. I mean, that's what we're made for. That's why God created us was for relationship.
So we then can take that into our parenting role to bless our children with the concept of relationship. But how does a parent that is just, ah, You know, it's so hard because my child is behaving in such a way that it's difficult, Juan, to have a relationship with this son. John Piper wrote an article on how to continue to pursue your wayward child that I think is really helpful, but I do think. You know, we're kind of at the mercy when they're outside the home. And so, if we have asked for forgiveness, I find letter writing is helpful because you can write down your thoughts, and that child can take that letter.
And I trust that the Lord might. Allow them to read that letter and to really think through without the pressure of having to respond immediately in conversation. And so, you write the letter, you let them read it, you let them have it, you give them every opportunity, but you keep sending Christmas cards, you keep sending birthday cards. You know, you give texts, you send texts, you send scriptures, you keep praying for them, right? You do the relational wrestling with God for their souls.
And so, you never stop doing that, you never stop trusting the Lord for that, and you never stop inviting them to come back. Yeah, but man, this has been good. What a great start. This is just like sitting in a living room and having a conversation with good friends.
So, this has been really good. Thanks for being here. Yeah, thank you for having us. And that was the intention of our book: to give it to folks as if we were sitting down with them for coffee. It's good.
I mean, this has been such an encouraging reminder that parenting is about more than behavior and those busy schedules. It's about shaping hearts and pointing our children toward a last. Relationship with God. Let me turn to you, our listeners. Here at Focus on the Family, we're here to help you and your family to thrive in Christ.
We want to equip you, mom and dad, as you're raising the future, the next generation. We have a whole library of resources designed to encourage and equip you: articles, programs like this one, video series, and so much more. Our parenting team works really hard to stay ahead of the challenges families are facing so you don't have to navigate them alone. A great place to start is by signing up for our age and stage e-newsletters. Each week, you'll receive a short email tailored to your child's specific age and stage, offering practical, biblically grounded insights to help you parent with confidence in the twos and the eights and the fifteens.
I mean, it's great. You only have about 940 weeks, 0 to 18, to shape that child's character.
So think of it that way. We also have. Juan and Janine's excellent book, Reaching Your Child's Heart: A Practical Guide to Faithful Parenting. It is filled with biblical wisdom and practical insight for every age and stage. And it's a great reminder that our calling as parents is to point our children to God and cultivate a love for Him in their hearts.
And when you make a gift of any amount to support the work here at Focus on the Family, we'll send you that book as our way of saying thank you for being part of the ministry. Let me share this note from Carly, who wrote in to tell us this: Because of the insight I've gained from listening to your show, I was able to help one of my teenage students navigate a very tense and difficult family situation with advice that was godly, Christ-honoring, and respectful. The conversation addressed so many challenging issues, and I'm deeply thankful for the wisdom you've shared and how clearly it helped guide my response. Thank you from the bottom of my heart for all you do. I can't wait to apply what I've learned with my.
Own kids as well.
Well, that is tremendous to hear. It is, and I'm thankful that we're able to help together. You and us here at Focus, we're able to help with very specific situations like that one. When you support Focus on the Family, you're helping parents like Carly gain the confidence and biblical wisdom they need to raise their children in healthy, Christ-centered ways. But this kind of ministry is only possible with support from friends like you.
You can provide that much-needed help when you do your ministry through Focus on the Family.
So, consider donating today. Yeah, reach out and make your contribution when you call 800, the letter A in the word family, or look for details in the show notes. Thanks for listening today to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.
Next year marks 50 years of ministry for Focus on the Family, encouraging families and helping them thrive in Christ every day. How has God used Focus on the Family to strengthen your marriage, guide you in your parenting, restore a relationship, or bring hope in a difficult season? We want to hear your story. Call now and share how Focus on the Family has made an impact in your life. You'll find the details and the link in the show notes.
