If you love Christian music, you'll enjoy Focus Live, a new station powered by Godcaster. Get the app today at focusonthefamily.com/slash podcasts. When we release a loved one, when we release a child into trusting the Lord. You know, we're releasing them to the Lord. We're not releasing them to a cliff to fall over.
We need to mentally have this picture. We are releasing them into the arms of God. And that's the safest place for any person to be.
Now will we always get the outcome that we want? Absolutely not. But regardless, we can't control the outcome anyways. That's insight from Lisa Turkhurst, who's our guest today again on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. And we're glad you've joined us.
I'm John Fuller. You know, John, it's great to have Lisa back. Every time it's just like wisdom, wisdom, wisdom. And she's lived, you know, a life of observation, I would say. You know, last time we talked about fear and control, and we're going to continue that discussion today.
It was so good and has application for each and every person because in this life, in our sinful nature, fear, which the Lord does not want us to live in, leads to unhealthy control issues. And I would say, you know, many of the marital problems that we see here at Focus on the Family that we help at Hope Restored are marriage-intensive, much of it is rooted in this area of fear and control. And I'm so grateful she's written the book that we can talk about today. And I just want to get on with it. Yeah, yeah.
And that book is called Making Peace with What I Can't Control, Find Relief from the Exhaustion of Orange. Overthinking, trying to fix others, and wanting to figure it all out. Hey, hang on, John. The phones are ringing off the hook. Don't miss out on your opportunity.
Yeah, contact us today if you want to get a copy of the book. And by the way, download the broadcast app that we have so you don't have any fear about missing out on what Lisa shared last time. We covered a lot of material last time, but we're going to roll into continuing to get to this issue of fear and control and all that. Let's go back and kind of talk about the common fears that often lead to control because we didn't get to that list. And I'll read them again, and I want you to highlight a couple, but fear of rejection, abandonment, or not being loved.
So these are the things in our, a lot of times in our childhood that we experience that set up our attitudes and our emotional response. And even our perceptions of present-day things we're going to face. We will pull from these previous feelings and they may go all the way back to unhealed things in our childhood. Or even experiences that we had throughout our adulthood. But boy, rejection's a big one.
And abandonment. I mean, in a marriage, that can be the other spouse is working late, and you catastrophize that into what are they doing? They're not wanting to spend time with me. And they're actually working on a project that the boss said, Could you get this done by the time you leave tonight?
So some of that is like that, right? And because of those wounds as a child, you're. Make again is something it's not. Yeah, I think one of the greatest fears that we have as humans is emotional suffering. And certainly the fear of loss ties right into that as well.
I tell a story in the book about one of my dearest friends. Her name is Leah. She has worked side by side with me on every book project that I've done for it seems like. Eons, truly. But because we're so Close and we're working together all the time.
We process a lot of life. I tell a story about Leah losing her father to brain cancer. And he went from being this vibrant, healthy, strong man to Finding out he had a brain tumor and then the decline and deterioration, it was shocking. It definitely impacted her, and the grief was enormous.
So Leah had one son by the time her father passed, and then she since had another daughter. And she came to me and she said, I think there's this area of controlling that has been really troublesome to my marriage. And that is that I always want to make every choice for my kids to make sure that they are healthy. And, you know, I've watched my father deteriorate and I don't want that in my children. And so it's caused some tension between her and her husband.
So we were processing this. And I asked her a very important question. I said, Leah, are you trying to keep your kids healthy? Or are you trying to prevent cancer? Because trying to keep your kids healthy That is a responsible thing to do.
trying to prevent cancer is impossible You can do all that you can do to set your children's health up for success, but ultimately you cannot control whether or not they ever get, you know, a diagnosis of cancer. And I think that helped open her brain to that fine line between being responsible, feed your kids healthy food, do what you need to do to keep them healthy, but not be so controlling where you take it into hyperdrive trying to prevent cancer because at the end of the day, that's not going to be possible. Yeah, and that's a good example of how to. Deal in a healthy way with something that could be unhealthy. How did, I mean, what was her first response, if you can recall?
I mean, how did she defensive or no? She wasn't because I asked her a very important question at first: Are you open to a thought? And anytime we're gonna share something that could step on somebody's toes, you just ask, you know, are you open to a thought? And she said, Yes, I am. And so I asked her that profound question: You know, are you trying to keep your kids healthy?
Are you trying to prevent cancer? And it really, really impacted on a very practical level the way that she's now interacting with her family. It was life-changing to her. It's not a perfect science, of course. Does she sometimes still step into trying to prevent cancer?
Of course, she does. But because she's aware of it, it has drastically improved the environment of her home. And I think that's the secret. It's not to do this right all the time, but it's to get it right while there is still time to provide a Healthier environment for us and our loved ones. Yeah, that is so good.
In that regard, you were up in an alpine, I think, one of those alpine slide rides. We have plenty of them here in Colorado, actually. Come visit them, but it's what they do in the summertime, and you get into this metal, I don't know what you'd call it, car. Yeah, kind of a roller coaster car. Yeah, and you ride down the ski slopes, and you do it at a fast pace.
But you learned something in that, kind of that little lesson of how to surrender. That's right. And it was a painful lesson, truly.
So, my friend Joy really wanted to ride the mountain coaster. I was very timid and I thought, I don't want to ride the mountain coaster. I've never wanted to ride a mountain coaster. I don't have that on my bingo card. And I'm looking at the mountain coaster and I'm like, I'm not even sure this thing is 100% safe.
So I would prefer not to. I can find other things to do to have a lot of fun. I don't need that. But she was like, come on, you can do it with me. You can do it with me.
And then she finally said, we'll ride on it together. I said, okay.
So we get up. And you know, have you ever been in a situation where things are unfolding, but it takes your brain a minute to catch up before all of a sudden you realize it's kind of too late. My brain didn't catch up on time. That's what happened. They strapped Joy in her seat, ushered me to the front of the car.
Basically, I am sitting on the front of the car. They put a seat belt across me, and then the thing goes. And I realized I'm in a terrible position. I was trying to control, and instead, now I I have put myself in the worst position possible. I'm strapped to the front of this.
The thing starts going. The operator looks at Joy and says: Do not hit the brake unless there's an object in front of you. And Joy and I are both rule followers, and so she never hit the break. And we went so fast because the weight of two of us on the car made us go even faster. And never hitting the brake, we screamed so loud.
We had friends on the other side of the mountain, and they could hear us and identify that it was Joy and Lisa screaming. And at first, I was screaming like for my life, like, help me, help me. Like, I was so unwell. But about three quarters of the way into the ride, I thought all that's doing is wearing my voice out. Like, nobody's coming to save us.
No, there is until we get through this, we cannot get off this, we cannot get around this, we cannot get above this, we've got to get. through this. And I stopped screaming. And I just kind of surrendered to the process, and we did get through it. You know, one of the most powerful prepositions in all of the Bible, as my friend Dr.
Joel Munamali says, is the word through. We have to sometimes just go through. The children of Israel had to go through the wilderness. Jesus had to go through the cross.
Sometimes we are going to be in situations where there is absolutely nothing we can do. We are strapped to the front of a situation that is going to barrel through what is going to barrel through. And we have to get through it. But in the process of getting through it, if we white knuckle it, resist it, scream at the top of our lungs, we can certainly make that the way we get through it. Or we can realize, ultimately, I don't have control.
Ultimately, I've got to surrender this. And what I would say is surrender it to the Lord. And the roller coaster eventually came to a stop. Unstrapped myself, got off, and I declared I'll never do that again.
So, you know, but in the middle of it, there was nothing I could do to control. And I thought, this is what it feels like. This is what it feels like to have absolutely no control, and guess what? I survived. And we pay money to do that.
I did pay money. That's a very important thing. I think Joy actually paid money for it. You know what's interesting with that? Think of.
life circumstances, whatever they might be, in the operator. Whispering that, the Lord whispering to us, don't use the brake. Wow. Whatever you do, don't use the break. I've got you.
That's a challenge. It's such a challenge. It really is. And let me tell you: if I could have reached that break, I would have hit it myself. But I couldn't reach the break.
I couldn't even have a conversation with Joy. It was too loud, too fast. I mean, there was literally nothing I could do. This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, and our guest today is Lisa Turkhurst. And that's the kind of biblical, practical insight you'll get when you get a copy of her book, Making Peace with What I Can't Control.
Find relief from the exhaustion of overthinking, trying to fix others, and wanting to figure it all out. Get a copy of the book from us and deploy some of these principles. You will find yourself living a better life. We've got the book here. Call 800, the letter A in the word family, or click the link in the show notes.
Lisa, I'm thinking of a book that Focus published with Dr. Ken Wilgus. The title is hilarious. It's Feeding the Mouth That Bites You, How to Emancipate Teenagers into Adulthood. And it kind of fits with this.
But he explained to me, and I'm going to paraphrase, so Ken, if I'm doing this inappropriately, let me know. But he said a lot of his therapy time as a counselor is spent helping parents more so understand the moment they're in because they tend to linger in that control, like you said, the healthy control of raising a young child, but they still have those attributes in the teen years. And he said, that's the biggest mistake a parent is making. You know, you let your later teen decide if they're going to go to church. Really?
Ken, are you serious? Because you know the answer is most likely maybe not. But he's saying let them fail at home rather than go off to college or whatever they're going to do and totally get untethered to good habits, good biblical characteristics, etc. But you got to be strong enough, courageous enough to let them fail. And it's better that they fail in your home.
That's kind of the genesis. But he said most of the therapy is undoing a parent's thought. And helping a child be able to express themselves, which is kind of what you're saying. Yeah, and let me fully acknowledge that. I know how hard this is.
And it sounds good when we're recording a broadcast. Practical everyday living.
Sometimes we're going to do this right and sometimes we're going to get it wrong. The secret is to recognize when we've gotten it wrong, when we've stepped over and tried to not only manage ourselves, but manage their life as well, is to catch it quickly and to go and acknowledge, like, hey, I have stepped over into control mode. And, you know, I love you. I want the best for you. It's not an excuse, but that is the truth.
And guess what?
Now I'm ready to say the script to you. Yeah.
Okay. Your choice.
Okay. You see, I think we cross the line again from being responsible to being controlling the minute that I don't stop at just sharing my wisdom, but I expect someone else's choices to line up with my desires. That's it. That's the difference, and that's exactly what he's getting at, and that's where you end up in trouble.
So let's make sure we understand what's mine and what's yours. Whoever that other person is, your spouse, your child, your friend. How do you know what's genuinely yours to own and what is theirs to own?
So if I can't own it, I can't control it.
So here's the thing. I tell a story in the book about a loved one that had been struggling with addictions. And certainly in the world of addictions, control is a really big factor at play.
So my loved one had been struggling with addictions. And I had gotten so in tune with their struggle that one night I woke up and it was like two o'clock in the morning and I sat straight up in bed gasping. And I'm like, they're in trouble. They're doing something they're not supposed to be doing.
Now, we didn't live in the same household, but it was someone I cared a lot about. And so we had FindMy on our phone. And so I checked their location. And sure enough, 2 a.m., they're driving around. And I thought, there's no reason to be driving around at 2 a.m.
And I literally got in my car. I want you to hear where I'm crossing the line now. I got in my car and I drove to find them. They went through an all-night drive-thru. I went to that drive-through.
I was able to catch up to them and I pulled my car. Beside theirs, told them to pull over. They refused. I parked my car. I went and I put my body, I stood my body.
In front of their vehicle and said, You cannot. Drive until you pull over and take a breathalyzer test. And it had become such an overwhelming situation that I carried a breathalyzer test in my glove compartment. And so I eventually got them to pull over. And eventually they took the breathalyzer test.
And eventually I talked them into letting me drive them home. But I will tell you, after I dropped them off, I drove home. I walked up my sidewalk at three AM. And I thought What am I doing? This is not sustainable.
This is not sustainable. And in the end, This isn't helping. Yeah.
Is that an extremely painful realization? Yes. But what I was doing was I was not only doing my part, I was doing their part. And I felt like it was my duty to prevent bad things from happening. And so I became a rescuer to the nth degree.
And in the end, did all of my rescuing efforts ever cause them to turn around? No. I rescued and rescued and rescued and rescued, but it's kind of like pulling a loved one off a train track. If they're continuing to crawl back up on that train track and the train is barreling closer and closer and closer, every single time when you climb back on the train track and you pull them off and you pull them off and you pull them off, eventually you're going to crawl up on the train track chasing them once again and the train's going to run over you both. Yeah.
I mean, and it's, you know, I know a story where someone did engage their adult. Child, young adult, 20-something, and they did that exact thing, and it actually. The outcome was a more positive outcome, that that was an action that arrested the child's behavior and they got help. And so it is, you know, you never know. But I.
Just like you're looking at those things, but you've got to know your motivation and only you can know your motivation. Like, how far can I do this? How long can I do this? And, you know, that is such a... A personal thing, but the warning is what we're wanting parents to hear or friends to hear.
And look, you can be a support, you can be the parent, you can be their greatest prayer warrior, you can put resources in front of them so that they can try to get the help they need. But at the end of the day, they have to make that choice. That is so true, especially for addictions. Yeah.
Lisa, let me ask you. You have a great story about giving a very precious treasure to a stranger on an airplane, somebody named Maron. Describe what happened. And then what happened over the years?
So, I got an airplane one day, and this was 25 years ago, and I was very tired.
So, I prayed a selfish prayer. Lord, let me be the only one on my row because I'm so tired. I've been speaking at a retreat all weekend, and I was all talked out.
So, I sat down, and at first, I was the only one on my row, and I was like, Oh, thank you, Lord. And then, right before the plane doors closed, they let one last person on the airplane. It was a man named Ron. I came to know his name because he came to sit right beside me. And I was like, And he wanted to talk.
Well, I wasn't sure at first, so I decided I'm gonna pull out my Bible.
So, either that will make him not talk to me, or if we do talk, I'm gonna steer the conversation to something that I want to talk about, and that's the Lord.
So, he sat down, and at first he didn't say anything, and then he leaned over as we got into the flight. He goes, So, you're just gonna like sit there? And read the Bible? And I looked at him and I said, Yes, I think the Bible is very interesting. What do you know about the Bible?
And he's kind of fumbled with his answer a bit, letting me know he knew some facts about God, but he didn't have a personal relationship with the Lord. And then he started asking me questions about the Bible. And so, first, they were kind of easy. I was able to answer them. And then I started lifting up emergency prayers to the Lord, like, help me find these answers, Lord.
You know, and I'm going all over the Bible and reading him different scriptures. And in the middle of all of that, the Lord said to me, just really pressed on my heart, Lisa, give this man your Bible. And so while I'm still witnessing to this man, I start having an argument with God. I'm like, God, this is my Bible Bible. This is my tear-stained, highlighted, written in.
My kids have drawn pictures in this. This is my Bible Bible. But that is a good suggestion. I'll go home, I'll buy him a Bible, I'll highlight some verses, package it up, get his address, send it to him, go, God. And I continue to talk to Ron.
But the Lord was just crystal clear, putting it on my heart, give this man your Bible.
So eventually I closed my Bible, I put the Bible on Ron's lap, and I said, I think you're supposed to have my Bible. And he looked at me very shocked. And he said, Why would you give what is obviously a treasured possession to a complete stranger? Why would you do that? I said, Well, I have to be honest, I don't really want you to have my Bible.
That was good. But something that I've learned is in the midst of all of eternity, sometimes God pauses in the midst of all of this to touch the heart of one person. And Ron, I believe God's paused for you today. And so he took the Bible. He told me he would read it.
And then the plane landed. We exchanged business cards. He took the Bible and got off the plane. And I remember thinking, Oh, Lord, can I chase him down to make sure he doesn't throw it away in the nearest airport trash can? And the Lord was crystal clear.
Like, no. Anything you release into my hands, and this is what I felt like the Lord was saying, anything you release to me will never truly be gone. Wow. Kind of feeling that in my heart, hearing it from the Lord. And then a couple weeks later, I get a call from Ron.
I was at my office. He called and he said, You are never going to believe what's happened to me. I went home and I took a week off from work to read that Bible. I acted like, yeah, yeah, yeah. Of course, that's what we all do, but inside, I'm like, what?
Whoa, and I never heard from Ron again. And then, fast forward 24 years later. I was on tour in San Antonio, a little city outside of San Antonio, and three women came and found one of my assistants and said, Is there any way we could meet Lisa? Because we want to tell her the rest of the story if she remembers the Bible that she gave away on that plane. Of course, I remembered.
And so we brought them backstage, and it was Ron's sister, a good family friend, and Ron's daughter. Yeah.
and they shared with me the rest of the story. That Ron wound up giving his heart to the Lord. And he wound up leading his entire family to Christ. And then the daughter pulled out the Bible. and um she'd brought it with her.
the Bible that I thought I'd never see again. And she pulled it out and she said, You know, a few years ago my dad passed away very suddenly, and the greatest treasure he left me was your Bible that you'd given him. and she opened it up, and I could see my handwriting all throughout the Bible. I could see Ron's handwriting from all those years all throughout the Bible. And then when Ron passed away, I could then see his daughter's handwriting all through the Bible.
And you know, that Bible story. It it it revisited my life. At a time where I was really struggling. God, are you here? God do you?
Hear my prayers Are you in control? And, you know, God didn't have to do that. He didn't have to bring that Bible back 24 years later.
Now, of course, I told the daughter she has to keep the Bible, but just the fact that I held it again and I heard the rest of the story, only God could do that. And it reminded me so powerfully: God really is in control. God really does care about us. God really is working behind the scenes in ways that we will never, ever know all the details of. And most importantly, it truly, truly is a fact that whatever we release into the hands of God is never truly gone.
It is safe to surrender that which is outside of our control to the Lord and let the Lord do what only He can do. We need to do our part. And then we have to leave the rest to God. We need to stop carrying weight that was never ours, that was never meant for us to carry. Wow.
Because it's really hard to enjoy your life. when you're trying to control everything and everyone in your life. It won't be joyful. It will not be joyful. And so the choice is, it's not that we're going to get it right all the time, but the choice is to get it right right now while there is still time to, instead of dreading your life, start enjoying your life and start surrendering to God that which is outside of your control.
Lisa, so good.
So, so good. Thank you for being with us. This was powerful. And I hope for the listeners that this is striking a chord for you. If you're living there and you're trying to do the right thing for everybody, it may be time to assess that and look at obedience rather than living in fear and control.
Lisa, again, thanks for being with us. You're so welcome. And if that's where you're at, get in touch with us. We have so much help for you here at Focus on the Family. Our team of caring Christian counselors is here to listen, pray with you.
And help you find a path forward with hope and peace. And we have a wealth of trusted resources to come alongside you offering biblical wisdom and practical help for your marriage, your parenting, and whatever challenges your family may be facing. Just reach out to us. One of those great resources is Lisa's terrific book, Making Peace with What I Can't Control: Find Relief from the Exhaustion of Overthinking, Trying to Fix Others, and Wanting to Figure It All Out. I mean, that title really sums it up.
If fear, worry, overthinking, or trying to manage the choices of others has left you exhausted, this resource will help you. It'll help you recognize what's yours to carry and find the courage to release the rest to God. And when you make a pledge today, gift of any amount, we'll send you a copy of Lisa's book, Making Peace with What I Can't Control, as our way of saying thank you for being part of the ministry. and helping others too. And let me share how your gifts reach others.
We heard from Jennifer who said this. I'm a fairly new listener and I'm so thankful God led me to Focus on the Family during my morning commute. For the past three months, your guests and topics have encouraged me so much that I arrive at work feeling like a new person each day. You've changed my life for the better and now I'm telling my friends about Focus on the Family so they can be encouraged too. I love that.
And we appreciate the word of mouth promotion too. The more people we can reach and help with the content, the better. And every day people turn to focus on the family in the middle of circumstances they never expected to be in and are out of their control. Your generosity allows us to be there with trusted resources, counseling support, broadcasts like this one, and much, much more. All in all, pointing people to the hope in Jesus Christ.
If you can't commit to a monthly amount, please send a one-time gift and we'll send you. Yalisa's book, Is Our Way Again of Saying Thank You. Yeah, donate today, set up a time to talk with one of our counselors, and get other help when you call 800, the letter A and the word family, or click the links in the show notes. Thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once more help you and your family thrive in Christ.
If you love Christian music, you'll enjoy Focus Live, a new station powered by Godcaster. Get the app today at focusonthefamily.com/slash podcasts.
