Your church comes to you each week to fill their cup. But when the crowd leaves, who's filling yours? That's exactly what I'm here to do with my new podcast from Focus on the Family. It's called Pastor to Pastor with Dave Stone. I'm so excited to help you navigate the unique challenges that pastors face in their ministry journey, both personally and professionally.
So, I invite you to listen and subscribe to Pastor to Pastor, wherever you get your podcasts. It feels like this force that is absolutely about to come over you and take over you and make it so that. I mean, if you've ever been tumbled in a wave in the ocean, you can't breathe. You're so disoriented, you don't even know which way is up. That's Sherry Gregory describing what it feels like to be overwhelmed.
And Sherry was our guest last time, along with Kathy Lipp. They talked about a great book they've co-written called Overwhelmed. how to quiet the chaos and restore your sanity. We'll hear more from them today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly and I'm John Fuller. John, last time we shared a very instructive conversation with Kathy and Sherry about where many busy families are living today, stressed out, running from one thing to another, is it ringing anybody's bell?
And not experiencing the peace of God, which Philippians 4, 7 says will surpass all understanding and will guard your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus. It's that sense of being overwhelmed, like Sherry was saying in the opening clip there. I think women in particular may be more susceptible to this because moms, for example, have so many details they're trying to coordinate all at once, all the time. And it would be wise for us as husbands to try to lean in and ease that burden for our wives when they feel this way. We also learned about how different personalities react.
To Being Overwhelmed, the expressive, the analytic, the drivers, the amiables, and the highly sensitive person or HSP. This was really interesting content, and if you missed it, be sure to get the download from us or get the Focus on the Family app so you can access all the programs anytime you'd like. Yeah, we'll have more information about our guests and their book, Overwhelmed, and of course our app as well, all on our website. Right now, here's part two of the conversation with Sherry Gregory and Kathy Lipp on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. You talk about the power of micro steps.
And that it sounds self-evident.
Okay, if I'm feeling overwhelmed, if I just do these one or two things, it'll get me to a better place. Is that what you're driving at?
Well, okay, so I was reading all these blogs and all these books that say, hey, we're going to break it down into three simple steps. And their simple steps were things like, empty out your inbox for email. I was like, hold on. Oh my goodness. How many do you have in there?
Like 3,000? No, no. I'm one of those people who gets freaked out if it gets above 50. But those 50, to me, they are 50 obligations I have to get back to. Roger has about 3,000 in his box, my husband.
And like, I can't even look. I mean, it just sends me into a panic attack. But in his mind, all those are probably categorized. I share Roger's sense of that. I've got a lot of unmet.
Hey, as long as you can sleep at night, that's fine. I just can't think about you. But I remember going to my inbox and seeing these emails that I knew there was some kind of discussion that was happening or a problem. And it felt overwhelming to say, okay, I'm going to do that email right now.
So I had to break it down into micro steps. And this is going to sound cuckoo for Cocoa Puffs to some people listening, but I had to give myself a check mark just for opening the email. Because that counts as a step. Right. Not even reading the email, but I just needed to.
Open up because there's something about opening it up.
Okay, we've started the process.
Okay, we're doing this. And then another step of reading the email, not responding, just reading. And so I call those micro steps. And for some reason, putting those down and giving myself a little bit of credit for each of those steps helped me be less overwhelmed. And I think there are so many things in our day.
When you say, Okay, I have to get dinner tonight.
Well, we have to think about the hundred micro steps that go into that, which sounds overwhelming. But if you just say, Okay, One of your steps is you have to decide what's for dinner. And that decision fatigue can get to a place where you're saying, okay, I have to decide and then I have to shop and then I have to cook. And so that's why we really believe that. pre-deciding, which we talked about before, making decisions in advance, but then just saying, okay, micro steps.
If something is really overwhelming you, you don't have to take your dog to the vet. The only thing you have to do right now is find a time on your calendar where you could take the dog to the vet. And then the next step is finding the phone number for the vet. Break it down so you're not so overwhelmed and you give yourself credit for what you are doing. Let me ask you a practical question.
So, and this is for Gene and I. You know, Gene is managing the home because, you know, she's there. She's keeping that all on track.
Sometimes I'll have maintenance issues that we got to take care of that, you know, she's not necessarily grabbing the what or the how or the why. It might be the air conditioner, the heater's broken down. I'm saying, you're the one that's going to be here. I can't call and schedule it because I don't know if she's going to be. Be there from noon to three on Wednesday.
Right. Because she's got her own. Yeah.
So I'll, you know, at first, we were kind of stepping on her schedule because I would do that. And I'm not going to be here Wednesday to three.
So she'd have to call back. How do you get into that and say, okay. And she's already feeling overwhelmed. Like calling to get that fixed, Jim, is just, man, that's like the 100th thing. Are you both sighing?
I can see your faces. But there's a real practical one. How do I help her help me get it done?
So I think asking her what she needs, what part of this is overwhelming for you? Is it knowing which guy to call? Is it they're going to ask you questions that you're not going to have the answer to?
So maybe the solution is Jean calls for the time, but if they have any other questions than that, besides the time, then you're on speed dial because it's overwhelming. Does it work for you to call and have the company make the appointment with Jean? Call her and just say, Jim called us and said that you need to. Still, a sense of being overwhelmed. I think for her, just having to put that into an already busy schedule overwhelms her to where it's like, wow, I just, and so inevitably, what can happen is it just takes.
And it can frustrate me because it'll take just too long to get it fixed. And now we've got a little spark going between us, and I'm going. Oh, come on. But here, okay, I'm coming to Gene's defense. Come on.
I'm here for you, Gene. Let me tell you all the things that are going on in this. One, it's decision fatigue. Like she's having to make more decisions. Right.
I get it. And overwhelm is the unknown. You know, she's going to have to answer the repair guy's question.
Well, ma'am, this is going to cost, you know, $1,500. Do you want to spend that? And you're in a meeting and she's having to make the decision. There's all sorts of stuff going on there. And so, what I need when I'm overwhelmed in a situation like that, I just need to know that Roger is on my team.
That I can say. You'll talk to the guy, right? Yes, I will talk to the guy. Another good way, maybe to just say, give me four blocks of time. Yeah.
And I could take care of it, but I need your blocks of time. Right. And that could be hard too, though. I don't have any of those blocks of time. But here's the thing.
But you know what? Asking the question, you feel like you're on the same team. It doesn't feel like, well, you're at home, honey, so you have to take care of all this. It says, no, we're a team, and I can come in on these hard parts for you, and we're going to make this work. Let's move to a different example where you guys give advice in your book, Overwhelmed, about saying no.
Which I think for some personality types, which we covered last time, and maybe you can connect this where a certain personality type struggles saying no. I doubt a driver, for example, struggles with no, but maybe. But certainly the people pleaser would, and everything they're asking is, okay, well, let me check, which means yes to the listener. Yes. And means maybe to you.
And now you're stuck doing it and you're already overbooked.
So an angel. Amiable is going to have a hard time saying no because they want to be the people pleaser. That's what you're saying.
So they may leave things open-ended, whereas we feel like that's a yes. They haven't committed to it. And so there's a misunderstanding there. The expressive says yes, because yes is fun. Yes is so much fun to say.
Yes, I will do that. Yes, this will be great. The driver. has a hard time saying no to themselves when change comes up. Oh, they're not okay with change.
We said we were going to do this. On January 7th.
So that is when it's going to happen. And so we all have these problems. And, you know, the okay, so we've done driver. Oh, so the analytic, well, just because that's what we've said we're going to do, we're going to do it. It's dry, it's also a little driverish, but because there was a plan, we're all sticking with the plan.
So the drivers can't say no because they want to get it done. The analytic can't say no because we said we were going to do it. That's how we're doing it.
So it's very hard. Every personality has a problem saying no. And Sherry, let me ask you, because I think you probably have struggled with this. How do you get a hold of that calendar, that schedule, and say, I just can't do it? And be very emphatic.
So you're not communicating a maybe yes. You're actually communicating a definite no. You know, the important thing is to realize that when you say yes, you're saying yes to everything, not just a yes to, oh, you made me feel good. I used to say yes because I wanted to communicate that the relationship was important to me. relationship.
That's interesting. Yes. And I'm realizing that I can say no to somebody without saying no to the relationship. I can say, I value our relationship. This thing you've asked me, I cannot do, but I still value.
Is that how you would say role play a little bit as girlfriends? How would you do that between each other?
Well, if I was going to ask, Sherry, oh my, I have the most exciting opportunity for you. We get to write a book together. And I can't wait. I've already got it all planned out. And I know you're really busy, but I think this is going to be a great opportunity for you.
And Sherry responds.
Okay, so which Sherry is going to respond? Oh my goodness. Because if Kathy were to ask to write another book, I'd be like, woohoo! I'm on board. Oh, wait, no, no, no.
I need to, you know, I'm going to. One of the things that I've learned.
Okay, so Kathy, all right, so so say that last line again, I know what I'd say. I would really like for you to join on with with I've got it all planned out, this is going to be great. Will you do it? Kathy, it sounds like so much fun. It I oh my goodness, you have the best ideas and you know I adore working with you.
If you need an answer right now. My automatic answer is no. But if you can give me 24 or 48 hours to talk to Daniel and to pray about it. I'd love to get back to you after having a chance to think about it. But if you need the answer right now, I'm going to have to say no because I'm in a season right now where everything's an automatic no if it's not already on my calendar.
That's good.
Now, fast forward 48 hours, and you still have to say no to Kathy, your dear friend, who's going to measure your relationship and how much you love and respect her based on this answer.
Okay, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. If she's my dear friend, she's not going to measure my relationship. That's right. And if it's somebody who's measuring my relationship based on guilt, then actually our relationship is probably very close to over at this stage. How do you recognize that you maybe have a blind spot as a friend and you're a bit of a manipulator?
If I could be this bold to where you want to get your way. And so you begin to manipulate your friendships for your benefit, whatever that might be. I have had because I can talk people into anything. I've seen that. Yeah.
I can come to find, that's why I've got a wedding ring. Hey, Roger, way to go. You're still wondering how did that happen? But what I've come to understand is. I need things to be a win-win win.
I need things to be a win for my friend. I need things to be a win for me and I need things to be a win for God's kingdom. And if I can't look at the ask and say, yes, it's a win-win-win. She's going to benefit from doing this. I'm going to benefit from us working together.
And there is going to be great kingdom results because of this, then I need to go back and say, is this the right thing for her? Is this the right thing for me?
Now, that doesn't mean I don't get to ask. I always get to ask because I don't want to put more pressure on her and come to find out the things I hate to do, she loves to do. And she felt like she missed an opportunity.
So I have to trust Sherry that she has great boundaries and that she is going to say yes to the things she wants to say yes to. It sounds like love your neighbor as yourself. It's so true. And Sherry, I'm still thinking about your comment about having a season of everything is default. No.
We went through a season like that where my wife just, the automatic was no. No. No, no. It takes a while to kind of dig out of that, but how do you start? Let me piggyback at what Kathy was just saying.
And let me see if I can connect all of these, because your question was about if you feel like you are the potential manipulated, that you guilt people into things. One of the things Kathy's always been good at Is giving us enough time, giving me enough time. When she invites me to participate in something, it's rarely rescue, it's usually help, it's usually being invited to join her team. And that's been huge for me as I'm coming out of the no's and starting to say yeses again. I've tended to be a rescuer.
But I don't want to drive the ambulance anymore. I want to be a part of a team. I want to be part of a plan. I'm learning to be more spontaneous, but I'd like to be a part of something that there's enough time to really enjoy it and do it well.
So I'm continuing to say no to the things that are last minute. A lot of last-minute things don't even need to be done. And especially if it doesn't involve my particular strengths. And we talked in the last episode of being an HSP, I'm looking more for those highly sensitive person strengths. Can they use me, or will this particular thing I'm being asked to do actually deplete me and leave less for my family?
And so I'm trying to say yes a lot more, but very intentionally, and make sure that those are the yeses for who God created me to be, rather than me constantly stepping in, yes, you want me, yes, you want me, but then I'm taking roles that maybe somebody else would be so much better to fill.
Well, and Sherry, what you're describing there is really important because the rescuer emotionally, you derive a certain benefit from being needed. Being a hero. And being the person that is needed, that I can help bring some. Peace to the situation, and that ability then to say no is usually left behind. I know in some marital conflict, this is huge because, and let's just put it in the context of how we're talking, where the wife is that rescuer, and so the friendships take precedent even over the marriage or sometimes the family.
And the shoe can be on the other foot, but just keeping it in the context of a woman. How would you coach, life coach that couple, maybe in different meetings, and you're talking to the wife, and you're also talking to the husband, who now has become very frustrated because it it looks like she cares more about those people outside of our immediate family rather than us. And then you get bitterness built up and all this you're now in that counseling mode. What are you saying to her and to the husband? You want my honest response?
I'm going to tell her she's an adrenaline addict and she needs to cut loose. Because she's getting her sense of satisfaction, her sense of identity from running around, whether it's the bake sale or the committee chair or all of the friends who call and they need her right now, and they need her in a way her husband doesn't. They need her for that emotional and they're processing with her. And she's awesome. And she's awesome at that.
And her husband comes home and only needs, what, 20 to 30 words, and he's good for the evening. And the rest of the evening is silent, and it doesn't feel as important to her, it doesn't feel as connected. She Okay, I'm not as good at Kathy as telling other people what to do.
So I'm just going to say what I needed to do with my husband. You know what he loves more than anything else? He loves being in the same room with me. I don't know why, but after almost 30 years, he just wants to be in the same room with me. And I have learned to exhale from this man because he'll just hang out on the couch and the cats will show up and I'll grab a book.
And Somewhere in there, I feel my anxiety level dialing down, and I get to this point that feels so unfamiliar, and I go, oh, that's what peace feels like. Oh, this is what freedom feels like. And I realize. A lot of this, not all of it. But a lot of this overwhelm I have done to myself.
I have brought on myself. And let's go into the man's counseling session.
Okay, let's go into that challenge. You're coming up the bit there. Right, because here's where I think. the woman, when she's with her friends, her friends are saying, Thank you so much. I so desperately needed somebody to talk to.
And she's feeling that appreciation. And when a husband can say, You know what, honey? When you sit next to me on the couch... That's home for me. And when a husband can say that, and it clicks in a woman's mind, I'm not doing anything, I'm not rescuing him, but he just needs me with him.
So, really articulating to your wife. This is what the best part of our relationship for me is. Then she can understand that's important to him. It brings the weight that all those other relationships outside the house brings. And that's where she can start to say, you know, I need to be home a couple of evenings because that's what makes my husband happy and I want to be able to do that.
And I know that there is no greater joy in my marriage than when I know I'm meeting my husband's emotional needs. This is such good stuff. I mean, I think we're hitting some real raw nerves, and I hope. Again, we've got some other questions for here, but Overwhelm Your Book, I think, is going to be a great asset to so many. Women, particularly, but us husbands as well.
Let me talk about the Sabbath. You mentioned in your book the importance of the Sabbath. You know what's so interesting for us, even as Christians, we don't talk a lot about that. I was in Israel recently with Ray Vanderlaund, who does the series with us that the world may know. And he was reiterating the importance to God's heart that we take that time because He knows how He's crafted us and engineered us.
And He's very specific that we take that rest. He knows us better than we know ourselves. But we're so busy and we pride ourselves in our busyness that we don't even take a day. And I had to learn this the hard way. from almost having a breakdown.
Not having intentional rest in my life. And One thing I was understanding was that I was looking at Sabbath as God was taking things away from me. I really did. I thought I was getting robbed. And what I've come to understand, and by the way, when we talked about we can't do this because we don't work on the Sabbath.
Family mocked us. People thought we were insane. They said, We're going to check up with you on Facebook to make sure. But what we've come to understand, and we do it, what works for our family, is dinner time on Saturday to dinner time on Sunday. And it was weird at first.
Can I just say that? It was so weird. And what does it look like, Sabbath in your home?
So now, what it looks like is it is time that it was reserved for God. for our family and for rest. and we didn't know what to do with ourselves. We're so used to accomplishing and we're so used to having Sunday to catch up on everything. The leftover goals.
Right, that was our catch up. And Sherry shared a quote with me one time, and I'm gonna get it totally wrong, but Sunday isn't the time, Sabbath isn't the day to catch up on everything that we've missed out on the week. Sunday is the day to prepare. For everything on our week. And that doesn't mean physically, but it's spiritually.
So, what we did when Roger and I first did this, we're like, well, what do we do? You know, it's so we're so used to doing. And so, we had days where we didn't have anything due, we didn't have any deadlines. And what we did was we started to invite our neighbors over for dinner. We started to make sure that our adult kids knew, hey, this is the night that we're here and we can hang out.
We started to go to Monterey because there was nothing we had to do. What a concept. There was nothing we had to do.
So we got to do things that brought us joy. And I would fight somebody to the death for my Sabbath. I am so protective of it. And my Sabbath has to move around because I am a speaker on the road.
Sometimes I'm speaking on Sunday mornings.
So Monday is my day. You know, I have to play fast and loose with the Sabbath. But I take a day and that is my day for God and for rest and for family. And I am so protective of it now.
So, and you've been able to hold to that, even though there's an endless list of things you need to do. And what do you just push those things off then? There's always going to be tomorrow. You know what? We are designed to work for six days.
That's God's design for us. And so, and when I say work, I also mean the Costco run. I mean, well, that's work. It's work. And we don't count it.
We try to fit that in on all the edges, and it doesn't work.
So, what does that look like for a mom with young kids?
Well, because those kids are work seven days a week, and then amen. I get that. And I'm not saying you get to go have a Bahama holiday and that's your, I know that. But what I'm saying is from Saturday night for us, To Sunday. evening.
That is not our time to accomplish that. I can do laundry six days a week. Probably seven.
Well, I could do it. I could do it nine. And there are only two of us. How is that even possible? One of the things we talk about in the book.
is that uh you know when the expression how much do you have on your plate Well, we have to realize everybody has different size plates.
Some of us are walking around with turkey platters, and some of us are walking around with teacup saucers. And if all you can do Is keep those little kids alive. Know that about yourself and be okay with that. Don't compare yourself to other people who are raising children. You know, they've got eight kids and they're homeschooling and they are running a home business and they're serving the community.
That person has a turkey platter and may be borrowing other people's plates. Let's just be honest. If you have a smaller plate, you have a smaller capacity, you get overwhelmed AZ, maybe you're an HSP, maybe it's the time in your life, whatever, recognize the size of your plate and live off of that. Don't try to do more than God has designed for this time in your life.
Well, that's really good advice. Wise words from our guest, Kathy Lipp, about how to better manage your life, especially when you feel overwhelmed. This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. We've been getting some great encouragement and practical insights from Kathy and her co-author, Sherry Gregory. And they've been sharing insights from their book, Overwhelmed: How to Quiet the Chaos and Restore Your Sanity.
The title just says it all. And I'm sure there are many women and men who can relate to what we've shared last time and today. They're saying, this is me. I'm feeling overwhelmed and I don't know where to turn for help.
Well, that's why Focus on the Family is here for you. We want to equip you with the resources you need to have a strong and healthy family and experience God's grace and peace in your life. This book, Overwhelmed, can help you do that. We also have our team of caring Christian counselors. If you need to talk to someone and get godly advice about how to move forward in your life, so get in touch with us, ask to speak with a counselor, and if you can help us financially, that will allow us to reach out to many.
More hurting families in the days and months ahead. And, Jim, God is using Focus on the Family to make real impact. The generosity of our friends is helping change lives. We recently heard from a woman named Rose who said she thought she was prepared for motherhood at age 30, but she wrote this: The daily pressures left me overwhelmed until Focus on the Family helped redirect my heart back to Christ. You gave me encouragement on the hardest days and reminded me that I wasn't meant to parent on my own strength.
With the steady encouragement I find through Focus on the Family, our family is growing stronger and more connected. Kabam! I mean, that's what I love to hear. That's so encouraging. And I want to thank you, Rose, for sharing that comment.
It takes a moment to do that. I appreciate the fact that you took the time to let us know how we've impacted you. And most of all, praise God. It's to His credit. When you donate, you are doing ministry through your giving.
And our partnership is having a tremendous impact on the families, like we just heard.
So, if you can make a monthly pledge to Focus on the Family today, we want to say thank you by putting a copy of Kathy and Sherry's book right into your hands. Yeah, and if you're in a spot where you can't do a monthly pledge, but you can make a one-time gift, we're going to say thanks in the very same way. Your gift will really be beneficial to the ministry of Focus on the Family.
So, donate today, get the book, and if you need to, connect with one of our counseling team members. All when you call 800, the letter A in the word family, or check the Show notes for details. And coming up tomorrow, Counselor Eliza Healy offers some really great insights about parenting overwhelmed children. I also think it helps us as parents to not wrongly miss what they're actually feeling. And I think that comes up in all ages of kids where you might see what you think is.
Anger and it comes out as anger, but there's actually something deeper. Thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once more help you and your family thrive in Christ. Your church comes to you each week to fill their cup. But when the crowd leaves, who's filling yours?
That's exactly what I'm here to do with my new podcast from Focus on the Family. It's called Pastor to Pastor with Dave Stone. I'm so excited to help you navigate the unique challenges that pastors face in their ministry journey, both personally and professionally.
So, I invite you to listen and subscribe to Pastor to Pastor, wherever you get your podcasts. Mm-hmm.
