If you enjoy Focus on the Family content, you'll love Focus Live. It's a new station powered by Godcaster. Get the app today at Focusonthefamily.com/slash podcasts. Uh Get them involved in Bible to school. Get them involved in a youth group.
Get them involved in church. You know, really foster those Christian friends. Foster those Christian adults around them. And you've got a strong Christian that can light up the world. Today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, we're going to hear about a rather unique ministry that is bringing the gospel of Christ to young children in public school.
I'm John Fuller and thanks for joining us. You know, John, one of the most amazing things about Jesus was his love for children. There was something special between children and the Lord. And I think part of it is children are just innocent, right? They don't know.
They tell the truth. You're fat. You're skinny. I mean, kids just say the straightforward things. And I think the Lord saw that as just, you know, little truth tellers and their hearts are pure.
And I just think the Lord had a heart for children. In fact, in Matthew 18, he said, whoever humbles himself like this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven, which has often made me think. How do children think that the Lord would make that statement, right? If you act like a child, the kingdom of heaven is yours. And I think that's part of it, what I just said.
You know, unfortunately, I think it's easy for parents to underestimate the value of their children and their ability. To understand scripture and to apply biblical truth. And I think it starts at an early age. And our guest today is going to talk to us about how effective we can be as Christians, helping our own children, but also children in public school to recognize their spiritual bent. Yeah, it's really exciting to talk about this.
I think a lot of people don't know what you can really do in a public school.
So we're very pleased to have Corey Pennypacker in the studio with us. She's the CEO of Bible to School, and they equip communities to provide free Bible classes to elementary school kids during their public school day. And she's recently come out with a great book called Backpack Faith, Helping Your Child Live Confidently for Jesus in Public School. And of course, we'll have more details at the website. Corey, welcome to Focus on the Family.
Thank you for having me. Yeah, so let me ask you, that's legal? Yes, that is legal. How does it work? Sure.
It's called something called a release time court rulings. It's federal court rulings that say you can release, that's the word release, release kids from school, public school, for a religious class of their choice. It could be Muslim, could be Jewish. We are Bible to school with my organization. We are the non-denominational Christian arm of that.
And so, I mean, the Bible used to be a reader in school, you know, way back when. And they took it out. In the early 1900s, these release time rulings happened and they said, well, you know, kids aren't going to be getting religion anymore in school.
So let's give that to the community and they can release them. And there's three things that make it legal federally all across the country. And that is they have to be off-site. They have to repeat parental permission. And they can't cost a taxpayer any money.
And so those three things, when that happens, you can do that in all 50 states. No, that's terrific. And, you know, again, that's opt-in, as we would say.
So the parents have to allow their kids to go do this, but all 50 states are required by law to do this. What's the limiting factor? Why isn't every school doing this?
Well, I think it's a lot why I'm here today. People don't know about it. They don't know about it. And I appreciate you having me on because, yeah, you can do this. My organization has been doing this for over 45 years.
And so it's really something, and there's other organizations around the country that have been doing it for 80 years. But the U.S. Supreme, people ask me a lot, you know, was that ever challenged? You know, and in 1952, it was. And the U.S.
Supreme Court upheld it.
So it definitely is something you can do. Again, it has to be off-site, parental permission, and no tax dollars. Yeah, so the ACLU hasn't been able to get that out. of school. In terms of choices by the parents.
Right, it's something the parents want. Let me ask you this just to get this out of the way because it's intriguing to me. I've thought, oh, maybe after I retire from focus, I'll get one started in Colorado Springs. But I want to make sure everybody knows that that's something you can do in your community. And there's so many things like this.
If we just did them, every school would have that option. If Christians stepped up and said, you know what, I'll start that volunteer program and I'll go do that. How did that start for you? You started as a volunteer at Bible. I did.
I started as a volunteer.
Well, first of all, I was a children's ministry director. And so I, and when I left there, a friend asked me, You got to come see this. You got to come see it. And I went, and I'm like, wait a minute, I used to wait for kids to come to me. And now I get to go to the kids where they are in the middle of the week, in the middle of a school day, and it's no must, no fuss.
And the kids come. And what's amazing is that with What we do is half the kids have no church home. And I saw that with a little boy Gabriel He grabbed my heart. He was a little, a blonde, blue-eyed little boy, curly hair. He lived with his grandmother.
He was in third grade. And he was in my small group. And he came week after week. He did not know anything about God before he came. And one day he accepted Christ as his savior in the large group part.
And he comes barreling back to my table, big smile. And I said, Gabriel, tell me about that. You accept Christ as your savior. And he said, yes, I did. And I said, tell me about that.
And he says something I will never forget. I get choked up every time I talk about it. He said, I've always wanted to know how to get to heaven, but no one's ever told me. And he's in third grade. Third grade.
Oh, my goodness. Third grade. There's some 70, 80-year-olds that ask that question. It is a definite, they don't know. Probably every week in Bible to school, kids say, who's God?
I've never heard of him. Or they think Jesus is a swear word. It is definitely out of, I mean, 70% of the country doesn't go to church.
So these kids aren't hearing it anywhere. I mean, we think of Little House in the Prairie and all those. Those shows that used to have it all in there, it's definitely not, they're not seeing it anywhere. You know, Corey, again, I'm going to say that's our fault as the church, because again, the law allows us to do this, but not every school has this, and that's a shame. We should be, as the Christian community, we should be engaged.
There should be one or more, eight, ten. people here in Colorado Springs who are willing to do this for every school. I don't know how many schools, elementary schools. This is second to fifth grade, right? Yes.
What does that weekly, it's a weekly meeting, just talk us through what the typical week might look like. Yeah, the volunteers get together, they set up the room near a church, it's a church off-site within 10-minute walk or a 10-minute drive of the school. And then they go and get the kids. And the kids, it's usually over lunch and recess, they bring their lunch with them. And we use the time, right?
I mean, we started off, the small group leaders are like, hey, how was your week? You know, we were praying for your grandmother last week. How was she doing? They walk or they bust there. And then at the church, they're in small group tables.
And they come in, they have all their papers and their crinkling papers and all that. And then they have a large group lesson, 20 minutes of a large group lesson. And there's a think about it question.
So it's Jonah and the whale. And your think about it question is, you know, how does God give second chances? And so they teach Jonah. It's all hands-on. It gets inside of the belly of a whale.
And I mean, we do hands-on things like VBS, like it is science experiments. You act out the Bible story. And then they go into small group. And they say, you know, how did God give Jonah second chances? And then they say, well, how does God give you second chances?
And they do this, and then we go into a worship time.
So you have large groups, small group worship time. But that think about it question, that small group is very unique to Bible to school. In the country, there's really not a lot of programs that do it this way. And I really believe that the gospel is transmitted through relationships.
So you build those relationships every week. And so these kids have a safe place to ask spiritual questions. And that's what you were saying. That's what the church is about. I mean, we know.
I mean, the kids want to know three things. They want to know where did I come from? What's my purpose? And what happens after I die? I think every human being asks that question or those three questions and probably more.
In that context, the overall program is about 30 minutes then. An hour. An hour. One hour. One hour.
One hour. And that includes travel time. Yeah, so back and forth. And hopefully, it's a church that's nearby the school, obviously. Correct.
In that context, second to fifth grade, why is that the critical stage and what you concentrate on?
Well, I mean, Barnes says this: 63% of all Christians come to know Christ before the age of 14.
So it's like a 4 to 14 window, they say. And that's when their actual brains are developing their morals and values.
So you got Clay that you're working with. They are wide open. You were just talking about kids say everything on their mind.
Well, they are really processing this and learning this. And so it is the time for kids to accept Christ as their Savior. We have one little boy, he said, I never knew God made me. He just couldn't even believe that there was somebody who made him and created him. And he just blocked these kids, they blossom and light up when they find out that God made them, God loves them, God has a plan and purpose for their life, and Jesus Christ died for their sins and they can be in heaven with him someday.
And these are the things that kids need to know. I know that we were talking about depression and all that. There's a study called Hardwired to Connect. Dartmouth University did a study. It's a secular university that did this.
And they said that kids are hardwired to connect socially, spiritually. And that really helps them bring down that stress, bring down that anxiety. Kids are mind, body, and soul. And when you don't, you know, really get to process that spiritual questions, have a safe place to process that, then that really ups the anxiety. And they even said that if kids are in a religious program like Bible to school is, then they do better in school.
You know, we do something called Bring Your Bible to School, and it's the first Thursday of every October. I think a couple of years ago, we had over a million kids participate, which is terrific. And we want to see that number continue to grow. It's certainly, it's one day out of the school year. We want kids to do this every day.
And that's where you, it really connects and dovetails quite nicely. But we do the same thing working with Alliance Defending Freedom. They created a one-sheet that kids can download. Parents working with the kids can download to put in their backpack that day. And it happens.
We get the reports. You know, a school administrator or a teacher says, You know, you're not allowed to have that Bible on your table. And they'll pull out the ADF one-page legal sheet. And the way I've heard this go almost every time is they read it, the adult administrator or teacher reads it and goes, Oh, okay, yeah, it seems like you have the legal right to do that. And it's just that one day, and it's during recess or free time that those wonderful children sit and read the book of John with their friends.
And, you know, it just works out that way.
So we just need to do it as Christians, as Christian parents, encourage your kids to join. And people can go to the website and do that. Give us a call if you'd like. 800, the letter A in the word family. We'd be happy for you to learn more about Bring Your Bible to School Day.
And of course, we're enjoying the conversation so much because of that dovetail you mentioned, Jim, with Corey Pennypacker about her organization, Bible to School. And they're active, I think, in four states. And we'll get into that, I'm sure. We need all 50 states to go in here. Yes, I agree.
We'll have details. We'll have details about. That's my goal. We're going to have details. About how you can do that in Corey's organization as well at our website.
And the link is in the show notes. And you know, Corey, stories are so grabbing. You had a little girl who brought a notebook, I think, and she was judiciously taking notes. And you talked to her. What happened with that little girl?
Yeah, our program, like I said, is hands-on, and we don't actually have notebooks. But she brought hers and she was writing and writing and writing. And then she went to her small group and she was writing, writing, writing. And finally, her small group leader said, What are you doing? And she said, Well, my dad doesn't know who God is, and I want to be able to tell him.
So I love how these kids just want not you were saying about their faith. They want to know about God. They want to tell everybody they know about God. They bring their friends. And that's why I said 50 to 60 percent of the kids that come to Bible to school have no church home.
And I think that I really believe that parents want good things for their kids. And even if they're Christian or not Christian, and I know Dr. Dobson years ago said that, and I really grabbed onto that: that you know, this is a good thing they see, and they sign them up. And so that's why we are hitting a target market that nobody else is hitting. These kids are not going to go to a church, but we can link them to a church.
We had a parent survey done a couple years ago, and about 15% of our parents started going to church after they went to Bible to school. This year, I'm proud to announce that only God, 18% of the parents.
So it's going up. And I just really believe that this kind of program is an on-ramp to church attendance. Again, I want to say this because it's so obvious, and maybe somebody's just jumped into the conversation, but. Yeah, following the Lord brings incredible fruit. Love, joy, peace, goodness, kindness, mercy, long-suffering.
I mean, these are patience, I mean, wonderful attributes. And those who fight against that, it's ridiculous. And then those that. Enjoy the benefits of this fruit. It brings peace, God's shalom, to the home.
Corey, going back to family impact, you had indicated the story of Johnny really stood out because here's a boy who goes home and brings light and truth to his own family. Uh share that with us. Yeah, his mother told us that she was at the kitchen counter washing dishes, and she. Was really her home was struggling, and she looked up and she said, God help me. And just then, Johnny came right behind her and said, Mom, We need to go to church.
We need Jesus. Yeah. And she saw that as God's answer. They went to church. Not only did she reconnect to Lord herself, The rest of her family, mostly all of them, got saved.
Yeah. Yeah. That's kind of what it's all about. Yeah, she said he was relentless about going to church. We need to go to church.
He's a great kid. You know, my own wife, Jean, in second grade, ironically, kind of the same zone that you concentrate on, second graders to fifth graders. She was a second grader in Southern Cal. She went to release time and accepted Christ at that little. Event and never gave up.
I mean, she was with the Lord and has been with the Lord ever since, which is phenomenal. And that's really the goal, you know, to help these children, especially in today's culture, to have something that's eternal, something they can hold on to. And again, something that brings such positive benefits into their lives. Earlier, I mentioned some of the problems in schools, the political and cultural agendas, et cetera, that are causing a lot of Christians to pull out of public schools. And when I think about it for myself, the parents that are saying, what should we do, Johnny, Maria, whomever, they're kindergartners or third graders, and they're concerned about the ideological push.
More Christians are pulling their children out of school. What is your observation of that? You know, everybody has to make that decision for themselves because you don't want to gamble. with your children's hearts. But how do you see things?
Well, I often tell my daughter-in-laws this: that you know, they are the parents and they are the experts on their kids on whether they should be homeschooled or whether to go to Christian school or whether they go to public school. But in reality, 87% of all Christian parents send their kids to public school.
So, I get asked this question a lot: you know, what do you do? How do you protect your kids from harmful cultural elements in the school system, in the public school system? And I answer that question and I kind of flip it. And I say, How can you prepare your children? Because preparation is protection, and things are going to come down the pike.
I mean, you always should get on the school board, you always should be involved, know what your kids are learning, you should be involved. I was very involved, my husband and I were very involved public school parents. But if you're going to put them in public school, be involved and prepare them with the word of God. John 1:5, the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness has not over. Overcome it.
And so that whole preparation part of keeping the Word of God in front of them, get them involved in Bible to school, get them involved in a youth group, get them involved in church, you know, really foster those Christian friends, foster those Christian adults around them. And you've got a strong Christian that can light up the world. You know, Jim, as Corey's talking, I'm thinking about parents who might feel ill-equipped. To help their children be alight because they're overwhelmed. And we've tried to address that in the documentary and all the follow-up materials with Truth Rising.
Yeah, Truth Rising is a terrific documentary. It's free. You can go to the Focus website and watch it. It's about 90 minutes. But in addition to that, there's a four-part study done by John Stone Street at Colson Center, which is really helpful to address these core issues.
But the key thing in Truth Rising, what we're trying to do is encourage Christians to engage because that's the change. And that's where, you know, we highlight four or five courageous people like Jack Phillips, who was the baker up in Denver that was taken to task, taken to court, taken to the Supreme Court to prove his right as a Christian to create artwork that fit with his faith. And also Chloe Cole, a detransitioner who is suing Blue Cross because she never received a negative. statement from a doctor or psychiatrist that doing the Sexual transition would be harmful to her.
Now they're scrambling and they're backing up both in Europe and the United States to get out of doing that, the minor treatment of gender dysphoria. And man, that's a great thing that hospitals and others are beginning to not do that. But the point of the documentary is to encourage Christians to engage the culture and to be courageous. And what you're doing is kind of similar to that. And that's something, again, that we could all do in our towns, our cities, our little spots that we're in.
We can go to the elementary school and create a volunteer program and get kids introduced to scripture. And that's what's so exciting about this. Your story could have fit in Truth Rising as someone who was busy. Had their own lives, were doing their own thing. Their kids were grown, and you're done.
And yet, you said, No, I'm going to engage these second and to fifth graders and show them the gospel. And we're going to equip people to do this all over the country. How do we do that? How can somebody listening today say, Okay, I want to do this. I'm in Colorado, I'm in California, I'm wherever.
How would they go about doing this?
Well, they go to our website, BibleToschool.com. That's Bible the number two school.com. And we will. Help them find start a program. We will help them.
There's a four-step process.
So, is it like in a box kind of thing? You can help us do that. Yes, yes. We have something called a membership toolbox. And you become a member of Bible to school.
It's a four-step process to become a member. And mainly, what we do is help you build a team. We first help you build a team to become a member. And that team is going to help you, you know, find the location. It's going to help you with possible transportation.
Those people are leaders in your community are going to help you with finding recruiting volunteers, like pastors, and you're going to have business leaders that are going to help you with funding.
So we really make it as easy as possible for you. Get that team together, and then we have all the tools for you on that toolbox. We have over 300 tools. We have all the curriculum you need. We have live.
Coaching for you. And I wish I had live coaching when I started. We were going through it. But live coaching, and we have a website for them as well.
So anything as you call it, plug and play, you can do this. And we make it as easy as possible for that to happen. Yeah. You know, for pastors, I know we have many pastors who listen, and we have an outreach for pastors as well to help their families, to help their congregations. What's the benefit for pastors engaging Bible to school?
Well, when you ever talk about people coming to your church, it's always, well, somebody invited me, somebody invited me.
Well, let me tell you, when you get involved in Bible to school, you invite those children to your church. They're like, oh, yeah, I'll come. There's VBS on ramp there. Just come and be in our church. It gets the kids in the church, first of all.
And second of all, it exposes them to other Christians that say, come visit me in my church. And that's how kids get to church. But that's how it works. That's why I call it an on-ramp to church attendance. And again, you're learning how to connect with the community.
When a church partners with a local school, people pay attention. Yeah. And they really make a difference in the community. If you want to make a difference in your community, you go to the public school mission field, and that's right in your hometown. Yeah.
I'm really pleased, Jim, that our church had an opportunity through a variety of circumstances to meet at a local school. And our team, there was a core team of people that really engaged with the school. They made a job of reaching out to the school administrators and the faculty and just supporting and trying to be a light for Christ in that way. And you're encouraging all of us to look for opportunities to do that. And the other thing is that the churches work together.
We're non-denominational, so it's so cool, the body of Christ and all denominations working together for the kids. Let's end with Colson's story. You had a student, Coulson. What happened with his little observation about Bible to school? Coulson went through our program and actually even led his friends to Christ, but he got into middle school and we interviewed him and he started his own Bible hour in his middle school during he was amazing.
He had almost 90 kids. It was a worship service. He got everybody involved. And he said, To me, he said, You know, I always thought before Bible school, I didn't know. I always thought school was school and church was church.
And I realized I can live my faith all week long. Yeah. And that really is what we're trying to teach kids. Corey, and that's right at the heart of the message. I think the culture that doesn't believe wants to silence us into no action.
That what you believe is private, do it at home. Just don't bring it into the public square. And they're happy with that. But that's not what the Lord says. No.
He says, take the gospel to every end of the earth, right?
So every corner.
So that's our charge. And so we need to be careful not to take the bait of being comfortable by being silent. And you do what you do, and I'll do what I do. That's what's so great about Coulson and that story. Let's take this into public school.
It's already gone through the courts. It's completely legal. And let's help kids better understand how they were made and in whose image they were made. Isn't that a great opportunity? Yes.
And you could be on the front lines of watching kids' lives change and their families' lives. That's change. It's a beautiful thing. You've said it so well. Bible to school, get engaged.
If your community, and there's only four states that they're in right now, so if you're in a state that's not doing it, a city that's not doing it, do it. Nobody else is going to step up.
So why not get involved? And let's see all 50 states have a program like this where you can take kids off the property of the school, take them to a local church, hopefully, spend an hour with them talking about the Lord, and then get those little tykes back to school. I think it's wonderful. And what a wonderful way for us who are older, already done the parenting thing, to engage the culture and help it right itself because of spiritual awakening. And that's the way to do it.
So get in touch with us. Corey, thanks for being with us. It's a pleasure to be here. Thank you. It's incredible what God is able to do when we are faithful to serve him and share his good news message, especially with children.
Yeah, and Corey's organization, Bible to School, is really remarkable. As an outreach, we're going to have all the details available at our website. Also, let me say: if you're interested in learning more about how you can join the fight for our children in public schools, for a gift of any amount, we're offering Corey's brand new book, Backpack Faith: Helping Your Child Live Confidently for Jesus in Public School. This is essential reading for parents and grandparents who want to equip their children and grandchildren to be salt and light in a dark culture. This book helps you to do that as a parent or a loved one.
And when you get the book from Focus on the Family, your dollars aren't going to Amazon or pay shareholders. It's all going back to equip parents, help marriages, and Families across the country. In the past year alone, we've equipped 1.8 million families to thrive in Christ. I'm very proud of that. And we've helped 173,000 people make decisions for Christ.
That's so wonderful. It is. And that's generational impact for the kingdom of God. And we're excited to have you partner with us as we equip more families every single year. Yeah, so join the support team today when you call 800 the letter A and the word family, or donate and get Corey's book, Backpack Faith, and find other help for your family at our website.
And the link is in the show notes. Uh And coming up next time, practical help for wives and moms who are feeling a bit overwhelmed.
Somewhere in there, I feel my anxiety level dialing down, and I get to this point that feels so unfamiliar, and I go, oh, that's what peace feels like. Oh, this is what freedom feels like. And I realize A lot of this, not all of it, but a lot of this overwhelm I have done to myself. I have wrought on myself. Thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.
I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ. If you enjoy Focus on the Family content, you'll love Focus Live. It's a new station powered by Godcaster. Get the app today at focusonthefamily.com/slash podcasts.
