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That's focusonthefamily.com/slash get help. And the number one influence is how the parents are living. And again, we already knew this by reading Deuteronomy when God says, you know, speak it all day, you know, write it on your doorframes as you walk, as you lie down. Share this with your children. And so it's so true, and you're so right.
None of us are going to be perfect. I don't know how many times I have apologized to my children and asked for their forgiveness. Because we mess up, but that's a great opportunity for them to see: no, the Lord is real. That's Dr. Holly Brand, and she joins us today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.
Thank you for joining us. I'm John Fuller. John, here's a headline: pop culture is everywhere. Kind of like duh, but I mean, it's in our face a lot, and so often it clashes with the word of God, especially for us as Christians. I mean, going to Vegas for a conference or something, you're not going to gamble, but you go to Vegas.
I mean, it's just all over the place. Gene has said to me, Yeah, we're never going here again. Even the airport at Vegas is like billboards, especially if you have young boys. I remember those days, we'd be diving to cover the kids' eyes, you know, because it's just so in your face. And mom and dad, that's part of our responsibility is to raise up our children in a way that they can form strong faith.
And how do we set the kind of the developmental seats to be able to do that and to help them be in the world but not of the world, right? Small, intentional choices in parenting can have a lifelong impact. I think we're seeing that with our kids. I'm sure, John, you're seeing that with yours. And, you know, today we have a special guest who's written a great little work book.
Book, Christ and Culture 2.0. And she is a professor at a Christian university and deals with the young culture every day. And so I'm looking forward to this discussion. I am too, Jim. And Dr.
Holly Brand has served as professor of psychology at Missouri Baptist University in St. Louis, where she was honored with the MBU Distinguished Professor Award. She specializes in child, adolescent, and adult development. But perhaps more importantly, she's married to Todd and they have three older children. And that book that you mentioned, Jim, is really terrific.
Christ and Culture 2.0. Learn more about it and our guests at our website. We've got the links in the show notes. Holly, welcome to Focus on the Family.
Well, thank you, Jim and John. You know that I love all things focus on the family, so this is truly an honor. What's so fun is you're like a super fan. You say you listen to the program every day. Every day.
We love that. We do. And you do it on the app, which is convenient. Why don't more people do it on the app, Jim? That was a good question you asked.
Awesome. Yeah, it's really good. You got access to everything there at the app.
So you're in the middle of being an observer of the cultural clash because you're on a college campus every day and you're hearing 18, 19-year-olds coming into your classroom and talking about stuff. You're a PhD in psychology, so you have that great background to better understand how people think and what wires the human brain. In that context, What are you seeing on a college campus that may be different today than it was 20 years ago? Oh, absolutely.
So I just finished my 25th year, which blows my mind. And I would say the increase in anxiety. And fear. and worry and despair even. And even Over things that are, you know, what we would consider just daily challenges, daily stress.
Normal stuff. Yeah, normal stuff. Normal dailiness. Their ability to cope is really limited. And so that's a big thing that I've seen over 25 years.
I've also seen the increase of moral relativism.
So you get to choose what's right for you, and I get to choose what's right for me, and there's no understanding of absolute truth. I think the last data that I saw is that about 4% of people have. A belief in absolute truth, which is startling. And so, if you don't have that foundation of truth, The world's a scary place. The world is a scary place anyway.
But they're really struggling, and this is even on a Christian campus.
So, Holly, how did this workbook come about?
Okay, so. maybe like a lot of people. I became really alert to the cultural rot when I became a parent, especially the parent of a little boy. And so a little bit of backstory. Tanner would have been about three, so it would have been about 2006, and it's a Saturday afternoon, and we're watching Cardinals baseball.
And all of a sudden commercial break. There was a Company back then who was using basically soft porn to sell their product, and this commercial comes on, and it's a strip tease. And Tanner's little three-year-old eyes were like saucers, and I'm like, and I'm, you know, scrambling for the remote, and I turn it off, and then I got. Mad, like mama bear mad. Like, who thinks it's okay on a Saturday afternoon to put this kind of content in front of my child?
And so, a couple years later, we enroll our children in a local Christian school, which is a wonderful Christian school, but even I discovered Christian schools are not immune from cultural influence. And so I would see things there too, and I just continued to complain about it. And at that time, I was president of the school board at the school. And Todd, right?
So you guys know my wonderful Todd. And he looked at me one day as I was complaining, and he said, You're the president of the school board, do something about it. It sounds just like Todd. And I was like, Well, I still didn't know what to do. And then came the phone call.
It's always the phone call.
So a year or so later, I get a phone call from a dad of a third grade girl at our school. And so this little girl was describing the wedding she had gone to for two women. And the dad, who's a strong believer, strong Christian man, he said on the phone to me. I was so taken aback, I didn't know what to say and I didn't say anything. And he said, I've been kicking myself for 24 hours.
So he said, My question to you as President of the School Board, how far is our school willing to go on matters of the culture? Yeah. I thanked him. I hung up. And I said, okay, Lord.
And as fast as my hand would write, 36 topics just came pouring out. And that was the foundation of Christ in culture. And then, fast forward, about eight years later, and I get the phone call. Would you consider doing a second edition and include gender identity in the workbook? And again, I love the style of the workbook because this is great for parents to sit down and go through.
What would you say the target age range is for the workbook? Great question.
So I originally wrote it to use as curriculum in our children's Christian school. And so at the time, we decided to start it in third grade, so around the age of nine, eight to nine. And if you look at some of the topics, such as pornography, you might say, oh, that seems early.
Well, if you understand that the average age of exposure to pornography is eight. We have to get into these kids with truth so that they can be able to discern the cultural rot. And so, actually, first and second graders are exposed to the content as well. They just don't have their own copy and they remove some of the heavier topics really early. Yeah, in that regard, it's like elementary school age to sit down and do this as a Bible study with them.
But in there, you also talk about three pillars upon which our children's lives should be built. Let's hit those three pillars. We got it.
So, the first five years of life. authority, respect for authority, legitimate sources of authority.
So primarily God and parents, because there is this concept called the two year old teenager.
So parents, we panic when our kids become teenagers like, oh, teenage rebellion, here it comes. Teenage rebellion is not normal human development, and it's not inevitable. And so that rebellious teenager was a rebellious two-year-old who was not properly disciplined because the word discipline means to teach three things self-control, Character and acceptable behavior.
Well, most of us focus on the acceptable behavior part, and we miss the heart of the child. And so, if you can get proper respect for authority by the age of five, You've got a good foundation. And so then the next pillar between really 6 and 12, and you don't wait until 6 to start this, but you really emphasize it: character. Who are you when no one's looking doing the right thing because it's the right thing to do? And what comes after age 12 is obviously the teen years.
And they are going to be faced with so many character decisions that you and I can't make for them. My kids have never invited me on one of their dates. Isn't that rude? You're not fun. You've just been bummed out.
You are fun. I'm like, I'm fun. I don't get to go on their dates for them.
So they're going to be faced with character decisions in the area of sexuality. To cheat or not to cheat, to use AI on my homework, to lie or not to lie. I mean, it's all day, every day, character decisions. And so if they don't have the foundation of character development before the teen years, Oh. Yeah.
Teen years. And that's good. I want to make a point here because I was going to wait till later, but I think this is a good spot. And we still have the third pillar. Go ahead and finish the third pillar.
That's good.
So the third pillar during the teen years is identity development. Answering the question, who am I? Because aging is just an accumulation of days. It's literally one day on top of the next day. Hello, you're 92.
And so if you don't have your identity solidly secure by the time you hit age 20, Then everything that builds from there is hindered. Boy, no, in that context, that takes me to the competition for identity. I mean, the culture is all about. You know, absorb this identity, be this identity. Absolutely.
Let's just jump into that a little deeper. I mean, when you're talking about identity for kids, I think some parents, Holly, would be thinking, How do I do that? I got a day job, too.
Okay. It's so much simpler than we think. And it's in the daily communication.
So. I've been speaking and teaching and writing for twenty five, thirty years now, and I am convinced That the root cause of virtually every problem that every human has is lack of identity in Jesus. I really, really believe that. And so there are two basic types of identity. The first is basic, basic identity.
You are a child created in the image of God. You are of great worth, of great value, and that will never change. The other is role identity that really gets developed and focused on during the teen years. But we miss the basic identity. And so many kids are left to wonder: well, who am I?
And then we find it in our role identity. For example, I am Mrs. Todd Brand. 'Kay. big part of my identity.
Todd had a heart attack and almost died a few months ago. Who would I have been if he had passed away? If he dies before me, I'll no longer be Mrs. Todd Brand. If I have my identity tied to something that is changeable, I'm in big trouble.
So, from the I you asked how to build this in because we have day jobs. When my kids were babies, every time I would change their diaper, I would pretty much share the gospel. Yeah, I mean, like, might as well start in. And I would just tell them: you are a child created in the image of God. You are precious.
You are so loved. You are valuable. And see, that will never change. And if you can get a child to the teen years with that solid basic identity. They can see through the lies of the culture.
For example, number one reason that teenage girls give for having sex during the teen years. They want to feel loved. Mm-hmm. What a perverted idea of love It promises so much but delivers. literally nothing.
And there's a scripture, it's in uh Proverbs twenty-seven, seven. A satisfied soul loathes the honeycomb But to a hungry soul, every bitter thing is sweet. Let's unpack that. Because I was that hungry soul. I was that hungry twenty year old approval seeking girl looking for love and affection through relationships.
I was her.
So a satisfied soul who knows who they are. Can see right through that flattering tongue who just wants to use them. But to a hungry soul who's hungry for love and affection and attention. What will ultimately cause her bitter pain seems sweet at the time. And so, if you know who you are, I am, who I am says I am, if you know that going into the teen years.
It's so much easier to say no, and if you ha it takes so much character to say no, it takes No character to say yes to peer pressure.
So I am just convinced that if we could get the basic identity solid. And cemented by the time the teen years hit, then you know who you are, then you can work on role identity. Who do I want in a relationship? Who do I want to marry? What do I want to do as a vocation?
What am I good at? You know, those things build on top of the basics. Holly, what I was aiming for is this. First of all, parents have to live it well, live their Christian faith well to invite their children into that journey. Absolutely.
And if, you know, kids are so good at sniffing hypocrisy huge, especially during the DNA. Oh, my goodness. I mean, it's like, wow.
So you need to be mindful of that. If you're not living the faith.
Well It doesn't have to be perfect. And when it's not, apologize to your kids. When they see an anger outburst or you say something you shouldn't have said because somebody cut you off, whatever. You need to be able to say, man, that was not healthy and that wasn't honoring to the Lord. I'm sorry.
And let them hear you do that. Absolutely. That gives them then that basis. But speak to the importance of being authentic as an adult, as a parent, so your kids can see that. Oh, it's huge.
Some of my favorite research in neurology comes from the National Institute for Mental Health and Dr. Jay Gied, and so he has done all kinds of MRI studies on children's and teens' brains. And w shocker. Wouldn't you know that the number one influence on how to shape a teenager's brain and his or her mind is? Parental example.
And I mean, we already knew that, right? All we had to do was reduce. But that's a high influence. That's the number one influence. Their brains are.
Truly sponges, and the number one influence is how the parents are living. And again, we already knew this by reading Deuteronomy when God says, you know, speak it all day, you know, write it on your door frames as you walk, as you lie down. Share this with your children. And so it's so true. And you're so right.
None of us are going to be perfect. I don't know how many times I have apologized to my children and asked for their forgiveness because we mess up. But that's a great opportunity for them to see: no, the Lord is real and He does redeem, and we don't have to be canceled. We get a second do-over and a third and a fourth. Yeah.
Let me go back to something you mentioned, which you You know, I think this is a grave mistake that we make in Christian parenting, but it is this overemphasis on behavior. Behavior is important, it really is important, but The heart is far more important. And how to, and I think this is Again, critically important. Yes. How do we address the heart?
That drives the right behavior and make sure the child, when they hear, don't do that, it doesn't feel like you're rejecting the child. Yes. Which is how they interpret it. And it takes a little adult thought to make sure you're doing this well. But you've got to separate those two things and go after the heart at it.
Absolutely. And that is all over this book. If we miss the heart, we end up with little whitewashed tombs.
So Jesus talked about that. Think about what's inside a gleaming, beautiful tomb. dead, rotting. Flesh and bones, right? Yuck.
And so we just focus on the outer behavior. We can end up with kids, again, who have the character of, well, it's okay as long as I don't get caught. I'll just learn to whop my sister when mom's not around. We have to go for the heart.
So, when Todd and I first became parents, I read Ted Tripp's book, Shepherding a Child's Heart. Highly recommend. And I am the type of personality I just want the top 10 ways to produce great kids. You know, give me like I've heard you say before, give me the formula, and I'll just, you know. Put out some great kids.
And so I'm reading this book, and he's talking about: well, you got to get to the heart. If you change the heart, Behavior follows. And this is where psychology shines, my favorite part of psychology. Behavior is just an extension of what's going on up here.
So God's Word is all over this. Proverbs twenty three seven, As a man thinks in his heart, so is he. Philippians 4:8, think about things that are true and right and holy and pure, and etc. And so that's what you start with. Child, what were you thinking when you did that?
Let's talk about how to change your thinking and your behavior will follow. That's really good. It's so important.
So often four-year-olds weren't thinking, they were just doing, right? Exactly.
So there's such a great element of intentionality to what you're talking about. But as you were talking about your experience with cancer, I thought, well, this is where unintentionally our kids are watching us. And that leads to tech and screens and discernment because. I remember a time when I was thinking, I'm expecting my child to do something that I'm not even doing.
So, you know what? At nine o'clock, we're just going to put the phones away. Mom has said that we should get away from the screens at 9 p.m.
So I'm not going to make you do it, I'm going to do it. And when you come down to check, I'm going to be off my phone. Right. But this is hard in that whole area of screens and tech and discernment because so much is flooding them. How do we sh set the example as parents?
And then how do we get to their heart on this? You grab the why. Kids are so much more likely to follow your lead if they know the why behind it.
So that's the whole heart of this book is. What's the why why does God Put boundaries on us. Why do I, as a parent, put boundaries in your screen time? Because here's all the detriment that occurs if we don't. Here's all the blessing that occurs if we do.
And so we're so good at telling kids: no, don't do that. No, don't eat that, don't do that, don't go there. No, you can't do that, don't watch that. And we never tell them what they can say yes to. And so they have to hear God puts boundaries on our behavior.
Because it protects our hearts, it protects our minds, it protects our bodies. You look at the average teen, they don't get nearly enough sleep. Their stress goes through the roof just because they're on their screens late into the night. That's a simple reason. We're going to put our screens away because God has given us a purpose, and tomorrow when we get up, He's got work for us to do, and we need to be well rested.
Simple.
So, yeah, just getting the why behind what we do. And let me, right at the end here, let me come back and address a couple of things that we touched on lightly that I think parents really need to catch. One is, you said. We so often, and I can remember Trent and Troy doing that. What do you want to be when you grow up?
And they, you know, Troy, fireman, policeman. He wanted all the first responder jobs. I love it. But this idea of who do you want to be? When you grow up.
I, you know, in hindsight, I don't know if I spent ample time. I touched on it, but probably not in the same way of vocation.
So how do we as parents get that as the bullseye, not the what do you want to do or what do you want to be, but who do you want to be? It's such a brilliant question. I think so too, and it really shifts the focus. And I think it goes back to that basic identity. You are a child created in the image of God.
He has given you gifts, and talents, and abilities. To love and serve him, and to love and serve others. That's our whole purpose. And so, if you can reinforce that in, say, the first 10 years of life, and without even asking them, what do you want to be when you grow up? What you want to be will flow from who you already are.
And so, you know, so many, I get so many college students, they have no idea what they're good at. They don't know their personality types. They don't know any of their gifts. They say, I'm not good at anything, which is a big fat lie. And so then you spend, there's the.
Children's second decade figuring out, okay, this is what you're really good at. God's given you a gift of speaking. I remember your story of your mom's friend telling you that you have diarrhea of the mouth. You remember that. I remember that.
I shouldn't have said that. And so, look at what happened. I'm in a microphone every day. Exactly.
So then we take 14-year-old little Jimmy and we say, God's given you the ability to speak and to communicate. I wonder if he might use that in your vocation. And it just flowed. Yeah, I didn't see that coming. The gift of Gab, I guess.
But no, I get it. Holly, right here at the end, your son struggled with questions about God's goodness. This is so common. I love the honesty that he was portraying and how you describe it in the workbook. But in that context, what happened and how did it become a lesson for them?
Yeah, absolutely.
So, when our middle child, Walker, was 16, one of his friends at school Committed suicide. And Walker was the last person that he communicated with. They were texting back and forth, and this young man had wrecked the car, and he was afraid of. You know, really getting into trouble. And just in that emotional moment, he made obviously a permanent decision.
And so Walker really was struggling with his faith. He's like, Mom, is any of it real? I mean, it's God. who he says he is, is he good, is all of these questions. And Todd and I just kinda had to stand back and and pray.
You know, Walker needed to do his own deep dive, and he did. And, you know, we provided him with resources. One of my all-time favorite broadcasts was with Jay Warner Wallace, who did, you know, the cold case. Yeah. And so I gave Walker his book, you know, Person of Interest, and said, Bud, you're going to have to do your deep dive.
And he did for the next year. I mean, he talked to counselors at school. He talked to his Bible teacher at school. He listened to podcasts. He read.
He prayed. He reached out. A year later he emerged as Billy Graham Jr. I mean, he is an evangelist. He knows.
What he believes and why he believes it. And it wasn't just an emotional. Outcome. It was a solid heart change, mind change. I get it.
He is who he says he is, and he'll tell anybody who listens. No, it's so good. You know, we did a program with Lee Strobel about talking to your teens about Jesus, and he. Mentioned something very powerful, and I talked to Trent and Troy, my sons, about it, and it was. If you could ask God one question and he would have to answer it.
What would the question be? And of course, Trent, my scientist, stop, because let me think about that. And we're eating lunch together.
So he thinks for like 10 minutes. And then he comes back around and goes, I think I'd want to know from God What is that thing we're not seeing, the element that allowed you to create the universe that we don't understand? That's the scientist. That is the scientist. And I turn to Troy and Troy goes, I think I'd like to know why we suffer.
And that's the writer. That's Troy the writer. And, you know, just so much of what you're saying is from the heart. Right. This is who we are.
And then how do we shape that as parents to guide them to a belief in Christ and then a life with Christ. Absolutely. And aiming at the heart. And I feel so bad for that story of that boy that took his life because he. He made some mistakes, and those are going to happen.
But parents, my goodness, it's just a car. It's just whatever.
So, Holly, again, thank you for being with us. Thank you so much. It's my pleasure. And let me turn to you, our listener. Focus on the Family is here for you.
I hope you hear my heart in that. We want to equip you with all that you need to raise the next generation of Christ followers. We have lots of great resources to help you in that journey. Holly's book being one of them. Christ and Culture 2.0 is the perfect place to start.
When you give a gift of any amount, we'll send you a copy as our way of saying thank you for supporting the ministry here at Focus on the Family. Your continued prayers and financial support allow us to provide much-needed help to individuals and families. Over the past 12 months, Focus helped inspire and equip more than 750,000 people to work toward promoting biblical and pro-family values in the culture through civic engagement. Imagine the impact you can have. We couldn't do this ministry without you, so please give a gift today.
Donate today and Jim, I'll say this. Your podcast, Refocus with Jim Daly, does this very thing that we've been talking about today. You bring conversations about engaging the culture vibrantly and actively with truth and grace. Check out Refocus with Jim Daly.
So donate today to the Ministry of Focus on the Family. Request your copy of the book by Dr. Holly Brand, Christ and Culture 2.0. When you call 800, the letter A in the word family, or we've got further details in the show notes. And thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.
I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once more help you and your family thrive in Christ. Chat GPT and AI can offer you ideas and attempt to give you answers, but it can't listen with compassion, pray with you, or guide you with wisdom shaped by faith. When life feels overwhelming, real human connection matters. At Focus on the Family, we believe in the power of professional help and biblical wisdom. That's why we offer a free confidential consultation with a caring Christian counselor to walk with you through life's struggles.
Whether you're navigating challenges in marriage, parenting, anxiety, grief, or something else, our counselors are here to help. If you're hurting, don't wait. Hope is real and healing begins with a conversation. Request your free confidential consultation today. Call 1-800-8-0-1.
Family. That's 1-800-232-6459 or visit focusonthefamily.com slash get help. That's focusonthefamily.com slash get help.
