And the belief was that you were to be submissive. to authority over you unless that authority usurped the higher law. And they believe that's what occurred, and you see that in the language of the Declaration of Independence. And that really was the motivation. uh throughout the Revolutionary War.
This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. We're looking forward to celebrating our nation's 250th anniversary this weekend and to commemorate this really foundational moment in our country's history, we're joined today by historian Rod Gregg. who shares about the incredible faith of George Washington and other leaders in the Revolutionary War. Thanks for joining us. I'm John Fuller.
John, I love reflecting on how God's hand of providence has been on this nation from the very beginning. And Independence Day is a great time for us to remember all that he's done for this country. Of course, we know that George Washington and the members of the Continental Congress were fallible people. We are all fallible. We're all sinners saved by grace, and we get that.
But God certainly used their faith and courage in extraordinary ways, and we can learn a lot from them. Our guest today is historian Rod Gregg, as you'd mention. And he's dedicated a lot of his time studying the Revolutionary War and the faith of the founders. And I'm looking forward to this discussion. I am too.
Rod is an award-winning author of more than 20 books. He has spoken at many, many different venues. He's been on national TV shows, sharing from his wealth of expertise. He and his wife have seven children and 14 grandchildren. Rod, welcome back.
Thank you. Good to be here.
So good to have you. Tell me, in your words, why is it important for us to talk about George Washington's faith and the influence that he had on the American Revolution?
So often in today's lexicon, when we raise a founding father, good point, people jump on all the bad points. But what was so unique about Washington and his commitment?
Well, to me, I think what's distinctive about him the most in terms of faith is that he was really representative. in the sense that um He was motivated and directed by his personal faith, and that was really typical of what it was like in colonial America. The Judeo-Christian worldview was really the bedrock foundation. And it really affected everything. American law, culture, government in Washington really was more typical of his day than you would think that you'd see in any other era.
He seemed to express in his writings, in his diary, etc., just how much faith meant to the country and that the events of the revolution were evidence of why all Americans should have faith. And in fact, he said this in one of those writings. I am sure there never was a people who had more reason to acknowledge a divine interposition in their affairs than those of the United States. And I should be pained to believe that they have forgotten that agency which was so often manifested during our revolution. I mean, that's pretty straightforward, right?
Right. And he uses the phrase throughout his writings, which were voluminous. the hand of providence, by the hand of providence, through the hand of providence, the interpositioning of providence. He uses that a lot, and that's where the title in the book comes from. But Washington was a very reserved man.
He was a low church Anglican. And uh he really uh was one, his family said, who wanted to express his faith more by action than by words, although he wrote a lot and expressed a lot of his faith. in his writings. uh in his leadership During the Revolutionary War, as general and as commanding general of the Continental Army and all the armies, his particular army that he led himself. He, um Encouraged his troops to follow the, what he called, the character of a Christian.
Their duties. He was very serious about appointing chaplains and chaplains who were serious about their faith. He, um took a position that after defeats he would call for a time of reflection and worship and repentance. And what you saw there was In Washington's influence and how he made sure that his troops treated loyalists that were near his army. He uh treated them respectfully and and did not mistreat them and that really attracted them.
to the patriot cause, particularly in contrast to the British, uh who so often would fall into um this harsh brutal form of warfare that kind of moved people away from them. And when you look at the population. Americans at the time of the Revolution was really much thirds. A third Patriot, a third loyalist, and a third not sure which way to go. And that third really made a difference.
And because of the, in many ways, I think the conduct of the British, conduct of Washington's army, in contrast, that third moved over to the Patriot side, and that made a big difference. Yeah, I'm sure. You know, Washington often referred to Providence as playing a key role. And, you know, sometimes historians debate, you know, were they uh people of true faith, a Christian faith, or people of just a greater God, you know, not really narrowing it to Jesus, basically. To speak to Washington's understanding that way, and the language of the day, when they talk about Providence and divinity and a great God, they're still pointing to the God that we believe in today.
Right, the God of the Bible. And Washington's family were insistent that his faith was genuine and deep. and uh serious He not only provided leadership in his church, but in the community he would privately fast at times. And uh his faith um All the evidence shows to it being genuine. And he spoke often of providence of God working in this time of revolution.
When he resigned his commission, at the end of the war. Then before Congress. It was a very moving, dramatic scene, a lot of Tears and Washington, who was very stoic about things like that, really struggled to keep his feelings in, but he made the point of saying again that the American victory and independence came from what he called the interposition of Providence, and also that he trusted the future of this new nation in the hands of God. Aaron Powell, Jr.: When you look at Yorktown as an example of that Providence, as he saw it, what happened in Yorktown in the battle and how did Washington translate that as a divine intervention?
Well, you really have a situation of the proverbial David and Goliath. with the Americans and facing the the the strongest military force on the face of the earth at the time. And uh European leaders didn't expect this revolution to last very long. And there are many times where they thought, well, now it's over. Seventeen seventy seven the British captured um Philadelphia, the capital, and occupied it.
And European leaders thought, well, that's all over. And so you see that throughout the war. And it really is remarkable. We can't know how that happened, but Washington was certain that it was Providence that was intervening. And at Yorktown, Washington's army was.
In New York, surrounding the British. It had gone from a point where the British really controlled everything to a point where the British were on the defensive. French sent a French army. uh to bolster Washington's troops, and then he learned they were sending the French Navy. And Washington and the French Army made this rapid, remarkable march from New York to Virginia, aided by the French Navy, and bottled up.
The army. The British had already, a few years earlier at the Battle of Saratoga, lost an army of 6,000 troops to the Americans, and here they were now. losing an army of 7,000. They were surrounded, they were under siege, and they had to surrender. And so you see this again and again, this David Goliath thing and this turnaround in the war that really was remarkable.
At the base of all that was really the American world view. And the American world view was Judeo-Christian, the Biblical worldview. It affected and shaped everything in the way that Americans thought and acted and responded to all of this. And so it's a remarkable Revolution. When you think about it in contrast, say, to the French Revolution that occurred at the same time, where it was really a bloody revolution against all authority, even Christianity.
But The American Revolution was a revolution of law. In the fact that Americans believed that Parliament and later they believed the King as well were usurping God-given or inalienable rights. And so it's no accident, the Declaration of Independence said that all men are created equal and endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable God-given rights, including life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. That's what they were motivated to fight for, not taxes. But that.
Let me ask you in that regard, when you look at freedom of religion, which seems to be under assault today, it's like we've forgotten our way and what our founding was about. Where did the freedom of religion originate, and why do we often refer to that as the most core freedom?
Well, the founding of the 13 English colonies occurred in a remarkable time and place, in the wake of what was called the English. A Reformation, where there was an explosion of faith in England that spread across the nation in a great revival. And in that time and place, at that moment, In time, a very narrow moment, that's when the English people spilled into the American colonies. And you had a real diversity of faith. You had the Puritans in New England, the Baptists in Rhode Island, the Dutch Reformed in New York.
You had the Quakers in Pennsylvania, the Presbyterians in New Jersey and Delaware, and the Catholics in Maryland. You had Jewish communities in New York, Philadelphia, and Charleston. And then you had the Anglicans in Virginia, the Carolinas, and Georgia.
So a lot of diversity, but all people of the book. And so that was the foundation of American culture and law and government. And so when this revolution occurred, it really was a revolution of law where the American people believed that through a series of actions, the British Parliament and later the King were attempting to usurp what was known then as the higher law. And the belief was that you were to be submissive. to authority over you unless that authority usurped the higher law.
And they believe that's what occurred, and you see that in the language of the Declaration of Independence. And that really was the motivation throughout the Revolutionary War. You know, Rod, you mentioned in the book Washington's perspective on America's sacred calling as a nation, and I want you to elaborate on that. But also, when you look at that idea of exceptionalism, I think this kind of fits in that area where there seems to be the founding of this country, the Revolutionary War. There is a spiritual overtone to it all.
And again, while I've traveled, people have said America has stood as that beacon of freedom. If we lose America, we lose everything because we try imperfectly to stand in that position of freedom through all different kinds of administrations and philosophies and beliefs. But I think at the core, America Has always stood for that idea of freedom, democracy, etc., imperfectly as it does. But speak to that. Understanding that Washington seemed to have already that this was an exceptional nation because of its connection to God and then its future.
was pretty bright if we stood on the right values.
Well, and that is how, there's a good summary of what he believed, but again, he was really representative of the general worldview of the American people. And um When you look at the Continental Congress, like you look at the American people at that time, you saw, in terms of faith, you saw those who Had little or none. You had the nominal, and you had the people who were of a strong faith. Aside from where they were personally, there was this underlying foundation, this Judeo-Christian worldview, and those values and those principles. John Adams said again about those signers and those who drafted the Declaration of Independence, and he said that that beautiful group of young men were reunited only by one thing, and that was.
quote, the general principles of Christianity.
So If you look at how, for instance, Congress provided leadership For that drive for independence and that drive for freedom. Congress Throughout the war, twice a year, called for days of prayer, fasting, and humiliation. That was what they called it. They actually had the Audacity after some defeats to call on the American people to repent of their sins. And after victories, they would call for times of worship.
when they wanted to put out A message to the American people, they would send it to two places, and this included the Declaration of Independence. They would send it to newspapers, and they would send it to the churches. And that's why it's a document that's really laced with the language of faith. Throughout that. And if you think about it, You know, the U.S.
Constitution is a rule book. Rule books don't have philosophy in them. They are the rules. The mission statement for America was the Declaration of Independence.
So the Declaration of Independence gave you the mission statement, the why, the motivation, the explanation. And then the Constitution is the rule book. Yeah, that is really good to think of it that way. Rod, we have to talk about the national sin, slavery, and what was going on at the time. And so often today, we place our current cultural perspective Our modern glasses on the view of those then.
Although I do like Shelby Steele, who I interviewed, and Shelby said he's an African American. I think he operates out of Stanford University. But one of the things that he said is: people need to understand that the founding fathers, although they didn't do away with slavery at the time, they wrote the document. that would quickly Compared to how long slavery had been in play, I think he said it was a 3,000-year-old industry. That started in Africa certainly was used around the world for an economic engine.
We get all that. But he said, if you think about it, the Founding Fathers created a document that you quoted a moment ago about all men being created equal. that within eighty, ninety years It would result in the Emancipation Proclamation, what Abraham Lincoln would do.
So they took a 3,000-year-old industry concern. created a document that could illuminate people at the right time with the right leadership to end it. And that's kind of part of our history too. But speak to that idea that everything the founding fathers believed is nullified because they didn't attack slavery at the time, even though George Washington wrote about the growing concern he had about it.
Well, first of all, you have to acknowledge and understand, come from a point of view that's reality that slavery was the great American tragedy. that and often the way the government treated Native American peoples. Great American tragedy. And yet, at the same time, there was this great debate about slavery with the With the founders at the time of the Declaration of Independence and Jefferson's original draft was stronger about it, language that was taken out. And the big concern was, politically, that they felt like that it was so narrow of a vote to be able to pass this Declaration of Independence.
And it really was narrow, because it had to be unanimous. because you couldn't have some colonies that were in, some colonies were out. And so the big debate was that finally they decided after dealing with slavery that they couldn't fix it.
So they kicked the can down the road because they felt like that they had to have the Declaration of Independence, they had to have a nation, and then then it could be addressed.
So then it came up again during the Constitution, and it still was not properly addressed. can was kicked down the road again. But even with all that imperfection. even with how that all turned out. the forward motion was put in place.
That that it would be such hypocrisy. to say in your mission statement that all men are created equal. by their Creator. And yet have such inequality with slavery. And so once that document became the mission statement of this new nation and was Expressed through law, through the Constitution, it was like the clock was ticking on the death of slavery.
Yeah. I mean, and that, you know, it is a scourge. It's it's horrific what took place. You don't want to minimize that. But Like any nation, you hopefully continue to grow in a positive direction, in a good biblical direction, which I think when you look at the arc of history in the U.S., that's certainly, I think, the experience.
And many people are coming to that same conclusion, including Shelby Steele, who just says we are so much closer than we were 40 years ago, 60 years ago.
So that continual progress is the key. Even though it's imperfect. Rod, let me ask you. We have the privilege of celebrating our freedom in America today, largely because of what these people did back then. How did George Washington and the Founding Fathers celebrate their freedom right after their victory over the British?
Well, for all purposes, the Revolutionary War ended in 1781 with the victory at Yorktown. But it took another almost two years or To work out all the details and come to a treaty at the Treaty of Paris. Washington's reaction was to call for a worship service. Congress did the same thing. Congress called for on these days of prayer and fasting, the Continental Congress observed those typically by assembling together and then marching as a unit to a church in Philadelphia.
And in some cases, twice at least, they went to two different churches for two different worship services. And that's how they reacted to The victory. There was this widespread celebration. On July 4th, they released the Declaration of Independence. But Jefferson, Adams, the founders, they thought the Great Party Day.
Would be on the 2nd. And Adam said, in fact, he wrote a letter to his wife and said that from now on, July the 2nd will be a day of celebration of fireworks. Worship services of great and glad celebration on the second. Yeah. You know, on this day, we're celebrating this.
This is why we had you here to talk about the founding of America, all of its goodness and all of its imperfection. And I think this will be a little bit of an unfair question, but you're the historian.
So if we could. slap the Jurassic Park idea on to the Founding Fathers and somehow we could revive them to come back today and they look at America and they look at where we're at. What do you think their reaction would be?
Well I would say that, and I've thought about that, I would say that, and I'm getting in the ground of speculation here, but I would say, first of all, that they would be impressed at the scope. And uh measure of America. They would be um impress to a point with technology. I think they would have a lot to grieve about. I think they would grieve a lot about America.
in where it is today in terms of its shift in the world view, because the And this is really central to everything that you're addressing, I believe, but the great influential and underreported story of our Generation. To me. as a historian. is the shift in the world view. in the Western culture and in America in particular.
You know, everybody has a worldview. It's how you look at life, it's how you view the world, it's your core values, and the traditional, historic. Western civilization worldview, and the American worldview was the Judeo-Christian worldview, the biblical worldview. And uh in the late uh mid late uh 20th century there became a shift. From this worldview, the Judeo-Christian worldview, holding a view that God is the authority over everything.
and that God should be the central focus of everything. And the shift over to a view that humanity is the authority over everything, and humanity should be the focus of everything. That is a phenomenal shift. that um As a remarkable impact. And cannot do anything but that.
I think in that context, then, right at the end here, you know, what do churches do? Churches played a vital role, as you've pointed out, in the Revolutionary War. Clergy led people in their theological understanding of what was right and wrong. What about today? How do we apply those principles to our situation today?
How do we. assess our situation and then act accordingly. Yeah. How should we then live? I would say that We have to remember that it is a difficult Time for people of faith, and particular time, difficult time, particularly for Christians who are called on to remain steadfast in the faith and in the truth of Scripture.
and that at the same time becoming the unpopular minority. And also, having to show the love of Christ and wanting to show the love of Christ. But I would just say that, from a point of view of history, that you see throughout history that The church has flourished under duress.
So Uh I would say that If we feel pressure as Christians today, and I'm speaking personally now as a Christian, not as a historian, but I think we feel that pressure, we have to realize that this is not new for Christianity. This is what we've enjoyed as Christians here in this culture over the life of our nation has been really unique. And it's not typical of what Christians have faced, and yet we see. that the church Of Christ has flourished throughout the ages. It's a great reminder.
And I think of those scriptures: fear not, be anxious for nothing. I mean, if we as believers believe, I think we should have a sense that God knows what He's doing and He's going to unroll this according to His plan. And I think we need to be projecting the very things the Founding Fathers talked about in terms of a sense of. Faith, religious freedom, the core beliefs of the Judeo-Christian perspective, the fruit of the Spirit. If we can do those things and remain calm, I think people will wake up.
When we go into this folly, of trying to live life without God, 'cause I think it ends up in a dead end. And I think our culture is experiencing that now.
Well always, throughout history if you study the Church history, the challenge has been, and it is today. that in whatever circumstances we face, that we show the love of Christ. Do that consistently. And God will take care of it. Think of the people in Rome and what they face, like you mentioned, China, where it doesn't look like the church is going to.
flourish. or even get out of that decade or that century, and then the Lord turns it around. And the thing standing in the floor of the Coliseum today is what? Oh, a cross. The cross of Christ.
Isn't that interesting? Rod, this has been great. Thank you for the conversation. Thanks for re-educating us on what the founding fathers, particularly George Washington, was about, what this nation was founded upon, the principles that it was founded upon, and the reminder of how do we get back there and concentrate on the core things. Fear not, be anxious for nothing, and love your neighbor and love God.
And I think you've got the ingredients there for a truly continued great nation. Thanks for being with us. My pleasure. And if you want a copy of this great book by the hand of Providence, get in touch with us and we will send it to you for a gift of any amount. If you can make a monthly commitment like Gene and I do and Dina and John do, we are a monthly contributor.
Yeah, that's a great way to do it. We'll send you a copy as our way of saying thank you. If it's a one-time gift, we'll do the same. We'll send a copy of the book for you. And it's just a great way to do ministry together.
Yeah, donate today and make it. Generous contribution as you can, and we'll send that book to you by the hand of Providence. Our number is 800, the letter A in the word family, or click the link in the show notes. Yeah. Coming up next time, an inspirational radio drama about America's independence.
But you'll be caught. I mean,. If you're caught, won't you be hanged? Yes, in all probability. But if that is the Lord's will, then who am I to stand in the way?
I only regret that I have but one life to lose for my country.
Now Up you go. Godspeed, Irwinspringer. You carry our best hope onward to liberty. To liberty! To liberty.
On behalf of the entire team, thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.
