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You gotta make sure Jesus is part of your marriage and within the The dialogue at the wedding in Cana. I love it where Mary says Do whatever. He tells you.
Well, that's British evangelist Jay John with an insightful message for how you can strengthen your marriage. We're so glad you've joined us today for Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller. Jay John always brings such great stories, and it was extra special to have his wife, Killie, join us for this show. And we're so glad they made the long journey across the pond from London to be with us in studio to talk about their 42 years of marriage, which we all celebrate.
We love marriage here at Focus on the Family. We're actually accused of making an idol out of marriage, and to that we say, of course not, but we want you to thrive in Christ in your marriage relationship, and that's why we're here. In 2025 alone, Focus on the Family helped strengthen almost a half a million marriages. I'm so grateful for that. Those are couples in all stages, whether your marriage is in crisis, your marriage needs a little tune-up, or you're just looking for ways to love your spouse better.
We have resources that will fit that entire spectrum from our Hope Restored Marriage Intensives, our amazing team of Christian counselors, and our focus on the family broadcast app. We have something for your family. And I think you're really going to enjoy this show. I would agree, and Jay John has been here before, always well received by our audience. He has an evangelist's heart.
He's brought the good news of Jesus Christ to 70 countries and has written over 50 books, over a million copies in print in 13 languages. And you're really in for a treat because, Jim, Killy really brought out this wonderful heart for this guy that we've known. We've got more details about Jay John and all the evangelistic work he does, as well as the focus on the family resources Jim mentioned on our website. And with that, Jim, here's how you began today's program with Jay John and his wife, Killy. Jay John and Killy, welcome to Focus on the Family.
It's great to have you. Jim, thank you for having us. And John, wonderful to be here with you.
So fun. Thanks for having us. It is wonderful. You know, we've aired you on Focus on the Family many, many times, and the listeners love you. I can just say it that way.
You're always at the top of the responses that people provide focus, and they just love you. Of course, part of it's your accent, right?
Well, thank you, Jim. It reminds me of when Jesus rode on a donkey into Jerusalem. You know, that the donkey thought it was all about him, and he was so excited. And he thought to himself, Why was I locked up all these years? The people love me, they adore me, they don't even want me to get my feet dirty, so they're laying down their clothes.
But we all know, don't we, what happened to the donkey when the donkey got to Jerusalem? That is hilarious. You never ever heard of him again. That was the end of it. And we just carry Jesus, don't we?
Yeah, that's good. And you guys are here and we're talking about marriage. And Kelly, it's so good to have you because you're not always out there publicly, right? No, that's right. That's right, Jim.
It's an honor to be here. And yes, often you use the analogy of, sorry, I'm looking at my husband. Use the analogy of there's a surprised woman behind a successful man. Yes. I like that.
A surprised woman. Surprising. But you've been married 42 years. We have. We've got the silver medal.
But we're going for gold. We're going for gold. It's good. And it's all been wonderful, right? Oh, 41 happy years.
Out of 42. Yeah, I think that first year, Jim, it was tough. You know, at Christmas time, when you bring a Christmas tree into your home, you have to rearrange the furniture. But when you bring another person into your life, you've got to rearrange a lot more. And it does take time.
Time and it takes adjustment to do that. Killy, you threw the salad spoons at me.
Well, yes, that's not my finest out. Yeah, we're kind of just putting all the bad stuff out there right at the front. But did you?
Well, I guess the question is: did you strike gold? Did you hit him? No. No, fortunately. I mean, that would be terrible.
So you're not a good thrower of spoons. No, no. Let me start a little back when you met, and I understand a key part of your courtship was in part you giving your life to Christ. Yes. Describe that because that is so powerful.
Oh, thank you. Yes. So I was brought up in a Christian family, but by the time I sort of hit 17, I was kind of.
Well, I put Jesus on hold, I say, you know, that I just, it just didn't seem relevant at that time in my life.
So, roll on. I started at college. I was doing hotel management, and my father in the vacation, he was a pastor actually, he said to me, Why don't you open up a coffee shop in the church hall, which was right in the centre of Cambridge, which is a very busy university town. Brilliant. And the one thing he didn't mention was I would have to share the hall with the international student outreach that goes on in Cambridge, where the churches get together to reach out to all the overseas students who are coming to learn English.
So, your dad had a little bit of a scheme to do that. I think he maybe did. He's never confessed it.
So, I had to hand the keys over to this international outreach, to the leader of the first two weeks of the team. And I think the first thing I couldn't believe was students my age giving. Giving up their summer vacation to tell people about Jesus. I mean, that was the first thing. I was like, why would you even do that?
And so we got chatting with the team leader, and one thing led to another. He kept saying, you know, you must come to one of the meetings that we're holding. No, no, far too busy. You know, no, no, no, no, no. And I sat down one evening and I just said to my mum, actually, I said, I'm going.
And I went to this meeting, and it was one of those things that, you know, it's the early 80s where you had drama and you had singing and you had, and it all was speaking to me. It was like my life being laid in front of me. And I was the first person to respond.
So I was followed up by my now husband.
Now, that's an important part of the story. You called it pastoral encouragement, follow-up. Absolutely. Was it as pure as it sounds, or did you have a little scheme going?
Well, when I first met Killy, I realized she came from generations of missionaries. And evangelists, and I realized that she was sitting on the fence. And sitting on the fence, Jim, is a very uncomfortable place to be. And if you're sitting on a fence, you've got to electrocute the fence. Yeah.
Kelly, let me ask you this question because so many people listening might have kids in that zone, 19, 20, maybe somewhere in their 20s. And they're on the fence. They're not, you know, they're living where you were living. What encouragement would you give to the Christian parents to say, Hold fast, don't give up hope. Yes, exactly.
Do this or that. What kind of advice would you give them for their wayward child? I would definitely say prayer. Prayer, I think, is the key. And there's that beautiful verse: you know, trust in the Lord, don't lean on your own understanding.
And I think for our kids, it's so easy to. Lean on the circumstances that we see them in at this moment. Don't do that. Trust God. And you know, the Lord knows.
And I love that story of the Emerz Road, where those two on the road are walking what appears to be away from Jerusalem, and they're not sort of, you know, they're not, they should be in Jerusalem waiting, you know, and everything, but they are walking away, but Jesus walks with them. And I think sometimes we have to remember that, that although our children appear to be walking away, Jesus is often closer to them than we realize. It's such a good thing to remember and not to lose hope and not to express that loss of hope to those kids. Absolutely, Jim. Don't try and argue with them or anything.
It doesn't get anywhere. I'm reminded of that story, Jim, of this mother who raised her son as a believer. He was super bright, went to university as a teenager. and rejected his mother's Christian faith And got involved in all sorts of philosophies and alternative lifestyle. And his mother just prayed, prayed, prayed.
But she didn't know that he was very intrigued by this street preacher. Interesting, you know, if you walk past a street preacher, you're kind of, oh dear, what are they doing? But he was intrigued by this street preacher and wanted to go and hear him as often as he could. and the mother just prayed. Anyway, nine years later.
He has an epiphany and he's totally transformed. And the mother's name is Monica, and her son's name is Saint Augustine. Oh, way to put that story together. Yeah, I mean, that's beautiful. But, you know, one of the prolific thinkers and writers in Christian history.
Yes. Yeah. Jay, let me ask you: you grew up Greek. Of course, I saw the film My Big Fat Greek Wedding, I think it was called. And is it true?
The Windex thing about spraying Windex on injuries?
Well, Jim, when that movie came out, it was very popular. And friends of mine said, Oh, Jay, John, is that what Greek culture is like? And I said, No, it's worse. And you know, culture, I'm sure many of your listeners will agree can be very restricting and can be very suffocating. My mother is a travel agent for guilt trips.
So, you know, I only have to call my mother. And, you know, within a minute or two, she's making me feel guilty about something. Right. But you've managed that so well.
Well, but how did that shape your view of marriage? I mean, you're a young man, you're living in this Greek family, and they have a particular idea of marriage and how marriages come together. And in that context, I mean, the in-law battles can be Oh. And it sounds like you're describing a bit of that. Oh, they were tough.
I mean, when I introduced Killy to my parents, I mean, it was awful, wasn't it, Killy? Yeah, it was. It was brutal, actually. Wow. But it was.
But God's grace, I think, protected us from not becoming bitter.
So they didn't come to the wedding. Yeah, no, they didn't come to the wedding. Because Achilles English and they wanted me to marry a Greek Cypriot. And it meant that much to them. Yeah.
But they wouldn't even come to the wedding. That had to be crushing for you. Yeah. I mean really. It is, when I think back, I really do believe in God's grace.
It is because we've over the years, the relationship has improved.
So, you know, for those who go through this, who are listening, you know, don't give up hope. And that verse from Romans. Yes, God spoke to us through this verse in Romans where it says, as much as it lies within you, keep the peace. And we felt the Lord said to us, don't judge them for the way they're reacting to you. As much as it lies within you, keep the peace.
And so we're like, okay, we've got to keep the peace. Let's honor them as best as we can. And I think the Lord has sustained us.
Well, I think we have a good basis for the families you're coming from. Let's turn into the marriage side of this. You do talk humorously about Being married 42 years and 41 of them being so happy. Let's, of course, go to that one year. You weren't doing so well.
But it's this idea in the early part of marriage, a lot of traps can be set because you are trying to rearrange the furniture for Christmas and somebody new coming into your life. And it does change people. I think let's start with the spiritual concept of all this. Why did God do it this way? Why does He bring two different people together who think they have very little difference until they start, you know, brushing their teeth together in the morning and making meals together?
And you find out, oh my gosh, she is not like me at all.
So, the why question: why did God do this?
Well, it helps produce the fruit of the Holy Spirit. Dang, that's it. It refines you. It's like sandpaper, just kind of refining you. And it really does.
You know, you do. In marriage, you learn to exercise peace, patience, kindness, goodness. Gentleness, faithfulness, and self-control. It's kind of where you learn it. In my opinion, I mean, it's in marriage, if you're willing.
I think so. I think I like that if you're willing. Yes, if you're willing. You actually have to be willing. And yeah, no, and I love it.
And I'd like to just say that, you know, we are still learning. Sure. You know, I think we can all testify to that. Absolutely. Yeah, it is.
No, couples who are going to get married often say to Killy and me, oh, you know, what advice would you give us? What advice would you give us? And we've come up with four words, actually, Jim. And the first word is respect. I need to respect Killy.
Killy needs to respect me.
However, I need to be the kind of person that warrants Killy respecting me. That's good. You know, so, oh, wow.
So, what do I need to do? What does Killy need to do? Uh, the second word we use is responsibility. Many couples on their wedding day they say, I do, and then they don't. You know, man, that's good.
Yeah, you've got to because in marriage on the wedding day, you know, we the minister will say, Oh, today we witness two becoming one, and then the day after the honeymoon, we discover which one. Yeah, that's for sure. No, but you've got to take responsibility, don't we, Killy? No, it's so true, it's so true. I mean, and um.
Yeah, I think every couple would say this. They've got their responsibilities within the house and, you know, and outside of the house and things like that. But then there's also the responsibility you have together, that you work through things together as well. You can't just leave it all to one person. That's the importance of that.
That's so true. Let's to grab the listeners and the viewers on YouTube, pull us into those maybe not so comfortable early years because everybody's going to attach to that, I think. Most people, they're going to say, yep, that's what we did too. What were some of those things dividing you? I mean, the common things.
Describe in your situation what was happening that made it not so happy.
Well, I think uh one of us is tidy and one of us wasn't tidy. That's a great way to put that. I need to learn from you how to do this. One of us found that very frustrating. and irritating.
And isn't that interesting? Because in some ways, that's a minor thing. Totally. But the minor thing became a major thing. And it kind of escalated.
To the point of irritation. Do you remember those old pressure cookers? Oh, yeah. I'm right with you. Yeah, because the thing is, you're trying to, you know, don't say anything, don't say anything, but you're getting more irritated and more irritated.
I can't believe it. Still. That's it. And then you find a bit of an explosion. Like, who put who leaves the.
Cupboard open. Yeah. I know. Tell my wife to hit my head on. That's true.
She's saying, well, I'm going in and out. It's a lack of efficiency. We keep opening and closing. I know. That's right.
Who doesn't tidy this away? Yeah. So, I mean, that initially, believe it or not. Was A bit of a battle between us. Yeah, and actually, as well, I think you were traveling quite a lot as well, and I think.
You can both be really tired. And then you decide to have a deep discussion, and it's just not worth it. I really don't like those, just for the record. It's really, it really is. It seems like that's what married couples are supposed to do: have deep conversations.
Deep conversations when they're both absolutely shattered. Do not do it. You know, so I think as well, that was a bit of a. you'd be away and I'd be like, right, we need to talk about this. It's like, you know.
Actually, hang on, let's let's have a nice good night's sleep. And have a cup of coffee somewhere and the next day or something. Killy, that's really important because you're describing a bitterness, a root of resentment that begins to spin in you. And this can be the husband or the wife, but there's something going on.
Now you're not feeling treated fairly. You feel ignored. You feel like you're not being heard. I know I'm hitting all the hop buttons. Can I through experience?
That's a great way. Actually, that's a great way of describing it. And do you know, I had an older woman who was in my life, she wonderful lady. And she came along to me one day and she actually said to me, and I didn't think I was particularly like this, but she said to me fairly early on, I think we had young children, but fairly early on in our marriage. Self-pity is a sin.
And I remember being like, I don't think I dwell in self-pity. But you know, that bitterness, that root that starts to take place actually is so dangerous in marriage. It's like a weed. Yes. And you're not always aware of it, but it's there, just building, building, getting tangled up.
And then something else comes along and it's sort of, oh, let's put that in there as well. And so, yes.
So actually, that was my wake-up call when she said that, actually. And that was when I thought, no, you have to push into the Lord. You have to kind of, you have to, you know, you know. Yeah, in that regard, though, to me, it always feels like a why on the road emotionally for that person, whether it's the husband or the wife. And you have to make a choice.
You have to decide. A, you have to be aware. That this is in me.
So that's knowing your heart. B, am I going to choose to go down this bad path or am I going to find a way to go down a good path? And that navigation is so critical. And I think a lot of wives, let's put it in that. How do you arrest the weed?
How do you pull the weed and move in the better direction with your husband who's demonstrating all this behavior that is really making you angry? And then do it with sincerity and with a Christ-like heart. Do you know, looking back, hindsight's a great thing, isn't it? But it took me a long time, actually, if I'm really honest. But you know, it is our identity in Christ, actually, that I think is the root.
That once we've grasped that, that we are his child, you know, he loves us, you know, he adores us, he died for us. Once we've really got that and understood it, and the whole transforming of the mind. You can relate so much better, whether it's to your husband or to your Any relationship really. But, you know, that Knowing who you are.
So you're totally secure in who you are. And out of that, dealing with the conflict. Are one with that. You know what I mean? In a mature Christian attitude, the relationship changes because you truly are not resentful or bitter anymore.
You're not rooted in the bad guy's fruit. You're rooted in the good guy's fruit. And that's a good place to be. And sensitivity, Jim, I think is very important. And I remember I came back from being on a mission, and lots of people had come to Christ.
And even though I was exhausted, I was exhilarated. And so I come back and I'm telling Killy all of this. And I remember Killy going, Will shall I tell you what my life was like while you were away? I had three screaming children in the car driving to church, and I was shouting at them in the car: stop doing that, stop hitting each other. And then getting three children out and saying, Hello, God bless you, God bless you.
And she said, That's my world. And it was. A wake-up call for me, really. Not that it was inappropriate for me to share what had happened. But to be more sensitive.
Of what was life like for Killy while I was away. I mean, this is practical stuff for marriage. How did you do that? And men, I'm telling all the women listening, men need to hear somebody say, This is how you do that. We don't intuitively figure it out.
How did you do that? What did you say? How did she feel heard and seen? Again, I like the word intentionality, Jim. I really, even though I came back from missions, exhausted.
I really tried. to be there to be attentive and to step up With all the chores that needed doing in the house. How can I help Killie? What can I do? How can I help with the kids?
How can I just ease the burden and the stress on her? And I really had to work hard at it because I felt so exhausted. And that was one thing I would do. And also, we were very good at carving out time.
Okay, let's have tomorrow morning off. Let's just go for a walk. Let's just go and have a coffee. We were quite good at that, weren't we? We were.
And actually, holidays became a lot more important as well. And I used to call it regrouping.
So, you know, you have to take time to work at things and not. just prioritise ministry or Work. You often say that thing about the Lord of the work. Yes. Yeah, sometimes, I mean, look, we're all in ministry, but then there's ministry ministry.
But I think those of us in ministry ministry, sometimes the work of the Lord becomes more important than the Lord of the work. Oh, without a doubt. You know, and you can have so many irons in the fire. that you've actually put the fire out. Yeah.
And you need to stoke up the fire.
Well, those are good, good friends. We wrap our day. and our everything that we do from the morning in prayer to the evening in prayer. The first thing we do when we wake up, we're in bed, we wake up, we have a cuddle, that means a hug, hug. We have a hug, and then we pray the Lord's Prayer.
That's the first thing we do. And then we pray for the family, we pray for the day, and we pray for those who are sick. And we end our night with prayer.
Well, that's good advice. And I think that's something everybody could apply who believes in Jesus because you will see the fruit of the Spirit in your life if you're doing those things. And I want to come back next time and continue the discussion and talk about these things that we can do in marriage that really predicts a great outcome. A happy marriage for a long time.
Some people are going, I can't even imagine that. But actually, you can. Till death do us part. Amen.
So we'll pick up next time if you're willing to stick it out with us here and we'll continue the discussion. Thanks for being with us. Thank you.
Well, Jay John and Killy are a remarkable couple and such great guests. I love hearing their love for the Lord and for marriage and their great stories. And for everyone listening, Focus on the Family is here to help you thrive in your marriage. And we have amazing resources available to you, like our team of Christian counselors, our Hope Restored Marriage Intensives, and so much more. If you need encouragement today, don't hesitate.
Give us a call or stop by the website. We'd love to hear from you. In fact, we just heard from Teresa in Michigan. Her note to us was really remarkable. She said, Focus on the Family has been a steady, God-given companion through my life, guiding me as a young mom, strengthening me through the heartbreak of losing my husband, and shaping the way I raise my children with grace and biblical truth.
Through every season, I found encouragement, practical help, and a reminder that I was never walking alone. Looking back, I can see. See how God used your broadcast to steady my heart, deepen my faith, and keep pointing me and my family toward God's faithfulness. What a tremendous note. Yeah, and it's an amazing testimony.
We love to be part of what God is doing here through Focus on the Family, and we'd love for you to join us in this effort. For a gift of any amount to the ministry, we want to make J. John and Killy's great devotional, Marriage Works, a 40-day devotional to strengthen your relationship, available to you. Your donations allow Focus on the Family to minister to literally thousands of families like Teresa's every day.
So donate, get your copy, and let's do ministry together. Yeah, we're a phone call away, 800, the letter A and the word family, or donate and get this terrific little devotional and learn about other resources that Jim mentioned when you click the links in the show notes. And thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once more help you and your family thrive in Christ. Live your truth.
A lot of people say that, don't they? But truth isn't something we decide. God has decided it for us, and it's our job as believers to share his truth with a world in need. I'll encourage you to do that through my podcast, Refocus with Jim Daly. I visit with fascinating guests about important topics like gender confusion, cancel culture, and more, while helping you share God's love with others.
Listen at refocus with JimDaily.com. Uh
