Your marriage can be healed. A hope-restored marriage-intensive from focus on the family can transform you and your spouse's relationship in just a few days. We'll go to this thing, but this is it. If this doesn't work, we're done. What we have now, it's way more than we ever had before and that I ever even dreamed of in the marriage.
Discover more at hoperestored.com. That's hoperestored.com. When I found out that I was having a boy, I was really excited, but also nervous. Having three sons, there is never a dull moment. Out of the blue, they'll just grab you and hug you and say, I love you, mom.
Always activity and rough housing.
Well, maybe you have some young boys growing up in your family, and you can relate to those comments. Today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, we're going to be exploring that special relationship between mom and son, especially during the early formative years. Thanks for joining us. I'm John Fuller. John, here's a no-brainer.
I can't speak for moms, but I can speak for dads, and I love being a dad to my two sons, and it was so much fun. I'm not sure, Gene would agree it was fun and we loved every stage of that adventure. But regardless of what the culture says, girls and boys are different. And it shows up on day one. And as you unfold that relationship with them, with your sons, you see the energy.
Man, sometimes they're just bouncing off the walls, running through the house, throwing things around. Yep, probably breaking things, spilling things, daring things, you know, jumping off of fences and trees and all those things. And today we do, as John said, we want to talk to you about how to be the best mom you can be in that situation. I remember one of the funniest, and it only happened one time. I came home from work.
It was probably 5.30 and I walk through the door and Jean has the two boys and they're young, probably two and four. Here, take them. I'm done today. And I mean, I was like, can I just change my clothes? But she, it was the only day that happened.
And that must have been a bad day. But we want to equip you.
So even bad days are good days. And our guest is Molly DeFranc back. Into the studio with us. She's been here before. She's an author, speaker, and mom of six kids.
She's got three boys and three girls. She has a lot of experience as a mom, and she's turned. Her experiences in that physical world of boys that you were describing, Jim, into a great book called Mothering Boys, Eight Things Your Son Needs From You Before He Turns 10.
So get a copy of this book, learn more about Molly. Stop by our website. The link is in the show notes. And, you know, in addition, John, I mean, the stuff we're going to talk about when it relates to moms and their relationship with their sons applies to dads too.
So don't tune out. Yeah, there's a lot for dads to learn here. Right, exactly. Molly, welcome back. Thank you so much for having me.
It's such a joy to be here. Yeah, it's good. Thank you for traveling from California. We enjoy that. And I'm from California, so I love that.
You're from the middle part of the state, the agricultural area.
So you're seeing a different part of California than where I grew up in Southern Cal. But welcome. Thank you.
So good to have you.
Now, six kids, that sounds Brady Bunch. She had three boys and three girls.
So that's awesome. That's a lot, though.
So most moms, the mom question I'd want to ask is, how do you manage that? You know, it is a lot of kids.
So we have three boys and three girls. We have four biological kids, and then two came into our family through foster care. That's great. Congratulations. Great.
Thank you so much. Yeah, they're ages nine to 16.
So we got them all within seven years of each other.
So it's loud, it's crazy. The car is messy sometimes, but it's full of joy and fun at the same time. That's so good.
So you got the PhD in motherhood, obviously, just through experience. Let's kick off with a funny story that you had in the book. I think one of your kids, two years old, and you had a syrup disaster. What happened? Oh, yeah.
I love sharing the story with other moms who are in the trenches because let me tell you, first of all, this ministry, this podcast, this show has ministered to me in my early motherhood when I was in the trenches, really in the days of this story. It is hard raising young kids, especially those two, three, four-year-olds, and especially boys. When my son was two, he was so much different than my older daughter. He was wild and bouncy. And in fact, I was concerned he had these sensory-seeking behaviors.
So I took it. It's called being a boy. That's true. Yeah. But I took a call from the doctor.
He was calling me back to address these concerns that I had. And so I looked at my son. He was in his high chair. He was set up with his waffles all cut up nice and small. And I said, he'll probably be fine here for a few minutes while I take this phone call in the other room.
And that's probably when the narrator would have said, he will not be fine. Always have an eye on that boy. You're right. Rookie mistake. Because I came back in the room after this phone call.
My son had managed to climb out of his high chair onto the wooden kitchen table. He grabbed the Costco-sized jug of maple syrup. Poured it out onto the table and then sat in it and was rubbing it on his face and his hair. And I am looking at this kid like, Are you kidding me? This is unbelievable.
And I love sharing this story because, you know, this book talks about eight things your son needs from you before he turns 10. And for moms, dealing with stuff like that. And if you're raising a boy that age, you're dealing with stuff like that, right? This can sound lofty and stressful, but what I want to encourage moms with is this book and these ideas are. Are really things that you can use.
They're just a little bit of intentional mothering right in the trench. It doesn't cost a dime, it's things you can do in the waiting room at the doctor's office, in the car rides, in the conversation over dinner, that really just give our boys what they need.
Well, and I think that getting back to it, you also speak in the book about, write in the book about the importance of noticing those positive things that your boys do when there's so many easy negatives, right? Just the energy and all that and messiness. But how did you practically address that with your boys to say, you know, I love you. I see so many great things in your future. I'm kind of doing it here for you.
But so describe that importance of reaffirming them because boys, you know, it's interesting the way somebody once described it to me: boys, especially in their relationship with their mother, they're really fragile. They don't like shame, they don't like disappointing you. I mean, it's really interesting. I think girls and moms, daughters, and moms, you can have it out, hug, and you're off to the next thing together emotionally. Boys, when they feel like they let you down, it's a male thing.
Like, I did not perform the way I needed to, and it's disappointed mom, and she's angry. And we don't know what to do with that.
So, speak to that idea of belonging. Belonging to something big and important, and how do we get that son to realize that they belong to a big story? Absolutely. Yeah. And you bring up a good point.
And that's really the first thing of these eight things that I encourage moms to instill in their kids is that sense of belonging. And we have this privilege of showing our young sons that they belong in our family. They are loved. They are fully known and fully loved. They have intrinsic inherent value because they are an image bearer of God.
And so we get to reflect that message. We get to live it out day in and day out in the minutiae, in the trenches, in the chaos, in the syrup. In the syrup, I love it. That's going to be the common theme here. But, you know, it also goes back to when we see those negative traits, we see the positive and really want to build up our sons in that, but we also know our sons probably better than anyone.
And so we get to see these traits in our kids that. No one else on the planet is probably gonna, you know, if our kid is acting annoying, maybe at school or being overly chatty or meddling. Kids aren't going to say, hey, man, you're really struggling with this thing where you're meddling in other people's business and it's kind of annoying.
So maybe work on that. They're just going to walk away and play with someone else.
So that's our job as moms to really kind of get that trait on the right track. And so I have a part in the book where I highlight these traits that can be maybe negative on a bad day, but those same traits, those same wirings on a good day can be used for good and for godly purposes. And there are Bible stories to support this. Like I'm thinking about if you're stubborn on a bad day, you've got someone who's firm in their convictions on a good day. And I think about Moses, who God came to him.
God himself showed up to Moses and was like, hey, Moses, I need you to go do this thing. And Moses, like four or five times, was like, I don't know about that. And you're like, Moses. God Himself came to you and is telling you, like, that's pretty stubborn to kind of make excuses for God. But then you see this same guy.
Went to Pharaoh and he did. He advocated for the Israelites and he led 2 million people out of Egypt and for decades. And I'm thinking, that's some guy who's his stubbornness, he's firm in his convictions. I can't think of another human who could do something like that.
So, as moms, we get to notice these traits and say, gosh, how do we put this trait that can be hard and bad on a bad day and kind of channel it for good? And there's all kinds of examples in here. The next one is relationship. And I think in that regard, you know, all these can help roll into identity, which is a real crisis right now. Who am I?
Why was I created? Was I created? Did I come from mud? I mean, all those questions young boys might have and young girls too. But concentrating on young boys, relationship, boys are lonely today.
I mean, I think many experts in men would say that we're loners already. You know, when we go to do something, we usually need to go do something because we don't sit. down and have coffee with guy friends. Tell me, how's your heart? Where are you at, Bob?
We got to go play golf or go do something shoulder to shoulder. And then hopefully you open up to one another and you don't come home and say, hey, you spent four hours with Bob. How's his marriage? I don't know. We never talked about it.
So hopefully you can engage at a deeper level by sitting in the cart together, whatever it is you do together. But relationship matters. How do you begin to encourage your sons at a young age toward the benefit of relationship and actually help make it happen? Oh, yeah. Well, we just can't overstate the importance of our sons' ability to build and navigate relationships.
Two out of three young men say that no one really knows me. Two out of three. Two out of three. That's lonely. That is so lonely.
And also, have you heard of the Harvard study? It's like the longest study on they took hundreds of men over the course of multiple decades and they wanted to see what was the best predictor of health and longevity and happiness. And they looked at men from all kinds of backgrounds, blue collar, white collar, different educational levels, income. They found the best predictor of happiness and longevity wasn't money, it wasn't cholesterol levels, it wasn't exercise, it was the number and quality of relationships these men had in their lives.
So, this is really important for our son's long-term development. It's no wonder there's a six-year age gap in life expectancy for men and women, because women do tend to be more relational, but relational. Here's the good news: moms, we are standing in the perfect position to build our son's capacity to navigate relationships and I really break it down because I wanted to make it simple for moms of the youngest kids.
So, really, if you can build up that eye contact, those Conversational skills and help them figure out how to navigate conflict, you've gotten them way more than halfway.
So that's what I've got the several really great. Ideas for moms to really pour into their sons in that way. That's good. And Molly, going from syrupy snacks, we'll go to salty snacks. You had a story about Cheetos, and this wasn't kids outside of the home, this was kids inside the home.
There was a fight, I can't imagine. Why would kids fight over Cheetos, and how did you handle that? Oh, yeah. Why do adults fight over Cheetos? Right?
That's a good question. Yeah, you know, I remember one day I picked up my kids from school, and then we had to go to another school to pick up another kid. And the kids are in the back seat, and they're tired, and they're hungry, and it's right after school. And a fight broke out over Cheetos, okay? Because fights will break out over anything, as moms know.
And I just remember feeling so discouraged, and I just wanted to get out of there and drive home, but the practice wasn't over yet. And it just devolved, it broke down quick. And I realized: hey, you know what? We are stuck in this car, we better figure out a way out of this thing.
So I told my kids, I said, hey, listen, stop. Here's what we're gonna do. You're going to compliment the person next to you.
Okay. You're going to say one thing you love about that person.
So the kids were quiet for a second, and then my older son said, Um Mason has crazy hair today. And I'm like, okay, well, this is not going very well. I didn't respond, and I said, Mason, why don't you try it with Big Brother?
Something you love about your brother, something you think is great. And he said, You know what? He's really athletic and he's good at cooking. And he really busted out a good compliment.
So the car fell silent for a second, and my older son, who was a little humbled by that, said, Can I get a redo? And so he gave a genuine compliment to his little brother. Oh, that's great. And it started becoming contagious.
So the siblings started complimenting each other. And after a few minutes, the entire climate of the car ride just changed. And I really had to resist the urge to drive the point home and say, see, isn't this better? Because I knew I could tell the experience. made a difference for them.
But really, I just want to encourage moms, you know, Some days, 90% of the times, I'm trying intentional stuff like that, it flops.
Some days they don't work. But I would just, I'm really encouraged by a verse in Ecclesiastes. It's.
Sow your seed in the morning. And at evening, let your hands not be idle, for you do not know which will succeed, whether this or that, or whether both will do equally well.
So we don't know which seeds we're planting will sprout. We don't know, but that's kind of beyond our pay grade, right? God calls us to plant these seeds and to water them. And then he gets to decide beyond that what happens with it. But just to encourage you, moms there are opportunities all around you right in the midst of conflict to teach your kids how to navigate that conflict, how to love each other in the conflict.
And these lessons are so valuable for our kids. I have a bonus question in the marriage space here. Oh, yeah. So your husband, when he looks to maybe vacuum the car out for you, I'm assuming you don't have white interior with Cheeto fights in the back. That'd be driving me crazy.
I'd be saying, hon, no more Cheetos in the car. But it works. Yes. That's funny. Let me, before we leave this idea of relationship, let me go back to the eye contact.
And I kind of want to hear your heart on this. We've had guests before in the space of mothering. boys Back to the shame factor. Boys struggle to look you in the eye when they've been naughty. It's just really interesting.
And these psychologists would say, don't require your boys to look you in the eye. Not everybody.
Now, this isn't, you know, there's no blanket statement here. This is just their opinion. But we often do that. And I did it as a dad. Look me in the eye.
But they're saying for boys, it's a shame moment. And it's hard for them to look you in the eye because they know they did wrong. And so deliver it without requiring them to look you in the eye. How do you respond to that? And again, you're trying to say developing relationship.
Let's have eye contact because that's into the human soul.
So maybe differentiate between those two moments, a moment of coaching and then a moment of correction and how that could be a little different. Yeah. Well, I think it's particularly important for moms of young boys who are getting in trouble a lot, especially if they're like bouncy and wild like some of mine were. It's really important for us to create spaces to have connective eye contact. Contact.
Yeah, because so much of our relationship with our boys is going to be corrective. It's gonna be directive. Hey, go put your shoes away. Hey, stop doing that. And we really need to work a little harder to look them in the eye and just say, hey, I love you.
You're my little buddy. I'd love being your mom. You're awesome. And they've actually studied that you can accelerate relational closeness through eye contact. I came across some really interesting research that I know might be controversial, but.
It said there are people who studied babies who nurse, and they said, We don't actually know if babies who breastfeed are better off because of the chemical compounds in the milk or because they get more eye contact with their mom. We don't know what the difference is.
So, that, I mean, you could probably argue either side of that, and I don't know what the answer is, but it was at least very interesting to see how important. Eye contact and positive eye contact. It's something we need to work with. I don't know if we understand as human beings how those little things make such a difference in our development as infants, as toddlers, etc. I think we take for granted those things.
We don't observe as intuitively as we should just those subtleties of what helps develop a healthy human being and how God designed us to develop in that way.
So when we start introducing different things than what God intended, and maybe you have to, there's no guilt with this, but then you need to be aware so you can compensate for that. And I like that. That's good. If you can't breastfeed, obviously, and you're bottle feeding, just make sure you're replicating that moment by looking at them as you bottle feed them, etc. Same for dad as they bottle feed too.
It's good. But those kinds of things, yeah. Yeah, and it's a really interesting point. Um, to your point about shame and eye contact, it makes me think about even as adults sometimes we have a skewed view of how God sees us. And sometimes a friend had asked me an interesting question: How do you think God sees you when He looks at you?
And sometimes we have this skewed view, like, oh, He's. Tisk, tisk, tisk, you know, or he's like saying, I'm so ashamed of you. But, but where does that come from? Yeah. You know, and if we are able to model for our kids that, no, you're.
Your parents are just totally for you. And sometimes you need correction, and sometimes you need to be redirected. But guess what? In Christ, we are fully loved and fully known, and our value never changes. As moms, the more we're able to look in our son's eyes and them to feel fully known and fully loved, the more we're really giving them a better, more accurate picture of how God sees us.
Yeah. Number three was authority.
Now this, we could spend a long time on this. This right here would be the reason to get the book so you can go into more in-depth study of this issue of authority. This is probably one where boys really struggle. You know, it's that proverbial thing. Don't go over this line.
If you do, you're going to suffer the most horrid consequence. And you walk away, and the first thing the boy wants to do is put his toe over the line, and then his foot, and then his body. And look what I'm doing.
So, in this area of authority, what's like a single observation that you would want to make before we go to the next one? Just to say, what's critical about authority?
Well, I think Tim Keller said it best that it's respect for your parents that is the basis for every other kind of respect and every other kind of authority in your life.
So, it is critical that when our boys are little and they're testing those limits, and they will because they're human beings, right? When they test those limits, we have to hold the line, we have to enforce our authority. And really, natural consequences, making our boys wait, making them practice patience, these are just the critical fundamental components. And, you know, You look around, our culture is not engineered for teaching kids to wait. It's engineered for a digital pacifier.
Oh, we're waiting. I don't want to deal with it. Hand them the tablet, hand them the iPad. That is not helping our boys, that's eroding the skills we're trying to develop in our sons.
So it's so important that we teach them that: hey, guess what? If mom says no, if dad says no, the answer is no. It's also important, I think, to share with our sons Bible verses. And I do recommend parents for your youngest sons use different translations. Use NIRV.
That's a very easy-to-understand translation of the Bible, but it's everywhere. Colossians says, children, obey your parents in everything that pleases the Lord. Let's teach our kids to please the Lord, teach them to obey their parents, teach them. Scripture, I think it's also really beneficial to model this struggle out. You know, when we pretend like we have it all together, we never struggle with this, that's a lie.
That's going to blow up one day. The kids will see, like, hey, guess what? We're human beings too. But when we're willing to kind of share out with our kids, hey, you know, I didn't want to get out of bed for church this morning. I was so cozy.
I didn't feel like going. But I know that God says, don't forsake the gathering. I know that he calls us into life with believers.
So I said, I'm going to do what God says. And I'm so glad I went anyway. And so sharing these tidbits with our boys really gives them permission to share authentically too and to struggle. Yeah. I think in that space of authority, one of the big things is explain it.
Yeah. Just explain it. Why this works and why it has to be this way and the need for it. I remember the boys stumbled into a bad word. They didn't know the word, but they just stumbled into it.
I'll leave it at that. And Gene, they kept pressing Gene at home. And they were young, probably like eight and I don't even know, eight and ten, maybe a little younger. But Jean said, Your father will tell you about it when he gets home.
So they made these signs, tell us, tell us now. And they had written these posters, and that's all it said. Dad, tell us, tell us now. And I got home and I'm like, what is happening? And Gene said, hey, boys, why don't you go jump on the trampoline?
That's a whole nother thing. But while they were out, Gene said, yeah, they stumbled onto a bad word. It'd be good if you could explain why they shouldn't use that word.
So that all went down. But I was able to explain why you don't use that word and what that word means and why you never use that word with anybody. And to their credit, I mean, they've been really good about curbing any of that, especially around mom. They're just good at, but I think the why was important. And I think sometimes as parents and moms, we don't stop to take the time to give them the fuller picture.
To tell them why that's not appropriate and why that authority, why as your authority, I'm asking you, don't say that word again or whatever it might be, fill in the blank.
Okay, right at the end, we got to cover number four of the eight: fun. Oh, yeah. I love this part. Gene would say, Yeah, you do love this part, maybe too much so, but talk about the importance of fun in the relationship between mom and son. Absolutely.
Proverbs 17:22: a cheerful heart is good medicine. And we see that boys today are suffering from. Astronomical rates of depression and anxiety. You know, it's largely due to this digital world they're living in, but also the breakdown of the family.
So it's so important for boys to experience this fun with their families. It actually has. Physiological benefits, it's really interesting. Um, laughter reduces stress, it increases pain tolerance, it boosts the immune system. They actually tested out humor therapy with dementia patients, and they found it to be as effective as antipsychotic drugs.
Wow, yeah, it's amazing, isn't that incredible? Just the dopamine releases, how God wired the brain. That's fascinating. Yeah, it's so incredible. And shared, shared laughter deepens empathy and attachment.
And there are so many ways for us to infuse fun. It's really. Superpower for our kids. If they're able to go through something difficult and still find the funny, it's going to help. Temper down that anxiety.
And you might be thinking, too, you're like, well, My three-year-old, my four-year-old boy, the things he finds funny are words that belong in the bathroom only.
So, I would just encourage you, mom, that, and dad, that, hey, it's also our job to educate our son's sense of humor, to tell them like this is not appropriate humor, but to show them things that are funny. And I have a lot of book recommendations in here for kids' books that are hilarious that you can enjoy with your kids. That's good. Molly, this has been great. We've run out of time.
Let's hang on and go another day and explain the next four.
So, we've covered belonging, relationship, authority, fun. We got four more to go. Can you stick with us? Absolutely. Okay, let's do that.
I think you get the point here. These are really good things for moms to know about and think about and be creative with. The book Molly's written, Mothering Boys: Eight Things Your Son Needs From You Before He Turns 10. Pretty easy. But again, we're so busy and life can get so hectic that if we're not aware and then thinking about these things, it's off the rail.
So get the book and put it on your radar because these are valuable things that your sons will really benefit from if you can deliver that as a mom. And I know you can. You can get a copy of the book from us directly. If you can make a gift monthly, that's great. Let's help other parents do a better job.
And if that's too difficult, a one-time gift is good as well. And when you send the gift, we'll give you the book as always, saying thank you for being part of the ministry. Yeah, join the support team, request Molly's great book, Mothering Boys, and learn all about the other resources we have for you here. Details are in the show notes, or you can call us, of course. Our number is 800, the letter A and the word family.
John, here's proof about the support that you provide. Focus on the family.
So when I read this comment from Mary, who contacted us, Own it. If you're a supporter to Focus, this is more to your credit than ours. We're here, but you add the fuel that makes this ministry roar. She said, please know that your programs have indeed influenced my life and those of my three sons in their growing up years. The Lord blessed and strengthened millions of families because of Focus on the Family.
Keep up the excellent work. That's encouraging. It is, and that's why we're here, Jim. I mean, we come in to work trying to help families with practical things. things and to help them biblically and to help them thrive in Christ.
And so as you support the ministry, you're helping us do that. And thank you in advance for your generous donations. And Molly, thanks for being a part of that because the authors that come on that have expressed great content. It's generous of you to come and be here with us.
So thank you. It's an honor. And once again, our phone number is 800, the letter A and the word family. And I want to tell you to swing by our website because there's one more thing that I want to mention, and that is our free online parenting assessment, which is going to help you understand what your approach is to parenting. How you might fine-tune it, some things that you're doing well.
It's going to give you some good conversation with your spouse, and you're going to be able to be stronger as a parent after taking this. It's free, it's online, it's our parenting assessment, and you'll find the link in the show notes. And thanks for joining us today for Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back next time as we continue the conversation with Molly DuFrank and once again, help you and your family thrive in Christ. Live your truth.
A lot of people say that, don't they? But truth isn't something we decide. God has decided it for us, and it's our job as believers to share his truth with a world in need. I'll encourage you to do that through my podcast, Refocus with Jim Daly. I visit with fascinating guests about important topics like gender confusion, cancel culture, and more, while helping you share God's love with others.
Listen at refocus with JimDaily.com. Uh
