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You know, I think if we understand this concept and we communicate love, it is true we cannot change our spouse. That's true. But we can influence our spouse, and we do every single day. We either have a positive influence or we have a negative influence every single day. And the most powerful influence you can have on the positive side is to be communicating love to that person in their love language, in a dialect that's meaningful to them, that's filling up their love tank.
That doesn't make them. Change, but it's a positive influence on them. They're far more likely to change if you're doing that on a consistent basis. That's Dr. Gary Chapman joining us today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.
And he's not alone. We also have Les and Leslie Parrott in the studio with us. Thanks for being here. I'm John Fuller. John, marriage isn't about romance or routine.
I mean, those things are evident. It's about learning to love your spouse in the way they understand love.
Now, the disclaimer for me is, Gene, are you listening? I hope not. Because I'm still working at this. We've been married 39 years, and I think Gene would say, yeah, there's still room to grow.
So I want to have that confession. But every expression of love is definitely a choice.
Some days that choice feels easy. Other days it may take a sense of sacrifice. But in God's design, marriage isn't meant to make us happy. It's to make us holy. That kind of changes your entire perspective on what marriage is about.
And I'll tell you, this is why focus on the family exists. We want to help you have the best possible marriage you can have. And with close to 50 years of family ministry, we've heard a lot of complaints and questions that couples have and how to help them have that thriving relationship. As part of That we've invited marriage experts, literally experts, Dr. Gary Chapman and Drs.
Les and Leslie Parrott, to help us all learn to recognize our spouse's love language and to become fluent in expressing it. And Gary, I'm still telling you, I don't know mine. When I do that survey, I'm like, I could be any one of the five. I love them all.
So we'll have to work on that.
Well, we got a new survey for you now.
Okay, good. Excellent. I'm looking forward to it.
Well, Dr. Gary Chapman is a pastor, author, speaker, counselor, radio host. He's been here a number of times, and you probably know him best because of the series of books he's written, The Five Love Languages, although a number of books cover other topics as well. Les and Leslie Parrott have been married over 40 years. They have two sons, and Les is a clinical psychologist.
Leslie is a marriage and family therapist, and they're very popular conference speakers and relationship experts, as you said, Jim, and best-selling authors as well. They've collaborated with Dr. Chapman on a new book called The Love. language that matters most. How to personalize love so they really feel it.
And we want to encourage you to get a copy of this book and to learn more at our website. The link is in the show notes. Gary, Leslie, and Les, welcome back to Focus on the Family. You all been here before.
Now, I'm going to start with this: Les and Leslie. You're from Seattle, so were you at some coffee shop before you guys met, and you guys were in line together, and you said, Hey, my name's Les. And you said, My name's Leslie. Maybe we should get married. Is that how that works?
Yeah, it's even more contextual to Colorado. That's right, because you actually got the vignette right, but we were on a ski slope. Is that right? Yeah, and somebody hollered out. It was a youth trip.
That's right. Les and Leslie, it's just so close. It had to be a topic of the show. She was 14, I was 16. We were, somebody hollered out Leslie.
We both skied over to that person and discovered each other. The rest of the story. I never knew that story. That is so funny. Gary, of course, welcome.
It's great to have you. To have you back. Let me ask you a question. You know, there is brilliance. You're always humble about this.
But, you know, every once in a while, an author. That's so interesting because he's always bragging around me. He's very famous. You know, an author will hit on something that feels so God-ordained. And love languages is one of maybe two or three things that I could think of.
Maybe like Kevin Lehman with Birth Order would be another one, but man, you really hit it. What gave you the insight about the five love languages? What were you seeing that developed a pattern in your observation? To say there's something here.
Well, it actually grew out of my counseling, in which they would sit in my office and one of them would say, I just don't feel any love, you know, coming from him or her. And the other one would say, I don't get it. I do this and this and this. Why wouldn't you feel loved? And I realized that they were sincere.
In their mind, they were loving them, but the other person wasn't getting it.
So eventually, I just went back through my notes and asked myself. When people said, I just don't feel any love. What did they want? What were they complaining about? And the answers fell into five categories.
Just hit those really quick and then we'll move. But I want people to just have the idea of what, if they've never heard a love language. What are the five? And these are in no particular order. One is words of affirmation, just affirming them verbally.
One is acts of service, doing something for them. Remember the old saying: actions speak louder than words. That's true for these people. Another is giving gifts. It's universal to give and receive gifts as an expression of love.
And then there's quality time, giving the person your undivided attention, and then physical touch. We've long known the emotional power of physical touch.
So those are the five love languages. Leslie, let me ask: both you and Les teach at the college level, university level. What are you seeing amongst young people, the 20-somethings, when it comes to this whole area of love language? I mean, what happens in a classroom that catches your attention? Yeah, well, let me tell you, this concept is pretty ubiquitous in society.
I mean, you can't turn on a current comedian without seeing this in the language. You can see it on the side of a truck. You know, next day delivery is our love language. Right. It's just like, see what you started, Gary?
But so, yeah, so the students are expressing it, probably mostly. And they're familiar with it. They may not know where it came from. It's just part of the lexicon, love language. And I always find it fascinating when we can actually educate them on there's actually five, and they're like hearing it for the first time.
Now, this, Gary, this book's been out for what? The original book? 30 plus years. 30 plus years. And sold one or two copies.
Yeah. 20 million copies. We say bazillion. Bazillion is rising. He's reached the bazillion level.
But it's accessible. Everybody gets it. Like you said, there's some intuitiveness to it. We're going to talk about this new book and how sometimes our intuition on it maybe gets the better of us because we don't understand what we call the dialect of your love language. But at any rate, it's the proverbial cookies on the bottom shelf.
It couldn't be easier to learn how to love someone when you know they're lovely. And I would think, Gary, that success, you've seen it in the counseling when you've applied this and people actually grab it. You know, there's two kinds of couples: people that actually will work on their marriage and others who won't. But those that actually apply these principles of the love languages see improvement in how their spouse feels loved, which is the key. Back to your point.
Yeah, absolutely. And it goes back to attitude. You know, I'm giving you information. You know, how to effectively love the other person and meet that emotional need. But you have to choose.
You know, even if you know the dialect, you still have to choose to speak it or not to speak it. Yeah. Because love is a choice. We're going to go deeper into all of that, but there's some groundwork I really want to cover, unless you and I tease each other mercilessly, and I love that. And this is not geared toward you.
But why do you think we're so quick to overestimate ourselves? You and me, or just human beings. I think I know his love language. It must be sarcastic. That's probably the name of the thought.
That's not fruit of the spirit, is it? I'm hoping the word might have to be. I know you overestimate yourself. No, actually, there's some incredible research on this. We do overestimate how good we are at things.
Take empathy, for example. Most people will say, oh, I'm above average on that. But we do this exercise. We've done it with, I don't know, countless students in big classrooms where we will have. Them fill out a little questionnaire on how adept they are at interpersonal skills.
And uh guess what? Out of 300 students, every single one of them is above average, and I think about 38% on average will say I'm in the top 1%. Yeah, which 38%. And the definition of average is notable. You don't have to be a statistician.
No, something's off there. And we always just have so much fun with this because we get the results back and we put it on the screen and we go, isn't it incredible that we got just out of this university campus, we just happen to get all the people that are the best at relationships right here in this classroom. And of course, they see the irony of it. Right. And hopefully score themselves a little more accurately in the future.
Exactly. But you know, that role of humility in us as human beings, made in God's image, you know, it always. it pauses me to think about God's nature being one of humility. I mean, he created the universe. Yeah.
Really? Yeah. He's a God of humility. Yeah. And we're created in his image.
But I guess the question there, even in that example, is why is humility so elusive for us as human beings? We all struggle with it. Yeah, it comes out of insecurity. You know, one of the basic kind of fundamentals of anyone that's a good listener. is curiosity.
In fact, do you know what the single most important question is that we ask in a conversation? This has been, I think I saw this first at Harvard University's Journal of something or other. And I can't remember the name of it. Yes. Yes.
Let's just call it the regent.
Sounds good. It sounds good. But they said the single most important question that you can ask in a conversation is, ready? The follow-up question. Because most of us, hey, what do you do for a living?
Oh, I'm a lawyer. Oh, hey, I have a cousin who's a lawyer. And blah, blah, blah, blah. Let me tell you my story. Yeah, exactly.
Rather than saying, well, you must enjoy that. Tell me, where'd you go to school? Or whatever the follow-up thing is to it. But it's curiosity. That is the antidote to that kind of lack of humility interpersonally.
When you're curious genuinely about another person, the kind of sense of having it all together, and I'm really good, I'm in the top 1%, that goes away. Leslie, I'll confess this since you're representing all wives here at the table. Way to go. Four against one. I would say four for one.
But in that regard, Gene and I, our point of pain is I'm pretty. Quick verbally, so I tend to like to complete her sentences. Love it. I think that's engagement. I feel like that's engagement.
I'm showing you, I am with you, and I know the end of your sentence before you do. Right. She doesn't see it that way. She doesn't feel that way. She doesn't feel connected.
I mean, I don't know how he knew that we had this very issue, but let's flip it around because in our home, I was the one that had to be confronted about that. I thought. You know, I'll finish your sentence and you'll know I'm with you before you even get it out. It's a compliment. Oh, I'm so here.
And you felt shut down. And a lot of times the end of the sentence wasn't exactly what you had in mind. Yeah, it's like, okay, if you want to tell the story now and change the narrative of everything I was getting ready to share with you, go ahead and finish the sentence. It's not it. When I was confronted, this was a point of humility for me because I thought.
Everyone in my life thinks I'm the best listener. This is the gift the Holy Spirit has literally given me. And my husband, the person I love the most, isn't feeling listened to. It was, talk about humility. And then I was defensive, and then I started noticing.
So, yeah. You know, filling your spouse's. Fuel tank is the concept, not filling yours, which I think I'm describing filling mine. How do we identify that? How do we learn to fill their tank in the language, like you said earlier.
That fills them. How do we get to know them well enough to do that? But you know, I think by nature we're all self-centered. There's a good part to that. That means we take care of ourselves.
But when it becomes selfishness and we're thinking in terms of what am I getting out of this, this is the problem. And that's why through the years I've had people say, you know, Gary, we read the book, we took the quiz, I know his love language or her love language, and I've started speaking it to them, but they're not speaking mine. And I said, well, let me make sure I understand you. You're speaking their love language in order for them to speak your love language? That's manipulation.
That's selfishness. You know, the Bible talks about unconditional love. You're going to love them. No matter whether they love you or not. And that's the most powerful influence you can have on them.
And what I'm excited about is this new book is going to help them be more effective in communicating love to the other person. Because in the Bible, The challenge is that we're to love others. And so when you know not only the primary love language, but you know the dialect or dialects that are most important, and you also understand how the personality Interfaces with that. It just gives you a better understanding of how to effectively communicate love to the other person. Which is how we came to this whole thing, right?
You and I were talking on the phone. You know, Leslie and I would counsel a couple and we would talk to them about five love languages. And then every once in a while we would get a couple, and one of them would go, Hey, I know her love language. I'm speaking it, but her love tank is not full. What's going on?
And I would go, just a minute, I'm going to call Dr. Chapman and find out what's going on in me. Dr. Chapman, one. And we had enough of those conversations to finally kind of do some research together and begin to figure out that so often that was the case because.
They didn't understand the dialect within that love language. And it was true in our own relationship, too, because I knew Leslie was words of affirmation, but sometimes I would encourage her and I would really pour it on, but it just wasn't filling up her love tank. And that mystery was solving that mystery is the result of this new book, The Love Language. Just give us one or two points there. Yeah, well, her right now are you talking about it?
Gene is words of affirmation as well. Yeah. So, well, it was encouragement, I thought, was what words of affirmation was.
So he would pour, he would literally pour it on because he knew words matter to me, right? And he would say, I believe in you. I know you can do this, whatever it was.
Well, instead of feeling loved, I just felt pressured. Like, I didn't even want to do this. You know, why are you cheering me on like that? We discovered that he thought encouragement was my pathway, my dialect, but I really respond to compliments. Speaking of humility.
No, no. But help us husbands. Yeah. When I can say to her, instead of, hey, you want to write a children's book? You'll be great at that.
You should get on that right now and get it. Yeah, that does sound like pressure.
Sorry. Exaggerate. But what were those words that did mean something, that did fill your tank? You know, if he would say, I mean, it could be the most ridiculous thing, like, oh, your eyes sparkle when you wear that sweater. Yeah.
Watch out. I'll be wearing it for the next month. You know what I mean? Because that made me feel just totally loved. And everyone knows what it's like when that reservoir in your soul fills up.
So for everybody.
Well, everybody, but I think husbands do struggle with that gauge. Yes. I don't think we read it as effectively, maybe, as wives. I don't know if you agree with that. I don't know.
I think it's wives and husbands myself because it doesn't matter. But what we discovered, Jim, is that there's three dialects. Within words of affirmation. Leslie, let me start with you. Speaking the different love languages that Gary's outlined, words of affirmation, quality time, gifts, acts of service, and physical touch.
You guys now in this book go down deeper, as you just said, less into dialects. And give us an example of what a dialect looks like within a love language. Just stick with yours, which is words of affirmation. What do the dialects of words of affirmation look like? Oh, yeah, you bet.
Because everything is in those dialects, right? It's all hidden there. The key to filling that love tank of the person you love the most because nuances are what speaks love. You know, you can't just get in the big category, like words of affirmation, and you can get a little bit of traction, but it's when you really figure out this is the pathway right to the center of my loved one's heart. That's when everything explodes.
What dialects do?
So, for instance, my dialect in words of affirmation is compliments. Les thought that encouragement was going to be the thing, but there's also appreciation. You know, some people just revel in feeling like, Oh, you noticed what I did, you saw me, you saw the contribution I made, you called that out, you see, I'm working hard, and they're they just light up with appreciation. Um, but of course, they're all lovely, we all love to receive them, but there is one that will really, really have the effect. And that's what I love about this deeper dive because I think that's true.
And I, again, you have done all three of you have done so much counseling with couples, you'll resonate with this. But just, for example, the wife and the husband in that counseling room, and the wife is saying, I don't feel seen by him, or I, it, it's. like he doesn't know me. Those are cries for fill my love tank. Yeah, right?
Absolutely. Absolutely. And then that context, I mean, is that a direction to go at that moment? To say, honey, sit down, read the book, get a better understanding. And be able to have that conversation.
What fills your tank specifically? Yeah, I think if they read the book, they're going to have much more information than they had just simply knowing what the primary love language was. Because it's going to give them more specific ways to express that particular language and really communicate to them at a heart level, which is what we're really trying to do. You know, Les, let me aim this at you, the skeptic, you know, going, really, this is psychobabble. I mean, seriously, there are some people that will think that.
But I'm sure, Gary, when you did this and formulated this, you could see Christ. doing these things with those he encountered, I would assume. And in that context, Les, you know, when we do these things, we're called as Christians to be deeply loving. We should be known in the way we love one another. That's what the Lord said.
And in doing so, this is a mechanism for us. To understand how to go deeper in love. That's exactly right. And that's why this is a follow-up to, I affectionately call it the purple book, The Five Love Languages. But what Gary did 30, how long ago was it?
33 years ago? Yeah. That book, this is the true follow-up to that.
Now, Gary has had lots of other books that have kind of come out of that from military families, blended families, and teenagers, and so forth. But this is truly the next step. Why?
Well, look at the title: The Love Language That Matters Most. I had a manuscript sitting on a table at a restaurant where I frequent in Seattle, and it had that title real big. And the server came up and she said, Oh, the love languages. What is the one that matters most? Is it words of affirmation?
Because that's mine, right? Is that the one that matters most, right? And I said, Well, they're all important and they all matter, but the one that matters most is the love language of the person that's in front of you. And that really comes back around to empathy, that capacity to recognize. What fills their love tank?
And when you can do that, and like Gary said, so much, so many times the focus is on, hey, this is my love language, so everybody love me this way, right? But when you can begin to really put yourself in another person's shoes and understand their love language, their dialect, the world doesn't get much sweeter in that relationship because now you're speaking each other's love language fluently. That's the goal. That's so good. Let's cover at least one more of the dialects.
And I think physical touch might be a good one. You know, I talked about my son Troy. Even at night, whatever he's doing, he'll come to me to say goodnight and to hug me. That's how intense his physical touch love language is. I mean, I don't know if he has any of the others, but he's got this in the highest dose.
So even now, you know, early 20s, and he'll come and give me a hug and say, goodnight, Dad. I'll see you in the morning, whatever. But it's important to him, and I know that. And he gets really disappointed. If we don't take that time at the end of the day to hug each other and say, I love you.
So, with that, what are those dialects for the physical touch person?
Well, there's more dialects on this one than any of the others.
Well, that's interesting. I actually love your question because you're talking about your son, right? And so often we think physical touch is all about romance. And there is romantic touch involved, but there's so many other kinds of touch that convey love. And there is a sort of protective touch, you know, when someone just makes sure you're safe in a, you know, in some kind of a setting, there's a playful touch, you know, there's like a celebration touch.
Someone will give you the highest. Gary and I, remember we were in Nashville just a few weeks ago together, speaking to a group, and this woman came up to us afterwards and she said, My husband knows that physical touch. Physical touch is my primary love language. And for him, he thought that meant tickling me.
Well, it could be. It was a good test. And then when she said, this isn't the way to do that. But it is. That's playful touch.
But she says, that is not, that drains my love tank.
So that's a great example of how dialect is so important to this.
So, what was her dialect then? Hers was comforting touch. She wanted a soothing touch on the back after a long day. Comfort. Right.
We were counseling. We did an intensive. Leslie and I did an intensive with a couple just this last week. I think it was 15 hours we spent with this couple in two days. And physical touch was her love language.
And do you remember what she said about going to church and how if he didn't touch her? Yeah. And, you know, if he'd be totally absorbed in the moment listening to a sermon, but didn't have just a way of connecting them with physical touch, she would feel present. If they weren't holding hands or put his hands on her hands. Hand on her knee, or whatever.
So it's a really powerful thing for people that have physical touch and to understand that dialect because you may think tickling is the way to hit that person's heart, and it is not. We've certainly had some great insight today from Drs. Les and Leslie Parrott on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly and having Dr. Gary Chapman here. My goodness, what a powerhouse of marriage experts.
Yeah, and all three of them share so much solid biblical wisdom regarding relationships. Looking at the love languages and the various dialects is always a good reminder of the variety of ways God gave us to love our spouses, right? And I hope you know Focus on the Family is here for you. As I said at the top of the program, we want you to have the best marriage you can have with your spouse. That's a good goal.
And we have lots of great resources to help you get there. You can take our marriage assessment. It's a free online quiz personalized just for you. It will give you a sense of your strengths and, as the coach always says, some areas to work on. Another solid place to start is the book we talked about today, The Love Language That Matters Most: How to Purchase.
Personalized love so they really feel it. And we'll make it easy for you when you give a gift of any amount to focus on the family. We'll send you a copy as our way of saying thank you for supporting the ministry. Your continued prayers and financial support allow us to provide much needed help to individuals, couples, and families. Over the past 12 months, through the research we do, more than 530,000 couples tell us that we have helped them build stronger marriages.
That's what we're doing. Be a part of it. Yeah, we can't do this without you, so please donate today when you call 800, the letter A and the word family. 800-232-6459. And if you'd prefer to get in touch with us online, we've got the link for the love language book and an opportunity to donate.
And that free marriage assessment, the show notes, is the starting point. On behalf of the entire team, thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we continue the conversation with Dr. Gary Chapman and Drs. Les and Leslie Parrott and once again help you and your family thrive in Christ.
Live your truth. A lot of people say that, don't they? But truth isn't something we decide. God has decided it for us. And it's our job as believers to share his truth with a world in need.
I'll encourage you to do that through my podcast, Refocus with Jim Daly. I visit with fascinating guests about important topics like gender confusion, cancel culture, and more, while helping you share God's love with others. Listen at refocus with JimDaily.com. Uh
