Your church comes to you each week to fill their cup. But when the crowd leaves, who's filling yours? That's exactly what I'm here to do with my new podcast from Focus on the Family. It's called Pastor to Pastor with Dave Stone. I'm so excited to help you navigate the unique challenges that pastors face in their ministry journey, both personally and professionally.
So, I invite you to listen and subscribe to Pastor to Pastor, wherever you get your podcasts. It's just another opportunity to understand dynamics of how to, okay, we have marriage scenario and now we have another project scenario. How do we share respect and how do we interact and how do we engage in these types of new problems?
So for us, it was really great because it allowed me to say, hey, you know, I do care about the paint color in this scenario because it's important to you, right? And that's how we should be in marriage. Things that are important to you should be important to me and I shouldn't just poo-poo them and throw them to the side.
Well, that's Dino Patrone describing how marriage is a little like remodeling your home. And we're going to hear more about that comparison today on Focus on Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller and thanks for joining us. John, I don't think I've ever considered how to apply interior design techniques to my daily life, my marriage, my family. But I remember Gene and I, we were remodeling.
I think it's the only big remodel we ever did. And with good reason, right? It's a big deal. But it was a lot more like the money pit than anything else. I mean, everything we touched broke.
And I'm looking forward to today's conversation because there is such an analogy between that remodel and what you're doing with your home and what you're doing in your spiritual life, your marriage, and everything else. I'm looking forward to it. I am too. We have Ashley and Dino Patron with us today. Dino is a software engineer, and Ashley is an interior designer.
They have four children and a podcast, and there's a website. There's a lot here that the Patrones do. The podcast and book are called Designed to Last: Our Journey of Building an Intentional Home, Growing in Faith, and Finding Joy in the In-Between. This is a terrific book, and we're going to encourage you to get a copy from us here at the ministry. The link is in the show notes.
Dino and Ashley, welcome to Focus on the Family. Thank you so much for having us.
So, yeah, like interior design and focusing on your family. How do these things connect? Yeah. Yeah. Other than a big fight.
I know, I know. Oh, yeah. Actually, that's exactly about how it started. That was your normal. Actually, it was not natural at first in terms of Ash's skill set and how her and I function together.
Oh, describe her skill set right before her eyes. Why don't we do it? This is marriage counseling. Exactly. I'll tell you all the things that you're good at.
I'll just stay here. Yeah, take it. Take it in. No, so when we first got married, Ash obviously had an amazing skill set in creative design. And it was less a skill set and it was more of a hunger and a desire to be into that space.
And it was really cool because I did not know that was necessarily something that was going to be an active part of our marriage. Marriage, but here we are, you know, 18 years old. Let's do this, Ashley. Let's go back a little bit and talk about how you guys met and what was going on, and how this amazing couple took root.
So we actually were set up by our moms. That's always a good first start. Oh, they love it and they love to tell that story to everybody. They're very proud, I'm sure. It worked for sure.
So yeah, we're a four-year age gap. And when my family lived in Washington State, his family also lived in Washington State for a few years. And our moms and our parents became friends, best friends. And years later, they decided, hey, why don't we set Dino and Ashley up? Like, Dino doesn't have a girlfriend.
I was actually dating somebody at the time for a few years and it wasn't going very well. And so we're like, why not? Why not just let's drive out to Vegas where his parents lived at the time and let's see if we can set the kids up. I thought that was going to go a different way. Let's drive out to Vegas and tie the knot at the Elvis Presley Chapel or something.
You never know. We probably would have done it. We were not too far off. We were actually engaged four weeks after that first setup.
So you had known each other a long time. Our parents had, but each other we had not.
Okay, yeah. We knew each other's families. Wow.
So, how long did you date before you were saying, hey, maybe this is a permanent thing? Yeah. No, so that weekend we hung out. I broke up with my boyfriend over the phone because I realized at that point, too, it wasn't just about Dino. It was about, okay, I was searching for something.
I was looking for something. And I realized, whoa, I could find a believer, somebody that loves the Lord, and he's cute. And, you know, like, there's no that was possible. And I was just settling at the time, and I realized that.
So after I broke up with my boyfriend, we just clicked. And over that weekend, we were in. You did describe this first 10 and a half months, I think, if I read that correctly in the book, as. Just about every day crying. 10 and a half months of crying.
Yes, yes.
Well, this was the first time.
So after we got married, it was 10 and a half months. We lived in Las Vegas together, and it was the first time I had left family. And it was the ultimate leave and cleave for sure.
So it was the best, probably one of the best things we've done. Absolutely. Yeah, we highly recommend it for how old, if you don't mind me asking, how old were you guys when you got married? I was 24 and she was 20.
Okay. We were still pretty happy.
Well, there we go. Yeah, but that's that's a good time. It was a great time. Dr. Al Moller, who used to be on the board here, Focus, talks about that very vehemently today.
That we, as Christian parents, are expecting our children to wait a long time to get married, you know, finish school, college, etc. He's like, let them get married sooner. Oh, yeah. So that they're not tempted. Absolutely.
That's not bad advice, actually. No, we're 100% encouraging our kids to basically do exactly that. We've been, yeah, pushing them down that path. We'd love them to get married early. Oh, yeah.
Now, in your case, you start crying. Because you got married early, maybe. But what was at the base of those tears? What was happening? The base of the tears was I was alone for the first time.
So the idea of getting married, it sounds amazing, young, and I love Dino. We loved each other. We had a good marriage, but we were young and still trying to figure each other out.
So all of a sudden, Dino's playing video games all the time. And I didn't know in our couple months of dating or being engaged that he even liked video games.
So there were surprises that came up with no family to run to. And we had to just figure out everything on our own.
So it's just a little bit of a shock. Right, Dino, we're going to get you in here. You're a software engineer, which means you probably like structure solving problems, maybe her problems pretty much all day long. I get that same criticism, trust me. It's like, that's a natural thing for us men to do.
Indeed. Oh, you're expressing a problem. Let me tell you how you can fix it. To which Gene's like, what? I need you to listen to me.
So I'm learning slowly. But what was your headspace at that time as a new husband? And whenever you got time, you're playing video games. Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, they say basically, a boy, you know, you're not really fully developed as a man until you're almost 30, your brain kind of thing. And I was at 24, a child basically.
So, yeah, those early years, I was just very focused on myself. And I actually didn't see any of the major benefits or look into any of the major benefits of what fruit could I get out of our marriage. It was really what is the closest dopamine kick that I could get right in front of my face.
So discipline hadn't really incorporated itself into my life at that point yet. I was more concerned about what was a quick fix versus what things can I invest in long term into my life to make it so that the longest part of my life is the most beneficial versus you know the short term. You know, in some cases, let's talk guy to guy. Yeah. You know, I think I was in front of the video craze.
I didn't have that. Issue, but news weather and sports, it's the same thing. Screen time, you know, I can just get home exhausted and want to get lost in that. I don't have to talk to it, it just talks to me. Um, speak to that space where a lot of guys, for whatever reason, the way we're wired, et cetera, tend to lean into that kind of passive thing where I can just go to my nothing box, as some people say, and just play games or watch TV and not have to interact.
Yeah, I think that it really comes down to what's going to be the quickest thing that's going to make me feel good in the moment versus what's going to be the thing that's going to help me in the long run, you know? And that's one of the big things that we advocate for now in on our podcasts is stop thinking about the short-term things that are me and think about the long-term things that are us, you know, because the Bible constantly is talking about the two shall become one. And especially in these early years, it was heavily about me and not us. And I didn't care about the benefits of what we could get. I just cared about what I could get, you know?
How long was it before you guys said maybe counseling might be helpful? How many months or years passed? Yeah, we did it right away in that 10 and a half months. We went to a counselor, and I was like, we need help. And that was good.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We had no shame in that. And it was helpful just to be able to talk about it and have a third party listen.
We went to a Christian counselor and it was good. Yeah, the two becoming one is a painful process. It's, you know, there's, yeah, there's a lot of stripping out and you have to sacrifice. Like growing and stretching.
So the counselor was great to just initially help us figure out: hey, maybe you do need to let aspects of you be removed so that the two of you can. And now that you had your marriage figured out, you thought, oh, let's have kids now. Yeah, we're good.
So you had kids pretty quick, too, right? We did. Yeah. About two years in, we had our first son, Gabriel. Yeah.
And then 16 months later? Yeah, yep. We got pregnant by surprise. Eight months later, I found out I was pregnant again. And that was fun.
So we had another boy, and they're 15 months apart. That's really cool. Yeah. You did have something that so many couples can connect. With which miscarriage with number three.
Just describe how did that impact you? How did you get through that and keep moving? That was difficult because we didn't know that I could have a miscarriage. You know, I'm young, didn't really talk to a lot of people about being pregnant.
Well, I've had two successful pregnancies. And I had two successful pregnancies.
So I thought, I don't have miscarriages.
So I was very sick, and we lost the baby at what, 11 or 12 weeks. And that was. Devastating, obviously, but it was also a time where my parents were lovely to us and they took the two boys. We were able to just have a couple of days for me to have the miscarriage at home and for us to just connect together and really just. Have peace with the Lord during that time.
It was a time for us to just count it all joy and just, I think the Lord really showed us that through that time.
Well, it was the first time in our marriage where we had been riding high. Yeah. Our whole marriage, we had been riding high. Everything's all aces. Every time we did anything, it was going great.
You know, we were on this beautiful, slow, steady up, you know, things are going greater. And then this was the first big punch in the gut that we had received. And looking back on it, it was an amazing opportunity for Ash and I to bond and figure out how to navigate the hard things like that. You know, let me ask you this because, you know, you have two broad responses to things that are tough in life. Either you get bitter and resentful, or you lean into it and say, okay, Lord, what is it I can learn from this?
Sounds like you guys did choose that, but it's not easy. And then I think the question is more: speak to the value of the valley. I love that concept, that metaphor, because mountaintop people are not very deep, in my opinion. If all you've gone through is mountaintop experience, mountaintop experience, that's a great thing. It's a blessing.
But I think. They don't know themselves well, would be my observation. It's almost like when you go through a valley, you go through a trial. That's where the Lord shows up, and that's where you lean into Him. For that person listening or viewing right now.
Yeah, that was probably our first difficult time, but it was not the last. Many. That has been our 19 years of marriage, is that verse is finding joy in the in-between and counting it all joy in those trials because that has been our marriage. But the Lord has equipped, Dino and I, with this ability to be able to see him and see what he's doing through it. Use us too and the things that we're going through to show.
Who he is and give him glory.
So, yes, I think I know there is a depth in those valleys that you cannot get anywhere else. And it is one of the greatest gifts. That's why our faith is so strong is because we've seen what he's done through those valleys. I want to back that truck up a little bit because it sounds like, yeah, have joy in all things. But you guys had to figure that out.
It wasn't like you had magic dust sprinkled over you. I mean, these are things as a Christian, you mature into. And I think in the book, you talked a lot about your desire to change each other. Hey, there's a revelation. Welcome to marriage.
How much can I change you? And you really need to change to make my life a lot easier.
So speak to that moment of trying to change each other. And how did you learn that maybe that's not the place to start? Yeah. You were the one who instigated this probably the most in our marriage, to be honest. Was I the one that wanted to change?
No.
Well, I was really ready to change, Dino, everything about him. No more gaming. Wait, you used to run marathons when we were dating, and now you don't work out at all. Where's your discipline? You know, just all the things that I could nitpick and nag about him.
I was right there, ready to go. Let me, maybe for husbands, if you could speak to us, why is that such an issue in marriage? I mean, I think both try to change each other. I'm not trying to present it differently. It just seems a little more important, perhaps, to the wives that you change, Mr.
Husband. Would it be maybe just a need for control, just wanting to control things? And we feel that it also could be like a motherly instinct, too, that I feel like I have to fix, I have to change, I have to bring this along. Or honestly, it could be just the sin of Eve, you know, that I feel like I have to convince Dino to do something. Let me ask you, though, in that context, you're speaking on behalf of all women.
There we go. You know, I think my. Experience with Gene, she has made me a much better man just out of those disciplines. you know, just you know, r raising for me my lack of spiritual awareness. You know, it'd be good to pray together.
It'd be good to read the word together. Seriously, I mean, she has made me so much stronger in that way. But it did You know, I don't think we're near perfect, but we have had to progress in that way. Speak to that dynamic. There is a healthiness to that open dialogue to say, Hey, you know what?
Can you get with the program a little bit? Yeah, absolutely.
So, what I realized and God was showing me was that, you know, let me change Dino, let me work on Dino and do these things. You don't have to do that. And I thought, wow, I actually don't want to do that. And I don't want to be Dino's mom. And what a burden I was carrying around trying to do that.
So you're right. Yes, I can let the Lord do that. And He does it way better than I ever could. And then I can come alongside Dino and I can be His encourager and His supporter and that you know helpful voice, His partner. You know, that's so good.
This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. And today we're talking to Ashley and Dino Patron. And they have a great website called Arrows and Bow. They've got a podcast. They've got a lot of different things online.
And they're really all about being transparent, as you're hearing, and encouraging couples. And so get a copy of the book, learn more about the marriage help we have. Stop by focusonthefamily.com/slash broadcast. You know, let me ask you that opening we talked about, the money pit. I'm assuming you saw the movie.
You grew up on that. You grew up on that. So, I mean, that just for the listeners, I mean, this is something you've been doing is the fixer-uppers and those kinds of things. Yeah. It's funny because it's rooted in reality.
That's why we all laugh. That's why the movie was made. Yeah. Because this is what happens to couples. You get into this thing and then it's gya.
It's this instant friction. It is. Why does that environment of remodeling a home, building a home, et cetera, why does that bring out Kind of like the ugly parts of us. Yeah. Yeah, I've honestly seen it in us for sure, especially on the first few projects because we're trying to figure out each other's roles.
It's a totally different atmosphere now. Marriage is, hey, how can we be roommates and raise kids? Doing a home is, hey, how can you and I work in completely different roles doing a very difficult project together, right?
So this, for us, it was really hard because we both wanted to be in the driver's seat on different roles or we both wanted to drive at the same time on things.
So it took some time, especially on these first few projects, for us to figure out, hey, who's doing what? Where do we best? How do we best complement each other? Yeah, but then once you figure that out, it's like, oh, again, I don't want to be in, let you do the things that you're strong at and let me do the things that I'm strong at. And then we work so well together.
That's hard to do, though. And I guess that metaphor is really it. Who's in the driver's seat? I mean, that is a great question that pops up. You know, I thought I was the one that got to pick the colors.
Why are you picking the colors? I thought I decided the doorknob types, right? Yeah. And it creates this instant friction. But it would be, I would think, probably.
An illustration of things that are deeper in your relationship. Yeah, you know, there's definitely a balance there because we want to be able to figure out what each other's strong points are and be able to work with those things. And then I also want to make sure that the things that matter to me are important to Dino, and the things that are important to Dino are important to me. And so, even in a home remodel, especially in renovating, that is important because I'm going to care about things that he's not going to care about at all. He doesn't care about the paint color, but at least he can come along and you know, act like he does or try to invest in it.
Yeah, it's just another opportunity to understand dynamics of how to, okay, we have a marriage scenario, and now we have another project scenario. How do we share respect and how do we interact and how do we engage in these types of new problems?
So, for us, it was really great because it allowed me to say, Hey, you know, I do care about the paint color in this scenario because it's important to you, right? And that's how we should be in marriage. Things that are important to you should be important to me, and I shouldn't just poo-poo them and throw them to the side. Yeah. Tell me about how you've parlayed this into a ministry.
I mean, this is what's really interesting. Yeah, well, you know, the beauty of social media and doing things online, I started my Instagram page and my blog years ago with design, and I had zero thoughts about having it be a part of a ministry at all. And it's just funny how God kind of uses the things that he's equipped us with and the gifts that he's given us. And he's like, well, actually, I gave you these gifts so that this could be a feeder for those things. While the design stuff kind of brings people in, then they're actually seeing the root and the meat behind everything in our lives.
So yeah, that just kind of started when we moved into a trailer, I guess, it really started to come about. Yeah, let's talk about the trailer. This is funny.
So you guys decided you bought a piece of land, you sold your house and bought an RV. But your experience was... Yeah, so we were in this really comfortable phase of our lives, and we said, Hey, let's blow all this up and sell everything and then move into a trailer and live on land. This will be a great idea. And the idea was initially, oh, well, we'll build a house in like eight months and we'll be done.
You know, we were delusional and we got bad advice and thought, you know, this will be really quick. Um, a year and a half later, we were all had done basically nothing but move dirt around kind of thing. But in that year and a half, we realized it was not about building the house. God used the opportunity for us to go and be put through a harder scenario and go and work through difficult problems together to help us grow and figure out marriage differently. You know, and in that process, did it teach you to Manage your arguments better, I guess, is the same thing.
Please tell us how. I mean, we were stripped away of everything that made us comfortable and everything that Dino loved. You know, he loved video games. There was no room for video games in the trailer. I loved buying things.
There was no room to store things. Because you had like 180 square feet. It was 180 square feet. Our three kids lived there. Everybody had a bunk and a bin.
Like, that was it. That was all the stuff you had. You had one dish, one everything. Yeah. We even had to figure out how we were going to argue.
Yes, exactly. There were no places to argue.
So we had to do it in that space. And you had to figure things out. You couldn't just like storm off to the other side of the house. There was no other side of the house. It's less impactful when you slam a sliding door, then you can still see your feet.
I know. And you actually did that. We did do that. You tried. Yes.
And then you just start laughing because it's like, I can see your feet over there. It's like, what are we doing?
Okay, let's just talk about this.
Well, you did find, despite the arguing and even the kind of the death of that dream, you found contentment. You alluded to it, Dino, but talk about the bigger thing there underneath all of that. Yeah, when you're stripped away of all the, like, we put ourselves in a scenario where, again, video games, gone. The ability to run away when we're having an argument, gone. The ability to have all of our comforts, gone.
And that just brings you into this refinement phase. And then you start to look for, well, where is our joy? What are the good things in our marriage? that we want to cultivate. And then let's put our foot on the gas on those things.
Let's really start to see what could happen if we really invested in our marriage. At the same time, I started to have a very deep desire and joy in discipline, just in physical disciplines, and started, which was ironic because this was something that Ash had been trying to, you know, push on me. She's praying hard. Yeah. So she's giving you physical discipline CPR.
She took that first breath.
Well, she got out of the way. Instead of nagging, she said, hey, what if? You just, I encourage you and say you do what you want to do, but I'm going to give you a high five if you're doing great. And if not, then I'm still going to be here and love you for no matter how you're going to do this. And it just made me desire to like, well, what happens if I actually am the man that she kind of needs?
And what if I start to like change who I am to make it so that her and I could be something that's different together? And then once you start getting the benefits of those types of things, then it just becomes really easy, you know?
So that's a great example of your direction. Let's go with Ashley. What's something that was Dino ever saying, here's something you could do to. Improve? Yeah, I mean, what drastically changed during that time in our marriage as well is I went to a Bible study and I had gone to it every year, it was like a mom's group, but she said something very impactful to me that just was the getting out of the way and letting God do what He needed to do in your husband.
And then to focus your thoughts and your mind and your words on the things that you love and adore about your husband and not to have negative thoughts about him. And so that just clicked and it was just a game changer in myself and then in our marriage. And from there, I think a lot of things changed. Ashley, let me, you know, you probably end up mentoring a lot of women.
So let me ask the question on behalf of those women that are going, yeah, yeah, that must have been easy for you and Dino. Yeah. You don't know my husband. Yeah. You know, how do you get out, practically speaking, how do you get out of that habit?
Because it. Comes so easily to the flesh. It does. Let me criticize the ways that I observe you. It's just me.
It's the first thing off our tongue. I know. I know. I mean, the Bible says to hold our thoughts captive, and it is doing that. It's a discipline of the mind.
And it's when something pops up, it's no, I love Dino, and I love that he, you know, the great dad that he is. And even if you can't think of things that you, you know, really love and adore, you can think of things that you really love and adore. Like you can dig deep and find things about that person. You did marry them. I mean, you did marry them.
So there are things there if they aren't the obvious things. And then make those things can become the obvious things again, you know? But you have to start with the mind and you really just have to reading your Bible, talking with the Lord, and holding those thoughts captive.
Well, let's land here. A major theme in your book, Designed to Last, is how you don't want to settle for what's comfortable. I think everybody's heard that as we've had our dialogue here. Dino, in fact, you felt like God gave you a vision about choosing. The more difficult path, which is unusual.
You know, it's very proverb-esque, but how has that approached? Played out in your marriage and family, that the more difficult path has been the better path. Yeah, I feel adamant that when by choosing to do the hard things in life, You get significant better improvements in your life out of it. And just having being a man who has the ability to do hard things is a skill set that I want to be able to, that's the man who I want to be, you know. And in looking at our marriage, I had not done very difficult things up until that point.
I, and I wanted to be pushed harder. And I was before the Lord just saying, Lord, what would you want me to do in this scenario? And it was purely, he spoke to my heart and said, You can go which way you want to go here. I'm not going to force you down a path, but I have something that's different that is a harder path, but there's some really cool stuff on this. Do you want to go down this with me?
And it was just that posture of my heart of saying, I do. I want to go and do fun stuff alongside you. What cool things do you want to go do? Even if it's hard, I'm down to go do that, you know? And it was amazing.
It has been incredibly fruitful. Yeah, that's so good. Ashley, I can't give Dino the last word.
So, you guys have moved from California to Florida. How are the kids doing? How are you guys doing overall? They're. Amazing.
They've loved living in Florida. And now we actually have another life shift: we're actually moving to Tennessee.
So in two days. Hey join the country. I know. Exactly. Is it going to be Franklin?
We're actually going out next week and just praying. We don't know, but we feel like the Lord's pushing us there somewhere in Tennessee.
So we're just going and praying.
So like 20 realtors just heard that.
So they'll be calling you.
So give them a call. But this has been great. What a wonderful discussion. Kind of in that lightheartedness, but there were some heavy gems in here about how to love each other better as a married couple. You guys have learned that.
And thanks for writing the book and for passing it on. We appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you so much for having us.
Yeah, I'll be online looking at some of your homes and everything. Do you guys still have that little hotel down in Florida? What's the name of it? Jois Inn. It means joy.
Joy. It's great. I'll have to check that out too. We love vacationing down there.
Well, listen, if you are in that spot, designed to last, our journey of building an intentional. Home, growing in faith, and finding joy in between. It's perfect. I mean, what a great way to invest not only in buildings and homes and things like that, but most importantly, in your family and particularly your marriage.
So get a hold of us, make a gift of any amount, and we'll send it as our way of saying thank you. Yeah, contact us today, donate generously as you can. Our number is 800AFAMILY, and online. You'll find the links to do that in the show notes.
Well, we hope you have a great weekend with your family and your church family as well, and plan to join us on Monday for a really fascinating conversation with Dr. Erwin Lutzer about overcoming bad habits, temptation, and sin. He provided the foundation for which there can be spiritual victory. It doesn't mean that the battle is going to end. What it does mean is We can begin to live differently.
We can have a brand new beginning. Thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once more help you and your family thrive in Christ. Sprinkle some love into your marriage this month with the Loving Well podcast from Focus on the Family. I'm Aaron Smalley, and I host the podcast with my husband, Dr.
Greg Smalley, and our good friend, John Fuller. We chat about how to put Christ at the center of your relationship, deepen your love, and have a marriage that truly thrives. Listen today at focusonthefamily.com/slash lovingwell or wherever you get your podcasts.
