Your church comes to you each week to fill their cup. But when the crowd leaves, who's filling yours? That's exactly what I'm here to do with my new podcast from Focus on the Family. It's called Pastor to Pastor with Dave Stone. I'm so excited to help you navigate the unique challenges that pastors face in their ministry journey, both personally and professionally.
So, I invite you to listen and subscribe to Pastor to Pastor, wherever you get your podcasts. Yeah. Picture Jesus, crown of thorns on his head, dying for the sins of the world and that spouse's sins, and then picture their spouse standing. Right there, across from them, at the cross of Jesus. And the spouse says, I'm sorry, I hurt you by.
Being unfaithful or saying ABC. And they always ask the humility part and the most important part in the forgiveness process is: will you please forgive me? Hmm. Dr. Randy Schrader with a very powerful statement about the importance of forgiveness in marriage.
He's back with us today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. We're exploring how bad habits and good habits can have a profound impact on your relationship in marriage. Thanks for joining us today. I'm John Fuller. You know, it's so important.
Having a strong marriage should be a goal for every couple, certainly Christian couples. And I was really pleased with the discussion last time. It touched on so many fundamentally True things about who we are as human beings, what the Bible says about us, and then how to integrate that into a healthy marriage and work on that marriage so it can be a 10. And man, we're all for that here at Focus on the Family. If you didn't listen to the episode last time, get the app for the smartphone.
You'll have access to all the broadcasts that we do. And man, you can go to the website too and get a download there for that episode. But we don't want you to not get the tools that you need to have the strongest marriage you could possibly have. And we're going to continue the discussion today and dig in with more practical advice on how to make your marriage what it needs to be. And Dr.
Randy Schrader has compiled that advice into a really helpful book. We mentioned last time we come back to this time and time again. It's such strong material. It's called Simple Habits for Marital Happiness: Practical Skills and Tools That Build a Strong and Satisfying Relationship. You can get your copy of the book.
And as Jim said, listen to that first part of the discussion if you missed it by clicking the link in the show notes. Randy, welcome back to Focus on the Family. Always good to have you. I'm grateful for this second opportunity to strengthen marriages. We left off last time talking about when a person has a heart attack, the first thing that the caregivers will do is CPR to try to revitalize that heart, get that heart pumping again so they can do the other life-saving things they need to do.
But job one is to make sure that heart is beating again. You kind of applied that, you did apply that to marriages as well using CPR. Describe the acronym for marriage and how it's used, and then let's get into some questions about it. That is especially important with in-law relationships. I always suggest that there are kind of four types of relationships: acquaintances, friends.
Friends, good friends, close friends. And so a lot of times I'll have married couples say, you know, I'm not real. fond of my mother or father-in-law. And I'll say view them like an acquaintance. And as you just mentioned, CPR.
What they would do is when they get together with their in-laws, they would be civil. Polite and respectful, and we can do that with strangers, you know, just acquaintances. And that has helped so many in-law relationships that I've seen in my practice to keep that thought in mind. Just CPR the relationships. You may not ever get to the point of good friends or close friends, but that will make the relationships healthy.
No, that's good. I was playing golf not long ago with a guy, and he missed the green. And he goes, That's a son-in-law shot. And I said, What's that? He goes, Close, but not what I was hoping for.
So I better stop repeating that one. But that's kind of what you're talking about, right? Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Be more civil.
Don't tell a joke on your son-in-law. I was surprised by your assessment that interruptions may be the number one predictor. Oh, my goodness. This is my weakest link. I read this this morning when, you know, I sit in the chair and read the prep, look at the book, have my coffee.
Jean comes down, she wakes up, she sits next to me. We try to do a little devotional time after I'm done reading the prep and all that.
Okay. And I read this to her and she just smiled because I do that. I finish sentences for her. And I said, You know, I feel like it shows you that I'm engaged. And she goes, No, it's rude.
No, it's me being engaged. It's like, I don't know, whoever burps after a meal. It's gross to us in America, but in Germany, it's a compliment. But speak to the person, and I think it's because I'm just thinking with her. And if she's a little slow to the trigger, let me fill that in for you.
I love you because I'm such a great guy. No, I wasn't going to say that. But I, I, so, so, help us, our, you know, those of us that are verbal, sure, to slow down, let your spouse finish their thought. And that actually shows respect. And this is another excellent question about interruptions, and it's interesting.
And my book is grounded in research and biblical principles.
Now, I did not. Include all the research studies in my book. I didn't want it to be a great big thick book, but they did a research study on premarital couples and they discussed. A differing opinion, you know, kind of a disagreement. And then they coded their communication for, I think it was an hour and 15 minutes.
And then they came back five years later. to find which of those couples were unhappy. which were separated, which were even divorced, you know, before five years. And what they discovered as the common denominator were interruptions. Because when we interrupt, we need to turn up the volume, To get our point across.
And so, in answer to your question, and we all can do that, I can do that. You guys are great communicators, and so it's easy. To interrupt and want to get our point out there, and we just need to pause, pause, pause. For 25 years, I was a professor of pastoral counseling at Concordia Theological Seminary, and I always suggested to pastors when your parishioner is talking. Wait ten seconds before you respond.
Wow, that's a long time. Long time. Just because maybe your parishioner wants to continue on and they're just thinking. And so that pause, pause, pause is there. But it also helps the three of us and your listeners learn to avoid interruptions.
Uh because interruptions, again, are that big predictor That can create unhappiness, and it kind of says we're not listening well.
Well, I want to punch the point here. You said it's the number one predictor where I would have thought doing what we do every day here at Focus On the family, it'd be lack of emotional or physical intimacy, finances, et cetera. But these researchers said no, it's interruptions. Wow. This was just this research study.
Yeah. Wow. Yeah. Oh, yeah. That really put my problem at the top of the list.
I really don't like that. Let me say it that way. We all can struggle with that, Jim. Especially, you know, again, you're a good communicator, and yeah, it can be a struggle. But okay, Gene, I will work on this.
Honestly, I'll work on this. 10 seconds, right? Right. Give her 10 seconds in between her thoughts. Make sure she's completed that thought.
Exactly. I'll have her grade me on this over the next until you come back. Five years. How about five years, Jim? Listen, I like your advice, too, about being solution-focused in marriage.
I think that's helpful. I tend to be driven by goal orientation, so solutions are really important to me. What does a solution-focused approach look like in a marriage relationship? I think it's absolutely essential. Another great question that couples, well, what do they say in the business world?
Don't bring me a problem. Unless you have a solution. And so we just need to take that over to the marriage world, where if Jenny has a hurt with me or a disappointment, which she does, she needs to give me a chance to fix it and she can put out there a solution. Uh and and so I talk about the speak the truth in love formula in my book. In Ephesians 4, God tells all of us: speak the truth.
and the two words in love.
So, you know. A spouse would say, when I Heard you say this. I felt Hurt or disappointed because give the reasons. And then the final point is the will you please solution. Will you please say it this way?
Or will you please do this?
So, yeah, we need to be solution-focused. Randy, let me ask you this question. And I think men struggle with this more than women. And when you say it that way, it's like going to a counselor. You go to a marriage counselor, and the person is saying accurately, you know, when you have conflict, Jim, I'll just use myself, you know, address Jean by saying exactly what you just said.
It sounds brilliant. It sounds wonderful, but it's not what I'm thinking in the moment. And, you know, how do we train ourselves? To be able to slow down enough emotionally, because your gears start spinning, your defense mechanisms go up, all those things that occur in a marital. discussion And you don't remember to say.
Here's what I heard. Here's what it sounded like to me. This is how you hurt me. How do we get there? Counseling thousands of couples, you must see a formula in there that works.
Sure. Do people have to rehearse that? How do you capture that? Thing you don't want to say, like Paul writes about, the things I don't want to do, I do, and the things I shouldn't do, I, you know.
So the The whole thing there, how do you train yourself to do this brilliant Breathing exercise emotionally. Yeah. Jim, I always say we can't read minds, but you read my mind because we do need to rehearse. And I'll just say when I use that with my lovely wife, Jenny. I'll just turn the sound off in the car.
And I'll practice it in the car. You know, Ginny, when I saw you forget to do this, I felt disappointed because we need to remember: will you please write it down? or something like that. But I do exactly what you just suggested, Jim. I just rehearse it away from her out loud.
Out loud, not thinking in my mind, so that I say it very lovingly to her. Yeah. You know, you speak also in the book about timeouts, now parenting timeouts. We really moved to that. You know, instead of the spankings at some point, you know, I remember spanking Trent.
For hitting Troy. And Trent is so smart. I don't know how old he was, six, seven, I don't know, but he was mistreating Troy. And I gave him a SWAT for it. And he's like, Dad, why do you hit me?
Because I'm hitting Troy. Right? That's pretty smart. Oh, yeah. And that's Trent.
And that moved you along to timeouts. That moved me more to timeouts. And I was big on, you know, taking away a toy that he really liked or putting him in a timeout. That was pretty effective as well. I think Super Nanny talked about that as well.
But you apply timeouts in marriage. Describe how that can work in a healthy way. Timeouts are critical. For a marriage, so they don't have harsh endings. In fact, another research study, I've done tons of research reading, said that harsh endings.
Are the number one predictor for divorce. And so we don't want to have harsh endings to differing opinions. We want to have, like you mentioned earlier, Jim solutions. We want to find solutions. And so when a couple is discussing a differing opinion, If something is said, or it's a facial expression, or something is done.
The spouse who felt that hurt. Would use one of two words. You know, that's a pinch. Or the other word is that's you know the ouch, that hurt. And so if that is said a couple of times, pincher ouch.
Well, the spouse who said pincher outs, if it happened again, where the one spouse was disrespectful in tone of voice or words or facial expression, they would literally use the athletic timeout and just take a break. And then when they're apart, I always suggest to couples that they try to write down again in one sentence, one sentence, what the differing opinion is. Then talk about areas of agreement. What do we agree on as a possible solution? and then pray about it.
And then maybe offer other solutions that have not come up. But the timeout could be 30 minutes, it could be an hour, it could be, we'll wait till the next day. and talk about this again. But I like that formula of writing it down and What's a different way we can approach this or solutions to the problem? That's good.
That's really good. Hey, I love this one too. You warn husbands and wives not to be a schnauzer. You know, I think I'm connected with word association. That works for my brain.
So how do we avoid, well, A, what is a schnauzer? And B, how do we avoid it? A schnauzer is kind of putting their nose in the other partner's business a lot and being critical and complaining.
Now, there's got to be, just describe that because I think in marriage, I mean, that's also described as intimacy.
So how do you know where that line is where, you know, you're kind of putting your nose into my business in an area that really should be off limits to you? That kind of sounds funny because we're one flesh. Yeah, yeah.
Well, going back to yesterday, a great question again when we talked about forgiveness. Too many couples view hurts as either minor infractions or major felonies, which means that it's necessary to talk about all hurts. And so, what I talk about in Simple Habits for Marital Happiness are scratches, cuts, and lacerations. If we scratch ourselves working around the house, We don't. Do anything to fix it.
We know it's going to leave a faint scab and it'll heal up on its own. No big deal. We just let it go. If we cut ourselves, we'll put an ointment and a band-aid on it. If we get a laceration much deeper, then we may have to go get a stitch or two.
And so I always suggest: so couples or spouses are not snauzers, you know, always complaining, I ask them to recognize that scratches occur and let those go.
Now, we all have our own dictionaries. What's a scratch to a husband may be a cut to a wife, let's say, okay, or in different marriages. And so I suggest to couples that they evaluate their concerns, that they don't They check objectively how often am I the four C's correcting? criticizing, complaining, or condemning my spouse. And I often, if there is a schnauzer in a marriage relationship, I'll say, I would like for both of you to go three days.
and not do any of the four C's. No corrections, no complaints, no criticism, no condemnation. And let's see what that does for your marriage.
So that uh and and and that uh now there could be some cuts and lacerations happening those three days, but they let it go. You know, and but it hopefully helps them understand the importance. We've got to learn that if something is annoying. Uh Jenny, she may not bring it up to my attention, or my wife, Jenny, and vice versa. And, Dr.
Schrader, as we look at common flashpoints for marriages here at Focus, we get a lot of phone calls from couples struggling with finances. It's not coming in, they're not managing it well. You've got some pretty simple approaches to kind of reducing the stress in marriage when it comes to finances. Yes, yes. There are a number of them, and I certainly a beginning point, I think.
It's really. beneficial for couples to have a joint checking account.
So there's not his money, her money, and our money, kind of three accounts. Because when it works like that, sometimes it feels like a business partnership. Rather than a, as God says, the two shall be one, a one flesh union. Plus, it overcomes what we talked about the other day: no secrets. You know, to have that joint checking account prevents secrets.
Uh because they both know the income and the outgo. Yeah, but if I want to buy that special gift and not let her know about it. No, I'm teasing. I think that's great advice. You also talk about take three, a method to help limit couples from impulse spending.
Yeah, impulse spending. Describe that so everybody knows what you're talking about. There is compulsive buying disorder, compulsive spending disorder, whatever you want to call it. And it's real. Oh, it's real.
It's an addiction where our spouse says, I have to spend money today in order to feel good about myself. I think couples that don't experience that are kind of aghast that that's how someone could operate. But, you know, again, this is just out-of-control buying habits, right? Yeah, well, it's an addiction. It's an addiction.
I mean, I saw a couple that the husband owned the business made $300,000 a year. And they were in debt. Yeah. He couldn't keep up with their spending.
Now, it happens on that flip side, too, where the husband can be a compulsive spend. Randy, and you're a counselor, and you get this, but describe for us those underlying things. These are symptoms of other things typically. Sure. Addictions of all sorts.
It could be pornography. It could be impulsive buying. It could be lying. But these are the outcomes of something going on deeper in that person's soul, really. Connect those dots for us a little bit.
Well, it is a. personal issue we talked about the the vinegar In the apple, it doesn't work well. Yeah, and I kind of boil it down to two words: have to. You know, if a spouse says, I have to drink today. to feel better.
I have to gamble on that sports game. to make myself feel good and and uh and then they develop a gambling addiction. I have to spend money and go out shopping. And so uh have-tos are addictions that can create problems. And so going back to that take three, I think, especially with major purchases, or it could be with minor purchases, if a spouse has a spending addiction, they need to take three days or three weeks or three months before buying something.
And so it kind of slows them down.
So every day they're not. Spending money. Is there, again, I'm just thinking to myself, I tend to buy the big ticket items usually in our house. You know, I'm talking about washing machines. Jean will say, Yeah, the washer's going out.
And she does do this as well, but we'll tend to do research or something like that. But when I'm ready to go, I'm ready to go. And I don't think it's impulse spending. I think it's just efficiency, right? I mean, but you know, and I'm not going out and buying a car without her knowing about it, but kind of describe that.
You get enough information, you go. Sure, sure. And I also say when it comes to take three, if. a couple's having issues with spending, maybe they involve three friends or three family members to kind of say, you know, what are some good pros and cons with let's say you mentioned a car, a big ticket item. You know, and somebody's an expert in cars.
You know, what do you think about me getting this Car. And now, those three family members or friends are not involved. in the discussion process, but they kind of say, hey, these are my thoughts, these are the pros and cons I see. And then the couple takes that information and then they talk together, is this purchase Within the budget? Is it a want?
Is it a need? And Is this beneficial for our marriage? You also believe there are some simple habits that will bond couples together in powerful ways. For example, sharing laughter together. I like this.
Humor does a lot to cover up. Pain in marriage. I think most of your funny comedians come from places of pain, actually. It's really interesting to look at comedians' backgrounds because they're often hardship and things in there. But healthy kind of humor and just taking life with a little bit of, let me say, sugar, not salt.
Yeah. And understanding hard things happen and where we can laugh. Let's laugh together. Yeah. Yeah.
Laughter removes the stress in life. And you too, Jim and John, have a terrific sense of humor. John, you and I were visiting before the broadcast that your mom had a good sense of humor and was teasing you today as you talked to her on the phone. How does that make you feel, Jim? It really is pretty fun to see.
That's good. That's probably where you got your sense of humor is from your mom. But yeah, humor is absolutely essential. And what laughter is, good medicine. Yeah.
Hey, Randy, let's close with this. You believe a strong and healthy. marriage is built on shared faith where couples read their Bible, pray together. I think that's critical. We're seeing that in the marriage data that we're doing.
You want to have the most rewarding marriage. Go to church together, read the word together, pray together regularly. It doesn't have to be every day, but several times a week. And I'll tell you, Gene and I have been really good at that since being in COVID and coming out of COVID. We've kept that practice.
Good for you. And it really develops intimacy. And I think the lowest divorce rates among all people, all marriages, are people that practice those three things. Go into church, pray. Praying together and reading the word together.
So true. And that, yeah, those research studies have proven those facts. And one of the things I think we need to keep in mind, and maybe your listeners are saying, I don't know how to pray. You know, how do I pray with my spouse? I never saw my mom and dad pray together.
My mom and dad didn't teach me how to pray, or we had just wrote prayers that we did. And so, what I suggest to all couples is that there's three parts to prayer. You know, dear God, our Father in heaven. Heavenly Father, and the second part. Is expressing gratefulness to God for certain blessings or petitions, whatever.
And then the third part, of course, is in Jesus' name. Jesus is our mediator, takes all of our prayers to our Heavenly Father. And so, what I do in counseling, I'll have couples hold hands and I ask them to limit. to one sentence.
So it doesn't become a competition. Yeah, one spouse may be good at praying and could go on for paragraphs and the other spouse is intimidated.
So I'll have them hold hands. And I'll have the husband go first, and I'll just have him say, Dear God, dear God, bless our marriage. In Jesus' name, amen. And he says that. Other than I'll have, say, the wife say, Dear God.
Bless us with good health. In Jesus' name, amen. And then I ask them at home to do that every day, and they alternate. But I stress, you only get to say one sentence.
So again, it's not intimidating, it is unbelievable. How that has developed.
Now I say other times during the day. If one of you or both of you want to pray and pray in paragraphs, that's fine.
Okay, but for somebody who's never observed prayer in the home, you know, they were raised by parents that never prayed. And now all of a sudden they're supposed to learn how to pray. It is a big stress relief and it strengthens their oneness in Christ. And so that one, that three-part prayer, one sentence, makes a huge difference in a marriage relationship based on the facts you just shared while go, Jim. Yeah, very good, Randy.
And this has been great, kind of like rocket fuel. This isn't just cheap premium gas. You've provided the rocket fuel we need to have happy and holy marriages. And I'm so grateful for your insights. And this is the resource that you need, folks.
It is so practical and so straightforward. Really process-minded, Randy. I know that's how you think. I mean, the title of the book couldn't be more clear. Simple habits for marital happiness.
Who doesn't want that? We'll send you a copy when you make a pledge of any amount to the ministry. Partner with us today to help strengthen more marriages and even rescue couples who are on the brink of divorce. Yeah, and Jim, I was looking at a comment that we had from one of our Hope Restored. Couples.
They attended the marriage intensive, and this is a several-day process for couples who are facing serious problems. And one couple said, We walked through the doors of the retreat center broken and disconnected, and the Lord met us there. Thanks be to God for His sweet presence and the Holy Spirit's powerful work. We're leaving here encouraged and hopeful.
Now, isn't it amazing what God will do when we turn our hearts over to Him? It's that simple, and we want to make it that easy. We have many more testimonies just like that, miracle stories from couples who have participated in Hope Restored. And that's what your monthly support of Focus on the Family provides: hope for those hurting couples, and practical resources like our online marriage assessment and our counseling team, and more, more, more.
So, a monthly pledge really helps the ministry do more ministry or a one-time gift. Anything and everything helps. Donate today as you can. Our number is 800, the letter A in the word family. 800-232-6459.
Or donate and get Randy's book and learn more about the resources that we've mentioned, including Hope Restored, and the links are in the show notes. Randy, again, thank you so much for being with us. To God be the glory. Thanks for having me. Coming up tomorrow, we'll hear how a growing wave of faith in Christ is having a tremendous impact on today's culture.
You have to be honest, coming to faith can absolutely an intellectual component of that is often very important for people, but there's also a spiritual component where you have to let your guard down and you have to open yourself up to the possibility that God may be the thing you were looking for all along. And when that happens, when the head and the heart meet, that can be just the most extraordinary thing. Thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller, inviting you back next time as we once more help you and your family thrive in Christ. Your church comes to you each week to fill their cup.
But when the crowd leaves, who's filling yours? That's exactly what I'm here to do with my new podcast from Focus on the Family. It's called Pastor to Pastor with Dave Stone. I'm so excited to help you navigate the unique challenges that pastors face in their ministry journey, both personally and professionally.
So, I invite you to listen and subscribe to Pastor to Pastor, wherever you get your podcasts. Mm-hmm.
