Uh Kimberly struggled for 10 years in an unhappy marriage filled with conflict, addiction, and so much anger. Kimberly was ready to walk away, but God used our ministry to transform her heart. The podcast and all the focus on the family resources was like the hands and feet of Jesus in that moment, in those moments, because it's like, we're arguing. We don't even know how to pray. We don't know where to go in the Bible.
As Kimberly and her husband rebuilt their marriage, we were part of their healing process. Focus on the Family was like the well of wisdom that we can always go to. I'm Jim Daly. Every day, people reach out to Focus on the Family for help with their marriages, their parenting, and their faith. In their most desperate hour, you can help deliver hope and joy to these families.
Give by December 31st, and your gift will be doubled. Donate today at focusonthefamily.com/slash family. When we put up the Christmas tree every year, my family loves looking at all the ornaments we've gathered from. Places we've been to, or things we've done in other years.
So, my favorite memory is. the extra gift. One Christmas we had a piece of furniture really that we hid behind the couch at my parents' house and Christmas is over, but wait, there's one more gift. Those are fun memories. And what about you?
Do you have some special traditions or memories that your family is anticipating for Christmas this year? Welcome to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller, and we're so glad you've joined us today. John, some people have to be thinking, Christmas already, it's just the day after Thanksgiving. But hey, here we are.
It's time to rev up the engine and get going. And I know there's going to be a lot of stuff happening between now and Christmas Day.
Some great stuff. We're going to honor the Lord, I hope. And we're also going to bless people with gifts. Do you remember when the kids were little and how they would get up early? I didn't find out until a couple of years ago.
The boys used to get up early and kind of just peek under the wrapping. Oh, I didn't even know it. They were so good at it. I mean, I'm talking like 20 years ago now. Oh, my goodness.
I'm thinking, why did you even tell me? I thought we were so slick, mom. The heist of a lifetime. And yet we have to come back to what's most important, and that's the story of Christmas, the idea that God gave his only son for the entire world to have salvation. Yeah, and we have David and Julie Lavender in the studio, and they write education.
Educational books for kids. Julie's been a school teacher and a journalist, and David served as an entomologist for 20 years in the U.S. Navy. Jim, that might be the first time we've ever introduced an entomologist on this show. The Lavenders have four grown children and three grandchildren, and they've collaborated on a devotional book that really serves as the basis, the springboard, if you will, for our conversation today: Children's Advent Stories for Bedtime: Celebrate the True Meaning of Christmas.
You can learn more about our guests and this great little book at our website, and the links are in the show notes. Julie, welcome back. And David, welcome for the first time to focus on the family. Thank you. We're so glad to be here.
Appreciate that. David, I think John just Leaned into it.
So, what does the Navy do with entomology? Did we create some weapon out of bugs? Or is that top secret? That's not a movie, dude. Don't even start that rumor.
A new Tom Clancy novel or something. Yeah, cocker roaches rule the world. They may one day.
Now I know why you're an entomologist. What do they do, actually? Just to give the non-top secret version of that. Lots of things.
So we work with stored products, pests that may occur on ships, beetles and stuff, and grains like grits and stuff that get stored for long periods of time. But mainly working with Insect-borne diseases, malaria, yellow fever, dengue, those kinds of things.
So going into countries. Possibly where we may wind up, the Navy or the Marine Corps, and looking at what kinds of things may pose a threat. And this is going to be the hardest turn ever. But now, Julie, I'm coming your direction. Tell me about your love story.
Yeah, it's kind of hard. How did you fall in love with an entomologist? It is kind of hard to follow that.
Well, we met in high school and dated some then. He likes to call us high school sweethearts. We were very good friends. Dated all through college. And.
Then married after our undergrad, and when he decided he wanted to join the Navy while we were working on our masters, you know, I was just didn't want to leave my hometown. And I said, A boat? What can an entomologist do on the boat?
So we're all there.
So the first thing he said was, Well, A, it's a ship, but B, there's lots of things. And we took off for the Navy 20 years, and I loved every minute of it.
So you got married after college. After college. But then we finished our masters before he joined the Navy.
So that first date or second date when things, you know, going, okay, maybe this is the guy the Lord has for me. Did you talk to him about his love for bugs?
Well, he's always had a love of animals, which I thoroughly enjoyed all of that. But when I realized he had a depth of love for insects and snakes, you know, those were two things I just really didn't enjoy much of.
So I've had to learn to appreciate their beauty. And I can enjoy them. I'm still terrified of most of them. Especially snakes. I still don't do snakes and spiders, but.
We enjoy them very much. He has trained our grandson to enjoy animals as much as he does. And so now I've had to adjust to catching snakes and spiders for my grandsons. It's amazing the things you'll do for them. Hey, Julie, you also, you do personalized calendars.
I was really, this is interesting. I started doing that years and years ago. I have not done them recently since all my children are adult and gone now. But I started doing that. I did a calendar for each child and for my husband.
And I would start right after Thanksgiving. And I didn't always buy them. I didn't always spend the money on them. You know, there are a lot of places that give away free calendars as advertising. And I would spend every night after the kids went to bed, and I just wrote a note starting in January, go all the way through the year.
You know, it might be Jesus Loves You. It might be, I love your smile. You're a good big sister. You're a good big brother. And I would put stickers on them.
And I'd do silly things. Like I'd put a B on there and I'd say, I'm so happy to be your mother. You know, silly things like that. That's great. I did it all through the year.
Did you ever put, you know, you might want to clean your room? No, I tried to stay positive for it. It was all encouraging. We were just talking about encouraging. All encouraging.
I'd like that calendar. Don't forget to take the trash out. But it was really fun, and then I'd give it to them either for a Christmas present or New Year's Day.
Sometimes that was a New Year's Day treat for them. And they would hang it in their room. And it was just a special way for them to check off the day and see a note of affirmation, remind them of the Lord. And, you know, on those days when, you know, maybe I didn't feel so good as a mom, I didn't feel like I had done a good job and didn't remind my children that I loved them that day, they at least had it on their calendar if I'd had a bad day. That's so good.
Now, you both come from large families, and they're all nearby, I think. And you have four children of your own. In that context, so how did you, what kind of activity did you do, in addition to you creating calendars for the kids and for your husband? But for both of you, what were some of the other activities that you do at Christmas? Jean, ours was the Advent calendar.
You know, I think at the height of this, she may have had three going at one time. Oh, wow. And she had different things. Things in each one, and the boys loved it, you know, and they would always try to peek behind the door. There's a theme to do that.
I was just going to say that. But what are some other things that you do to celebrate Christmas? One of our favorite things that I started was doing gingerbread houses with our kids. And I started that when they were really young. A couple of years I did we did a nativity scene instead of just a gingerbread house, but it was all out of edible Things for the nativity scene, but I started doing gingerbread houses with them.
And I didn't do them every year when they were little, but I did them most years. And then, as they got older and I would continue to do them, and you know, when they got to be teenagers, every now and then they'd kind of roll their eyes, but they knew how much I enjoyed that. And so, they'd get really involved, even as teenagers. And I could tell they enjoyed it because after we got them made, when their friends would come over, it was usually church friends, they knew our kids' personalities so well that each of our children made them guess who had made each of them. Oh, that's funny.
And so, they were usually accurate, and they really had fun doing that. And I could tell it was a special memory for them because. the very when our baby was a senior in college, I really thought that was going to be our last gingerbread house. And I Honestly, they were in the dining room getting ready to do their houses. I was crying into the frosting as I was making the frosting because this is our last gingerbread houses.
We'll never make them again.
So after we finished, I couldn't bear to throw them away. We usually tossed them or let the birds have them or whatever quickly. And It got to be um February and David said, You know, Julie, it's almost Valentine's. Can we please get rid of the houses now? I said, Oh my gosh, that's a great idea.
I'm going to decorate them for Valentine's.
So, I took the little village and I just decorated them, my gingerbread village, for Valentine's. I did it for the whole year, left them out all year long. We had no bugs, no. No, no, that's the question. David, you've got to be thinking bacteria and you know, all the master's degree stuff of entomology.
You got to wonder what's in that gingerbread for to last so long. Yeah, and then, of course, meatloaf's going to be made right near them on the kitchen counter.
So, and at the end of the year, My daughter, the same, the one that was a senior that I thought we would make no more, she came to me and she said, You know, Mom, Dawson, that was her boyfriend at the time and now her husband, he's never had the pleasure of doing gingerbread houses with us as a family. Can we do them one more year?
Well, you can imagine I was just totally excited about that. And by the time we did them then, then we had a grandson that, so now we've not stopped the tradition. We still do them. We have about 10 on the counter still spread out all the way down the counter.
Some of them are four and five years old. Oh, that's good.
So you're not going to eat those. I don't think so. I'm kind of tracking. I think I'm going to be like you here, David, that my wife is the really energetic one about some of these traditions.
So did you get kind of dragged along at first?
Okay. Absolutely. My job at Christmas was very easy. On Christmas Eve, I'd read the Christmas story while all the kids put the nativity scene together. And that's about my.
You did not make a gingerbread? I did not participate in that. Oh, you saved the resources for the kids. No, that's not the problem. They needed to do that.
That's right. He was the picture taker. I did not get out of it. I did it with Gene and the boys. We made our gingerbread houses.
So, you know, I wouldn't say I put a lot of effort into it, you know, kind of stacked them together, used the frosting for glue. Mine was more like an A-frame gingerbread house. He always joined in, but he was just the picture taker.
So were you the reluctant one when it came to the service projects that we know you all did? No, not at all. I'm not reluctant about that at all. Not always available to do them when she would do them with the kids because I was deployed or whatever, but certainly participate in those when I could. And what was the point of your service projects at Christmas time, Julie?
Well, I just felt like, you know, Christmas can become so commercial and it's all about let's look through the toy catalog or whatever. And so I just wanted them to think about other people and I wanted them to feel blessed for the things that they did have. And so we would. There was a year when we made Christmas cookies and we took those to a a women's shelter and that was a lot of fun. And we've um served at a homeless shelter.
I remember making sandwiches with the kids and that was quite eye-opening for them. My children watched one of the workers drop a piece of bread onto the ground. We were making them out in a park. And she picked it up, dusted it off, and made the sandwich. And my kids were shocked.
And I said, Well, sweetie, I just I think they have to use their resources. And so we did a lot of things like that. We loved participating with Samaritan's Purse. And we did those shoeboxes. Oh, yeah, we did them here, focused.
One of our favorite memories from that, I think my youngest was six, so that would have meant they were six, nine, twelve, and fifteen, I guess. And she, we, everybody packed a box, and we did that.
Well, but my daughter, and my children were great prayers. They loved their prayers in the evenings. She prayed every night, and God, please bless the person who's going to get my box.
Well, in March, when she was still praying that, the nine-year-old brother was just a little exasperated with her one night. I don't know if he'd had a bad day because he loved his prayers too, but he said, I think you can stop praying about that now, Jessica, because this was March. It was that long. And it was less than maybe two weeks after that that we got a letter in the mail. The only thing you could read was her name on the envelope.
Everything else, it said it came from India. And we had people in our Sunday school class that he grew up in India because he was the son of a missionary. And we took it to him. And I said, Would you be able to read this to us? And he looked at it, and it makes me cry.
And he smiled and he said, I can read this. He said, He explained they were all different dialects. He was afraid he might not be able to read it to us. And he said, I can read this. He read it word for word.
And the little boy had sent a picture too. And he thanked my daughter for the, you know, for the gift. But it was just a great. Way to tell our children, you never stop praying. Don't give up on your prayers.
That's a good lesson. And it was such a good lesson. Yeah. Let me ask both of you, you know, the hardship. Here at Focus, we get a lot of people who contact us because it's hard for some families, all different reasons.
You know, it's just it can be a wonderful experience in good, healthy, in-tech families. It can be a lonely experience, too, where people feel isolated. They don't have the strength of family around them. In fact, you guys experienced that when you were deployed, I think, David, Kuwait, perhaps. How did you manage Christmas from a distance in that circumstance?
It was tough. Of course, I was stationed out in the middle of the desert in Kuwait for a desert storm. And uh The contact, and a lot of people don't understand how it is now, but back then we didn't have cell phones, we didn't have internet, and so I only got to call. What, every couple of weeks? And to make a telephone call.
Man, I got on a bus, rode for two hours to an ATT little phone booth. Gee, think of that. And I get there, and there would be a line of 50 people, and I get in line, and you got 15 minutes. And at the end of your 15 minutes, the guy behind you tapped you on the shoulder, and you got off the phone and left.
So there was not much. contact at all. Yeah. So it was tough. Let me ask you, Julie, another example of that hard time was when your brother passed away.
Was that around Christmastime? It was in September, but just the missing person? Just the missing person at the table. How do you deal with that grief?
Well, it was very hard. My mom, especially, struggled. He's the baby of the family, so is the baby brother. And so we. We definitely tried to rally the troops and make sure everybody was there, but we do gather as family.
But um We changed a few things to make it be a little different because whereas before we had gathered at my mom's house, I think at that time, I think we moved it to my brother's barn. He had a farm. And so we tried to make some things different. We tried to keep some things the same. My older brother shared some, he gave each person a gift of popcorn seeds from the corn that my brother had grown or something the year before because somehow he had saved them because he had just planned on keeping them for popcorn for the next year.
So that was a special memory.
So we tried to honor him for sure and remember his goodness and his kindness. But at the same time, we tried to make enough things different so that it didn't seem like. Everything's the same, but one person is missing.
So that was a tough time. And it could be a really hard time Christmas time with missing loved ones, etc. In a lot of ways. There's just a lot of sadness that can take place at Christmas.
So sometimes that's when giving to someone else or just doing a service project. You know, if we're just feeling kind of low or bummed or maybe we can't be with our family or whatever, then if we can give to someone else or do something for someone else, sometimes that takes away that sadness. You know, we haven't really mentioned the book, and we want to because this is great: Children's Advent Stories for Bedtime. And what a great idea for parents to kind of zero in on the importance of the season. What's the main reason for the season, we often say?
But you've written this devotional book. How do you recommend families use it? And what's the ultimate goal of writing it?
Well, you know, in the title it says bedtime, but we obviously would just love people to read it anytime. But I thought was for this, you know, they've. There's so much going on with the Christmas lights and the commercials and the this and the that and things they see during the day that it would be wonderful. We thought it would be wonderful for them to end the day thinking about the main reason for Christmas. And there's a story from December 1st all the way to the 25th.
Every story, even though the first story talks about creation, we talk about in the very beginning the need for a Savior from the very beginning. And each day we try to point to the fact that Jesus is coming, Jesus is coming, how much we all need Jesus. And we would love it if parents would end the day with this and talk about. You know, talk about what Christmas is really about. You know, what you're saying there is intentionality.
And I think so often when we meet, you know, homes that are struggling, families that are struggling, sometimes you find that we, as parents, weren't as intentional as we needed to be. We just assume it's going to seep in. Of course, everybody knows about Christmas. But what children develop if they're not really guided is, yeah, it's about gifts and giving and receiving gifts. And I mean, they'll give you lots of descriptions, but sometimes they're not going to say, yeah, it's when Jesus was born.
That's right. And of course, the worldly commercialization, as you've described it. And you know, we're intentional about, okay, we've got to send out Christmas cards. Let me get my list ready. We're intentional about, oh, I got to make my list of who I've got to buy for.
We can be intentional about those things because we feel like those have to get done.
So if we can do that, then we can squeeze in five or ten minutes at bedtime. and be intentional to make Jesus the reason for the season, you know, to To quote a cochlear, yeah, but um, yes, you're you're exactly right. If we're not intentional, it's not going to happen. You know, one of the things, too, I remember we had kind of adopted grandparents in the Daly household because we didn't have grandparents, and so they were nearby neighbors who actually ended up leading my mom to the Lord the day before she died. But we would go over there for Christmas.
Speak to that idea of taking the time as grandparents and being able to, when the grandkids come over, hopefully it's your year. That's right, that's right. And you can spend a little time and really have them 10 years from now go, I remember grandma and grandpa used to read me those stories at Christmas time, right? That's right, and it sticks. Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
Let me ask this one: We're talking about connecting Christmas with the birth of Christ, salvation to Christ. The Christian message. How do we get that point across to our kids? Those are hard concepts for children to think of death, resurrection, salvation through Christ, atonement for our sins. I mean, that.
is something that evolves over time for a child. You're not going to talk to a five-year-old the way you would a 12-year-old.
So how did you, did you guys have a plan of unveiling Christmas at an age-appropriate way? It was easy for us to say Hey, you know. Sadly, there's some evil in the world, and God knew we needed God knew he had to provide that for us and There are times that there are things that we're not going to understand. There are things that we may never understand. And so, if my children, there were questions they had that were hard for them, we would try to touch on them the best we could.
But if it was something they didn't understand, we would say, Well, you know what? Those are things we can keep talking to God about. We can pray about those things. We can keep reading the Bible. And if there's things we don't understand, He's either going to reveal those things to us, or maybe we don't need to understand those things.
But There were some hard things for them, and there were things they don't understand. And we're, like you said, we're kind of addressing that with our grandson now because he's asking some of those hard questions.
Well, some of the themes can be so difficult. I remember thinking about how to get the point across to my boys how, you know, the Father allowed Jesus to be born in a manger, which to me is an. Indication of the humility of God. You know, I think the father could have actually, there's another room that nobody knew about at the inn, right? Because I'm not going to let my child be born.
in a manger with straw and you know, animal byproduct.
So you think of that, that the Father allowed Jesus to be born in a state of humility. Exactly. And that's where the scripture says, you know, be humble, for I am humble. Exactly. It's a characteristic of God.
But it's hard to teach, you know, a five-year-old isn't going to be able to really grab humility. And you've got to find ways to demonstrate it. Exactly. And I think when we didn't know if they were catching it all, then I guess we just kind of prayed and hoped for the best. Yeah, this is an example, though, of leaning into where kids are at because they're asking questions about the things that we can't answer, right?
I mean, they're asking those hard questions, and it's a season where we can slow down and we can say, well, actually, let's think about that. We don't know.
So what was behind that? I know keeping them in church is another thing because they got Sunday school teachers that are going to be telling them the same kind of things along with other kids at the same time.
Now, that's one thing that we did enjoy with our children because we loved doing Bible stories throughout the entire year, not just at Christmas. And we love to ponder the what if. And what's not in the Bible? And how do you think that really, and what else do you think might have happened? And I never had a problem with my children asking either the hard questions or even the silly questions like, why did this happen or why did this happen?
David said his favorite story that we wrote in here was about the what animals may have been present at the birth of Christ. We have no idea. We don't see that in the Bible. Right. But he was laid in a manger.
Exactly. It had to be something there. There's something around him. He has something around. That's exactly right.
So him being the biologist, you know, we've discussed with the kids before: what animals do you think were there? And how did they work around that? And how did they do that?
So the hard questions, if I can't answer them in a language I think they can understand, then sometimes I'll say, You know, I'm not sure about that answer. We're going to have to a little bit more research, or we need to talk to God about that, or we just do the best we can. Let's end with a favorite short one that you have in here. Can you read it for us? Yes, okay.
It's called Jesus Will Come Again. The good news of the cross is that Jesus did not stay dead in the tomb. Jesus rose from the grave, he conquered death. After his resurrection he told his disciples that he would come again. Jesus announced His second coming.
The first time Jesus came to earth, he came as a newborn baby. The next time Jesus comes, he will come as the king of kings and lord of lords. Jesus said in John 14:1, Let not your heart be troubled. You believe in God, believe also in me. Then he described how heaven is like a huge mansion with many rooms.
Jesus said he was going to heaven so he could get our rooms ready and that he'd come back one day and take us back with him where he we'd live together for ever. God promises no more tears or sadness or pain or illness. God's people will spend the rest of their lives worshiping Him in heaven. It might even be like a grand celebration and party that never ends. A party hosted by God where Jesus is the star of the show.
What a marvelous time of rejoicing and celebrating. When Jesus returns, God's plan of salvation will be complete. Those who believe in Jesus and have put their trust in Him will live forever in a new, perfect world. Jesus wants to spend eternity with you. The only way to live with Jesus forever is to accept His gift of salvation, to put your trust in Jesus, and to believe in Him as God's Son.
God is a holy and perfect God. Our sins separate us from God. He cannot have sin near Him. We needed a way to be reunited with God. Jesus is the way.
Wow. Christian message in a brief description for kids. What a great way to help. Kids understand what it means to be saved. And it is the promise of Christmas and the evidence of Easter that make the difference.
Thank you guys both for being with us. This has been terrific. Thank you. Thank you. It's been so much fun.
Yeah. And if you'd like a copy of this great book, Children's Advent Stories for Bedtime or anytime, I'll add that little. Nuance to it. Send a gift of any amount to the ministry, and we'll say thank you by putting this book into your hands. It's critical that we hear from you.
This is how we build the budget for the year, and we really need to hear from folks this holiday season. I'm reminded of a note we got from a woman named Teresa who began listening to this program more than 40 years ago. Isn't that amazing? And this is what she said: Listening to your advice and counsel helped me and sustained me through some very tough times. Fast forward 45 years later, we're still married.
My children are saved, and we are serving God. Focus has played a huge part in my life. What an amazing thing. Got to love that. And I think that's what we're all here for: to invite more people into the kingdom.
And that's why we want to do this program today.
So get involved, support the ministry. Certainly, as the first thing you need to do is accept Christ as your Savior, and we have a way to introduce you to Him. Yeah, find out how you can donate. And get a copy of this book. And check out a free little booklet we have online for you called Coming Home: an Invitation to Join God's Family.
It's an opportunity for you to learn more about the Christian message. It may be that you've never thought about your personal salvation. We're all about telling people about Jesus here at the ministry, and we want you to know more. And so, check that out. Again, it's called Coming Home, and the links to our website are in the show notes.
And by the way, we're also linking over to our Christmas Stories podcast, a brand new season of memories, fun stories, and some great conversations. Check that out. Again, it's called the Christmas Stories Podcast, and the link is on our website. And join us again on Monday as we hear from Lee Strobel, who offers the proof of Christ's birth. This is not just an intellectual endeavor.
This is not just adding up the evidence and coming to a rational conclusion. God is real, and if He is real, He's a relational God. And thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back next time as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ. God is at work and He's calling His people to rise in truth.
Truth Rising is a powerful new documentary from Focus on the Family and the Coulson Center. See how ordinary Christians choose courage in a culture that needs truth. Watch Truth Rising today and find out how you can become an agent of restoration and hope. Visit truthrising.com today. That's truthrising.com.
Uh
