God is at work and He's calling His people to rise in truth. Truth Rising is a powerful new documentary from Focus on the Family and the Coulson Center. See how ordinary Christians choose courage in a culture that needs. Truth. Watch Truth Rising today and find out how you can become an agent of restoration and hope.
Visit TruthRising.com today. That's TruthRising.com. And at the end of the week, she came up to me and she said, I want you to look me in the eye. She said, I think God has something for me to tell you. Your children know that you love them.
And I burst into tears because it was this heavy burden I had been carrying all my life. Mary Demuth is here to discuss a really big topic of concern for so many parents today, and that is wayward adult children. We're going to offer you help and hope today on Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, and thanks for joining us. John, many people may not know, but we have a counseling team here, about 20 counselors, and they manage about 2,000 calls a month. for people who need some help and they will engage you and that's available to you because donors have made it possible for that.
But one of the top reasons that people will call us is struggles with adult children.
So today we're going to talk about that and how to Pray that through and do the best you can do as a parent of an adult child that's maybe not walking with the Lord or maybe it's an antagonistic relationship for whatever reason. Our guest today is going to give you some insights and talk us through managing that relationship for a good outcome. And Mary Demuth is a podcaster on the Pray Every Day Show. She's an author of dozens and dozens of books, and she's a speaker. And one of the books she's written that we're going to cover today is called Love.
Pray, listen, parenting your wayward adult kids with joy. You can learn more about Mary in this book. Just follow the link in the show notes. Mary, it's nice to have you with us here at Focus on the Family. Thank you so much for having me.
It's a blessing. You're coming up from Texas, so tell us how big Texas is. Very big, very hot. All the things. Yeah, hot and cold, right?
You've heard us kind of set this up. It is interesting because we watch the topics of what the counseling team are dealing with because it gives us some insight on what to cover. And I think the main reason you're here is because we have seen an uptick in the number of parents that are struggling with adult children.
Now, all three of us at the table here have adult children. And so I'm not going to say we're struggling, but you know, there's always things that can be in a better place. And as we begin this conversation, are you seeing it the same way we're seeing it? I am, and it's pretty constant. And a lot of my conversations with people in my age bracket, this is a big topic.
What are some of those stresses? Yeah, so there's a lot. There's some parents out there whose kids have substance abuse and they're spiraling downward. There's some that are incarcerated. There are some that have deconstructed the faith to oblivion.
So they haven't reconstructed. They have deconstructed. There are kids that are exploring different lifestyles and different identities. And a lot of parents who walked through perhaps like the 90s and the early 2000s reading all the parenting books, I think a lot of us have been kind of disillusioned a little bit. Like we.
I don't know, I've written a parenting book, so I know what that's like, but I think we don't realize that that's not a formula. And but we internalize this idea that if I do all the right things, At the other end, I'm going to be guaranteed this Christ-following child who never questions and has an amazing life. And that doesn't always happen because we birthed people with free will. We really love free will for ourselves, but we really don't love free will for our adult children.
So that's what I've been seeing. You know, it's so true. You know, and I can't remember how long ago I heard this, but somebody said, Well, Adam and Eve turned on the Lord, right?
So even the Lord suffered with his teenagers, you might say. Mary, this is very tender, but it is part of your book. And I want to bring up your childhood. It sounded very chaotic. I'm so sorry for you.
Both of us lived in chaotic childhoods. The Lord can redeem that. I mean, that's our story, right? But you were abused sexually as a little girl. Describe a bit, just a bit, of what those circumstances were, what it made you feel like, and how did you.
How did you crawl back to somewhere near healthy? Yeah, I mean, they have this scale called the ACE, the adult, or the adverse childhood experiences. And I think I have all of them except for one. And so that's, I feel like it's great in terms of I can relate to almost anyone that's gone any through anything. But yes, sexually abused at age five for a year.
By babysitter's friends. Yes, by teenage boys in the neighborhood that were living next door to the babysitter. And then multiple divorces throughout my childhood, a predatory, sexually predatory father, and then his death when I was 10 years old. And an only child and super lonely and left alone all the time, food insecure, drugs in the home, growing drugs in the closet.
So everything that you can think of that was. Terrible for a little child, I went through. And yet, during all that time, in a godless home where Jesus is only a swear word, I had this longing to know the Lord. And anytime, like a secular song would come on that had like hints of God or like an ascendant way, anything like that, I would just cling to those songs. And eventually, I met Jesus when I was 15 through the ministry of young life, right after being very suicidal and wanting to take my life.
But you know what's amazing? That sense that the Lord cared about you, somehow you knew that. And I had that same experience, and it's the hardest thing to express to people, isn't it? But people who are desperate saying, how did you know? that you should love God.
It felt like in my case, it was just there and present. Like God's grace was already there. Do you feel that same way? I do. And I think for parents of wayward kids, too, that's a very.
Calming feeling to know that the Lord is pursuing their kids. And He was pursuing me in so many beautiful, powerful ways that I can't even really explain, except just that it was the Lord. Also, another thing, a little gift that He gave me was while those, when that sexual abuse was happening for a year. I knew that what those boys were doing to me was wrong. And that is a gift because most sexual abuse victims think it's their fault.
And they so you put that on them. I did. And I knew who the evil, what the evil was. And I actually also had a lot of gumption. And I told my babysitter that this was going on at five.
And of course, she didn't do anything about it. And she said that she would tell my mom. And she didn't.
So I thought my mom knew, and this was still going on.
So all these like little things that the Lord did were just part of those breadcrumbs of the Lord bringing me to himself.
So that by the time I was 15 and I heard the gospel, I was just so. This is what I've been looking for my whole life. And I like to tell audiences, and then I was completely healed and everything was great. But that was actually the beginning of a very long healing journey. And I just want to let listeners know that if you still feel like you're in the muck and mire, that is very normal and it's a very long process.
I call it the wobbling years after you make that commitment. I was 15 as well. And then it was the wobble up until about 22 when I actually got it together and understood what it meant to be committed to Christ.
So I had that seven-year span of. You know, the parties on Friday night after the football game, and then going to church on Sunday, going, Lord, forgive me for all that I did on Friday. But that's part of it, right? You are uniquely equipped, I think, to understand Adult children because of everything you went through, right? And I think, in part, what you just said, I want to capture because you were talking about.
Understanding, you didn't say that, but understanding what they're facing, kind of the battle that they're under right now, whether you have a daughter or a son who's 20, 21, what forces are coming at them, highly sexualized culture, drugs you mentioned earlier, that can be part of it. How do you feel you connected with your own adult children? And I don't know all of that story, but you can share. where they have been at, did you feel like you understood? You know, that's a really good question.
In many ways, yes. In some ways, no. And the no is that. Because I was on my own for so much and I had to just buck up and deal. Yeah.
I kind of felt like you should just figure this out. You know, you should just buck up and deal. But I, so because I was actually a, you know, I was a good mom and I nurtured my kids and I was with them throughout their lives. And they now come back to me. They, some of them call me every day, and we have this amazing, surprising relationship.
Not all of them are walking with Jesus, but we're still connected. And I think part of that is this holy curiosity for the marvel that they are. And that to me is such a beautiful thing that we, as parents of adult kids, can do is just be like, I'm so curious, what makes you think this thing that you're thinking? Or I'm so curious about, you know, what are you going to do about this problem? And that has really carried me through that is just to have this holy curiosity of my kids.
Did you ever feel? with your own children, adult children particularly. that nothing's gonna surprise me. I mean, whatever they do, I've already been there. I know it.
Nothing's going to surprise me. Did they ever surprise you? Oh, yes, of course they surprised me. I'm a normal mom with normal adult kids that do abnormally weird things. And so, yes, definitely.
And it did kind of unsettle me for sure. Like, just this feeling of. Oh goodness, that modicum of control that I thought I had when they were under my roof, which was sort of an illusion, but we like it so much. Really, this just cements that modicum of control. I just realized it wasn't real.
And that's the hence the title of the book: What Can I Do? That's what I came to the title with. What are the three things I can do? I can love them. No one's going to prevent me from loving them.
I can pray for them. They cannot prevent me from praying for them. And I absolutely, if I'm still, if I haven't been ghosted by them, I can listen to them. I can listen to their heart. And no one can take that away from me as well.
Yeah, we're going to pick up on those. But you had a friend, Heidi.
So I'm just framing this for you. Thank you. Because. I think what I experienced as a dad, and I'm not sure that you experienced as a mom coming out of broken homes. You can tend to overdo it a little bit.
So, I don't want to tell everybody how often I took the boys to Disneyland because when I was a kid, I was not able to go, we couldn't afford it.
So, we've been. far too many times to Disneyland. You can do that in so many ways and I think you were in the kind of the I Love You. I love you.
Well, I love you too. Kind of modality. And Heidi said something to you. Yes.
So when I became a mom, I was absolutely, completely terrified. And I, because I literally, I understood enough to know that you do what is modeled for you. And almost 100% of what was modeled for me was something I did not want to duplicate.
So my parenting strategy was cry all the time and get on my knees before Jesus because I just didn't have anything. And I also worried that my children, as you alluded to, didn't know that I love them. And so, because I never knew.
So I was, I love you, I love you, I love you. And so my friend visited me for a week and she didn't know. And I didn't even know I had this issue in my heart. The Lord knew, but I never voiced it even in prayer. And at the end of the week, she came up to me and she said, I want you to look me in the eye.
She said, I think God has something for me to tell you. Your children know that you love them. And I burst into tears because it was this heavy burden I had been carrying all my life. And she was able, as an outsider, to say what I desperately needed to hear. And the Lord knew and gave her those words to give to me.
This is Focus on the Family with Jim Daly, and today Mary Demuth is our guest. And we're talking about some of the content in her terrific book, Love, Pray, Listen: Parenting Your Wayward Adult Kids with Joy. And we want to encourage you to get a copy of this book and other resources to help you in your parenting journey. Stop by the website, and we've got the link in the show notes. You know, Mary, often we take on, let me just say, I can tend to take on too much responsibility and stress.
Gene's certainly there too in parenting our two adult kids. They're now 25 and 23. How is our identity in Christ directly linked to a posture of surrender? This is the question. How do we surrender and say, Lord, okay, they're yours.
We did the best we could. And here they are. And now we have to kind of lay the parenting and control stuff down.
so that they can now be the adults God is calling them to be. I think part of that comes back to remembering when you were in your 20s and if your parents had overreach, how that made you feel. And so, if you can kind of crawl into your skin at that time and remember how. Joyful it is when your parents just loved you and believed in you and were for you, but they weren't, you know, pulling at the puppet strings.
So that's one thing. And then I would say, I think a lot of us have combined and enmeshed our identity with our parenthood. It's a very common thing, especially for evangelical parents. And we feel like how our kids turn out, that's tied to our identity. And I am certainly not immune to that as well.
And so untethering that, and I think this is part of the growth process as a parent of an adult kid, is untethering that, finding your identity in Jesus alone, not in my parenting prowess, not in how my kids turn out, but just in the fact that I am loved by Jesus. And when you untether that, then it is easier to lay down and surrender. What they are going to become, and that it's never easy because we have we start with high control when they're toddlers, don't run in the street, we grab them, and we're constantly working ourselves out of a job, less and less and less control, and then we lose it all. And that's really hard to let go of. Yeah, but I think you've really expressed that well because it's our ability as the parent to begin to release that control that's so important.
And some of us, as parents, we hang on to the control stick, and then we have highly dysfunctional adult children. And that's what we're addressing. You know, Mary, I've been able to travel the world, and so often cultural overlays make a difference, right? And in some cultures, it's normal for adult children to remain home until they're married or in the men's spot, the young men's spot, that they are finished with education and have their job, et cetera. There seems to be a little bit of a morphing of that in the U.S.
It used to be 18, bye-bye, dropped off at college like you were. See you later. Call me if you need me, but don't call too much. But that has really morphed to where we continue to take care of our young adult children. They may return home, and that is understandable in a financial downturn.
They lose their job or something happens. It's nice to have a mom and dad safety net to be able to come home to. How should we manage some of that, though, with our adult children that need a little extra net? Nest time. Yeah, great question, and a little extra nest time.
And us in Texas, we don't have basements, so they don't live in the basement, but they live in your living area. I would say that there is a precedent biblically to let someone go, and you see the, especially in the marital thing of leaving and cleaving, and when there's enmeshment there with a family of origin, it can get very. Difficult.
So I definitely see that. But one of the reasons I wrote this book is that we, as parents, were never given an example or trained about how do you love your kids in their 20s and 30s? Like, how do you, when is it okay to extend some money their way? And when is it enabling? And that's where I have to go back to the Holy Spirit because the Holy Spirit is so wise and knows all of our kids and they're all different.
And sometimes to give money to one would be the right thing to do, but to give money to another would be the wrong thing to do. And it's not just, you know, back and forth. We just have to be super careful and really. Trust that the Lord has this. And that's where I want to just encourage parents of adult kids.
This is a season of your life where you are going to grow so much. There's so much potential. You thought it was over. I had. No.
We just begun. No, it's so true. And that's a great point. Speak maybe to that application of that. You touched on it, but with younger children, with teens, and then where should we be?
In that parent-adult-child relationship at 23, 24, 25, when it comes to those control issues, financial or whatever they might be. The deepest part of this is we want what's best for our kids, and I'll never say that that's wrong. That is a beautiful part of parenthood: longing for our kids to thrive and just have this amazing life that you've longed for them to have. But as I mentioned earlier, we're working our way out of a job and there's high control to low control, and we're moving away from it so that when we release them, we've trained them to live without us, and our control is almost waning. And by the time they're 25, of course, it should be gone.
We should be more cheerleaders and coaches than we are directors. And I try to make a rule that I will not give advice unless I am asked. The other thing I think that's in play here in terms of giving to our children is. Yeah. What I walked through in my own grief was when I had the grief in front of me of they're not making the same decisions I would have wanted them to, that grief.
Blinded me and did cause me to want to control and pull the puppet strings. And it wasn't until I walked through that and named the grief, walked through the grief, wrote some lament psalms about it, all of that, that once I grieved it, I was now able to see God working in their lives where I was blind to it before. I could see, just like God had breadcrumbs for me, I could see that He was laying breadcrumbs for them. And it was the most beautiful treasure hunt that I had ever seen. But this grief over my face that I could not see, I had to work through that.
So maybe someone listening today needs to remember: it's important to grieve. If the expectations weren't met, your kids are making decisions that are breaking your heart. Grieve it. Talk about it. Name it.
But the parents were terrified to do that because it's an admission that we didn't do a good job. At least that's what we're thinking. There's a super connection there. I mean, it starts when your kids throw in the tantrum at the grocery store, which you, when you were single, said would never happen when I'm a parent. And then it happens, right?
And I mean, I think that embarrassment begins then and it rolls and gets more mature, like they're making the wrong decisions. And that is so embarrassing to us as a family. People at church, what are they going to say? I mean, whatever it might be. Let me ask you this.
What's the big question that adult kids are asking of their parents? Yeah, so the question that kids are always asking with their behavior, whether they're four or twenty-four, is: will my parents love me if? And that is why the whole book is structured around 1 Corinthians 13, which was not written to people getting married. It was written to a broken church with broken relationships.
So, we're talking about what is actual love. And love is this supernatural thing that the Lord gives us, this agape, is I'm going to love you even if you disappoint me.
Now, that doesn't mean that we don't speak the truth in love, it doesn't mean that, but it does mean that that's the fundamental question that all of us are asking everyone: Will you love me if I fail you? Will you love me if I walk away? Will you love me if I have same-sex attraction? Will you love me if I yell at the church? Will you love me?
All of these things. They're asking you that. And so, parents. We have the mandate of loving them. And that can look different with each child.
And again, that's where I go back to the Holy Spirit. It's so important to hear the Spirit and how He directs you. You know, in a deeper way, each of our relationships with the Lord is like that. And people too, if you really knew me. Would you love me?
You recommend a two-fold approach to mending a broken relationship with an adult child. When the Lord says we are made for relationship, first with Him and then with others.
Okay. We go by that so fast. And it's probably the most powerful. Part of understanding being made in God's image, that we're made for relationship. And that includes with our adult children.
It does. But it starts in childhood. Can they trust you? Can they come to you with concerns and questions? Do you lecture them?
Speak to all of that. First, I'll just raise my hand and say hi lecture. You know, the part of restoration of a relationship is it always involves going first. And it involves humility. And so, one of the things that I've done constantly with my kids, almost to the point that they're like, mom, stop it, which is, I'm so sorry I did that when you were 10 years old.
Could you please forgive me? I'm sorry when I did that when you were 11, please forgive me. I yelled and raised my voice when you were 15, please forgive me. And they're like, Mom, just stop, stop. We forgive you.
But it's very important to me to name what I feel like were my failures and ask for forgiveness and also ask them into that space in a conversation and say, is there something that really harmed you? I want to hear you. And I may not have seen it the same way, but I want to enter into that pain. And that's the start. That humility is the start of restoration, is that admission.
Because if you've grown up in a home where a parent has never once apologized, you know how crazy making it is. Yeah, Mary, right at the end, I think for the listeners that heard the beginning of the program and heard your story about abuse. And your mom dropping you off and saying, okay, have a good life. I mean, I'm abbreviating, but you felt distance. She wasn't in a healthy place.
How did you reconcile with your mom? How do you swallow all of the hurt and all the pain? and say okay, mom, I love you. The Lord said to me, What if she comes back to you? Will you be in a place to receive her?
And so I worked very hard, but I also wrote a book, a couple of books that were very honest, which did fracture our relationship. And in my mind, I thought telling the truth ruined everything. Even though I know that we're to speak the truth in love, and I did it as tenderly as possible, it had ruined everything. And a few years ago, I got a phone call from my mom. She was my biggest antagonist in my spiritual life.
She was my persecutor. I got a call from my mom two years ago, and she's like, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk. And at the very end, she said, by the way, I'm going to church. And I about fell off my chair. And in that moment, we started this.
I never thought it would happen. It was a 45-year prayer that she is having a journey now and we are reconciling. And I just want to tell people: speaking the truth in deep humility and kindness and love doesn't ruin everything. It gives you a platform from which to start. And that's what.
What happened with us? Mary, that is beautiful. And I want to continue tomorrow. Let's continue the discussion and thank you for that vulnerability. I think this is really helpful for the viewers, the listeners, to be able to say, yeah, this is right where I'm at, because so many of us are in that spot.
And I want to come back and talk about other complications for those. Empty nesters that are still living with some anchors around them, and how we can wisely and in a God-honoring way continue to move our relationships with our adult children in the right direction. Can we do that? Yes, let's do it. All right, let's do it.
And listen, this great book by Mary, Love, Pray, Listen: Parenting Your Wayward Adult Kids with Joy. The with joy just jumps out to me because it's so critical. Not with instructions, not with lectures, not, you know, parenting your wayward adult kids with joy because that's honey. That's something attractive to those kids that are struggling, and they want to be loved by you. I so desperately believe that.
So, get in touch with us and make a gift of any amount, and we'll send you a copy of this book as our way of saying thank you for being part of the ministry and getting a great resource to help you. Donate and request Mary's book. We're also going to link to a couple of other things. One is our seven traits of effective parenting assessment, which is going to help you learn how to kind of preemptively get ready for the release years so you can do it well. And take the assessment.
Get the book, make a donation, and we'll also link over to Mary's website where you can learn more about her prayer cards. All of that is available in the show notes. And when you donate to this ministry, please know you'll have twice as much impact on families because of a special matching opportunity going on right now. Every dollar you donate is going to be doubled to deliver hope and joy in Christ.
So give today and reach twice as many families. Just call 800 the letter A and the word family. 800-232-6459. Or again, you can donate and get resources by clicking the links in the show notes. Thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly.
I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ. God is at work and he's calling his people to rise in truth. Truth Rising is a powerful new documentary from Focus on the Family and the Coulson Center. See how ordinary Christians choose courage in a culture that needs truth. Watch Truth Rising today and find out how you can become an agent of restoration and hope.
Visit TruthRising.com today. That's TruthRising.com. Uh
