It's impossible to have a healthy prayer life and also have a prideful orientation toward God and a prideful orientation toward one another. Prayer is very, very humbling when you do it honestly. The problem is that oftentimes we just crank up the volume in our prayers and we just pray we get through whatever we need to recite. We forget to let the Lord actually bear his weight on us.
I'm John Fuller. John, prayer is an underappreciated activity in the Christian life. It's not always at the top of our to-do list, but it should be. I saw a study a while back that showed that less than 1% of couples who pray together every day end in divorce. I mean, that's amazing, but it shows the power of prayer in your marriage.
And I'm reminded of the German pastor Dietrich Bonn. He said praying for one another is the heartbeat of the Christian community. And if you're married, this applies to your relationship with your spouse as well, maybe especially. Jean and I try to pray together every morning. We read the Word together and, you know, some days we miss it because of schedules and things like that.
But more often we are getting together and doing that and I'm really happy for us. We don't want to induce guilt today. We get the schedules and the kids and stage of life.
We do want to encourage you in this area and give you the tools you need to enjoy the gift that prayer is. And as I mentioned, our guests are Ryan and Selena Frederick. They're authors, speakers and podcast hosts. Their website is called Fierce Marriage and they've written a number of books. And one we're going to be highlighting today is called 40 Prayers for My Wife. And there's an accompanying book, 40 Prayers for My Husband.
Look for your copies of those books online. The link is in the episode notes. Ryan and Selena, welcome back to Focus. It's good to have you. Thank you for having us. Enjoy coming all the way from the big state of Washington. Yes.
Rainy state of Washington. Yeah. Well, we'd like some of that rain, but it's OK. Hey, let me say, you know, again, I mentioned that guilt complex and all that, but most Christians know that prayer is important. But many of us, we just don't build it into our regular program. I guess the obvious question is, why do you think that is when the power of prayer, the testimony of what prayer does out of scripture?
And then we just kind of bump along in this life. Yeah. I, you know, Tim Keller had a thought on this and I'm going to butcher the quote, but he said something to the effect of we don't pray because we don't think we need God.
Right. And I think no Christian in the right mind would come out of the gate and say, yeah, I don't need God. Therefore, I don't pray. No, we functionally don't think we need God. So we go about our day. I mean, I find myself, it's like I'm laying down in bed at night and I'm realizing this is the first time I've actually thought about God. I thought about meeting him. I thought about praying to him, let alone praying for my wife and contending on behalf of my wife. So I think it's a matter of need and on some level, deep pride.
Yeah. And I think, you know, ironically, modernity does provide a lot of ease for us. If we were hunting and gathering for our food, I think we'd be praying a lot more.
I know I would because I'm pathetic at it, but you know, only prayer would be required there. But you know, that's part of it, right? Our needs are generally met just through modernity. You know, the fact that we go to the grocery store. Just stop and think about that. What those that have gone before us had to do. You know, I'm sure they're praying often just to find something to eat, right?
Yeah. Let me ask you this. I believe there was a particular season, Ryan, when you struggled to pray because you were consumed with work. I think all of us, men and women that are working outside the home are going, yeah, I mean, you're thinking about it. You're not sure if you've done the, you know, all the things that go into that, the 14 things I have to do tomorrow.
I think praying all that it does sound like an excuse. Yeah, I think as a husband and as a man, I think the tendency is to, I want to provide, I want to be the problem solver. I want to be the one out, you know, in the community solving problems in our lives, solving problems. And I just get so self sustaining, self focused, right? And there was a season in our lives and in our work. So we do that. We write full time. We do the podcast full time. It's a business. And it was not going well recently.
And so I was just wanting to buckle down and work harder, you know, grind harder, put in longer hours, get up earlier. And I just realized I was doing it completely on my own strength and the Lord graciously convicted me. Can I ask you, did that conviction come through Selena? Your marriage is like my marriage. The Lord speaks through Jean often. And that's a grace of God and yet to an extent, and I think I just resolved with that conviction to open every morning with this line in my journal.
And you can see it just a few months ago. Lord, I need you more than I need revenue. I need you more than I need to get this done.
I need you more than I need, whatever that thing is that I'm putting, that I'm trying to solve myself. And it completely calibrates my heart now to work out of a place of God is my provider, not me. And that's so freeing. The same goes for a wife and a mother. We wake up and kids are, they come in hot in the morning. They're just ready to go. We're starting the day. And so as a mom, I can very easily just jump into making breakfast, jump into whatever the next thing is, instead of humbly calibrating myself, coming to the Lord first, sitting at the feet of Jesus, reminding myself that these little blessings God's given to me for a short time to steward.
Okay, stop and breathe. My Savior, he sustains me, right? When he was tempted in the desert, he told the enemy, he told the devil, it's not by bread alone that I'm sustained, right? But by every word of God.
And so how, if Jesus says those things, how dare I step out of that lane? I so appreciate that. Yeah. And it's, I mean, I can think of those days.
I mean, especially with younger kids. It's chaos pretty much right from the beginning. You know, you're in bed. They're coming, mommy, mommy, mommy.
You know, whoa, okay, what do I have here? I used to get up at five in the morning when I was a little kid. My poor mom. Why does this not surprise me? You know, now that I think about it, I still get up at five in the morning.
I go to bed early, let me tell you. But I mean, that point of the energy. And I think the question, Selina, I'd ask from the mom side of this, that sounds angelic. In fact, when you were saying that, I heard angelic music playing. Stop and say, Lord. But how do you, how do you practice that to where it can become a habit for you? A good habit?
I don't totally right now. I don't get to pre-kids, you know, I'll get my journal, my Bible, three hours in the morning. God's good, right?
But when kids come around, like you said, kids come, there's energy. Usually the prayers happen as I'm making breakfast, as we're doing dishes. God, thank you that I get to feed these little beans. I pray that I wouldn't just feed their tummies, but I'd feed their souls. Help me, Lord. As we wash dishes, that I wouldn't grumble about the mess, but I would remind myself that you've given us this life and that I get to enjoy this mess and this life. Sustain me because I already feel tired and it's 5.05 in the morning. No kidding.
No, I so appreciate that. And it's, it is an attitude and getting that attitude of prayer. Right.
And you know, you're right. It doesn't have to be on your knees in front of your couch or something like that. That's great if you can do that, but it's in your activities. Praying without ceasing definitely is a, it's a heart orientation and it's a humility and a recognition that I am not my savior. I think a lot of us are going, Oh yeah, I pray for my kids often. Let's zoom in on praying for our spouses.
Not so often. Right. Right. It's easy to pray for your kids.
I think easier. Sometimes the spouse prayer can be a little more difficult because you don't know my husband. You know, that's one of the things that women are going to say or vice versa. Absolutely.
And so I guess that right question is how does prayer, the benefit of prayer for one another as a spouse, how does that benefit your relationship? I mean, just to be completely candid, that's okay. Right on the show. Absolutely. We were at, we had a fight just recently.
I mean, within days. A discussion. Yeah.
Heated discussion, elevated discussion. There we go. And I was, you know, had a moment alone and I'm thinking, I'm praying, I'm like, you know, having those prayer thoughts, Lord, fix my wife, fix the situation, anything, anything. You're the only husband that's ever said this. And as I'm praying, it's like, I'm cringing because I'm like, I'm being humbled.
Right. And I think that's one of the big keys of prayer, especially as it, as prayer relates to husband and a wife is that it's impossible to have a healthy prayer life and also have a prideful orientation toward God and a prideful orientation toward one another. So prayer is very, very humbling when you do it. Honestly, the problem is, is that oftentimes we just crank up the volume in our prayers and we just pray. We get through whatever we need to recite. We forget to let the Lord actually bear his weight on us.
Not the Holy spirit prompt us and the ways that he wants us to change and be sanctified. And I can attest to that. I think in Jean and I praying together, it's almost like the Lord, if you're imagine that finger pointing at your wife or your husband, and if you're now beginning a healthy prayer time for your spouse, it's like the Lord takes that hand and just begins to turn it back at you.
So gently and so patiently. But it is true. I think I have more awareness of my shortcomings after a consistent season of prayer for Jean. I'm starting to realize, Oh, okay, Lord. Yeah. Okay.
Maybe it's not Jean. It's me. So that's good. There was a story's help here, obviously.
So I want to lean into that a bit with the books. And I think Selena, you prayed a way you described as a desperate prayer for Ryan after you moved recently. What happened in that? Yeah.
Real life story. Moving's a big transition on everyone. And again, I think it was around the same season that, you know, you move, we moved to kind of a bigger house and there's more financial responsibility. And then all of a sudden it feels like business is going like this. Everything's kind of just falling into this rut.
So naturally, the people that you snap at more are the people you feel safe with. And so he just, I could tell that there was this distancing happening. There was this, I'm going to put my head down. I got to work. And I try to respect that because there are seasons for that. But it kind of felt like we were disconnected for a lot longer than we usually are.
And so, you know, that manifests itself in just fighting, bickering, shortness, lack of grace, any sort of affection. And so I just prayed. I said, God, help my husband's heart.
I don't know. Maybe I am wrong in this. Like, again, please, God, open my own eyes, open my own heart to my own sin. But I feel like he's spinning his wheels. I feel like he's kind of depending on himself. Holy Spirit, just manifest your clarity, I guess, in him. Because we can just see things so wrong when we're trying to take hold and control the situation. Now, is this you praying for Ryan on your own?
On my own. And we did pray together, though. I feel like that was kind of one of the turning points of praying together. I think you were able to kind of hear my heart and also see what was happening. It's hard to always see in those situations, too, when tensions are high. Can find themselves in the situation that you were in, is that you feel helpless. You feel like, I just want something to change, and it's not changing. And what happens is, when we go to God, we're recognizing our need. God, this is your domain. You are the one who changes hearts.
I can't do that. No matter how many times I nag, I'm speaking as a wife or as a husband, or I try to fix it myself, the heart is God's domain. And so there's the humbling of myself going to God, saying, only you can do this. You be God.
I cannot be God. Then, I think, as we pray for a spouse who we want God to move, we start to empathize. We start to actually have more compassion toward one another. That, to me, has been one of the most radical things in our relationship. Yeah, that's a great outcome of that. And perhaps we didn't say this disclaimer, John, at the top, but we're talking about normally regularly healthy relationships here, not where there's severe trauma in the marriage, and in those cases, you need help, pastoral help or counseling.
And we would encourage you to call focus, and John will give those details for those. So we don't want to diminish, and I just picture a wife who's really struggling because her husband's addicted to pornography, or an alcoholic, or something severe. You do need to pray, don't get me wrong, but in this context, we're talking about the generally healthy Christian couple who just needs to remember the importance of prayer in this case. And you're correcting those little things that make life better and marriage better if you pray together.
So let me make that disclaimer. In that regard, the nuts and bolts of how to pray, we're kind of touching on that, so let's move a little more in that direction. I would imagine, in itself, evident you don't use that time for grievance prayer.
Lord, if only Ryan were better at this, and dot, dot, dot. I mean, that's not what you're saying at all. That's not the spirit of a healthy prayer to the Lord. No, it's, again, the orientation of a prayer is one of God, you are God, and I am not, and I need you to act as God in my heart, in my spouse's heart. I'm stricken by, in Matthew 6, Jesus is instructing us on how to pray, and he starts with, don't pray like these two groups of people. We have the Pharisees, and we have the Gentiles, right? The Pharisees would try to be loud, and they would try to show off their skills in praying, and the Gentiles would just heap up words to try and, you know, basically say, by my many words, God will now answer my prayer.
Jesus says no. Instead, pray like this. Simply pray in secret.
Pray with few words. That's really good. Ryan Frederick and his wife, Celina Frederick, are here today as our guests on Focus on the Family. Your host is Jim Daly, and we're talking about a great combination of two little books here, Forty Prayers for My Wife and then Forty Prayers for My Husband. These are prayer journals, they're prayer prompts, they're really great guides for you to put into practice what we're talking about today on the show. Call us to get a copy of the books or stop online at the website.
The link is in the show notes, and our number is 800, the letter A in the word family. Let me ask how couples can use the Lord's Prayer. You mentioned that in the books. How does the Lord's Prayer enter into your marriage in prayer?
Well, it's a loose outline, right? I mean, of course, just pray the Lord's Prayer verbatim, top to bottom. I think that's obviously that's how Jesus said to pray. That's great.
But I find it helpful as a prompt and an outline. So it starts out, our Father in heaven. Well, there's two really grounding things in that statement alone that he is not just a cult. He's not just a king. He's not just God. He is our Father.
He relates to us in a familial way, in a very affectionate, loving way. He's our Father, and he's in heaven. He's above. He reigns above.
That is very calibrating. So start with our Father in heaven. God, you are my loving Father. You know what I'm going through. You know the situation better than I do. Your kingdom come in this situation.
Your will be done. You kind of see how that going through that with your spouse in mind is very clarifying. And of course, there are more kind of rigid outlines that do correlate with the Lord's Prayer like Acts.
It's adoration, confession, thanksgiving, supplication. That's helpful as well. But that's just one idea.
Yeah, and that's the good application. You also recommend praying for your spouse from head to toe, which is great. I mean, that covers all of it, right? He knows every hair on her head.
So how about that? Praying for your spouse head to toe? Yeah, that's a great place to start if you don't know where to start. For Ryan, you know, for a husband, I might pray for his mind. God, just be in his thoughts. Lead him as he thinks and works and does all the things he does. God, be with his eyes, mind to eyes. Like, whatever he sees, may temptationfully, may he not be distracted. May there be, you know, purity in what he sees. And then, you know, his heart. God, do what you're going to do in his heart because, again, that is your domain. His hands, as he puts his hands to work, I pray that he would find purpose in it that is deeper than maybe just what he's doing. So, yeah, and you talk about for the wife or... Praying for the wife. Praying for the wife. You know, you had mentioned this in our conversations that, you know, you can get in your own head a lot. So I do pray for you, again, head to toe, starting in the mind. It's that integrated brain.
It is. That her thoughts would be centered on you and that you would be, you know, that her mind would be gracious toward herself even, that she wouldn't be overly critical of herself. Even the words that my wife says as she's mothering our children, that you would give her words that are life-giving. That she would have words that are from you that would bring life into the hearts of our children.
It begins to just prompt you. Yeah, I hear women right now going, oh, that sounds so good. Yeah. I wish my husband would pray that way. Well, he can.
He can, right? Nothing holding you back. I love what I'm hearing because you're really reciting a lot of scripture. You're not, you know, verbatim, but you're taking scriptural principles and then you're speaking God's word over your spouse. Which if you do ever get stuck, praying through scripture is a very helpful tool as well. And that is, I think, maybe at the core of these books that we're talking about and at the core of prayer is it's a response. God has initiated.
He's the one who's initiated communication with us through his word, through the word incarnate Christ. And so when we read scripture and we say, God, you said these things, now I'm going to pray these, not holding God hostage. And you said this, but more of a, this is your promise. This is who you are. I'm going to stand on this. Trust I'm standing on this. That is us responding to what God has initiated.
That's really good. Let me ask you for advice where couples, they're just not comfortable with it. They may be, you know, again, temperament can play into this too. And I don't want to pick on introverts because an introvert could be a great prayer warrior, but if you're just not used to praying together, how can they break that pattern and be more comfortable with each other? I mean, there's times Jean and I, when we're praying, we'll start giggling about something, you know, the pace at which we're praying.
Jean has an awesome reverence for the Lord. So she's in the morning and when we're praying together, she'll say, okay, I'll pray first and I'll say, okay. And then there's like this long pause and I'm going, and I'll open my eyes. You're going to pray? Yeah, I'm just getting my heart in the right place.
You know, so then we'll laugh about that, you know, but speak to that. I guess what I'm asking is that awkwardness for some couples just to be comfortable enough to pray to God in front of each other. Don't let it hold you back. I mean, anything great is never easy and it can always take some time to get more comfortable in that discipline.
But as believers, we are called to pray and so it does come down to obedience. So don't let the awkwardness hold you back. Lean into the awkwardness. That's good. I like that.
Lean into the awkwardness. I think some of it's humorous too. I remember a couple of times with the boys when we were praying and something was just funny and boom, we get going. And of course, Mom, you guys knock it off. We're talking to God. That would make us giggle more.
And sometimes you just got to roll with it. Okay, the Lord, he created a sense of humor and, you know, just be relaxed as well. Even a tangible, let's hold hands together. Why do we close our eyes so we're not distracted? We can face one another and begin praying for one another. And again, if you don't know where to start, start with the Lord's Prayer. It's okay.
You move through various circles. You've known a lot of people. Is it pretty common?
Jim's onto something here. I think there are oftentimes different prayer approaches that we bring to a marriage. How often do you see that as the barrier?
Yeah, no, it's true. I think that gives rise to a lot of that awkwardness that people feel. Like they've witnessed it in a way.
Because it's funny how you can have a conversation like this. And we have a certain cadence to the conversation. We have a certain way of speaking. And all of a sudden when you turn on the prayer switch, something changes. Dear God. Yeah.
It depends on where you come from, right? Yeah, that's interesting. You say God 20 times for every 10 words. You repeat God's name. And you would never do that talking to somebody in person.
But yeah, the awkwardness is real. And I think it starts with recognizing that you are actually interfacing with the person of God, right? He's not just an ethereal spirit out there. God is spirit. But he became flesh. And he is our Father.
And he dwells with the Holy Spirit. And we are responding to that. And the awkwardness, I think, on some level comes down to paying greater attention to other people besides God. Like we're either paying attention that we might be overheard by somebody. Or our spouse might think something about us.
Or I don't like the way I sound. Well, on every level I'm thinking about everybody else but God. Yeah, that's interesting. So when we fix our eyes on God, we fix our eyes on him, then again that calibration happens. I'm talking to the living God. And he has accepted me. And he has said, come to me.
And here I am. So it begins to take the focus off ourselves. No, it's good. I'm thinking sometimes Gene and I are hoping the boys are listening, right? We're praying to model it and make sure they know we're connected to the Lord in that way. I think in that respect, another key question is being able to hear from God. I mean, like anything, if we're doing all the talking, we're not doing much listening. And so the importance, and again, Gene is so good with that at the end of our prayer, just to calm our hearts and say, okay, let's just hear what the Lord's having to say to us. That's a great focal point too. And it may be harder than praying is actually sitting and listening. Nowadays especially, I think, because there are so many distractions, the pace of life. I want to meet Gene. She sounds like a wonderful, just a wonderful woman.
She really is. You know, we're wrapping up here. I want to hit three quick things that you mentioned in the book. Be hopeful, create margin, pray continually.
So just fill those in what they mean. Yeah, I think when we pray, we need to pray expecting that God will move, right? That being hopeful. Yeah, that's the hopefulness. And one of the things we walk couples through in this book is they go through an inventory at the beginning where they kind of grade their marriage, the various aspects of their marriage, communication, intimacy, how do we deal with financial issues?
How do we deal with conflict? And they grade it on a scale of one to 10. Then they commit to doing these 40 days of prayer. And the hope is at the end of those 40 days, they can go back and they redo the inventory. They say, how has God moved in our communication? How has God moved? So I think we expect God to move immediately or not at all. And God doesn't often do that. He moves over time steadily. He transforms over time through steady sanctification. And then the second piece of creating margin, he has a really good rule, like a one to one ratio. So if I'm sitting, making my request to God for 10 minutes, maybe I should at least sit for 10 minutes and listen and wait for the Lord. Sit and be like Jean. And the Holy Spirit will tell you what to pray for in those moments, too, when you give the margin.
That's the conversational piece. And then the final one, praying continually. You know, Paul tells us, and I think it's 1 Thessalonians 517, pray continually.
It's a really short verse. But that's an attitude of prayer. I think early on we talked about having this kind of awareness. We have a friend who does tactical training, like for civilians, right?
He's an ex-army ranger. And one of the things he says is when you go into a situation, to be situationally aware doesn't mean you're paranoid. It just means that you're aware. And so praying continually, I think, is a function of being aware of your situation and thinking, I can pray, I can bring this to God right now. And that's an attitude of prayer. It's not that you're constantly in your prayer closet, hands folded, eyes closed all day long. It's just that you know that God is with you and you can converse with him throughout the day.
So true. Ryan, let's end with you praying for us. Can we do that? Praying for the listeners, the married couples who maybe haven't prayed together much and opening their hearts to doing it. Let's do it.
Okay. Lord, we come to you. Thank you for the ability to pray.
Thank you that you've allowed us to converse with you this freely. Lord, I pray that it would not be something that we take for granted, but it was something that we would press into and then hear and press into hearing back from you through our prayers. I pray for the husbands and the wives listening to this, the marriages represented by those individuals. I pray that you would teach them how to pray. Show them how to pray for one another. Show them how to pray with each other.
Remove barriers, remove distractions and awkwardness. But Lord, I pray that they would just experience your goodness and relationship with you through this gift of prayer. In your precious name. Amen. Such a great conversation with Ryan and Celina Frederick on this episode of Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I trust that you've picked up some really tangible ways that you can make prayer a priority in your own marriage.
Yeah. Prayer is so foundational for close relationship, and I think every couple could pray more for one another. Set a reminder on your phone.
Write a note to yourself. Do whatever it takes to reinforce prayer in your marriage. Maybe you're in a place where you don't feel like praying for your spouse.
I get it. If your marriage needs that kind of help, please get in touch with us. Our Hope Restored Marriage Intensives can change the way you relate to each other seriously.
We have several locations around the U.S. where husbands and wives that are coming in with brokenness. And we are working together every day to heal those relationships. The good news is two years later we go back and survey those couples.
Eighty percent of them are still married and doing better. And Jim, as you know, they do such great work. Dina and I had the chance a few years back to go and experience a Hope Restored session. My goodness, what a terrific work for couples, and it changed our own relationship in a pretty profound way. Yeah, and you can be a part of that restoration when you give a gift of any amount to the ministry here at Focus on the Family, which includes Hope Restored. We'll send you a copy of Ryan and Selina's book, Forty Prayers for My Wife and Forty Prayers for My Husband, as our way of saying thank you for standing for marriage. Yeah, join the support team today and request those books.
We've got the details in the show notes. You can also call us if you'd prefer. Our number is 800, the letter A, and the word family.
800-232-6459. Well, join us again tomorrow as Bob Lapine explains why Easter is life-changing. And God made the one with perfect righteousness to be sin on our account, to take our sin, so that we could then have the righteousness that belonged to him put like a robe over us. And now when God looks at us, he says, oh, I see your righteousness. He's really seeing the righteousness of Christ covering us.
And that's why Good Friday is Good Friday. On behalf of the entire team, thanks for listening to Focus on the Family with Jim Daly. I'm John Fuller inviting you back as we once again help you and your family thrive in Christ. We'll help you find the root of your problems and face them together. Call us at 1-866-875-2915. We'll talk with you, pray with you, and help you find out which program will work best. That's 1-866-875-2915.
