Share This Episode
Finishing Well Hans Scheil Logo

The First Shall Be Last and the Last Shall Be First: IRAs

Finishing Well / Hans Scheil
The Truth Network Radio
November 10, 2018 8:30 am

The First Shall Be Last and the Last Shall Be First: IRAs

Finishing Well / Hans Scheil

On-Demand Podcasts NEW!

This broadcaster has 241 podcast archives available on-demand.

Broadcaster's Links

Keep up-to-date with this broadcaster on social media and their website.

November 10, 2018 8:30 am

It is “Finishing Well”s” first LIVE show. This week, Hans and Robby visited Peace Church in Durham, NC to discuss IRAs, and go more into depth about Qualified Charitable Distributions.


Robby discusses Matthew: 20, the parable of the day laborer. The story is basically that a landowner whent to hire workers in the morning for his vineyard and offered them to pay thema  denarius for the day. 2 hours later, he got another group to come to work, and then he got another group, with one hour left, hre brought another group. At the end of the day, everyone got a denarius, as that is what he promised them. The workers who worked longer were upset that they got the same payment as the people who only worked an hour.


Almost everyone gets angry when they have to take out money out of their IRA when they turn 70 ½, especially when they have to pay taxes on this money. A lot of people view this as their savings account, and it is for many people because it is the account with the largest amount of money at their disposal. Natuall, with a savings account, you are going to want to save not spend. But that is not what IRA’s were designed for. They were basically designed to replace pensions that were going away at the time and to give people and income to live off of in retirement.


Some people also like to use IRAs as a vehicle to pass money onto their children or spouse once they pass. While this is a great cause, this might not be the best way to do this as, no matter what, someone is going to have to pay the taxes on money when it comes out of an IRA. More often than not, as Hans discusses, the children who get this money take the lump sum and lose a lot of money to taxes. Hans and Robby discuss strategies to leave this money in a more tax-effective way.


Lastly, Hans and Robby disuccss QCDs, or Qualified Charitable Distributions. These are one way to take out money from your IRA, possibly to meet your required minimum distributions, and not pay taxes on the money. With QCDs, you can give up to $100,000 per year per person to a Church, or other charity, tax-free. This strategy works great for many people, but you definitely need to consult with a professional before implementing it.

Don’t forget to get your copy of “The Complete Cardinal Guide to Planning for and Living in Retirement” on Amazon or on for free!


If you would like Hans and Robby to come to your church, you can contact Hans and Cardinal by emailing or calling 919-535-8261. Learn more at


Welcome to finishing well brought to you by Cardinal certified financial planner on six child best-selling author and financial planner helping families finish well over 40 years finishing well will examine both biblical and practical knowledge to assist families in finishing well, including discussions on managing Medicare IRA long-term care life insurance and investments and taxes. Now let's get started with finishing well welcome to really fun episode of finishing well because this is our first time ever to do this in front of a live sort of church studio audience so on. Since his father were here at peace church in Durham and they have very graciously allowed us to come in on Wednesday night and record the show for them and it's for Keisha to do because I titled this one. The first shall be last of the last shall be first IRAs, so that's good to be fun doing this with portable equipment and just change and environmental change it up, I do want to let a lot of our listeners know be interested in you like to invite us to your church just sent us a message on the website or give us a call and let us know we'd be honored to come out recorder court session and I think is as you hear the show today, you'll see how applicable it is to a church and to how possibly you can leverage your resources for the kingdom, and in this way through something talk about today show, but distant jump on in there you know Jesus had this parable in Matthew 20 where it most people call it the parable of the day labor and the way the story goes.

This is the RSV, the Robbie standard version are not reading it word for word, but basically these they went out to these workers and they offered them to come work in the morning. Fred and Mary and a course name work. These guys have dried up the mirror like yeah we got to come work for about two hours later they came back another group and said they want to work for her to marry us in the second group goes, I will work for that area.

So you know they they charge the field ready to go work for their working working working about 3 o'clock workers so they go back and get another group where you work for Darius and of course those guys go just one hour last the foreman comes out and says hey you guys want to work for in our work for the rest of the day for denarius and course they hook right up and so you can imagine this scene as these people lined up to get paid right that no you know what the heck is going on here. These people that I bore the working all day and let me know what all this leads people shop the last. It's not fair it's not fair. Robbie was running this idea by me getting ready for the show was a film right there that I have been describing continuously how angry people, good Christian people are angry about having to take money out of their IRA and pay taxes on when their 70 it just people stockpile money and IRAs. Told not to ever pulling money out of this because you go to taxes on advice from everybody other stockpile which is a good thing when they reach that milestone the 70 now they have to take money is called an RMD required distribution and on the show we teach you about some of my book, but when I'm referring to here specifically is just just help when I really when Robbie is listening.

He's telling me I could just really feel the same anger of these people that had worked eight hours getting paid the same as somebody. It's like a big sheet and is just not fair.

And so I'm not believe me. I actually know Jesus was not teaching about IRAs. I know that's a shock. He had a really good good good message. In fact even said when he was trying to describe in are you mad at me because I'm a good man are you mad at me because I'm generous with my own money.

So the interesting thing to go back a little bit and in him and to get to that what Jesus had in mind but also want to fill in a few of the details, you know, the government came up with this idea for IRAs.

It was actually a brilliant strategy to help a whole lot of folks and how much money is in those accounts now approaching $30 trillion $27 trillion. That's what it was about a year ago.

In all the individual retirement accounts, 403 B's 401(k)s and then the plant just my perspective, the Social Security trust fund is $3 trillion $27 trillion therein. Accounts for the most part Lester Ross tax taxes is not paid on yet the government wants the money and there and get their money, but that should give us a somewhat of a secure feeling for retirement. There's that much private money is held for paying people that I just for one you just being say or what we usually think the government is crazy come up with anything that makes sense, but oh my word to this strategy work. I mean think how many trillions at all those or are there available for people to finish well to be able to create an estate for their family to be able to give to their churches and in literally finish well with resources that they know that they accumulated like for the book of Proverbs consciously adding and adding and adding it so as these people add money into this these accounts and they watch these accounts growing. Next thing you know how I got $350,000 when the government says okay now you gotta start taking money out. That's not infertile folks. This is her savings account. Many times this is the this is the largest sum of money at their disposal anytime they want to get the savings account to pay taxes on so but this is their savings account and they're in charge of it and so they are naturally going to not want pull anything out and it's really there so that you can pull something out of it in retirement and you can pull something out of it like strategically over your lifetime and for your spouse or surviving spouse, their lifetime, and it's really intended to replace a pension because along we develop these we can get rid of pensions in the workplace so these two people would work a long time for one company and they believed was a monthly check and survivor benefits those things are less sure with a government institution or a huge corporation or whatever those are pretty much gone book with the replaced with is a deposit, partly put in by you match with your employer and your people have built these balances that is really intended to create an income for you in retirement. Okay and there's a lot of tax advantages to setting up these accounts and so for the most part I cry feeling clients coming into their all focused on the accumulation and the investment of that account in their for the most part we've just come through a pretty good long many years of over the stock market just gone consistently up in its really raised expectations of people but it's a good thing because people that maybe had $200,000 in their five years ago, six, seven years ago they might have 330 now or you know it's it's it's it's a wonderful system, but they also could loose that if we went through something like we did in 2008 2009 and we probably will at some point will look exactly like so most folks that I run into that are retiree and more recently retired and focused on accumulation and investment, but now she retired now. Priorities change means first of all, risk is a big thing you can't, you're not adding to that you don't have a lot of time.

You can afford to lose a bunch stock market downturn. So risk is important but even more important is creating an income for life. And then it's a people don't want to withdraw from it because they're afraid that they're going to get into their 80s and run out of money. Don't know how much to withdraw yet so that they get what minimum what is at it the distribution. It's called what is called a required minimum distributions and good movies things that are to write RMD in the last chapter 4 in the book chapter 5 is frustrating.

I Got I acquired all this. Now I've got to do a minimum distribution is not fair. And so what happens is right, they don't, you know, without any financial help they take the angle of not wanting that money to go out and when they do that they don't realize what they might be doing to their heirs because there's a tax bomb that's willing that's going to explode with that money. That money hasn't been taxed and at some point in time is going to get taxed and if it comes through inheritance and all that stuff right bit so by actually going over the minimum distribution and getting into it a good smart distribution of that money, you'd kids don't end up with his big whopping tax bomb. This may sound a little self-serving, but you need professional help. You certainly need to be a good researcher, you need to be objective in your research and I will give the same advice to everybody and that's what I want to be clear that were not giving advice on this radio show about what we want you to go under with your IRA were just talking about some of the variables in some of the priorities, but each person sitting in this room is different and have different needs risk that you're willing to take a different age, different season life. Some of you that have IRAs need some of the money from it some love retired people they don't need this money, they got Social Security check. They got other savings that they've had their house paid off their this IRA money is just sitting there and it's accumulating what Robbie just said is if they just do nothing with it other than take the minimum.

What happens is, and we see it all the time something passes away and biscuits left to their kids and their kids come and see us.

And they say all the beneficiary of that regular check in on us and I will write about your urine have pay taxes on that. So if we got $200,000 in their you're only really going to net probably hundred 2000 $30,000 out of this. Maybe even less.

You gotta put the rest of that back aside her descendents, the government now and or we could stretch this out over your lifetime. I got all kinds strategies that I could show them how to stretch this thing out and so weak.

We've got to take to just we gotta go get a dynamic business in Amish with certified financial planner on silent. What we talk about today is based on his book the complete cargo guide to planning for living in retirement of available cargo and we come back to find out a little bit more what Jesus had in mind on the service and generosity. We hope you are enjoying finishing well brought you by Cardinal is a cardinal for free downloads of preview shows including episodes about Social Security and Medicare, IRAs, long-term care, life insurance, investments and taxes as well as Han's best-selling book, the complete cargo guide to planning for and living in retirement. Plus the accompanying workbook. If you want to follow along with today's topic download free PDF had cargo by going to the seven worries tab of today's show topic to scroll down to useful documents once again for free resources shows to get Han's book the complete Cardinal guide to planning for and living in retirement or the work will go to Cardinal you have a question, comment or suggestion for future shows.

Click on finishing well radio show and send us a word. Once again that's Cardinal Cardinal now back to finishing well by Cardinal welcome back to finishing well with certified financial planner on child and today show or talk about the first will be last in the last will be first IRAs and women talk about our initial response. My response would be like. It's not fair to take this money now injured in a taxi that I'm not can have it but and and the next thing I know I'm just taking the minimum distribution and by the way the government while you're doing that is licking their chops like see if Morgan is take the minimum distribution that's exactly what it was over they would so when we started make decisions based on what is fair. I really do want to get to what I think Jesus was was saying here is that these workers that came in the parable, they came to the first day they bear the brunt of the work they got all that stuff and they really felt like it would be fair that they would get more than the guy that just came the last hour and a course I think most believers would see that the person to get saved you know it. Other deathbed is getting at the same heaven that that you got them, and that's certainly applicable I think but there's something very key for me Robbie Gilmore to pay attention to is a member to talk about two CDs and what that would do to build the kingdom of God is just awesome qualified charitable contributions. But what Jesus was really telling Robbie Gilmore as Robbie, I don't care what you do right. I don't care how many radio shows you do for God. I don't care how much you got up every morning and pray I care about who you are and who who's coming into the kingdom right if it's not about me, work, work, working to earn God's pleasure. No part of that that's in the equation and the neat thing. If you look at the context. Matthew 20 it kinda fits in therebetween that you know of those who give up churches and houses and all that. That's the first time he says in the last will be first but then right after this parable, James and John decide, hey we need to be the big shot and whether they talk about what we're going to do for God and and and the idea is if I'm the big door for God like Pastor James year. That must mean he's the cheese right that he's got to be first because he did the most in the kingdom and empty and God is like Robbie, this isn't about what you do. It's about your relationship with me.

It's about what we do together. It's about how we can enjoy the kingdom together and those kind of things and when I look at this subject of IRAs. Honestly, I think wow are you letting all that money sitting in that account when you could be using it to go on a journey with Jesus may be that type in your church or maybe to do something with your family that would build a relationship that would build love and joy and peace and patience considers this huge resource army trying 27 trillion 27 trillion that is more than unbelievable. But if we think by giving that into CDs. The church that were to get a better place you missed the point yeah and so from the planners standpoint, build it up here is we have a lot of people sitting on the money. They're not even familiar with the rules for minimum distributions. I've learned it's very hard to learn something dramatic when you're angry. Okay, so she could deal with the anger and just kind of it just is. Gotta pay taxes on this IRA, you can actually learn what are the required minimum distribution rules because you don't want to violate so just for the understanding when you turn 70 1/2 yester taken money. The different amount every year I can help you without somebody like me can help you calculate all that.

But the point is just taking the minimum may not be the best route for and so a person in a family that's enjoying, low taxes don't have a lot of other income besides your Social Security.

You don't really pay taxes and so security. If you have a little other income is still paying taxes on your Social Security and you don't pay much taxes and the other income until you have a lot income. Now you're going to pay higher taxes on the lot income and you can pay taxes on your Social Security so it's a it's a formula, but I just see a lot of people that have a Social Security check spelling other savings were not tapping their IRA and they get mad about the fact that they have to do it by help him do it and they're just building up this big money, that's gonna be there and they feel good about leaving it to their kids, and that's great care of the surviving spouse that's gray-black just tell you that a lot of the kids to cash it in, pay the taxes and they're not gonna follow the continuation of ways to postpone itself what we really want to talk about in here is planning this out better than just looking at it and assign them to take this much this year and just take the minimum and will hope for the best. We'll see what we have next year. How about if we set down we said okay were to get a multiyear plan to start taking it out even if you're not 7065 or retired.

Maybe were going to start taking out some every year now and if we can pay the taxes on it and we can just move it over into an account that's not taxable.

So it's just a savings account or some type of investment where you could draw from that. So there's a lot of other things leading up to the QCD. What you wanted to talk about in here specifically in the church and to all the people in your listening is this when a few years ago and there's a thing called a qualified charitable distribution so you are allowed if your 70 1/2 or older and have money in an IRA or something that has to be an IRA that you can distribute up to $100,000 in any one year per person, but let's just get a little more real. Just get that energy had $200,000 in an IRA distributor hundred thousand give it to the church. That's the maximum but any amount that you withdraw with the minimum that you could give to the church okay and you would that would not show up on your tax return now. I don't want anybody around do this without professional help. There needs to be a proper way that the monies drawn from the custodian right boxes need to be marked and no tax withheld. But, so if you have somebody that had a $5000 a year minimum just they could instead of taking that in cash in paying the taxes they could take the minimum distribution given directly to the church any qualified charity mark all the boxes correctly in the money just go straight to the church.

No income taxes. They could also do 10,000 or they could do 5000 of themselves which they would pay taxes and add another 5000 go to church so there's all types of flexibility with gotta be 70 1/2 and if you have a spouse were one of his older and one of his over that threshold and you would just make this contribution out of the older spouse that's over seven and ultimately you could leave the whole thing to the church and or a portion of the whole thing a beneficiary you need to set all that up right and you could just completely bypassed the tax now, make another point with that and the other point is that the amount that you give like if you're giving currently in tithing to the church and you're doing that out of your money that you've already paid taxes on you could just simply shifts that giving to her. Now you're giving it directly out of your IRA and you to effectively beginning a tax deduction as many seniors are in a position where their taken standard deductions are not getting the full benefit of deducting their tithing to the church and so they could shift some of the money around how it's going and create a very favorable tax situation so also you see the Savior to your tithing.

$500 a month. The church right and so after-tax dollars you probably lose the hundred dollars to Pam taxes. Like I and so by giving it out of the QCD that same $500 you can give all 500 without losing the hundred right so that you yeah or you can still get the 400 and you have $100 more to go to Jesus labor what to shameless plug matters are but you know that's that's part of the strategy of what were talking about now. We do want it might mention again that we really feel like a lot of finishing well has to do with how God would would simply want us to finish with the resources that we have and so we do really think that this is really applicable for churches. We would love to come to your church are listed today, Sam, Robbie, how can I find out I get the Hans finishing well show at my church. Well, go to cargo and there you to see Hans's number. Hans's email address and say Hans I would love for you to come here which by the way, you can send them an email saying I want the book for for you and send it when you can send a message directly on the website can also call us get your copy of my book. The books you know if you right into me. I'll be glad to mail you a copy of a book or email you want to get the book on Amazon. It's very inexpensive. We really want to get the teaching and we talk about a lot more than IRA Medicare long-term care investments and taxes and all the subjects that are in the book is what were doing on the show.

Jan if you listen to the show you like really to hear more, but we certainly want to make available to you, and it's available right in their cargo always the seven worries tab which we know right pastor not supposed to worry, it's like, and so we work will prepare you for this have to do seven worries tab you can get this chapter on Aires is free. I just downloaded this right there and available and cargo you got to remember the guide can't just put Cardinal to go to Cardinal guy had a a certified financial planner Hongqiao Hans.

This was a lot of fun out here teachers. I remember the first shall be last and the last shall be first, but you know I think about that is if you go to purchase right now or intimates now.

I'm pretty sure you'll be first on his list immediately. He's going to come and commune with you and so don't wait to last-minute to be first on the same you could go well and being the first. All you gotta do is ask and kinda like Will Smith and the movie. I think of it, the golf movie but anyways had I been right here which is whole time. Thanks for listening to finishing well. Thanks. We hope you enjoyed finishing well brought you by Cardinal is a cardinal for free downloads of the show or previous shows on topics such as Social Security, Medicare and IRAs, long-term care, life insurance, investments and taxes as well as ponds best-selling book, the complete cardinal guide to planning for and living in retirement and the workbook once again for dozens of free resources past shows you get Hans will go to Cardinal if you have a question, comment, suggestion for future shows. Click on the finishing well radio show on the website and send us a word. Once again, that's cardinal

Get The Truth Mobile App and Listen to your Favorite Station Anytime