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The Strategy of QAVAH: Evaluating Social Security Strategies

Finishing Well / Hans Scheil
The Truth Network Radio
February 23, 2019 8:30 am

The Strategy of QAVAH: Evaluating Social Security Strategies

Finishing Well / Hans Scheil

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February 23, 2019 8:30 am

Many of us are familiar with the idea of waiting on the Lord. For years, Robby explains, he thought just waiting was okay. He then explains how he studied QAVAH, from Genesis, and found that sometimes there is waiting, but sometimes you need to twist into your situation and get more insight. This twisting can help retirees find the right answer to when to claim their Social Security benefit.


Hans and Robby discuss 2 couples this week who have taken an usual route to their Social Security benefit:


The first couple is from Ohio. When they came to Hans they learned that the wife was going to be able to claim half of her husband's Social Security benefit. They were claiming the very small $120 benefit the wife had accrued during her working years. They had to suspend this, give back the money, and they will wait to claim off her husband for about $1,500 a month. Social Security has this built in “Oops clause” that allows you to do this within the first 12 months of electing your benefit.


The second couple, in Indiana, have to decide how their Social Security is going to work with their declining health as well as taxes. The husband is 62 and not in the greatest of health. He also has the possibility of still working and earning an income. While for sicker people, it is usually advantageous to start your benefit as soon as possible to maximize your money, if he earns over $17,000 a year, his benefit will be taxed. Hans goes through his situation and explains the compromise they came to.


Social Security full retirement age is a moving target, for people retiring right now, it is around age 66, in a few years, it will be around age 67. It is important to look into the decision well before you make it. Make sure to make QAVAH part of your life!


Don’t forget to get your copy of “The Complete Cardinal Guide to Planning for and Living in Retirement” on Amazon or on for free!


You can contact Hans and Cardinal by emailing or calling 919-535-8261. Learn more at

Finishing Well
Hans Scheil
Rob West and Steve Moore
Finishing Well
Hans Scheil
Rob West and Steve Moore
Rob West and Steve Moore
Finishing Well
Hans Scheil

Welcome to finishing well brought to you by Cardinal certified financial planner Shiloh best-selling author and financial planner helping families finish well over 40 years of finishing well will examine both biblical and practical knowledge to assist families in finishing well, including discussions on managing Medicare IRA long-term care life insurance and investments and taxes. Now let's get started. Finishing well on finishing well we have a very provoking topic and its show on Social Security but it's the strategy of copper and I don't remember reading that wanted my Social Security training. The book that I play Cardinal guide to planning for living in retirement. You won't find a strategy, but you will find it in the Bible you'll find at several places and is clearly indicated in your chapter will outline some of that is going to the podcast after today upfront to find out, but you know a lot of people are familiar with the concept of waiting on the Lord. It's in Psalms 27 in the course. Everybody loves a passage in Isaiah 4031. You know those that wait upon the Lord will rise up with linked wings like eagles and that's a beautiful thing but for years I thought waiting on the Lord meant you know. Okay, wait, you know it's it's common it's common it's going to be okay.

I'm just waiting I'm waiting on the Lord now okay what I'm waiting you know that was kind of busy idea but as I studied that word.

The word is, and there's more to it than just waiting.

In fact, if you really studied the word and I have you'll find the first place. You'll find it is in Genesis when God was gathering the waters together to bring the dry ground and there's an idea of twisting in their that comes with, so is your gathering things. It is sort of this twisting will you eat. You seen how waters gather in a twist and if you've ever seen a waterspout you get an idea what that may be, but there's another thought about this. With that, that God is three people and so when you look in Ecclesiastes 412 right assist you know that a man might be one man. Maybe you know be overthrown and two are hard to fight with a three court strand is not easily broken, and the idea being you got the father, the son of the Holy Spirit there twisting into one another in this conflict concept of, and if you can twist into that. Not just wait begin to twist into that now were talk about Social Security right Hans, your at and so there is something to waiting sometimes when it comes to Social Security but twisting into it and understanding it.

In getting more insight is really helpful. In fact, some of our listeners to our podcast. They thought they were waiting by the end but they were quite copying sure, but there were twisting in me because there they found us through the podcast. In fact, I have these three clients who come to us, one in Ohio one in Indiana and one in Pennsylvania and elk came within a couple weeks of each other and they all came from the podcast first which is most just to be God at work delivering my podcast I worked very very hard. Are our podcast to Ohio and Pennsylvania coming home in the world of the fighting right in and there you have an iTunes is really handy thing in the night the neat things you know if if you can go to iTunes and look up finishing well.

You'll find it there, you can you can subscribe and so every time it comes out every week. It's right there in your phone and you can listen or you can binge listen, which a lot of folks do know to 10, 12, 14 episodes are gone on a long trip and then you can hear a bunch of so all three of these people are clients really for everything that we offer, and they have questions about it and they found his first on the podcast and then they purchase the books and then called us up.

And in this one gentleman from Ohio and his wife.

They found themselves in a little pickle about Social Security so he's a researcher he can listen to the show for a good while on on iTunes run spot a fire. Somehow he found it, to dig into that little deeper because I'm always as a marketer, a man one to spread the word. Is it I want to know how somebody found it clear up in Ohio and Pennsylvania because I want figure out a way to do more but any case, he had listened and really learned from the show from us that his wife was going to be eligible for half of his benefit when they both go on Social Security and the retire which is going to be about three years from now.

He's 63, she 62 they'd like to retire sooner, but that's part of why they hired us is to date to tell him like when they can look at the different outcomes, and really make that decision, but he pretty much Artie seen that lemonade worked on 66 and then we need to decide do we wait even longer to recover for Social Security do we wait till 70 where he got himself in trouble and you can sit down and read my book, listen to some podcasts you can pretty much get the gist of this thing that age 62 is the earliest you can take it you know it says right in the book and not owe any just and Eileen actually you know that when I first started in the shower when I was 16 and you can get pretty much above 70% of your full retirement age benefit and then you could wait till 70 and if your 70 you can get about 30% more so instead of 70% of the benefit you can get like 130%. That's an oversimplification, but the concept is sound and then full retirement age is different depending on it's either going to be 66 and up to 67 S. 65 anymore then been that for a number of years, but it's a moving target by that's one of the times they shored up the Social Security benefits are just moving your full retirement age for two years and so the people are retiring right now it's 866 and then the people and like what you say another, seven, eight, nine years it's going to be the full 67 sing out for this guy.

It's about 66 and so many months like six months or four months and so he is looking all this you think that's cool.

Iran the report. Like it says to do in the book he saw these can get about 3000 a month.

He did the math. He said you know what I my wife can get about 1500 months of between the two is really good. 4500 a month at 66 so that hunts guys really help me out. Joan showed me this so that he's looking at her report any seeing that she would only be getting about 200 and some bucks a month at 66 or whatever age was because she didn't work all assembled in many quarters so it's clearly she's can be better off doing the 50% thing so then he took the next leap he went ahead and applied for her early retirement of at 62, which is hundred 20 bucks a month. Okay, so they been collecting 120 bucks a month for about six months it just kinda giggling about until they talk to me okay I'm listing I said you did what so my client from Ohio they they did that mean they were calling me.

The only problem is the took some actions before that and so now part of my job is to fix the broken stuff so it was actually pretty easy. We did some research I said look, I'm just can advise that he suspend the thing he send the money back and now that that's fascinating, of itself to me that you can literally go loops for the first year after you've made your decision. If you've gone early so if you're sitting there right now at 62, and six months ago you applied for Social Security.

There is an oops clause. There is so two-year up to 12 months. You can file with the Social Security you say I want to send the money back. I'm sorry I filed.

I don't want to file I want to renege. Whatever the exact wording is on that and sent and they've Artie done that.

They just so you can send the group the government back the money they sent you an it's like a oops clause and then and now, you can still select when she's 66 or whatever age would be the best toccata and weight right but twist in looking at your options and understanding that things change. You know, based on your health, your wife's health and you know where you're working or not working on a lot of things that affect so that the answer to this story is yes you can get 50% of your spouse's full retirement age Social Security check as a spousal benefit long as you been married more than 10 years. Even if you're divorced, you can do that as long as you were married 10 years, which can't take your benefit early collect that up to full retirement age and then switch over to that that doesn't work. Once you file with Social Security your file name so they were real happy to learn about the 12 month exception right because what it would appear again. Whenever could nail it down because, like Jell-O, but it would appear that you know her 50% would've been reduced substantially even enough for the rest of her life because of taking it at age 62. Yeah, again, your list into finishing well brought to you by Cardinal and today show are talking about the strategy of kava when it comes to Social Security which you know those who wait on the wart Lord will rise up with wings like eight eagles at end and there's a lot that has to do with that and I don't want anybody to miss the spiritual significance of what it means to truly wait on the Lord and in common into him, but when it comes to even financial decisions in a court of three strands distance not easily broken as it we talk about in Ecclesiastes.

But again, what were talking about today is is based on the book the complete Cardinal guide to planning for and living in retirement. You can find all where you had 7 to Avenel. Of those worries or concerns or place that you can kava and wait on the Lord, will you twist into them is Social Security and so you can get a free write down downloading me all the chapters of both my books are right there on the seven worries tab that individual chapter is for free with the download of the PDF. You also can find both these books on Amazon. You can just look under on trial or complete Cardinal guide and is well if we've had a few more people taken us up on this, which is wonderful as it could go on our website Cardinal types a message tell us who you are and you'd like a copy of the book give us your address and will send them both out to you. No charge.

Happy to do it.

You absolutely because the more that I have been doing the show now and we been doing it over year in and as I get into this age with my father and all is going on.

The more I realized that the baseline support for Social Security is kind of like what everything else builds on around that essentially super annuity that we did is as a result of having paid into it all these years and and it's a huge part of planning for living in retirement and so when we come back today show.

We got more of that, strategy on social and I Hans and I would love to take our show on the road to your church and Sunday school Christian or civic group.

Here's a chance for you to advance the kingdom through financial resources and leveraging harms expertise and qualified charitable contributions veterans aid and attendance IRA Social Security care and long-term care.

Just go to Cardinal and contact Tom to schedule a live recording of finishing well at your church Christian or civic contact Tom to Cardinal that's Cardinal welcome back to finishing well today show is the Social Security strategy of kava which is the Hebrew word if you were to look in the concordance. I went out and says wait on the Lord or when you're waiting on the Lord in Isaiah 4031 or wait on the Lord in the 27th Psalm you know that you can a rate rise up with wings of Eagles. That word weighed in in Hebrew is, and what that word really means gives us an idea of there's more than just sitting there and waiting and and I think that, like me, when you begin to really understand kava and begin to twist into the Lord as were waiting there some joy there just, you know, in his presence is fullness of joy. It's that it's an amazing thing and it's interesting how he will send you counselors know is the timing of fonts coming into my life at this stage of my father's now with hospice care.

You're honestly it's hard but oh my word.

I can imagine, having traversed the survey the things that I've done in the last seven or eight months without your help on scripts, you know, in his Social Security. You know it's a big way. Part of the way that me and we talked about it being the baseline and here's my father very very well off man.

You know, owned his own business, did a lot of things really really well but when you look at the baseline of where his income comes every month and how he pays his bills even he it's and so scared it is me that brings a point together Social Security is I hear people in their 50s and 40s and maybe even early 60s when they're coming to us that have high incomes and they have savings just belittling Social Security when they that you know they just is going to be so much there, looking at with their parents checks were. They have really tuned into it yet.

They're coming to us and I mean when I look at people that are 80, 8590 95 where were doing financial planning for these people and I look at the household income and what their spending and worth going to Social Security are the two Social Security checks with the husband and wife there to significant debt.

I can be pretty close to $5000 a month now and that's coming in every month for the rest your life sure and possibly tax-free so that the concept of, or wait is pretty good general rule, but it's different for everybody.

And the Lord may tell you to take it 62.

Based on your spouse health or your health or or something in your situation you know waiting on the Lord doesn't mean you get up necessarily take some time. It just means that you he's can help you know when the time is absolutely right. Sure sent. So let's talk about the folks from Indiana there situation like everyone else's, is unique. He 61 just turned 61 just retired. He's going turned 62 in the fall of this year. His wife when we met him was 64 just turned 65. Going on Medicare and him just retiring and you know hers is a good part of the deal reporter on Medicare and Medicare supplement and a snack and a custom whole arm and leg. His on the other hand on health insurance he can get on Medicare for four more years. 3 1/2 or whatever and so we weep a big part of what we did is solve in their health insurance from, but back Social Security. These folks have done a wonderful job of saving money to have have over $1 million in IRAs and then they've got about another $200,000 in not IRA money or nonqualified money and then they really have no pensions, so that's not an SI VSP Road have a pension or a million bucks. I'll take the million, but I can create a pension on been added to this, he has Parkinson's early Parkinson's and we still working out every day and he was working up until a month ago orbit.

He has a sense of what the future holds for him and he thinks God every day for the medicines that are that in an hour able to help with that. But is very progressive and then he also had a slight stroke so his thinking is. Let's start to Social Security as early as we can because we don't want to just pass away in five or six years and leave money on the so with her being now 65 and she's pretty close to her full retirement age, and she had a reasonably sized good sized Social Security check, and of like 900 and some bucks a month. She didn't work all the years, but it's enough that the cheesecake and iron some bucks a month. They just wanted to start that now so they got a check coming in from somewhere which I agree with and then he has made the decision to file in the some changes at age 62, which will be November this coming through this year so it's just just just a few months from now several months.

But when that comes around he's gonna file and he's going to get like 2800 bucks a month or something like that.

He's going to get it every month but it is high in the knees taking it early because he made a good income, and then she is going to turn around and file for spousal benefits because half of what his would've been at six if it's complicated when a he's always words and prepositions and all I can stop but the general strategy that is she's filing now collecting 900 bucks a month for all of this year. He's filing late in the year since the beginning of next year.

Getting a sizable reduce check and then she's going to file for the spousal benefits giving up her getting the half of his because that's based upon her full retirement age, not his. So you plug all that in and sees them also likely tucked them in the person in the earlier segment because she filed early. They'll be some reduction in the 50% big. It may rightly 10% of sheep was 65 when she filed that 10% will carry on into the spousal 50% and gathers a lot of percentages and and and more. The reason I think, to not try this at home because there's a lot of math that goes in that you guys have a computer program hallelujah we we got all that and furthermore their health is a consideration and then the fact that these folks need some income coming in and out is working to create income of the million bucks are the 1.2 million in there going there to live just fine and we but but it's nice to have that basis of security that we can plan and then there's one other caveat to this he might come back to work as a consultant.

Now you got once he files his Social Security early November.

Then if he makes more than $17,000 from consulting worker from service income, then he's going to have to give some of his Social Security back so that's one thing that could disrupt the strategies he's got a holy the rest of this year to figure out whether he's going to do consulting work and actually make it happen. And if that happens then he's can delay the Social Security shield delay.

The 50% filing still keep collecting the 900 bucks a month and then they'll just live off of the money he's getting from the consulting say this complicated and we looked at a lot of wheat we did some research, I made a mistake in the advices. I was thinking that him taking it early was can affect her 50% benefit and I was actually wrong about that and so that happens with some clients and we find out that I'm wrong we do that right in front of the client, but you need to be honest none of us are perfect.

Other than God, and in so but in any case, the lesson we want to get from this is, it's complicated.

It's nice to have other money, because if they didn't have other money or substantial other money then this is just be obvious what we doing on the Social Security but because they have the other money they would have the option of delaying it or waiting but through all the planning and the decisions and their wanting to have a check coming in.

We made the decision to take it earlier and preserve some capital in their and their other side and then they bring sin. The question of taxes on Social Security so once you have the check coming in now we go start playing the game with your tax situation and the taxes you pay on your Social Security income are based upon your other taxable income so this gentleman has the advantage of. He's got $200,000 of other money. Besides the million dollars in the IRA and we can pull money out of the other money bucket without any tax in creating taxable income. So. He could live for a few years. Not Robbie's IRA too much in and really pay very close to no taxes, which is real appealing in this real appealing to me that you know just the concept of praying and asking God you cannot, and cannot twist into you on this subject of and allow this assists us in substantial part of the resources that you know you help me so into right does he feel immense on into Social Security. Their whole life and art, since they been working anyway Sivan sewing into these and now you're fixing to reap a harvest of some kind and and why not ask the Lord to harvest wet will what's the best way to leverage this for the kingdom enough for my family as an inheritance. You know that obviously a lot of this allows for inheritance in a based on having my father's case is dated eight expenses are paid out of the Social Security so the rest of it was left to his family as an inherent and and based on the strategy and how long he waited in initially did to get his full skirt because a lot of people he could've fallen for the idea of oh yeah you know I'm in a go early when we lived 80 he released and and you know there's part of the deal. Sure sure so you when I'm not doing and I guess what I'm not trying to teach you how to do Social Security planning on this radio show and when I'm just I can imagine what it be like to just be a listener out there just listening to that gobbledygook that I've been spitting out over the last five minutes and it's almost a little bit confusing to me you can do this you do that you do this you can do that.

He did this and so were not really on the show, trying to teach you the material that's a little bit of it that were what were really trying to do is point you into the books points into the planning points toward God to help you make good decisions for you and a big part of that is going to be seeking help and gallon again it's brought to you by Cardinal and if you go to that it's Cardinal guy, don't forget the and then you can find the seven worries tab we talk about the book that you can get the complete Cardinal guide to planning for living in retirement. And of course you know you can contact Tom's get the full book any question you know obviously keep his passion in life is helping people through this, you know, navigate this, as part of your life. Thank you for listening to funds out of a thank you. We hope you enjoyed finishing well brought you by Cardinal visit Cardinal for free downloads of the show previous shows on topics such as Social Security, Medicare and IRAs, long-term care and life insurance, investments and taxes as well as ponds best-selling book, the complete Cardinal guide to planning for and living in retirement and the workbook once again for dozens of free resources past shows to get Hans book go to Cardinal if you have a question, comment or suggestion for future shows. Click on the finishing well radio show on the website and send us a word. Once again that's Cardinal Cardinal

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