The Christian Duty to be an Informed Voter (with David Closson)

Welcome to Family Policy Matters, a weekly podcast and radio show produced by the North Carolina Family Policy Council. Hi, I'm John Rustin, President of NC Family. In each week on Family Policy Matters, we welcome experts and policy leaders to discuss topics that impact faith and family here in North Carolina. Our prayer is that this program will help encourage and equip you to be a voice of persuasion for family policy matters.

Your family values in your community, state and nation. And now here's the host of Family Policy Matters, Tracy Devitt-Griggs. Thanks for joining us this week for Family Policy Matters. North Carolina's status as a swing state for national elections means we're already inundated with radio and TV ads, political signs, billboards, bumper stickers, robocalls. It's enough to start to make you wonder if it's even possible to know the truth about candidates and how to vote wisely. Christians are even wondering if it'd be better off to keep a healthy distance between our Christian principles and politics. Well, today's guest thinks Christians have a duty to not just vote, but to be informed voters engaged in the political process. David Claussen is director of the Center for Biblical Worldview at Family Research Council. He's also the author of FRC's Biblical Worldview series, which seeks to help Christians and Christian leaders apply the teachings of the Bible to this political process and difficult moral questions.

David Claussen, welcome back to Family Policy Matters. I'm not talking about our time, our money, and our time, but for those of us who are blessed to live in a Constitutional Republic, I believe we're called to be stewards of our vote and of our opportunities in the political process. And then I'd say love of neighbor as well. We know that we are to care for people, friends, and neighbors in a holistic way. I'm caring for my neighbor in a holistic, comprehensive way if I'm not engaging in this whole realm, this whole arena that profoundly affects our basic rights and liberties. So those are two principles I usually use, Tracy, stewardship and love of neighbor for why I think Christians ought to be engaged and care about the political process. Well, that's a much different way of looking at political engagement for Christians than we might see characterized by the other side. Sometimes we're accused of Christian nationalism, and I think you have said that that term has been weaponized to discourage Christians from engaging in the public square. Talk a little bit more about that, and should we succumb to that? The problem with the conversation with Christian nationalism is that no one really agrees on what they're actually talking about.

No one agrees on the definition. And I think, you know, such a thing of Christian nationalism does exist. My definition for true Christian nationalism is when one conflates their Christian and American identity, when a Christian's devotion to their country kind of becomes the all-encompassing passion in their life. I think when that happens, maybe something has gone awry, because I think like all good things, love of country can become an idol. Your love for country supplants your ultimate allegiance, which is obviously owed only to God.

Then I think something is off base a little bit. Thomas Kidd, actually, he's a professor from Midwestern Baptist Theological Seminary. I think he gave a helpful comment when he said patriotism can become Christian nationalism when one gives what he calls an exaggerated transcendent meaning to American history. So I'm not saying that Christian nationalism is not real, but what I do think is probably even most important in this conversation is how the left has weaponized that term, and my view kind of seized on that almost as a buzzword. I think Bill Maher was one of the first people I heard after the January 6th attack on the Capitol here in Washington, D.C. He referred to Christian nationalism and said that the attack was what he called a faith-based initiative.

And I think what we've seen, you know, it's interesting, Tracy, some of that conversation has gone away, but the Biden team seemed to use that phrase a lot. Again, I think it was alarmist rhetoric, a scare tactic, really designed to silence the voice of conservative Christians who simply care about issues like abortion, family, sexuality. And I think it should go without saying that engagement for life and family and religious liberty, that's not nefarious. That's not trying to impose theocracy.

That's not subversive. But that's how that term has been kind of weaponized in our culture. Let's talk a little bit about equating Christianity or being a Christian believer with the Republican Party. So this can be an issue too, right? I mean, especially if people are like, if it's Republican, it must be Christian. That can get us into some trouble.

I can. Former Vice President Mike Pence had the rightly ordered list when he said, I'm a Christian, a conservative, and a Republican in that order. And I think, you know, for years, a Christian conservative was kind of equated with a Republican. And at one level, that was understandable. When you look at the party platforms, you look at the policies that the parties were advocating for and pursuing, I'll be honest, this most recent campaign cycle we find ourselves in right now, it's different.

You're seeing, you know, Republicans who formerly were kind of standard beards for the life issue, walking back a little bit, watering down that language. And so I think when I speak to pastors, I speak to Christians wanting to engage faithfully, I do strongly encourage them to make sure that our loyalties are properly ordered. Our loyalty should never be to party first and foremost. Our loyalty is to the Lord Jesus Christ.

And once we have that in place, then we look at the issues, we look at the party platforms, we look what politicians are saying. But I do think having our loyalties in the proper order is vitally important and will be more so the more un-Christian our nation becomes. We see that, you know, four to six percent of Americans have a biblical worldview these days. And so increasingly, I think we should expect the parties, both parties, to represent faithful Bible-believing, gospel-believing Christians less and less. You know, one of my favorite passages in the New Testament is a mention of the Berean church. And the Bereans would take everything that Paul said—I mean, not some politician, but Paul—they go back to the Scriptures and they would compare it. Do we need to be more Bereans when we're looking at politicians and some of the things that they're telling us, especially sometimes pastors, maybe, are telling us in church?

Well, absolutely. I think 2 Timothy 3.16 tells us that all Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, correcting, rebuking, that the man of God may be equipped for every good work. And so our criterion, our standard, absolutely needs to be the Word of God. You know, Tracy, one of the reasons I feel so passionate about the life issue is not because a political party tells me to be pro-life, but God's Word.

You have Genesis 1 and 2 that tells us that all people born and unborn are made in God's image. We have verses like Psalm 139, verses 13 through 16. We have Luke 1, verses 39 through 45 that tell us what God's opinion is on that issue. You and I don't have to guess what God's opinion is. And so I think, again, for those who have teaching and preaching opportunities, taking the issues of the day and then holding them up to the light of God's Word, we need to do that. And I think some humility is needed here, Tracy, because I think in maybe previous generations you had Christian leaders saying, you know, well, God has a position on pretty much every issue, on ethanol subsidies or capital gains tax.

We need to be honest. The Bible gives us principles to think about every issue, but some issues the Bible is not as clear as on other issues, and where that happens, I think we need to have charity and realize that people in our churches might disagree on some issues. But again, where the Bible is clear, where God is clear, where there's a thus saith the Lord, that is where we need to be very clear.

Right. I love that. I love that attitude of humility. When the Bible is not clear on it, how can we know we're the authorities, right, that we understand what God meant there?

So I love that. I love that example. Give us some, if you would, some examples. What are some ways that we can apply the biblical principles to a lot of these issues? You've mentioned the life issue.

What are some other ways we can look at things? I think some other issues would be the family, religious freedom. We see that the Bible is really clear on the importance of the family union. It's the Christian principle of subsidiarity that says, you know, our obligation, our duty is to that basic unit of the family and that the state and civilizations are built on the strength of rightly formed families, and so policies that relate to education, that relate to family formation, those are things that I think Christians ought to care deeply about. Religious freedom is another really important principle that we see throughout the pages of scripture, particularly in the New Testament.

You know, you and I, Tracy, we cannot force anyone to believe what we do in terms of theology, try as we might. And so I think the Bible holds out a vision where we should advocate for a public square that all people can enter with their basic presuppositions and worldviews. And a public square, again, that allows us to do that is one that we should be fighting for and engaging for.

Those are some issues that I think are really important. And again, going back to what I said earlier about having those rightly formed loyalties, I think this election season, I would encourage every Christian to read the book of Daniel, specifically chapter six. We see Daniel as someone who faithfully served a foreign government for decades. And he was, again, someone who loved government. He showed deference to it, respect to it.

He served in government, the Babylonian administration, then the Persian administration. He was a faithful foot soldier. But when the command came down that you can only pray to the king, Daniel didn't even think twice about it and said, I can't do that and was willing to suffer the consequences. And so again, that principle of rightly ordered loyalty, rightly ordered allegiance, I think Daniel gives us a wonderful roadmap for the 2024 election. Of course, that rightly ordered allegiance, it means that Christianity, our faith is first, but it's not only, right?

So talk about that. What if Christians are like, well, I'm just going to concentrate on winning people to Christ and being involved in my church. What is the risk for us as Christians disengaging from the political process?

Yeah, that's such an important question. Wayne Grudem in his book, Politics According to the Bible, offers a couple of different paradigms that Christians are often tempted to engage in or to operate in. One of those is do evangelism, not politics. And he doesn't encourage anyone to embrace that paradigm. But he says a lot of Christians are, well, I don't see any kingdom impact from engaging in politics.

Therefore, I'm just going to kind of go witness and that'll be what I do. I'll give you one quick example, the risk of Christians disengaged from the political process. Well, if we disengage, guess what? Someone is going to still hold the levers of power. And if Christians disengage, the people who are going to be leading us are going to be ones who have a worldview that is drastically different than a biblical worldview.

Let me give you one practical example, Tracy. Tim Walz, governor of Minnesota, who's now the vice presidential nominee for the Democratic Party. This is someone who won reelection a couple of years ago and wasted no time in passing an abortion through all nine months of pregnancy bill passed by one vote there in Minnesota.

Same governor passed a bill that allows the state to temporarily take custody of children whose parents will not allow them to get so-called gender-affirming care, you know, cross-sex hormones, puberty blockers, actual physical surgeries. And again, what's important to realize is that that worldview that allows for those policies is antithetical to biblical Christianity. And yet if Christians back out of the process, we're going to have more and more kinds of people with those worldviews holding the levers of power, making decisions that are going to affect your family, my family, and everyone in our community. We would all love to see more Christians involved in running for office, but that's a huge step.

So what are some safe ways, some good beginner ways for people who may have been opting out of the political process to wade in? Number one, we need to be praying, 1 Timothy 2, verses one through two, that's where Paul says that I urge supplications, prayers, intercessions, thanksgiving be made for all people, for kings and all who are in high positions that we may lead a peaceable and quiet life, godly and dignified in every way. My wife and I, almost every night we pray for both Kamala Harris, Joe Biden, Donald Trump. We need to be praying for our leaders, even those we disagree with. I think it's important to be informed.

We just don't want to go out and vote based on emotion or feelings or clever campaign commercial that we watch. We just want to be informed. So I think we should be looking at voting guides, passing those out. I think you should be aware of what's happening at the local level. You know, Tracy, our kids will spend 16,000 hours in a schoolroom, K through 12th grade. So we need to be really involved in our school board races and understanding what's happening there. And so, you know, it's interesting, we focus so much on the national level, but what happens at the local level can actually affect our lives in even more direct ways. And in the upcoming months before the November 5th election, Tracy, if you want to get involved with a campaign, phone banking, canvassing your neighborhood, passing out voter guides, those are all helpful ways to get involved.

All right. Well, we're just about out of time. David Claussen, what about some recommendations for our listeners? If they want to learn more about this, read some things that you all are doing and access the resources, the excellent resources that you guys provide, how would they go about doing that? Well, I've written a little booklet called Biblical Principles for Political Engagement. You can find it at frc.org slash worldview, and that's a free resource. It's, my goodness, it's maybe about five, 6,000 words. You can read it probably in 25 minutes, but it talks about really the conversation that we've been having on what is politics, what does the Bible say about politics, what are issues that we should care about, what do the party platforms say on these various topics of concern to Christians. It's in Spanish, English, and Korean, I believe, so frc.org forward slash worldview.

All right. David Claussen, Director of the Center for Biblical Worldview at Family Research Council, thank you so much for being with us today on Family Policy Matters. Thank you for listening to Family Policy Matters. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to the show and leave us a review. To learn more about NC Family and the work we do to promote and preserve faith and family in North Carolina, visit our website at ncfamily.org. That's ncfamily.org, and check us out on social media at NC Family Policy. Thanks and may God bless you and your family.