The Forever Initiative

This is family policy matter program is produced by the North Carolina family policy Council of profamily research and education organization dedicated to strengthening and preserving the family and here's John Rushton, president of the North Carolina family policy Council, thank you for joining us this week. Profamily policy matters. We are pleased to welcome Dr. Alan Hawkins, the program Dr. Hawkins is professor of family life at Brigham Young University and a member of the research advisory group of the Oklahoma healthy marriage initiative, 2003 to 2004. He was a visiting scholar with the office of planning, research and evaluation in the administration for children and families at the US Department of Health and Human Services, where he worked on the federal healthy marriage initiative. He also formally served as research director of the national healthy marriage resource Center and is chair of the Utah healthy marriage initiative. Dr. Hawkins is all of the new book the forever initiative of feasible public policy agenda to help couples form and sustain healthy marriages and relationships were to be talking with Dr. Hawkins about the book which calls for more public support for state-level marriage and relationship education programs. Dr. Hawkins, welcome to the program. Thank you and appreciate your interest well were delighted to have you with us tell us briefly about your book.

The forever initiative and why you wrote it is, is written to bring attention to some innovative and I think worthwhile public policy initiatives to try and strengthen the institution of marriage, and I think most people when when they hear something like that they would assume that were talking about same-sex marriage and and certainly that debate is is front and center in the media these days and is a very important debate, but I thought we needed to bring more attention to efforts to help individuals form and sustain healthy marriages and enduring relationships and to explore and to let people know what kinds of public policy initiatives are going on and what their prospects are so I wrote it to fill that void. Hoping that more people would understand that in addition to all the bait going around same-sex marriage, there are some other very important issues that we needed to be aware of: state-level marriage initiatives have been around for about a decade and lately they have been under quite a bit of scrutiny due to the results of some studies that show a limited impact you look at this research and have described the results as mixed with hopeful you explain what you mean by that, while there are some very important large-scale studies that were conducted by the federal government and a very rigorous autoloader called gold standard studies.

Estimating the impacts of educational programs to help couples form and sustain healthy marriages and healthy relationship and leave several programs targeted to two more at risk individuals and couples less educated and lower income couples who struggle to form those enduring marriages and published studies were lost. At the very beginning of the federal government's initiative to try and strengthen marriage and similar to what most social programs seem to yield the VFX were to some quite disappointing for that. In one study, trying to help unmarried couples form a healthier and more stable relationship. Overall, the VFX did not look like well didn't look like there was much going on, but there were some I think over linings in those darker clouds. Another study, each of educational programs trying to help married couples strengthen those foundations of their marriage showed more positive results. But again, quite small, consistent with what we usually find in these kinds of programs designed to help disadvantaged families. I think there is a kind of typical findings from this first generation of work.

I think were going to get better at what we do if we stick with it and I think there are some other models going on out there that can show us the way you decide Oklahoma marriage initiative is an example of a state-funded marriage education program that works well tell us a little bit about the Oklahoma marriage initiative. If you would, and why you believe it serves as a model for other state program. Oklahoma has been the most committed state in terms of addressing this issue of family instability directly by trying to help couples form and sustain healthy marriages since 1999 is been trying to build a statewide infrastructure to deliver high quality marriage and relationship education classes and programs to virtually every corner of their society.

There using the very best kinds of programs and of been able to reach hundreds of thousands of residents there in Oklahoma. The interesting thing is studies the federal studies that we were just talking about where we see positive impact on marriage and relationship education is in Oklahoma where they seem to have learned how to do it the best and have got the most significant levels of participation and so I do think Oklahoma is a model that we can look to and learn from you believe that it is the commitment that Oklahoma has expressed for marriage.

That has led to its success. There, in comparison to other states or other particular factors or approaches that they have taken in that state that you believe land to its success, but I do think there are factors that are driving the kind of success. I think we've seen in Oklahoma.

Courts are not a lot of states that have a statewide initiative really been trying to do some things my own home state here of Utah is one of them but are our funding situation is been more up and down and I don't think where as far along as Oklahoma. One of the reasons why the Oklahoma marriage initiative has found success in reaching people and then also where the research is showing you know some some nice success as well.

A top-level support from the governor's office and from the Sec. of human services in Oklahoma, there is been buy-in and interest that keen interest in this initiative and a commitment, a long-term commitment to making slow but steady progress under a recognition that the family instability is one of the driving factors of poverty in that state and in our nation until commitment to trying to make a difference and adding one more element to our fight against poverty and that's trying to help couples form those healthier relationships and and sustain those good marriages because we know that unwed childbearing and divorce are major reasons why children fall into poverty decided let's great to hear that there is that level of support in some states, we certainly would like to see you grow more and more states across the nation and also on the national level as well. Dr. Hawkins let's talk specifically about your proposal in the book for state-level marriage education programs were some of the major components you would like to see the states implement. I would like to see essentially a Federalist experiment 50 states experimenting with ways to educate individuals and couples about how to make these relationships work and how to establish strong and stable marriages but I think there are some some elements that would be, but I think we need to first of all we need to begin young more and more I think our youth and our young adults are quickly getting off course and on a trajectory that they're going to miss their target. By that I mean virtually all of our young people still have strong desires to have a good, healthy, strong, stable, lifelong marriage, but I think there there kind of getting on the wrong path of taking detours and not being able to find their way back and so I think we need to focus a lot of our attention on our youth and young adults and helping them stay on the right track. I know some people say well you want to teach them well. I think there are a lot of people who really don't have much to draw on to say what is a healthy relationship. What is a good long-lasting marriage for far too many children that seems to be outside their realm of knowledge. And so I do think education can help to fill that void. I also think that once a couple make that commitment that we need to be offering them a good marriage preparation education to build that foundation stronger so they can survive some of the early challenges that that most young couples to experience so again getting them young and then helping them build that foundation giving them multiple dosages if you will, not just a lifetime inoculation with one middle-class, but a series of opportunities through the young adult years to learn what it takes to make a relationship work.

Now that I'm not emphasizing it as much. But I'm I still think that there is a need for churches and other community institutions to help married couples to an old used the metaphor of entropy.

All systems decay over time. Unless you put energy into them and I think that's true of of marital systems as well.

And so we went in a little bit of help give couples more skills and more knowledge to help them keep those marriages strong, and then the last thing that I think is important to include in this in this menu of services you will is to help couples who are really struggling, particularly those at the crossroads of divorce work trying to make a decision amidst all the confusion and ambiguity exists about whether divorce is the right thing and I think there's plenty of research now that shows that the couples could use some help thinking through what the best path forward is whether divorce is necessary or whether there is a good chance that a marriage can be repaired and the family saved and so I'm I'm also calling for state efforts to reach out to that distinct population and to offer them a good educational resources to help them think through those issues more carefully and make a better and more informed decision about what the best path forward is for their family and the dimensions that I'm talking about. I think that if we can have a society in which those kinds of educational experiences are available at those key time points in the early lifecycle. I do think we can help more people achieve their aspirations of that Happy and healthy marriage and family alike, which is also about alternatively leaving the stigma of married couples seeking help because I've been at about a 22. Give her a hug marital relationship.

I know that my wife and I have a rocky path.

About five years into our marriage and we were fortunate enough to seek the help of counselor and who provided us some really good insights and frankly some helpful tools with respect to how we communicate with each other and that's one thing that were instrumental in getting our marriage back on track. This program very much focused on is improving our ability to communicate effectively problem solve effectively and that's why most people are going to these programs because they sense that man, this is harder than we thought know to be able to communicate effectively and so they wanted that they want to work out. They want some ideas and they want to get some better skills that usually do think they say that they value the most new perspectives and some new skills to be able to to talk and communicate with each other more effectively and and you're right, we need to destigmatize this issue. Marriages fall apart that because the nature of the universe unless you work out and and a big part of that work is learning to be able to communicate effectively with Dr. Hawkins we are nearly out of time for this week working on listeners go to get a copy of your book. The forever initiative.

This way I think it would probably just go online to Amazon.com and order is a hard copy or electronic copy.

I purposely kept the price as low as possible because I want everyone to be able to afford it. I think that profit is just way great wealth certainly occurred your listeners to avail themselves of this great book.

The forever initiative altered by Dr. Alan Hawkins and Dr. Hawkins. Thank you so much for being with us this week on family policy matters. You're welcome and thanks for your attention. Family policy matters. Information and analysis feature of the North Carolina family policy Council join us weekly discussion on policy issues affecting the family. If you have questions or comments. 91 907-0800 or visit our website and see family.1