Welcome to Family Policy Matters, a weekly podcast and radio show produced by the North Carolina Family Policy Council. Hi, I'm John Rust and president of NC Family, and each week on Family Policy Matters, we welcome experts and policy leaders to discuss topics that impact faith and family here in North Carolina. Our prayer is that this program will help encourage and equip you to be a voice of persuasion for family values in your community, state, and nation. To many of our listeners, our guest today needs no introduction, but for those who may not be as familiar, please allow me to provide a bit of brief background information. Chief Justice Paul Newby is a North Carolina native born in Asheboro, North Carolina.
He's an Eagle Scout and earned a bachelor's degree from Duke University and a JD or law degree from UNC Chapel Hill. He served as an assistant U.S. Attorney for the Eastern District of North Carolina for nearly 20 years. Paul is married to Macon Newby and they are the parents of four children. Justice Newby was first elected to the North Carolina Supreme Court in 2004, where he served two eight-year terms as Associate Justice.
He then ran for and was elected Chief Justice in 2020. As Chief Justice, Justice Newby leads and oversees the state's judicial branch. He's an expert on the North Carolina and U.S. Constitutions and actually travels nationally and internationally to speak with judges, lawyers, and others about the American legal system, which brings us to our conversation today. Chief Justice Paul Newby, welcome to Family Policy Matters.
It's a great privilege to have you with us. Thanks, General. It's such a treat to be with you.
Well, thank you. Justice Newby, I believe the last time we saw each other was actually at the Dulles airport. Lynette and I were returning from a trip from Italy, and you and Macon were returning from a trip to Ukraine. And I was fascinated and really intrigued to learn that you and Macon had traveled to Ukraine to meet with judges and others within the legal system there. Yes, we had, despite my reservations, when we had been asked back in November, I laughed and said, in case y'all hadn't noticed, you've got a war going on over there, but we'll pray about it, make it an idea.
And we just felt that this was something we needed to do to encourage the judges. We really met with the top judicial officials in Ukraine. There were 15 of them.
Okay, well, well, tell us a little bit about your trip. What was your experience like in the kind of a broad sense?
Well, from a broad sense, we went there, we had a great time, we were safe, survived one drone attack that actually hit a power plant about 20 miles from where we were, and then came back through Poland, met with some judges in Poland. But it was really a remarkable trip. The way that the resilience of the judges and the Ukrainian people, we've met a lot of folks with the Billy Graham Evangelistic Association and with Samaritans Perth that are there working daily to come alongside the Ukrainians as they struggle for their peace and safety. Hmm. Considering they're in the middle of a long ongoing war, obviously the judicial system needs to continue to work, but it's interesting that they would invite you in and want to learn about the American system of government and justice.
So what was their motivation to have you visit? I tried to get a real sense of where they are given that there are these daily attacks going after their power system, going after their water supplies, just the infrastructure. And I think what tells the story the best is we would pass through Ukrainian villages and see freshly dug graves in the Ukrainian flag indicating this was a young man or woman who is from our village who has recently died in the war.
So what does that make a person do? What it does, I think, is it engages the three questions I believe are burning deeply within every person. Who am I? Why am I here? And what happens when I die?
And as they ask these deeper questions, they realize that there's a couple of things. One is the public trust and confidence in the judiciary in Ukraine is 20%. And that's pretty much the way it is throughout Eastern Europe. Keeping in mind, these countries are newly freed, 1993, that is the date of their constitution. And a lot of these folks, these judges, inherited some of the old Soviet system.
So as they started to ask these questions, who am I, why am I here, I think these judges appreciated that maybe we need a broader perspective. And I think that's one of the reasons they asked Macon and me to come. Wow, that's interesting. You mentioned the Ukrainian Constitution. From your experience, maybe during this trip, maybe before you've had some interaction, certainly I think the plight of the Ukrainian people is something that's on the heart of a lot of us in America.
We were very distraught about the invasion and then the war that's been ongoing. And so I know a lot of Americans have been praying for peace in Ukraine and our hearts go out to the Ukrainian people. But looking at their form of government, their constitution, what did your experience and insight kind of lead you to understand about the Ukrainian form of government? of government versus what we have in the United States?
Well, you know, on the one hand, they've got a parliamentary system, but we have a representative republic, okay? But the pathway I want to look at is their judicial branch, okay? Their judiciary is rooted in what we call a civil law system, which is like the Napoleonic Code or the Justinian Code. It's very heavy on precise statutes, and they don't really have a common law tradition, which is prior cases having been decided that take the basic laws, if you will, really go back to the Ten Commandments, but it takes some basic laws and it says, okay, what does it mean not to kill? What does it mean not to steal?
Well, we have judicial decisions that help define what those are. Whereas in the civil law system, if it's not written in a book, then they can't, if it's a crime, prosecute it or whatever. Also, in a civil law system, it's all judges. It's not juries.
So when people look at their judicial system, it's not we, the people, making decisions as it is in the 10% of the world that have jury trials, that have the English common law system. It's the judges. And so these judges bear a lot more responsibility because they are deciding the cases. Yeah, interesting.
So from the perspective of a judge in Ukraine, as they look at our form of government and the differences that you've just described, how do you think they see and what did your interactions with them lead you to believe that they, how do they view our form of government and particularly our justice system? They view it very favorably. And this is my third interaction.
So about two and a half years ago, I had about five judges who actually visited the United States, came to the North Carolina Supreme Court. and I was able to talk with them about our judicial branch. Keeping in mind, Ukraine is huge, 145 million people, bigger than the state of Texas. It is a big place, and yet they really liked some of the foundational principles I talked about because their Constitution talks about that they are accountable to God. What about our Constitution?
Our Constitution says we, the people of the state of North Carolina, are grateful to Almighty God, the sovereign ruler of nations, for the preservation of the American Union and the existence of our civil, political, and religious liberties and acknowledge our dependence upon God for the continuation of those blessings to us and to our posterity. And they love the fact that who am I is answered in our state constitution. Who knew? We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all are created equal. We're not some cosmic accident.
We are created equal, endowed by our Creator, endowed by God with certain inalienable rights, life, liberty, pursuit of happiness, and we're entitled to the fruits of our own labor.
Now I know most of that came from the Declaration of Independence, but we inserted it in our Constitution. to safeguard those ideals. And the Ukrainian judges like the idea of thinking more broadly because of their life experiences right now.
So they're saying, who am I? I'm created by God. And I was able to answer the second question for them. Why am I here? You are ordained by God to be judges in this country.
They need you, but they need you to be judges of integrity and honor. And one day, you and I, as I talk to them, will stand before the holy, righteous God of the universe. And he has ordained that we would have the responsibility to judge for a little while. But that justice needs to reflect his justice. And we need to always ask ourselves, am I doing what is just and right and fair?
With every person that comes before, be rich, poor, powerful, not powerful, lady justice blindfolded, can't see who comes before. Are we treating everyone the way that justice requires they be treated? How did they receive that message? They greatly embraced it. Again, the head of all the judicial training in Ukraine was there and his COO, and they were so grateful for that because they realized they have a problem with public trust and confidence.
And they have to change that one judge at a time by being grounded in a faithful application of the law, integrity, integrity first. How did that experience kind of impact your view of our Constitution, of our form of government, and maybe making as well? Entering into a war-torn country with a conflict still very much underway, with people asking the deepest, most fundamental questions about life, what was the impact on you? One, a much deeper appreciation of the cost of freedom. Things we take for granted.
I mean, the power in our hotel flickered because the Russian drones didn't take out the power plant that was serving our hotel. That was it compared to these folks showing me pictures of their courthouses where everybody has been wearing mittens and gloves and they're dressed because they have no power, no heat, no drinkable water, looking for safe places for their children. You know, the Christian churches in Ukraine are asking for donations to build bomb shelters for their communities. We take it so for granted. And the fact that 250 years, I mean, 1776 for North Carolina, 1775, don't get you know our meg deck, May 20, 1775.
But to have our 250 years, and it's the 250th anniversary of our state constitution, 1776.
So, you know, it makes me so appreciate the wisdom and vision of our founders, the foundation that they put into place. And our state constitution says a frequent recurrence to fundamental principles. Is absolutely necessary to preserve the blessings of liberty. Man, you want to recur to fundamental principles? Go to a war-torn country where all these people are saying we just want to self-govern.
Well, you kind of preempted my next question. Appropriately so, is it seems so easy for us to take for granted the blessings that we enjoy in this country, the freedoms that we enjoy, the peace largely? I mean, a lot of people would say there's controversy and rancor and all of these things, but we have been fortunate enough to avoid, in many respects, at least a war within our borders. And how easy it is for us to take for granted the blessings that we enjoy for that. You also mentioned the 250th anniversary of the signing of the Declaration and the birth of our nation, which we celebrate this year, which is super exciting.
What would you say to the people, to our audience who are listening, about how might we adopt a renewed vigor and interest and appreciation for our country during this? Very special time as we celebrate, and also recognizing the fact that the hand of God's providence has not been removed from our nation, that we have been fortunate enough to avoid war within our borders and those types of things. What would you say to our listeners as a word of encouragement and hope for the future?
Well, first off, yes, we thank God for the foundations that we have. And what are those foundations? I encourage everybody, go back, read the Declaration of Independence, read some of our state constitution, think back, take opportunities to go to the different 250th celebrations.
So, as we hit these 250 anniversaries, I encourage everybody to think carefully about what we are celebrating. It's not, you know, the shot heard around the world on April the 19th, 1775, Lexington and Concord. What is it then? It's the ideal that our rights come from God, not the government, and that government only exists to protect these fundamental rights. Our North Carolina Constitution that we're going to celebrate 250th birthday, or its adoption, has two birthdays.
Why does it have two? December the 17th, we adopted our Declaration of Rights and went home for the day, came back on December the 18th, and adopted the Constitution. Why would we do that? Our rights are supreme. They come from God.
Government is there. The structure of government is simply to protect these fundamental rights and freedoms. And I urge people to really think about, yes, there are differences in America, but it really concerns me the level of vitriol in the conversation or the shouting. It's not even conversations. Come on.
As scriptures say, let's reason together. Let's talk about these things. But let's think about how we're all blessed to have the freedoms that we have.
Well, Chief Justice Paul Newby, I couldn't think of a better way to conclude our conversation. Thank you for your willingness to join us today, for sharing about your experiences in traveling to Ukraine, for your willingness and faithfulness to interact with judicial leaders and governmental leaders across the country and across the world. We pray for you and for all of your efforts. We thank you for your sacrificial and faithful service to the people of North Carolina, to the families of North Carolina, to our state, and to our nation. And we're just so grateful for you.
So, thank you for joining us for Family Policy Matters, and we look forward to seeing you again soon. Thank you for listening to Family Policy Matters. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to the show and leave us a review. To learn more about NC Family and the work we do to promote and preserve faith and family in North Carolina, visit our website at ncfamily.org. That's ncfamily.org.
And check us out on social media at NC Family Policy. Thanks and may God bless you and your family.
