Time for Camp!

Many years ago, John and Susan Yates decided to invite all of their grandkids to their house for a cousin's camp.

Give mom and dad the week off. Susan says it's one of the best decisions they ever made as a couple. You know, I don't think you ever really know your legacy, but I think the cousins would not have the relationships that they do. We've had the opportunity to share Christ just very naturally and specifically with the kids. We've had the opportunity to see the older kids build into the younger kids. And also to give our adult children a little breath of fresh air, not having their kids for those few days. So, you know, I wouldn't presume to know what the legacy is.

I don't know. But for us, this made sense. This is Family Life Today. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson. I'm Bob Lapine. You can find us online at familylifetoday.com.

Yes, it's a lot of work. But as we'll hear from Susan Yates today, hosting a cousin's camp is a great investment. Stay with us. And welcome to Family Life Today.

Thanks for joining us. So I have to confess, a little ulterior motive here. I like it when Bob confesses.

It's always fun when Bob confesses. I thought maybe if we invited our friend Susan Yates here to talk about cousin's camp, we could score an invitation to come to cousin's camp. Wouldn't that be awesome?

You think it's a close deal? I would like to come, yes. No parents allowed. Really? Can we send our kids? Or our grandkids?

You can start one. Susan Yates is here joining us on Family Life Today. And we were just talking about the number of times you've been here. Welcome back. So good to have you here.

It's great to be back. Thanks. Susan is a writer, a speaker. She and her husband, everybody knows him as John, except she calls him Johnny, so I kind of feel like I should call him Johnny, too.

They live in suburban Washington, D.C., where for many years he was the senior pastor, the rector at the Falls Church in Virginia. Well, we started Cousin Camp almost 12 years ago with five grandchildren from three different families. We have five kids, and they're all married, and they are all scattered. And one of the things we've wanted is for our grandchildren to know one another and to have significant time together. So we thought one of the ways that we could do this was to bring them together for three days and two nights in the summer and just run a camp.

Also, we simply wanted to be able to have the children without their parents and to be able to have some sort of an input into their lives. So how old were your grandkids at this point when you had your first Cousin's Camp? Our first Cousin's Camp, I think we had a seven-year-old, two five-year-olds, and a four-year-old, and maybe an eight-year-old. Okay, this just sounds exhausting to me, what you just described.

It is. In all honesty, it's the most exhausting four days of our life every year. But you invited eight-year-old, seven-year-old, four-year-old, five-year-old. Come to our house and spend the week with us. No, it's not a week.

The key is to start small. The first year we did it, it was two nights and three days. And then after that, we changed it to three nights and four days. So it's always been, since the first year, three nights and four days.

But your family's grown too, right? It isn't just a few now. Right. No, it's 21 now. That's a lot.

Which is kind of crazy. Susan, take us back. And what has made you so passionate about this? You don't write a book unless you're passionate about something. And I know that you've been passionate about your kids, so how did you decide to do this?

Well, I never thought I would write a book about it. You know, that wasn't the intent when we began to do it. The intentional factor was bringing our grandchildren together in order that we might have time alone with them without Mom and Dad, and in order to build their relationships with one another. Because as grandparents, we've just got a great opportunity to pour into that generation. And so often grandparents can get away with saying things and doing things that parents can't. You know, Mom says something, and they'll get the roll of the eye from the child. But if Grandma says it, the child is at least usually respectful. So we can get away with a lot that Mom and Dad can't, and that's a real advantage. How did your kids feel about not being invited?

Oh, they were thrilled. Quite honestly, they are thrilled because we have, from the beginning, a wise friend of mine who was 10 years ahead of me, sort of my camp mentor, suggested don't let them come until they're four. Because when you have four-year-olds, you're not dealing with the two-year-old and three-year-old temper tantrums. You're not dealing with kids being up at night. Mostly they sleep through the night.

You're not dealing with a lot of the issues that you're dealing with. They're potty trained. They're potty trained, hopefully, yeah. So this is not right for everybody. We have a lot of friends who do it differently, but for us, this made sense. So to come to Cousin Camp, you have to wait until you're four. So our adult children are thrilled when their last child reaches four, and they can drop their kids off at camp and leave, and they go on honeymoon.

So we feel like it benefits our adult kids giving them time alone without their children while we're basically taking care of the kids. Back at the beginning of this, were you thinking this is going to be all fun and games with the kids, or did you have—how did you have the three days, two nights apportioned? Well, we've always had a schedule. It takes a lot of planning.

We have a morning Bible study time. We have activities. We make out months ahead a detailed schedule. Now, the schedule can be thrown out at any moment because you have to be flexible, and when something doesn't work or you need to change gears, you change gears.

And every year it's a little bit different, but the basic schedule stays the same with different elements put in depending on what worked last year and what didn't, and what are the age of the kids this year coming as opposed to last year. Because needs in families and needs in life change year to year. We're not static. We're always growing and changing.

So you have to adapt your plans to the changes. If you started with an eight-year-old and you're 12 years in now, you've got a 19-, 20-year-old today. Yeah, 20-year-old. Is that child still coming to Cousins Camp? Oh, she loves it.

Really? Yes, and as a matter of fact, she wrote a blog, and I printed it in the book, her reflections in the first chapter on being the eldest at Cousins Camp and the exhaustion she experienced, but also the fun and the hope that she wouldn't disappear from these cousins' lives as she went off to college, but that she would remain a part of it. Now, she's unusual, so I don't know if it had been a boy, if he would have responded that way, but the next one in line is a boy, and I think one of the things that we've been very intentional in doing throughout the 11 years is turning over the leadership of Camp to the older cousins. Because the older kids speak volumes into the little people, and that is just a tremendous influence, so we've intentionally turned each year more and more of the activities, the leadership, the Bible studies, the sharing time over to the bigger cousins. So give me a sample day.

Okay. What does a day at Cousins Camp look like? The very first year, this is hysterical, but we have a seven o'clock rule, and this is at our first camp. We have those digital clocks that you can put in each room, those battery clocks, and we had to actually write out the number seven with the colon for the little ones that couldn't read it. And we said, you can't come out of your room until seven, because we didn't want the kids up at five, which would have happened. And so they quickly learned, we meant it, and if they got up too early, we sent them back, and they couldn't come out until seven.

So you're up, you have breakfast, you have a little quiet time Bible study. Each year at camp, the newbies, which is what we call the new ones for their first year at camp, when they're four, they get a journal, just a journal that I have glued a picture of the child on that I have developed, just a picture. And we make a big presentation over presenting the journals, and these journals live at our place.

They don't go home because they just get lost. They live at our place, and so year to year, the kids add to the journals as they come back. And so they pull the journals out for Bible study, and Bible study's short, you know, it's 30 minutes, 35 minutes. We have a theme for the camp or a special verse. John, my husband, leads the Bible study usually. The first thing we do is share testimonies, and we take the kids through the gospel, and if they haven't given their life to Christ, we give them an opportunity. It's not pushy at all, but it's just natural.

Again, I think the naturalness flows from being the grandparent and not the parent and the positive peer pressure in the room. So, for example, I remember when Alexander was young. He came as a newbie, one of my grandsons. He was four, and we went through the gospel, and we said, Alexander, would you like to ask Christ into your life? And he said, I think so.

And we don't push them if they don't want to. They can certainly wait, but who would you like to do it with? And the bigger cousins all raised their hand, me, me, because they wanted to be a part of this. But he looked at my husband, and he said, I want to do it with Poppy.

And so, where would you like to do it? I want to go do it in the hammock, because that's, you know, letting him choose. So, off they went to the hammock, where he prayed the prayer of commitment.

And then when they came back in, everybody cheered and clapped. So, it makes it a really special moment, and then it's written down in his journal. So, each year, even though now the kids are all bigger, we spend our first morning just saying, okay, who wants to share their testimony about the time they asked Christ into their life?

Because what that does is it puts a marker, and they remember, and they look back at their journal and their scrawly handwritings when they were little. But it's a step, and we know that there'll be many times of recommitment. They may walk away. They will have questions and doubts, but at least it's a marker. So, do you live in like a mansion where- No, no, no, no, no.

Absolutely not. No, we have a little farm out in the country. That's where we have camp. We also have neighbors who share their space with us when the whole family comes in, which is at the end of camp. But basically, the kids sleep all over. We usually have three on the floor in our bedroom. We have two in the closet. Camp is never about really getting great sleep. It's about togetherness.

You know, sleeping bags, couches, floors. It just works. And you and John have always had this goal that your kids would always love the Lord and love each other. And you're saying that's true for your grandkids. Is that something that just comes naturally, or do you and John kind of help that along? It's based on Matthew 22, the great commandments, you know, that we love the Lord our God with all our heart, mind, and soul, and our neighbor as ourself. And we feel like your first neighbor is your spouse, obviously, if you're married, but then it's your family. And so that's always been the prayer for our kids, that they would grow up loving Jesus, marrying in the Lord, and that their kids, our grandchildren, would as well, and that they'd love and support one another.

So we have a very simple goal, and that is to just promote that they would love the Lord and grow in Him, and that they'd love and take care of each other. So I'm up to lunchtime right now. Oh, yeah.

We forgot. I mean, I'm the guy that's—I'm a seven-year-old, and I'm in your house, and I'm at camp, so I'm excited to know what else happens. Well, wait, what's for lunch? What's for lunch? Oh, and who's cooking it?

Yeah, okay. Food is not a big deal. I mean, we are simple—paper plates, paper napkins, mac and cheese, sandwiches, hamburgers, hot dogs, chicken nuggets.

Camp is not about food, so you release that pressure right off the bat. After Bible study, we always have an activity. It may be a giant hide-and-seek game. There's always an event, a scavenger hunt, or an obstacle course. We have a time where we go berry picking at a nearby orchard or swimming in our pond.

We have a craft session. We do have a rest hour, because John and I would die if we didn't. Where the kids also need to learn how to entertain themselves, not that they're entertained all the time. So that's kind of the flow of the day, or these blocks of time, which what we do in them changes according to ages of the kids, and then supper, and then activities after dinner. And the kids throughout the day, do you have discipline issues? Do you have whiny, screamy, tantrum-throwing kids? Oh yeah.

It's not normal if you don't. They're kids. I remember one summer, we have three granddaughters who are approximately the same age, and two ganged up on the third and said, you can't play with us. And they were basically just being mean girls. And I had to take them aside and say, this is not acceptable, and this is why. And I just simply explained it to them and say, you do need to play together. I remember on another occasion, one of the grandsons was just really being ugly to another cousin. And he's very strong willed, and I couldn't handle him. And so I said, honey, you need to handle this one. So a lot goes into how we work together as a team, and my husband was going to be better at handling that grandson than I was. So there's a lot that goes into this, and I talk about this in the book, about how you work together in your marriage, given your specific gift sets, so that you are completing one another, and backing one another up, and not really competing with each other. But yes, you're going to have arguments, and one of the things that I've learned is you have to be flexible with your schedule.

Where are we flexible, and where do we hold fast? So this is the guiding principle on that. We're flexible when we need to change course because of events, but we hold fast when it's a character issue.

These two incidences with the grandson and the two mean girls were character issues, and so we have to be firm on that. John, I guess, takes the week off from work, or the four days off, whatever it is. He's full hands on deck with this. He's full hands on deck, but here again, it's sort of, what is your situation professionally and in your marriage? Because all of the years we've been doing this, my husband's been the senior pastor of a large church, and he's exhausted and doesn't have the time, and I'm more of the planner, so I've done more of the planning. But then I set it up so that he's up front leading the stuff more than I am, but we do it together. But yes, he has to take time off, and boy, after it's over, we are dead. Parents come in at the end, right?

Right. The way we've worked it is we go right from cousin camp into family camp, where all our kids and the little ones that are not yet four come in for three more days. And that schedule is much more laid back, but yes, just because of logistically living in different states, once we get them there, we need to keep them there.

So that's what's worked for us. Have there been years when the soccer team or the work schedule for the kids, something has kept some of the cousins from being able to come to cousins camp? No, one year we had, one of our families was on a missions trip in Africa, and so they couldn't come. And then one of my daughters, who's a twin, has quadruplets, and so they didn't come for a year because it was just too crazy. So we've had two years that we haven't had everybody. But everybody carves out this week and makes it a priority. It's kind of amazing, actually. We put it on the calendar way ahead, and what's been tricky is the school system's getting out at different times.

So it's immediately after the last school system gets out, because some of the schools are out in May and some of the schools are out in June, so we have to wait. What would the Yates family be without it? Can you picture your legacy or how you would be relating to your grandkids if you didn't have cousin camp? Wow, you know, I don't think you ever really know your legacy. I think the cousins would not have the relationships that they do.

That would be a big thing. We've had the opportunity to share Christ just very naturally and specifically with the kids. We've had the opportunity to see the older kids build into the younger kids, and also to give our adult children a little breath of fresh air, not having their kids for those few days. So, you know, I wouldn't presume to know what the legacy is.

I don't know. And let me just say this, I think as parents and grandparents, we live with so much guilt and so much I ought to have or I shouldn't have. And if we're really honest, every one of us feels like we've ruined our children over and over again, or we've ruined our grandchildren over and over again. And I think what we have to realize is our ability to ruin our children is not nearly as great as God's power to redeem them. And that's just been a really comforting thought to me, because I'm going to mess up.

I'm going to mess up. And one of the things we stress in our family is the importance of forgiveness. I think it's probably the single most important ingredient in the family. You continue to have interaction with the kids all year long. I'm sure your few days with them in the summer is catalytic for you to be able to continue that communication throughout the year with them. It is.

It is. But Bob, in all honesty, I am not a great grandmother in terms of communicating. There are so many other grandparents that do it so much better than I do.

I'm not techie, but I have friends who are grandparents who Skype regularly with their grandchildren. Well, you have 21. Yeah. That's not easy. That's not easy. So I don't do any of that.

It all depends on your situation. And that's why Cousin Camp has been pivotal for us, because I don't feel like I'm as good as a lot of my friends with the day-in and day-out communication during the year. Yeah. I've got to tell you, hearing you talk about Cousin Camp, honestly, I'm like, I am such a bad grandfather. Oh, my goodness.

We haven't done anything. Although, we've done a pretty good job of Skyping and that kind of thing, but it's inspiring to think we can do this. I mean, that's one of the great things when I was reading about what you do.

It's like, this is doable. And I really think that's why I ask you a question. It's like, what would the Wilson family be without it? It's sort of where we are now.

What could it look like if we added this? Yeah. You know, with the cousins knowing each other. And part of it's probably my broken family didn't know my dad well, didn't know my dad's parents, didn't know my brothers, know none of my cousins.

Never did we ever do this. So, for somebody like me, it's like, oh, this is a new way to think about grandparenting. Not only did I want to change the legacy as a dad, but now as a grandparent, I can impact that through all of my kids' kids and cousins. Wow. I think the thing that inspired me, too, Susan, is, one, as a grandmother, I want to know my grandkids. But it's really hard to do that when they don't live in the same state.

It is. And so, you come up with a different way to plan, and I am so inspired by this because it's in your book where you have the names of each child, their needs, the goals, and the program. Talk about that. How did you come up with that, and is this important to pre-plan what you're going to be doing and why with each child? In all honesty, we didn't come up with this ourselves. This is a philosophical approach really to ministry and family life that we learned from an old pastor friend and his wife who taught us.

And basically, I see this in our life. So often, our goal is to have an event that's successful, and then it's done, and we sort of are grateful. But the reality is to just plan an event for the sake of an event is missing the mark. We need to think, okay, what do we want to have happen after the event or as a result of the event? So, you change how you approach an event or ministry or really anything in life, and you begin to ask the questions, okay, who do we want to come to the event, which in this case is our grandchildren or other types of family reunions, which I also talk about in the book. We write down the names of the people coming and what are their needs. What are their needs in five areas of growth?

What are their needs spiritually, mentally, physically, emotionally, and socially? That's just a grid we think through, like a four-year-old, okay? Mac is coming as a newbie this year. He's four. He doesn't know all of his cousins. Emotionally, he needs to feel safe. He needs to feel like he can get to know them. Physically, he's going to probably need to take a nap because he's going to get worn out.

Spiritually, has he really given his life to Christ? So, we think through this grid for each of the kids each year, and then we plan the program based on the needs and goals rather than just planning a program that people are going to have fun, but it's not going to have any lasting impact. And I'm guessing from what you said, you do a lot of that planning yourself. Yeah, well, we just sit with the list of the kids. John and I sit with the list of the kids several months out and say, okay, what do we notice about each of these kids? And sometimes we don't know, Dave, and so we have to get input from the parents.

And we always do this before camp. Okay, tell us about your child this year. What are his gifts? Because there's a proverb that says, know well the condition of your flocks. And I take that as a mandate to study my kids and to study my grandkids so that I will know their condition.

So, we go to the parents and we say, okay, give us a cheat sheet because we don't see you that often. Tell us what one of Mimi's, what's her passion? Is she into art? Is she a reader? Is she into sports?

What are her gifts that you see and how can we fan the flame in those gifts? Or what are your concerns? Is there a child who might be anxious at camp?

We need to know that up front. How can we comfort this child? So, when the kids are little, for example, just a physical goal, we have them sleep with siblings. The newbies sleep with siblings on the floor altogether because they'll be comfortable emotionally with their siblings since they don't know all of their cousins. You know, then as they get bigger, we match them up with cousins of the same age because we want to forge that relationship. Somebody who's listening to this conversation just says, I'm completely overwhelmed even hearing you talk about this. What's your counsel to them?

My counsel is start really small. Like even a day? A day. Really?

Yeah, a day is great. This book is not about copying the Yeatses because that's just wrong for any of us to copy each other because we're all different. And you have to guard against falling into the comparison trap because we're all different. So, you start small and you start short.

It's much easier to add later than it is to take away. So, what you want the kids to leave with is a desire to do this again. So, you may have a 24-hour camp or you may, as I talk about in the book, I have a friend who they have six grandchildren and they decided to do, who all live in the same town. But often when you live in the same town, you don't really see each other because everybody's lives are so different. They had a 24-hour one with just their three girls, the three little girl cousins.

And then the next summer, they were going to do it with three little boy cousins. So, you just have to assess your needs, your situation, and you can do this anywhere. We happen to have a little tiny farm, but people do it in the cities.

You just take advantage of where you're living. It's just to pray, to do something, to ask the Lord, Lord, what could it look like for our family, where we live, what we have going on, for God to just kind of take it and mold it to who you are? Well, the great thing is the book gives you a template, a place to start and to say, okay, we could do that. Okay, this doesn't work, but we could try this.

And it gives you a starting point, and that at least helps you not have to come up with a plan out of thin air. We've got the manual for you. Go to our website, familylifetoday.com. Get a copy of Susan Yates' book, Cousin Camp, a grandparent's guide to creating fun, faith, and memories that last. You can order the book from us online at familylifetoday.com, or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY to order. Again, the title of the book is Cousin Camp by Susan Yates. Order online at familylifetoday.com or call 1-800-358-6329.

That's 1-800-F as in family, L as in life, and then the word today. By the way, Susan has put together a downloadable PDF. It's called Camp at Home, 100 Practical Ideas for Families, and that's available for free online.

Go to familylifetoday.com, and the information is available right there. While you're on our website, there's something we'd like to ask you to do. We've had some friends of the ministry who have approached us.

Actually, this happened back before the whole COVID-19 outbreak occurred. They agreed that during the month of May, they would match every donation we receive here at Family Life dollar for dollar up to a total of $345,000. We did not know then just how needed those funds would wind up being, but they're critical for us right now. So we're asking Family Life Today listeners if you can help with a special one-time gift knowing that your donation will be matched dollar for dollar, or if you can join the Family Life Legacy Partner team and become a monthly donor supporting this ministry each month. When you do, any donation you make as a legacy partner over the next 12 months is going to be matched dollar for dollar. And by becoming a monthly donor, you will also receive a gift card that will enable you and your spouse to attend an upcoming weekend to remember marriage getaway. We plan to kick those off again in the fall, Lord willing, so you'll be able to come out and enjoy a weekend getaway this fall or next spring, or pass the card along to someone you know who would benefit from a weekend getaway.

That's when you become a monthly legacy partner. You can make a donation online at FamilyLifeToday.com, or you can call 1-800-FL-TODAY. Again, any donation you make is going to be matched dollar for dollar. And we'll say thank you by sending you a copy of Barbara Rainey's new book, My Heart Ever His, a wonderful collection of meaningful prayers that you can incorporate into your time with the Lord.

It'll help you put words to maybe some of what you're feeling, the anxiety or the fear or the stress or whatever you're going through. Barbara's book will be a great help, and it's our gift to you when you help us take advantage of this matching gift challenge here during the month of May. So we hope to hear from you.

Thanks in advance for whatever you're able to do in support of the work of Family Life Today. Now, tomorrow we're going to talk more about the dos and don'ts, the time-tested wisdom that Susan Yates has learned over the years about how to do a cousin camp. She'll join us again.

I hope you can join us as well. I want to thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Anne Wilson, I'm Bob Lapine. We'll see you back tomorrow for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a production of Family Life of Little Rock, Arkansas. A crew ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.