Turning Toward Home

As the lead singer for the group Sanctus Real for many years, Matt Hammett's job had him traveling more days than he was home. When Matt and Sarah's son Bowen was born with heart problems, health issues, the couple had to take a sober look at the reality of their relationship and whether their marriage could survive all they were experiencing. You know, we possess these attributes that lead to divorce.

My husband travels. We have a sick child. I mean, we have all of these odds stacked against us. So yeah, there's been moments where it's like toxic. And yeah, sure, have we threatened it to each other once in a while?

Yeah, we have. This is Family Life Today. Our hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson.

I'm Bob Lapine. You can find us online at familylifetoday.com. Matt and Sarah Hammett join us today to talk about the things they've learned in almost two decades of marriage, things to do and not do, things to say and not to say in order to make your marriage a priority. Stay with us. And welcome to Family Life Today.

Thanks for joining us. I have a friend who is in a high-profile job. He is somebody who is well-known and has a lot of fans. We were at dinner and he said, here's the thing. He said, my wife is just not impressed by what I do. All these other people are like, oh, this is amazing. And my wife is like, yeah, you know, it's good. It's all right.

I mean, what you do? Yeah. And he goes, I don't get why other people are wild. She's not impressed with me. Yeah.

I mean, your husband's a high-profile guy and a lot of people admire him and what he does. Have you had some of that same? I sure have had some of that.

It's interesting. I don't think she's ever been impressed. I've been so impressed. You were before we got married. No, I'm so impressed. But the thing that impresses me the most is the way he loves our kids, the way he spends time with them and plays with them or reads the Bible with them and when he talks to me. Those are the things.

She skipped right over the unimpressive part. I mean, we got to introduce our guest, but I'll tell you something real quick. One night after I preached all morning, was on the lion's sideline all day, came home exhausted, a crawling bed. She says to me at 1130 at night, as I'm closing my eyes. I'll say it.

Go ahead. Tell them what you said. I said, you know, I watched you this morning at church, leading this entire congregation, and when you pray, oh, you move us. Like, we want to be with you in this. You're just so inspiring. And then I said— And then she adds this.

I wish that guy would live here. Actually, word for word, she said, I wish the guy who led our church would live in this house. And you know what I said to her?

Bob, this is what made me think of it. I said, you know, I didn't respond like a great leader. I just responded like, are you kidding me? People think I'm good. You think I'm nothing. There's so many women that would love to be married to me. That's what I said.

Wow. You know, I was just so hurt by that. And yet the next day, God said, I was speaking to you through your wife. And so I had to step up and lead her home. And so we've got a high-profile rock star in the studio, and it's not Bob Lapine from Ambrosia that we talked about before.

It's Matt Hammett from Sanctus Reel. And your wife Sarah is with us. You've got four kids, and now you're in Nashville. You have this legendary career, 20 years with Sanctus Reel, double awards, Grammy nominations, albums, thousands in stadiums listening to you sing. Including an anthem about what a husband is supposed to be to his wife, a song called Lead Me that is now the book you've written. Matt and Sarah speak at Weekend to Remember Getaways with us.

And I'll add this. I remember where I was the first time I heard this song. Heard Lead Me? Really?

Yes. Striving on I-59 in Michigan, I was going to our church at Kensington. And I mean, I was totally captivated by the song. Went home, I told Dave, you have to listen to this song because this is kind of our story.

Which is so interesting because we didn't even know you guys at the time. But I think that has resonated with so many people. This is what we want.

This is what we long for in our families. So Sarah, take us back to that moment because obviously that song became an anthem. But it's your story.

It's more than lyrics. It is you were feeling left alone because the rock star is on the road and you speak these words. Tell us a little bit of that story because that's really where we are today. Yeah.

I remember he was at the dining room table. We were having our, I don't know, 10,000th conversation about the subject. And I just was like, hey, you come home and you're grumpy and you act like you don't have anything to give. But you've literally left me home alone to do it all myself. I feel really alone. I literally feel like we're living our life and you're living your life. That doesn't feel like a family.

You said you're here, but you're not here. Yeah. I don't necessarily feel like it was proximity. I feel like it was the heart.

Does that make sense? I do feel, even though I would say most Christian musicians' families, I'm going to stretch far here and I'm going to say most of us families feel lonely. And we sacrifice that for the ministry. So I think it was more the condition of our hearts in that. So to me, it was if you came home and you were excited to be here and you weren't complaining and you were helpful and you were happy, then maybe this could work. But it felt very much like it was the opposite every time we came home. As you guys described these long tours, Matt's gone, you're there fending for yourself. I was thinking about people in the military. Totally. Guys who are deployed who try reentry.

They come in now. They don't know what their place in the home is. This is an occupational hazard that is true for not just musicians or pro athletes, as you mentioned, Dave, but it's true for a number of professionals who have got this, I'm traveling a lot and then I try to come back home and make life work. I was curious, because you alluded to this, both of you. You entertained thoughts that maybe this marriage was not going to make it? Yeah, I would say that we have toxic conflict. So outside of conflict, we have a great time.

We laugh, we have fun, we love each other, but when it comes to anything that strikes up conflict, it becomes quickly toxic. And so someone once mentioned, what is it, the four Cs. I forget exactly what they are, but they're like contempt and we possess all of them and with a 98% divorce rate or something like that. And so we have that on top of I was there reading that to me. You see this guy here says if you have the four Cs, you're 98% likely to get divorced. Well, that's encouraging. We possess these attributes that lead to divorce.

My husband travels, we have a sick child, 85% will divorce when you have a sick child. I mean, we have all of these odds stacked against us. So yeah, there's been moments where it's like I'm done. Well, what do you mean by that? There's those words that speak and then you can go back and say, well, I was just saying I'm done with this, right?

But it's those little kind of threats that sneak in and it's the look, right? It's that exchange where you're like, you're dancing that line of admitting out loud, do I want to walk away? And yeah, sure. Have we threatened it to each other once in a while?

Yeah, we have. But for you guys, here you are, Matt, writing songs about Jesus and drawing closer to him. You guys both love Jesus. What was going on with your relationship with God in the midst of all that? Yeah, I think for me, it's interesting because I've always had a prayerful relationship with the Lord on a daily basis.

I've always been in the Word on my own time. I've always leaned into the Lord and always, I think almost sometimes to the point where it's like, I'm trying to think of how to even describe that person that I could be where I'm leaning into the Lord and I'm almost leaning on that relationship to take care of everything. So it's like, I'm a Christian. I love the Lord. My heart is bent towards him in prayer on a regular basis, so that makes me good.

And it does in a way. We inherit God's righteousness. We are sinners who God makes saints. We know who we are in Christ, yes. But then what beyond that, how do we live our lives in the reality of who we really are to the people around us? And that was a really big obstacle for me to not just lean on like, hey, well, my parents always stayed married and, you know, we always went to church and we go to church and we're just going to stay married and not look at the, you look at the big picture, like just kind of shove all those little micro problems under the rug.

And that's really, I think, where that threat came in for us. Whereas I didn't want to deal with all the little stuff. I just kind of wanted to just lean on the big picture fact that we're a Christian couple.

Everything's fine. I love the Lord. You love the Lord. And, you know, it's like, we're just going to stay married because that's what people in our family do.

And we just kind of, I just could lean there and try to ignore the rest. I mean, it sounds like you're living in fairy tale land denial. Honey, Dave, this is you. You guys are twins. I mean, I don't want to say it out loud.

So my wife does. But I thought there were moments, I was going to ask you, Matt, if you ever felt like you faked it, because there were moments where when we were really struggling and the church was starting and things were happening in my ministry, that I would be, you talk about contempt and criticism and defensiveness. And these are all from John Gottman's Four Horsemen.

They're all from that. And I'd be literally getting in our car and would be walking out into the driveway with a child or two in our arms going, where are you going? And I'd be yelling at her.

I'd get in the car pounding the dashboard, so mad. And 15 minutes later, I'm walking in an elders meeting, leading spiritually. And I'm like, there's the dichotomy of what I'm doing.

And I'm mad. I felt the same thing. It's like, my walk with God is solid.

I'm leaning on that foundation. And it's just getting in the way. But I have to wonder in the midst of that, I'm thinking of the end of a Sanctus Real concert.

You had a conversation with Sarah earlier in the day where she's just mad at you because you're not there. And it's the end of a Sanctus Real concert. And there are these cute girls who are coming up and going, your music is so inspiring. It's changed my life.

And they're throwing their Bibles up on stage. You're amazing. You know, it's interesting. For whatever reason, it was like, I didn't really feel that temptation much.

But the temptation I definitely did feel was on an emotional level, whoever it was after a concert just said, oh, wow. It's the reward of I get rewarded for my work because everybody says, wow, what a great job. What a great job. And you just start to believe this kind of overarching truth. And if you can hold on to the overarching truth, I do a great job. I'm serving the Lord. I love God. I am a good husband. I am a good father because that's what I want to be. Sometimes you and part of it, too, is we have a job to do.

And I think a lot of times for men, you talk about military men who are gone, traveling husbands, pro athletes, and I'm sure women who travel, some of them do the same thing. You look at it and you go, man, we've got a job to do. And if I let myself get down in the mud and caught up in all this stuff, can I continue to lead and do my job? It's almost like a protection element. But at the end of the day, and Sarah reminds me of this, and it's good that she does, who are you protecting? Are you protecting what's important or are you just protecting yourself?

At the end of the day, when protecting yourself is partially what you've built your career on, you've got to look at how you're really living your career. And at some point, obviously, Sarah, you've been probably saying that to Matt, like you said, thousands of times. So at some point, Matt, it gets through.

It's like my family and my home is actually more important than the tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands. What was it that hit you? For me, it was that moment of realizing that my good intentions could no longer define me. And it was a wake-up call the day that I wrote, lead me, actually, at that conversation at the dining room table that Sarah poured her heart out to me. She actually said those words to me, I need you to lead me. I remember looking over at a picture. This is what really broke my heart.

Sarah's sitting across from me. Her face is puffy and red and she's been crying. You know that feeling when you can see somebody's heart just weighing on their face? And it's ugly.

And I don't say ugly as terms like beauty ugly, but it's an ugly thing to have to see. It looks like someone who's been through war, right? And you can see it in their eyes.

They're just exhausted. And I remember I looked from her face at that table over to her face in our wedding photo. And I saw this joyful woman whose countenance was literally glowing with hope and excitement for her future. And then I turn back and I see her again. And I'm like, wow, that is somehow my fault. And I might not understand even right now everything I've done. I know I'm oblivious to some of the reasons why.

I know I'm too selfish to see some of the reasons why. But am I going to be a man? And am I going to step up? And am I going to figure it out? Am I going to find out what my role is in this exchange that's happened over the last seven years to get my wife to a place where she's that far away from that wedding photo? And am I going to take responsibility? And I think that day I really chose to be a man and take responsibility for at least one step at a time.

I knew I wouldn't get it perfect, but I knew that I had to make whatever hard decisions I had to make to put into action the intentions that I had my whole life. Wow. That was the visual, I think, so many of us men. I can't speak for what a wife or mom feels, but I feel like I've done the same thing to my wife. And hearing you say that, you want to say, God, I need to correct this.

I need to be a man and step up, so thank you for doing it. I think we got to hear the song. Yeah. We do have guitars, just happen to have one here in the studio. Do you mind pulling it up?

Bob even let me borrow a pick. All right. It's funny, I would go into an interview before the book expecting to play because we're talking about music, and I'm so prepared now I show up for a book interview and I'm like, oh, yeah, I didn't bring a guitar. It's about the song.

What am I thinking? That's pretty good. That's good enough.

Okay, so we haven't gotten to this part in the story officially, but we're going to get there soon. Ultimately, everybody knows I stepped away from Sanctus Real in 2016. And one of the first things I did that next year was I put on a lead me men's conference to talk, to share some of the lessons I've been learning, to walk with some other guys who are making hard decisions to lead their families. And I asked Dave to be one of my speakers at my very first conference, and he graciously said yes. And he came, and not only did he bring the house down with his message, but he also brought the house down when he sang a very special rendition of lead me at a men's conference and included certain things that I can't really- We can't say on the radio. I can't say on the radio, but let's just say it was very special, Dave.

Very special. Thanks for defiling my song. All right, this is lead me. I look around and see my wonderful life almost perfect from the outside in picture frames I see my beautiful wife always smiling but on the inside I can hear her saying, lead me with strong hands or stand up when I can't. Don't leave me hungry for love chasing dreams.

But what about us? And show me you're willing to fight that I'm still the love of your life. I know we call this our home, but I still feel alone. I see their faces, look in their innocent eyes, they're just children from the outside, I'm working hard, I tell myself they'll be fine, they're independent. But on the inside I can hear them saying, lead me with strong hands or stand up when I can't. Don't leave me hungry for love chasing dreams.

But what about us? And show me you're willing to fight that I'm still the love of your life. I know we call this our home, but I still feel alone. I see the strength to be everything I'm called to be, oh Father show me the way to lead them. Won't you lead me to lead them with strong hands To stand up when they can't, don't wanna leave them Hungry for love, chasing things that I could give up And I'll show them I'm willing to fight And give them the best of my life So we can call this our home Oh, lead me cause I can't do this alone Father, lead me cause I can't do this alone Woo!

Wow. A great song. I'm wondering, is there one story you've heard from somebody who has heard that song and God's used it in a remarkable, powerful way in that guy's life or in that couple's life? Every time somebody asks me that, honestly, the same story comes to mind. I had a woman come up to me and she said, I'd been having an emotional affair with a man who wasn't my husband for several months and we had had a text exchange where we said, hey, we're gonna meet up and we're gonna be physical for the first time. She said on the way out of her house, she said they had their living room with a sliding door in the back of the house and as she was sliding open the door to leave, lead me came on the radio and she just stopped and listened and as the song played, she said by the end of the song, she was on her knees, crying, weeping, asking God to forgive her. When her husband came home, she told him everything.

She confessed, she repented and told him that she wanted to make things right and for them to grow in their marriage again together. And I think, man, what a crazy thing that God would bring a song on the radio in a moment like that just to speak to her heart and then all the stories I've heard of men who've pulled over on the side of the road hearing that song on the radio, just breaking down, realizing that they want to and need to be that for their wives. And so it's amazing music.

You take a real moment of your life and you put it in a bottle and you send it out and somebody takes it and they open it and they feel the exact same thing. And what I hear in that is the redemption of my pain. And so to me, when I hear those stories, my heart's cry in the midst of the toxic conflict where I'm like, use this, this is pointless and it's destructive. As a person, I'm obsessed with redemption.

So to me, that is like, okay, that was the redemption that came from those fights. I was teary again as I listened to that and especially reading and hearing your story because I think sometimes in marriage, we're amazed about how lonely we can be when our spouse is sleeping right beside us, but it can feel lonelier than when we were single. We have three of you guys around the table. Help us as women who are feeling lonely, who have felt like we've been trying to get you to hear us and we feel like nags or we feel like we've just shut down. How can we? Like we're longing for our men to lead. We're longing for our men to be with our kids or to lead spiritually. But we don't always know how to communicate it and I know I've done it really poorly in the past.

What should we be doing as women? How can we motivate and love and encourage our men? I'm just going to say what I heard Sarah say earlier, which is there's no magic way for you to say anything. It's going to take the Spirit of God to penetrate a husband's heart and it's not whether you're soft or angry or say it this way or say it that way or put it in a card or put it in a letter.

If the Spirit of God is not the one who penetrates, it's not going to make any difference. And so maybe spending as much time praying as you are inclined to do telling your husband what's wrong, maybe taking that to the Lord and saying, Lord, you know all of the things I'm frustrated by. You've got to do this work in my husband's heart. I can't.

I wish I had a formula. I wish I'd say, here, let me give you the 12 magic words. You say this and you'll have a new husband tomorrow. It doesn't work like that in our lives or in our marriages, right?

Yeah. It takes courage to speak up and say what we feel for any of us to say, hey, I have a wound, I have a feeling. Because you don't know how it's going to go. You really don't. But it also takes an equal amount of courage to approach the throne of God in prayer and trust that he'll take care of it. Yeah, I have something to learn from that, too. I mean, I think we do want to know that our wives are praying for us, you know, for sure. I think that's a good word, Bob. Yeah, I think, you know, I thought of two visuals.

I thought knees, mouth. I thought the most important thing you can do as a wife and as a husband if you really long for change in your spouse is ask God. Because like Bob said, like Matt said, it's not going to happen by me pushing Ann or Ann pushing me.

God has to do a supernatural work. But I also think, and Paul wrote in Ephesians 4, speak the truth in love. You can't be quiet. You've got to speak it in love. You speak it in the kitchen.

And it's funny. I'm listening to Matt sing the song. I thought Sarah wrote the song. You wrote the lyrics of the song. Absolutely. It's so amazing. You should be the co-writing.

I'll be the real rock star. Let's get that straight. But the beauty of it is God intervened.

But here's the other side of it. At some point, the spouse receiving that truth has to repent. You know, and you did, I did, Bob has. It's a daily thing, and God will meet you right there.

And you may never write a song or a book, but you will have a story that your kids, grandkids, and kids will tell forever. So, repent today. And I want to remind us, too, that the living God of the universe lives within us through His Spirit, who raised Jesus from the dead, and that is power. And our prayers have power.

God hears us, so don't give up getting on your knees. Thank you, guys. Thanks for being here with us. Thanks for sharing your story and for the song and for the book. We've got copies of Matt's book, Lead Me, available in our Family Life Today Resource Center. You can order the book from us online at familylifetoday.com, or call 1-800-FL-TODAY to get a copy or several copies to pass out to friends.

Again, the title of the book is Lead Me. Order online at familylifetoday.com, or call to order 1-800-FL-TODAY is the number, 1-800-358-6329. That's 1-800-F as in family, L as in life, and then the word today. We want to take just a minute and say thank you to a particular group of you who are regular listeners, those of you who not only listen, but who have in the past helped support this ministry either with an occasional donation or as a monthly legacy partner on behalf of the hundreds of thousands of people who benefit every day from connecting with us here on Family Life Today. Thank you for the investment you are making in the lives of husbands and wives and moms and dads, couples all around the world. You make that happen when you donate to support this ministry.

And if you're able to help with a donation today, we have a thank you gift we'd like to send you for your support. It's a book written by Holly Melton, who was a guest with us this week. She has mapped out a plan. Really, it's a 38-week plan for praying with your children every day before school. It's easy, it's achievable, it takes five minutes.

It will change the atmosphere in your home over time. As you do this, your kids will start saying to you, aren't we gonna pray before school in case you forget one day? Holly's book is our thank you gift when you make a donation online at familylifetoday.com or when you call to donate. 1-800-FL-TODAY is the number. Thanks again for your support. Ask for your copy of Holly's book when you donate today, and we appreciate your partnership with us here in this ministry. And with 9-11 In View coming up next week, we're gonna introduce you tomorrow to a woman who had a very personal experience on that day living in New York. You'll meet Shelley Genovese Calhoun tomorrow and hear her story. Hope you can tune in for that. I wanna thank our engineer today, Keith Lynch, along with our entire broadcast production team. On behalf of our hosts, Dave and Ann Wilson, I'm Bob Lapine. We'll see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a production of Family Life of Little Rock, Arkansas, a crew ministry. Help for today. Hope for tomorrow.