I regularly will have moments where I'm in the house, a thing has happened with a kid, right? It's like the, all right, I have to pause my whole day now to address this issue. So, you know, I'm in the hallway to try and make it a private moment with this child so the other ones are somewhere else.
And sometimes I'll use my imagination that moment and go, Jesus, help me do this well because I don't know the fruit of this moment or its impact. And I'll imagine it, how many lives will be impacted by this child in their adulthood because we handled this conversation well. Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Shelby Abbott and your hosts are Dave and Ann Wilson.
You can find us at familylifetoday.com. This is Family Life Today. So one of the things I'm still embarrassed about when our... Is this confession time?
I guess it sort of is. And I think our listeners maybe have heard me say this maybe one time because I'm embarrassed so I don't say it very often. But when we were first married, first year at the University of Nebraska as the chaplain for the Nebraska Cornhusker sports teams, I would be introduced, you know, hey, this is Dave Wilson. He's with Athletes in Action and he's our chaplain of the team. It was the first time in my life I was introduced as like, this is what you do. Previously, I was always introduced. Dave Wilson, he's the quarterback of the football team.
He's been all conference. He was all American and always had this thing. And I actually one day came home, I'm so embarrassed to say this, after months of this and I said to Ann, listen, nobody here knows that I was like something. I think his words were like, these people think I'm a loser. And so what I said to her, I can't believe I said this. See, you talk about insecurity. I said, so I can't say, hey, you know, last year, the last four years I was on a full schedule, you know, I was something. So, hey, when I'm introduced, could you just drop it in?
I literally ask her, would you mind making me look awesome? How embarrassing. I did it. Yeah, you did it.
That's even worse than you actually did it. So we've got Kelly and Jimmy Needham talking about purpose and calling and identity. We started a conversation yesterday where if you didn't hear that, go back, listen to yesterday, because we're going to follow up on that. With her book, purpose fooled. Yeah. And again, welcome back. When you hear that story, are you just like, you got to be kidding me?
Did you think loser too? Can we have confession number two on the Needham side? I'll start.
Let's go. No, those early years of touring, which if you heard yesterday's program, you'll remember this. I was very insecure in the touring life with you. And I would pull you aside and go, Jimmy, you have to tell them you're married and that your wife is here. And you have you have to let your audience know because the people don't know who I am.
I'm over here at your merch table. Like I was kind of like, make a big deal of me. That's pretty much what I said. More than one occasion.
That was easy for me to do. Totally feel you. Jimmy, what's your confession?
Yeah, I'm trying to think of a day where I'm not having those feelings. It has been interesting to be a recording artist, which sounds super cool. Come on. But we all know you were famous. Well, people are famous. I heard somebody say this about himself before and I liked it. I'm fame-ish.
It feels more appropriate. But then, you know, my whole life, before I got the record deal, I was winning the talent shows and lead actor in the play and always at the top. And then I got signed. And now you're in a different pool of people.
And you're running beside those guys. It was just amazing what my heart did. I didn't have words for so long. I just felt bad. And I didn't even know that it was envy at the time.
It was just, I felt really sad, kind of angry, a little bitter. And I remember one time I'm driving to a show with my band and this is not one of the super sexy tours where you're on a big tour bus. This is like a white van. A white 15-pound van.
That's right. I've got my drummer driving. I'm laying in the back row. And we're going to some town that nobody's ever heard of.
And I just got worried that one of my peers, who was a friend of mine, had his face plastered up in Times Square like his song's number one. Like all of that's happening. And I'm seething. And God brings to mind in the back of the van, John 21. And I know the passage, but I went and I read it again. And if you don't know it, it's the moment where Jesus is resurrected.
He's returned. He's with his disciples on the beach and he's talking with Peter. Jesus says to Peter, hey, I tell you the truth. When you were young, you used to dress yourself, go wherever you wanted.
When you're older, someone else is going to dress you and stretch you out and lead you to where you do not want to go. He said this to indicate by which kind of death Peter would glorify God with. And then he says, follow me. And that phrase struck me. I was so confronted with just my own sin, like, oh, it might be the death of my career that brings glory to God more than like the success of it. And do I have a tolerance for that?
Do I have an appetite for it? Do I want God's fame more than my fame? Oh, there it is. Am I equally as happy when my buddy goes number one with a single that's boasting about Jesus and my song is getting no radio traction? Am I equally as happy if it means that God is somehow glorified in both? And my answer is no, like, I'm not equally happy.
Like, I just I would sure like to be on Times Square, you know? That was a big turning point for me of just realizing, oh, my identity, my sense of worth is way too tied to my accomplishments. I am way less impressed with the fame of Jesus.
I'm way more impressed with the fame of Jimmy. And that's a big problem. And God, for years after that, was just working on me to work a lot of that out of me. We know this. That's in the human DNA.
That's right. It's really scary. We're facing that continually. When we started speaking for the Weekend to Remember with Family Life, I was 29. And the first conference I ever did, a woman came up to me. I was going to be the speaker for the women. And she was in her 50s. And she came up to me and she said, I am so disappointed that you are our speaker.
I am too! What would you possibly learn from me? I remember going back to the room and getting on my knees before Jesus. And I said, I have no business, especially when somebody points it out. Lord, I can't even do this. And so there's that other part of it where I'm nothing. I'm nobody.
I have nothing to be able to give. And so that was when I was younger. Now we're getting older. And so this window of opportunity is closing. And now it's like, yeah, you're too old to be relatable to what's going on. And so we're faced with both ends of it. You know, will I have a voice now that I'm older?
Did I have a voice when I was younger? And does that even matter? He intends to make us fruitful. He intends to bear fruit from our lives.
He really does. I mean, that is a promise. And that is an expectation for all who are in Christ that they would bear fruit, which means impact.
As long as we have breath, right? That's right. Which means it's not associated with what we're doing, with how relevant we are, with what we have to contribute, with our skill set or lack of skill set. It actually only has to do with our connection to the vine. And so long as we're connected to him, we can bear fruit. That's right. Oh, let's talk about that abiding.
Because you write about it. What does that look like in terms of, as we're talking about purpose? Yeah. When I think about that passage, John 15, that's really the classic place that we would go to for Jesus talking about that, that he says, apart from me, you can do nothing. And that was really, I think, my first lesson in what makes my life purposeful or meaningful.
Apart from me, you can do nothing. My thought, I remember studying that passage was, wow, then Jesus, there's a whole lot of really effective, impressive looking nothing in the world. There is. There are whole organizations being built, buildings being built, countries being built, whole things that look like they're really changing things that you would say if they're not done in me, connected to me, they're nothing. And the final analysis, it will be blown away, isn't it?
Yeah. And that's really helped me though, because it's really tempting to look around on social media, whatever else we're doing, and to see stuff happening and assess it as important, noteworthy, effective. And then to look at your own life that looks very mundane and normal, go, well, this doesn't compare to that. It's like, well, let me change my perspective.
Let me take off the glasses I have on and put on a different pair and go, Jesus, how would you see it? And he says, apart from me, you can do nothing. It's like, well, okay then. But that also means with me, you can do everything. I remember realizing, and it was in an early season of motherhood, it's like, all right, then abiding with Jesus is the most important thing that I can do to make my life effective. That if I do that, he promises fruit will come. He says, anyone who abides in me, he will bear much fruit. It's a promise. I don't have to worry about the fruit. I don't have to work hard to make the fruit come. I just have to stick close to him. And his promise and guarantee is it will be fruitful. There will be impact. That's really good.
What does that look like? I'm thinking about your life, Kelly. Yeah.
As you, so as a young mom, you have five kids now. You continue, it was cool yesterday to talk to you to hear how you continually make Jesus a priority to abide with him. I think that finding time to connect with Jesus every day has, I've realized that is paramount and important. It doesn't matter so much if it's at the beginning of the day. I mean, that's obviously right. That feels like the ideal Christian standard, right? Start your day with Jesus. Yeah.
When you have a newborn and you also have school age kids, which I did very recently, I have a one-year-old that did not work. I could not do that. I had to find different ways to find connection with Jesus, even if it was just on the drive to school with kids or on a walk or listening to my Bible or finding ways to pray. But it less was important to me how that looked, but that I had a way to connect with him and share my real, where I was really at with the Lord and get some kind of intake from his word and, and from the community that I'm in. And I was like, that's priority number one. And if my purpose is a person, if my purpose is Jesus, then there's nothing else more important in my day. That means if my laundry doesn't get done and if dinner doesn't get made the way I want it to, and if we have snacks for lunch, not sandwiches, it's okay.
If that's what it takes for me to connect with him, I'm going to fight for that. So what is the fruit that has come from that? I don't exactly know. Ask her husband. I could ask him, but I would even say like, even as I'm, I'm studying it and I'd be interested, Jimmy, in your thoughts, but I don't think he tells us to concern ourselves with the fruit. And I don't know if I'll see the full bloom of all the fruit of that abiding in my lifetime. I have five kids now who are getting to witness every day a woman who's saying Jesus is the most important person.
Wow. That, I'm just like, you guys are still young enough that you're, you know, you have a 13. In other words, we're old, we're going to tell you. That pays off. That's the greatest gift you're giving your kids. The greatest one that they see that Jesus is your everything. Because you can say it, you can give them the orders, you can do, you know, make them memorize this and that, but it's like, if they don't see you treasuring, delighting, enjoying, it's like, I don't buy it.
Isn't it, again, I'm not, you know, an expert on what you do as a songwriter singer, but isn't that what music is as well? The audience can feel if this is an overflow, especially in worship or if it's a performance. And when you're like, I'm in the presence of a guy or a gal who been with Jesus and this comes out of that relationship, you're like, wow. That's what our kids are watching in our parenting, right? And it feels messy at the time, doesn't it?
It is very messy. I remember taking the kids to school and they're in the back, you know, and I got into a habit when our kids were born that when I would put them in a car seat, I would just get in the car driver's seat and I would start praying because you have to bring him into Jesus into every, every minute of the day. And I wanted them to know that we pray without ceasing through everything. I'm talking to them all day long.
And so that became a habit, which over the years, they're in the car, I'm praying out loud, Lord, I'm really struggling today. So they hear the messy, they hear the mundane, but they also hear the like, God, look at this glorious day, look at these leaves, like you're amazing. Some of the fruit is just there.
They don't even know what fruit is. They're watching you have a vibrant relationship with Jesus. And that's what you're showing them.
You know, I think we want to see the effect and the return of our efforts. And in some of these seasons, we have to use our imagination. That's been a really important part of this journey for me is stewarding my imagination.
What's that mean? I regularly will have moments where I'm in the house, a thing has happened with a kid, right? It's like the, all right, I have to pause my whole day now to address this issue. So, you know, I'm in the hallway to try and make it a private moment with this child. So the other ones are somewhere else. And there's times where, you know, Jimmy's at church preaching, you know, or prepping to, or on the road. And there's crowds in my visual for him.
Right. And here I am with this one child. And sometimes I'll use my imagination that moment, go, Jesus, help me do this well, because I don't know the fruit of this moment or its impact.
And I'll imagine it, how many lives will be impacted by this child in their adulthood because we handled this conversation well. Help me, Jesus, to see the crowd of people behind this moment. So good. It's like, I need that. We are hungry for that meaning, that purpose. And when we see it visually in crowds and platforms and stages, that's why we run there. But I think Jesus has that vision for us in the scriptures.
We just have to carry it into these moments of our day and use our imagination to remember. You guys address the person that's listening that maybe feels like, man, I did that with my kids. And now this child is older and they are doing nothing. They've walked away from the church. You know, they have, I'm not seeing the faith they proclaimed when they were younger. How would you encourage them? If you don't have a vision of the sovereignty of God and an appreciation for the Lord doing 10,000 things that we can't see in a moment, it would really would be crippling and discouraging to experience that. And so I agree with any mom or dad who has a wayward son or daughter, that would be so hard.
And at the same time, I am comforted by the fact that so long as they're breathing, the game isn't over. Who knows what the Lord is doing? As a pastor now, I'm privy to just a thousand wonderful stories of like, it didn't happen when I thought it would, but later in life, my daughter who abandoned Jesus was convicted of her sin and came back to Christ and this just happened. A gal at our church ran away from the Lord, started living a homosexual lifestyle. All of that got baptized at our church just recently, came back to the Lord. But when you're in it, like before that, like the day before that happens, you still feel like all hope's lost.
You still feel like, you know, but it's the day before that happens. It's like, who knows what our God is up to. And then maybe just the other thing I'd add is I want everybody to come to know Jesus, but my chief goal in life is not to see results in my decisions as a parent or as a pastor, as a songwriter. My chief goal in life is to glorify the Lord and enjoy Him forever.
And if that is the aim, then the whole world around me can go bonkers. And the main thing is still getting accomplished. My God is being made much of in my heart and in my life. And so I don't know if that feels too reductionistic, but for me, it's like, yeah, that can be done no matter how my kid responds to my disciplining or my parenting or my gospel presentation or whatever. God can still be exalted. And He promises that if you keep abiding with Him, it will bear fruit. I mean, it will. It is a will statement in John 15.
I take a lot of comfort in that. So even if you don't see the fruit you're wanting, it doesn't mean it's not bearing fruit or maybe something's growing underground you can't see yet. And you really do have to entrust that labor to God. That's His labor. His labor is to abide with Him. His labor is to bear the fruit. And that's hard. We want to be more in control of it than that.
And we're in a culture that tells us we can be more in control of the effects of our life than that. And I think too, that's why for me, I have to be in the Word every day. I have to be with Him every day because when you're reminded of the greatness, the vastness, the power, the love, the grace, it allows you to take a breath to say, you love Him. You love her. You love me. And I can trust you.
You know, like you said, you seize those sacred moments in the dark hallway when your husband might be off and you're alone and you're like, this is so insignificant, but it is. I mean, I don't know if it's appropriate here, but, uh, I remember years ago in Little Rock, we interviewed Chip Ingram. I was going to say that day and he told the story about his son, Jason, who walked away from the Lord and they prayed and prayed and his son had just walked away.
They raised him the right way. And he said, I'm out. Then he comes back and you know, you probably know he's written some of the best songs, you know, Lauren Daigle, You Say Hi, I'm Loved, you know, that's Jason Ingram's song. I've written with him many times. Yeah. So you know him better. And Chip said, when he asked his son, why did you come back? He said, every day I saw you sit on a couch with your Bible open and I couldn't get that out of my head.
Yeah. He's real. I watched my parents and again, we don't live it perfectly, but they're watching and those little sacred moments that we think are insignificant, right. Could turn into the life changing moment that your son or daughter says, uh, it's real. Well, and it's interesting that his attention is drawn back to you, his dad's personal clinging to Jesus.
Not like he's trying to disciple into him as much, not all the lectures, right. But like you personally were very attached, right. Emotionally, relationally to a person I couldn't see. And that's always the question for me, is that happening?
Am I walking that out? And sometimes as a mom, I don't know if anyone else, any other moms feel this, but it almost sometimes felt like a luxury to have extended time with Jesus. That sounds silly maybe, but it was like, no, I need, it feels very noble. I need to move the laundry. I need to do this for my child to do that for my child feels too luxurious to have like an hour of time to sit with God. I'm like, no, that's your command. That's your command.
Number one. And it might not be an hour, you know, but then you can have nuggets of time. You can sit down. I think as a mom, sometimes you have many kids, it feels wrong in the middle of a busy day to sit. Or even selfish. It can feel selfish.
I hear that from other moms as well. Like, no, this is, the Lord has told you, this is your first and greatest command and it is enjoyable to you. It should be, it is restful for you.
It's meant to be. So receive it without guilt, knowing this is actually step number one to even enable you to love your neighbors yourself, which those little children are your first neighbors. You can't do that well without the first part. And that really freed me to then go, okay, I can spend time doing this. Even if, you know, my kitchen is a mess still.
That's okay. And we all know we do what our priorities. We do our priority.
That's right. You know, you know, moms that have five kids, six kids, and then somehow they work out because their body, they say, I got to do this and you know, I think I've done it. My body's more important than my spiritual life.
It's like, I get a way to get an hour workout in, but I didn't spend it. It's like, yeah, if my purpose is a person, the person has to be a priority. Let me ask you this. How does this priority of abiding in Christ, how do you do it together as a couple? Talk marriage because you've got a full life and craziness going on in your home.
Is there an overlap together as you do this? We just try to be really vocal with each other about what's going on in our internal lives a lot and like get the kids down and we're probably talking for an hour after that. Just everything from what our days like to, you know, I read this thing and it made me feel and I realized, oh, I'm putting too much hope and you know what this person thinks about me or whatever. I think what you're even saying is we've made each other's soul and relationship with God a priority. So like I care very deeply that you're healthy and your walk with Jesus is healthy and you care very much about that for me and have often gone, do you need to get out?
Yeah. That's so sweet. Do you need to get out and like, you know, have some time alone away from the house? And I've said the same thing to you that even more than our marriage, sometimes it's like, you need to be healthy with Jesus. I need to be healthy with Jesus first. Then we can work on us. Usually if we do the first part well, we don't have to do much work on us. It's very natural.
There's an overflow there. No, I'll tell you what it hasn't looked like and this is sometimes jarring to some believers is it has not looked like us pouring over the word in a Bible study together every day. It has not looked so much like that. I think there's a ton of value in that, but for us, we're able to be spiritually vibrant with each other, with the Lord, without some of the more formal trappings that when I was 19 and I was asking marriage advice of people. I remember I was, it was like a month before I was getting married and I was leading worship for a men's retreat and the speaker there was a retired Dallas seminary professor, just, you know, savant man of God, you know, in his eighties, didn't even preach from notes. I asked him marriage advice, like, how do you like spiritually lead your wife, all that.
And he says, well, early on in our marriage, I taught my wife biblical Greek and Hebrew and we study the scriptures in the original language. Are you kidding me? That was his advice to me. I mean, that's what we do. I was like, that's what I do. I'm sure that's what you guys do.
Oh yeah, every time. Yes, it's not what we ended up doing. We had a little Aramaic in there too, but I do think there is some sort of like aspiration in biblical minded Christians of like, oh, that's the pinnacle.
That's the pinnacle. It's like, maybe for them. But it took me a while to like, go, okay, I can't live this man's life in my marriage. It's like, I just need to be praying for her, being concerned for her spiritual vibrancy. And that may look different, but letting myself off the hook with some of like the things that there's no verse that says, dude, that it just says that I need to lead and shepherd my wife.
Well, I love her and sacrificially, but it does not say teach her biblical Hebrew. You got yourselves into a rhythm when the kids are in bed, that you catch up with each other. What's going on with your heart? What's going on with your spiritual life?
I think those are really good questions. Yeah. I know when I heard you say that, Ann has said to me for 40 plus years now, I just want to talk about God together. Like, I was in the Word today. It's easy for me not to share that. It's like, no, no, no, that's important. I'm going to tell her and there's something that happens in that conversation.
A lot of couples don't even do that. I'm Shelby Abbott, and you've been listening to Dave and Ann Wilson with Jimmy and Kelly Needham on Family Life Today. We'll hear some encouragement from Kelly for someone who has a spouse who may not be walking with the Lord in just a second, but first, Kelly Needham has written a book called Purpose Fooled. It's about why chasing your dreams, finding your calling and reaching for greatness will never be enough. Wow.
What a great title. This book, we really believe in it, and it's going to be our gift to you when you give to the ministry of family life. You can get your copy of Kelly's book Purpose Fooled right now by simply going online to familylifetoday.com and clicking on the donate now button at the top of the page, or give us a call with your donation at 800-358-6329. Again that number is 800-F as in family, L as in life, and then the word today. And feel free to drop us a donation in the mail if you'd like.
Our address is Family Life 100 Lakehart Drive, Orlando, Florida 32832. All right, now let's hear more encouragement from Kelly for someone who has a spouse who may not be walking with the Lord. We'd be remiss, I know we're at the end, but for a spouse that doesn't have a somebody like a husband or wife that's even willing to talk about spiritual things, or maybe they're a believer but they're just not there, how would you encourage them? Don't underestimate your prayer life for them. Do not underestimate what God is doing in your praying, especially in marriage.
I mean, we all know it. We're tempted to nag people to death to get them to change, that's just such a strong temptation in marriage, that just does not, what you need is God to come alive to them and you can... Nag God about his spouse. That's right, he does tell us to do that. But yeah, don't underestimate the power of prayer and consistent nagging prayer of God to do the transforming work that you would like to see happen. And I think that's even true for your own heart, I mean, I thought about what you're saying earlier about moms getting in the word, there may be moms listening going, I have zero hunger for God, I just want to sleep, I just want to get away from everybody. But if you have any part of you that hears that and goes, I would love to have a hunger for God, we'll start there. Pray for a hunger, just occasionally when you're in the car, God, I'd feel no hunger or appetite for you at all, would you change that in me?
And just start asking for it, he will, start honestly where you're at, but those prayers really are effective, maybe not in the hour we pray them, but they will bear fruit, especially as we keep bugging God. That's good. Thanks you guys. That was awesome. Now coming up next week, Chad and Emily Van Dixhorn are going to be here with the Wilsons as they discuss grace, forgiveness, and practical ways to live out a Christ-centered union. Really looking forward to that next week. On behalf of David and Wilson, I'm Shelby Abbott. We'll see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a donor-supported production of Family Life, a crew ministry helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.
