I think God, sincerely, because He loves us and wants a relationship with us, He wants us to see Him as He is. I mean, it's the essence of marriage, right? You want to know the person you're married to and really know Him and really know her.
I don't think it's any different with God. He wants us to really know Him as He is. Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Shelby Abbott, and your hosts are Dave and Anne Wilson. You can find us at familylifetoday.com.
This is Family Life Today. So, I haven't thought about this till right this very second, but if you could do like a percentage on me, and I'd wonder what yours would be, of the emotions that I've experienced in my walk with God over four decades. Okay.
I've just realized, I think disappointment would be pretty high. Really? We have never talked about this.
I know. This is great. I want to hear the rest of this. I mean, I've never thought of it. So, you're just kind of quickly cataloging in your brain, and you're thinking disappointment would be near the top. You're listening to Barbara Rainey, who's with us.
She's back with us today. They're like, we know this voice. You can't wait to enter. Okay, keep going. Isn't that an interesting? Yes, it's a great comment. No, as we started yesterday with Barbara talking about disappointment with God, I was just sitting here thinking, okay, now there's joy, and there's happiness, and there's contentment. And again, I know these aren't even emotion words.
Psychologists are like, dude, doesn't even... I know. But disappointment is over 50 for me, at least maybe over 60. And again, I'm not complaining. I'm not saying God hasn't blessed my life.
He has. I should have, of all people, not even be saying this. Well, I'm going back over your life, and I'm thinking, well, you had a father that was an alcoholic, a mother that was an alcoholic. Your little brother died.
Your parents divorced. You've had some really hard things. And I think most of us have. But I'm actually thinking, after coming to Christ, it didn't get easier.
I mean, again, I am grateful, and I'm thankful, and I am saying to Jesus, thank you for my life. I am not complaining. Although I have complained, and we're okay to complain. We talked about that yesterday. Barbara gave us license to complain. And actually, Barbara, yesterday I thought, I need to start journaling, because I keep, like you said, we're alike a little bit in that we hold more of ourselves in.
Ann and Dennis are more, I hold it in, and I need an outlet. I'll complain to Ann. I'll complain to God in prayer, but to write it down. Here's my fear. Somebody's going to read it. And then I'm like, oh, boy.
I thought about burning my journal someday. Really? Yeah. Yeah, because it's so personal.
Yeah. Okay, Barbara, where would you rank yours? Would that be a disappointment? Would that be a high percentage? It would be very high.
It would be like day 50 or 60 anyway. I wonder if that's normal. That's maybe average. Well, it may be, because I mean, like you, the Christian life has been exponentially harder than I ever imagined it would be. Yeah. I mean, really. Yeah. Even from just day-to-day small stuff, you know, just surrendering over and over again.
And it's good, but it's hard. Even as we were talking about, what should we talk about this time? You mentioned just the last few years. It's been six years since you left the leadership of Family Life. Right.
It's been five years since we left the leadership of a church we started 30 years ago. And it's been a hard journey for us. One of the hardest, actually. Well, ditto.
I would say the hardest for me. Dark. See, I didn't know that. See, that illustrates a part of the situation that we're all in. Yeah. I had no idea this was a big, hard transition for y'all. Oh, it's been a hard thing.
And there were plenty of people that would look at us and go, really? This has been hard for you? So, talk about that a little bit.
So, that's interesting, isn't it? I want to hear about your hard journey you've been on. One of the more difficult things has been what we've now come to understand is the loss of identity. And that's what you're experiencing, too, because you have a certain sense of identity as a mom. I've been a mom for all these years to these six kids. And then when they're all gone and you hit the empty nest, it's all of a sudden, well, who am I now? And what do I do with my life? That's a loss of identity.
For sure. When you get fired from a job and you didn't see it coming, and now you're at home staring at the computer trying to figure out what to do next, and you feel aimless, you feel worthless, you feel rejected. That's a loss of identity. Dennis and I, for sure, went through that when we left Family Life because for 40 years, he had been the president of Family Life. He'd hosted the broadcast. He'd been- He started it. Yeah, started it. He got calls every day, people sending books every day, and people asking him to speak forever and ever. And he was just constantly saying no. And it was like all of a sudden, the spigots got turned off on everything, you know? And we're sitting at home going, well, now what?
Yeah. And who are we? And God, what do you have for us? And there's no answer from God as to what he has for us, you know? I mean, we're waiting for an answer.
What do you have? And here we are six years, and we're still not real sure what God has, so we just keep going a day at a time. But that's a real significant disappointment in all of our lives when we come to those places where our circumstances change and we are not quite the same we were as before.
In the course of this, I realized one day that that's what I was struggling with, about a year and a half into this. And I went to my office where I've got all my favorite books are in there, and I pulled A Grace Disguised Off the Shelf by Dr. Jerry Sitzer. And he's been on the broadcast before. Yeah, we had him after you guys had him. Oh, you had him too.
In Little Rock. Oh, good for you. In our first year, and we didn't know Jerry, and oh my goodness. Isn't he a great guy?
He was fabulous. Well, his book is, in my opinion, one of the very best books on grief ever written. Our shelves have lots of extra copies because we're giving them away, and I'm always telling people, if you don't have this book, buy it. You may not need it today, but you will need it someday.
Buy it and put it on your shelf. It's just that important. What an interesting title, Grace Disguised. Well, and I think that's a part of what we're talking about. God takes us to these hard places, and it's a grace for us, but we don't see it that way.
Not at all. And yet, he's trying to take us to the grace part, and he wants to get us there, and sometimes it's hard, I think, for him to get us there. Well, take us back because here you guys have founded a family and marriage ministry. You're both figuring out this identity. You're going through an identity crisis in a way.
Yes. What did that look like in your marriage? Dennis is home then.
Now he's home all the time with you. Well, it was challenging for both of us, so I grabbed that. But first thing I did was when I grabbed that book, I read the whole thing, but the chapter that stood out to me was the one on a loss of identity. And when I read it, I went, that's what we're feeling. That's what both of us are feeling, and we couldn't put a name on it. And I gave him the book, and I said, you have to read this.
I mean, you just have to read it, and he did. So there have been just been so many adjustments, and a lot of them are wrapped up in the loss of identity. But we've been trying to figure out who are we, because we're different people than we were with the Family Life umbrella and the Family Life family surrounding us. You know, those people weren't there.
The umbrella wasn't there. The job description wasn't there. We didn't get up and go every day. It was a big adjustment to figure out who we are, what does God want us to do, and how are we going to live life now? Yeah, and a lot of that, I mean, we experienced the same thing. I bet you did. And it's interesting, being a chaplain for an NFL team, for years, three decades, I would say to guys as they walked out of the NFL, either retired or injured or cut, this isn't who you are.
This was never your identity, and they had a hard time, because their entire life they'd been an athlete. And I just, I almost was like, how can you not see this? And then it happened to me. Did you hear yourself in the back of your mind?
Yeah. Did you really? It was never my identity to be a pastor. It was never, it just, I mean, it was an important part of our lives, obviously, but it was never who we are. But to say that to somebody else and then look in the mirror and go, okay, do I believe that I am a valuable person in the world without a stage to walk on?
And people looking at me and saying, open the word of God for us, please. I didn't have that anymore. It feels like your identity lists, you know, and we're not.
Well, I'm thinking that same thing. Like when we had three boys, five and under, and it was absolute chaos, I remember thinking to myself, I don't even have a life. I don't even have a life anymore. But then when they were all gone, I remember saying to Dave, that was the best part of my life. Like, now who am I? Isn't that funny? I finally got good at it.
I felt confident. And now they're gone. Now who am I? But I'm over here.
I'm here. Yeah, yeah, I know. Demdahl said the same thing. Yeah.
He has said the exact same thing. I'm here. Yeah. And so we're saying this identity crisis can follow us. So the question is, what have you discovered?
Well, I think what God wants us to discover in all of this is that He is sufficient. We preach it all the time. We tell people. Yes. We know it in our head.
Athletes, right. But He's saying, okay, now let me show you that I am all you need and I am sufficient. And He takes us to these places and He waits for us to kind of hit the wall or come to the end of ourselves or whatever.
And then like Job, He says, okay, let me show you a thing or two. And He kind of writes our ship and lets us know a little bit more, a little peek more into who He is. I mean, we forget, I think.
This is one of the things I'm realizing. We forget as believers who we worship. We forget who God is. We forget that He is mysterious. We want Him to be tangible, touchable and figure out.
Yes. We forget that He is almighty. We forget that He is beyond comprehension and we relate to Him and treat Him in a sense as if He's like us. And I think God is constantly trying to change that perception and say, no, no, no, that's not who I am. I want you to see that I'm grand and I'm the almighty, which is, again, what He did with Job. He showed a glimpse of Himself to Job and Job's response was, I repent.
Now I see you as you are. And I think God, sincerely, because He loves us and wants a relationship with us, He wants us to see Him as He is. I mean, it's the essence of marriage, right?
Yeah. You want to know the person you're married to and really know Him and really know her. I don't think it's any different with God.
He wants us to really know Him as He is. I'm thinking that's probably what happened to you and Dennis in these last six years. Like, you probably know one another in an even deeper way. We know each other much better. Yeah.
And the same thing happens with God as we lean into Him. And, Barbara, one of the things I've always loved about you is you love God's Word. Mm-hmm. I'm looking at your Bible that's all marked up.
I've been with your daughter, Ashley, that you can't even read the words on the page because it's so marked up. Yeah. As you've read Scripture, I know that has ministered to you as you've gone through this identity kind of crisis. And I'll just add, you know, as I said yesterday, I read your blog and you bring insights to the Word of God. Yes. Thank you. For the reasons I keep reading, it's like, I didn't see that. And you've, even in this area of disappointment with God, I've already read it, but I want listeners to hear your insights on Mary and Martha. Yeah. Yeah. Because there's insights there about their disappointment that I think need to be illuminated for all of us.
They're rich. Well, the story of Mary and Martha is the one at the end of the book of John. We know about the first encounter when Martha was in the kitchen and she was complaining and Jesus said, Martha, Martha, you know, Mary's chosen the better. But in the book of John, he takes almost an entire chapter, chapter 11, and he tells the story of when Lazarus died.
I could spend a whole lot longer than we have on this. So I'm going to try to get to the point really quickly. But as the story goes, Lazarus died. Jesus had not come when they first asked him to come. They thought he was going to come immediately because he was their friend. They are good friends.
Good friends. And he loved Mary and Martha and they knew, Mary and Martha knew that Jesus loved them, but Jesus didn't come. He actually went the opposite direction. And when he finally came, Lazarus had been in the grave four days. And when Martha heard that Jesus was there, that he had finally come, she jumped up and ran down the road and met him and got in his face. Again, this is amazing to me. And she said, and I imagine with great passion and maybe even anger, Jesus, if you had been here, he would not have died.
I mean, I almost picture her shaking him or, or if not, just drilling him with her eyes and saying almost like, how dare you? Why didn't you come? I thought you loved me.
I thought you loved us. Why did you not come? What's so interesting about that is that he came and she, she said that to him. And then she says, even now I know that whatever you ask of God, God will give you. And then Jesus said to her, your brother shall rise again. And then Martha said to him, and again, I imagine this with some passion and emotion. She said to him, I know that he will rise again on the last day. Like, come on, I know that.
Don't tell me something I already know. Maybe that isn't the way it happened, but that's how I would have said it. That just is how I picture myself feeling it even if I didn't say it.
Yeah, I would have said it. And then Jesus said to her, I am the resurrection and the life. He who believes in me shall live even if he dies. And I, okay, I'm thinking Martha's kind of getting calmed down. She's hearing the master speak and she's hearing him say, I am the resurrection and the life. And that had to have gotten her attention because when Jesus said, I am, she knew what that meant. And I think that softened her. And then she responded to him and she said, yes, Lord. And I hear humility now.
I have believed that you are the Christ, the son of God, even he who comes into the world. So it was like she saw Jesus and remembered who he was. She said, okay, I will trust you. She didn't say that, but that was her heart attitude. He brought her to a place of saying, I trust you.
And then this is what's so cool. Jesus said to Martha, call your sister. Where is Mary?
Call your sister. Now that is not in scripture, but we know he said that because Martha left Jesus and she went away and called Mary saying, the teacher is here and he is calling for you. I mean, that just gives me chills when I read it because Mary didn't go. She heard that Jesus had come and she didn't go. Why didn't Mary go? Why did only Martha get up and run?
They're two very different people is why. Martha's bold. She's in charge. She's the eldest. She wanted to get the facts. She wanted to confront Jesus and find out why were you not here? But Mary, Mary was the sensitive one.
She was the one who sat at his feet and listened. And I think Mary was so crushed and so wounded and so disappointed in God that she couldn't get up off the floor. She couldn't get out of the fetal position on her chair or couch. I mean, I think she thought, well, Jesus is here, but it's too late. He could have done. He could have fixed this. She probably felt so hopeless.
I think she felt terribly hopeless and defeated. So Martha comes, she says to Mary, the teacher is here and he's calling for you. And I just love that about Jesus because I imagine that's what he's saying to all of us every day in every situation.
The teacher is here and he's calling for you. The question is, will we get up and go? But Mary did. Mary got up and went and when she heard it, she arose quickly and came to him.
And then it says, now Jesus had not yet come into the village was still, but was still in the place where Martha had met him, which is also really cool. He didn't move. He stayed in one spot and waited for her.
And I wonder how long he just stood there waiting for her, but I think he would have. And in the same way, he's waiting for us. He is waiting for us. He's always waiting for us. And we think he's not. And I just think what is wrong with me that I forget that he's waiting for me all the time, but he is.
He's always waiting for me to come to him. Therefore when Mary came to where Jesus was, she saw him and she fell at his feet saying to him, Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died. Now those words are identical word for word with what Martha said, but look at the difference.
Martha was standing up. She was attacking Jesus almost verbally with her words. If you had been here, my brother would not have died, but Mary is on the ground at his feet and crying saying, if you had been here, he wouldn't have died. The difference in these two women and how they came to Jesus and what they said just is very revealing about how unique we are as people. They were very different sisters. And they're both disappointed. Both disappointed.
And it's just a display. You can express that in two very different ways. When Jesus therefore saw her weeping, he himself was moved in his spirit and he was troubled and he wept. And what I realized from this story is that for Martha, Jesus had words. He answered her questions, her intellectual questions, but for Mary, Jesus had tears. He met her with what communicated to her. He cried with her because that was, that was what she needed and that's where she was.
And he met her in that place of emotion. And I just love that picture of Jesus. He knows us so individually and so uniquely and he knows what we need and he meets us where we are. You know, it's interesting to hear you say that because so often, I'm guessing I've preached this decades ago. You think when you read that Jesus wept, you know, everybody said, hey, shortest verse in the Bible.
Yeah. You have this question like, well, he knew what he was going to do. So why is he weeping? Why would he weep?
And that's a perspective that I've never heard before. He's weeping because he's connecting with the emotion of Mary. He's not weeping for a Lazarus who's dead because he knows he's connecting to our pain.
It's a beautiful picture. If you're weeping, he's weeping. He's with you in that dark place. And it's why when we go to people who, homes of people who've lost someone or they're in grief, or you go to a hospital room or something, you feel emotion for these people. You love them, you hug them and sometimes we cry with them and it's a comfort.
It's identifying and being with that person in their grief and Jesus was with Mary in her grief. And I'm telling you, as you're reading the story and you're sharing this, Barbara, I'm like, this is why we have to be in the Word. It is why we have to be in the Word. We understand, we see who he is. We understand his greatness, his empathy, his kindness, his goodness, his holiness. I've shared with so many people, I have to be in the Word every day. Not because I'm holy, it's because I'm so desperate that I need to know him. I have so many thoughts that are racing and troubling that the Word grounds me. It makes me see who Jesus is and his love for us and it's compelling.
It makes you fall on your face before him. Even in our disappointment to know that he weeps with us. And sometimes, as I think we've all experienced, when you're disappointed and you're really struggling with God, it's the last thing you want to do. I'm not going to open this Word. I'm sort of hurt, I'm mad, I'm in pain. I don't want to listen to worship music and it's almost like I don't want to work out.
Get what? Get in the gym. It's going to be the best thing you can do, open the Word. Even if you can't see the Word because you're crying so hard, open the Word and maybe listen to the Word. Whatever it takes, you've got to let your eyes see him because he's there. He wants to reveal himself and he will.
And he will. And I think we're all different. I need a friend with me sometimes when I'm so angry. First, though, I need to vent it to God. I think sometimes we can rely on friends and people so much that we don't go to Jesus and tell him what we're thinking and feeling. And when we feel his absence, where are you, God? But I think, too, that I've had friends lay their hands on me and pray for me and all I can do is weep.
And sometimes that's a really good place, but other times I don't want to be around anybody. I think the real tragedy for all of us is that we don't go to him first. I don't go to him first.
I freely admit it. I wish it were not so, but my tendency is to try to fix whatever I'm in. And I'll go to the Word, but I don't necessarily go broken like Mary and Martha were. I don't necessarily go and fall before him as a first response. I just think our nature is to try to fix things first and we end up going to him second or third or fourth. I would agree with that. I go to him when I'm out of control, whether it's a sickness or a death where I can't do anything.
But you're right. If I can have a part of it, oh, I'm all about fixing it myself. Well, and he knows that about us. And he knows that we're prone to do it on our own first and go to him last. I mean, that's what the disciples did in the boat. They rode and they rode and they rode and they were trying to fix it and not have to wake Jesus and not bother Jesus. And he was saying, when are you going to bother me?
I'm sure. And he said, wake me up and I can fix this. There's a listener or thousands who right now are in the storm and they feel like God's asleep or God isn't, he's four days away and it's too late. Oh, I want Barbara, I would love for you to pray.
Because their marriage is over or their child is way, whatever it is, they have lost hope. And if you're listening to this and they need to know that God's, everything we said, they need to actually believe today and feel. And if you're working out, if you're walking, you know, if you're driving, like stop for a second.
Not if you're driving, but maybe, maybe pull off the side of the road, but if you're working out or walking, stop for a second and receive this prayer. Lord God, we love you. We thank you that you have redeemed us.
Thank you for the sacrifice of Christ on our behalf. But Father, we come and say, we are so often disappointed. We are so often in hard places. We don't know what to do and yet like little children, we frantically try to fix it and put the pieces back together.
And we work so hard to make everything better. And you're waiting like you waited on the road for Martha and for Mary. You wait for us to come to you. You wait for us to say, Jesus help. And we're so reluctant to say help and yet that's what you long to hear from us. So Father, I want to pray for listeners who are in seasons of really painful disappointment, really difficult circumstances. And in the middle of the storm, you want us to say, help Jesus. Will you help me?
Will you give me a glimpse of you? Will you help me to see you and to run to you like Mary and Martha did? And I pray, Father, that you will give each one of them courage to go to you. Give them courage to get up out of the chair and write in the journal. Give them courage to get up and get their Bible and start reading the Bible every day.
Give them courage to do the thing that they need to do that will connect them to you. Because when we can connect it to you, the circumstances aren't going to necessarily change and likely won't. But what you want us to do in the middle of those circumstances that don't change is you want us to say, help Jesus and I trust you and I will wait for you to work out whatever it is you're going to work out.
We forget how near you are. We forget how much you love us, but I pray that you will help us to come to you more and more quickly and more often. And we will know you as you are and not as we hope that you will be here as we pretend that you are, but we will know you as you really are. And may it be for your good and your glory, we ask in Jesus' name, amen. Amen.
Amen. How blessed we have been today with David and Wilson as they've been joined by the co-founder of Family Life Today, Barbara Ranney. I'm Shelby Abbott and I wanted to let you know that this weekend coming up tonight and going all the way through Sunday, we wanted to ask you to pray for the upcoming Weekend to Remember event that's happening in Scottsdale, Arizona. From tonight all the way through Sunday, couples are getting together to work on their marriages, grow closer to one another, and of course, grow closer to God. If that sounds like something that you would want to do too, I wanted to let you know that there are over 80 dates and locations available nationwide for Family Life's Weekend to Remember Marriage Getaway.
You have the flexibility to choose a venue that suits you the best and whether you prefer a local retreat or a destination weekend, there is something for everyone. So if you want more details and you want to explore all the different locations about where the Weekend to Remember is, you can head over to familylifetoday.com and check out the show notes. Now I wanted to also let you know that season four of Married with Benefits, it's hosted by Brian Goins and he's joined again this season by Harvard trained researcher and author Shanti Feldhahn. They're talking this season about the surprising secrets of highly happy marriages, the little things that make a big difference. You can subscribe now to Married with Benefits wherever you get your podcasts or head over to our YouTube channel.
Just search for Family Life's Married with Benefits. Now coming up next week, David and Wilson are joined by Dr. Gary Chapman. He's going to talk about the five traits of a healthy family. That's next week. We hope you'll join us. On behalf of David and Wilson, I'm Shelby Abbott. We'll see you back next time for another edition of Family Life Today. Family Life Today is a donor supported production of Family Life, a crew ministry helping you pursue the relationships that matter most.
