Hey, why don't you tell everybody one of your favorite Bible verses?
Okay, I will because it's Psalm 119, 105. And that verse says, Your word is a lamp for my feet and a light on my path. I mean, what an awesome. Bible verse that reminds us how scripture lights the way in marriage and parenting and basically everything else. And we're super grateful to the Christian Standard Bible for supporting this podcast.
Yes, and just for their work in helping people read God's Word clearly and faithfully. To learn more, go to csbible.com. Uh There was an event that took place in 2015 in Charleston, South Carolina that I don't think anyone will ever forget. I remember that too. Devastating.
Nine people killed by a young man, twenty-one years old. That a white male in his early 20s walked into the Emmanuel African Methodist Episcopal Church and began shooting him. Mr. Roof is charged with nine counts of murder and one count of possession of a weapon during the commission of the crime. You've hurt me.
Roof showed no emotion as relatives of the victims addressed him over a video link. Every fiber in my body hurts. I would never talk to her. That hurricane, I looked down, never the whole hurricane. Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most.
I'm Ann Wilson. And I'm Dave Wilson, and you can find us at familylifetoday.com. This is Family Life Today. That was the day our country was robbed. And I remember it.
Because it had an effect on me. It had an effect on people that were there. And we've got a gentleman in the studio today who was personally affected. Chris Singleton is with us today, who travels the country as an inspirational speaker, former professional baseball player.
So, Chris, I've heard you speak. You know, you're a YouTube phenomenon. Did you know that?
Well, I didn't know that, man. I didn't, but I appreciate that for sure, man. No, I mean, I've watched you, you know, in front of little kids and high schoolers and even businessmen and women. And one of the things I'll never forget, and I'd love to hear you talk about this, is what you call your five numbers: you know, 170, 50, 9, and 1. Did you see that?
I didn't even have to look at my notes. That was really good, man. No, I mean, when I first heard you say those numbers, I thought, you know, you're a baseball guy. You're talking about your average. You know, you said 170.
I'm like, oh, 170? No. Is that what he hit? And then. You walk through those numbers, and it's really life-changing.
So, help our listeners understand what. What do those numbers mean? I call it my struggle moment, man. Those numbers, to me, they keep me going every single day.
So there was one person that was misinformed and misled to hate people that looked like me. And unfortunately, this one person, he walked into my church, Mother Emmanuel A.M.E., and fired over 70 bullets. And during Bible study that night, over 50 of those bullets entered bodies. He took nine lives, and one of those lives happened to be my hero. My mom.
So those those numbers to me, uh when it gets tough, Being on the road when it gets tough, being away from my family. Those numbers lock me back in and they keep me going to keep spreading the good word. Hmm. Yeah, so can you take us back? I mean, you get a phone call.
You're what, 18 years old? 17? 18 years old. You know, just finished my freshman year of college. Had a pretty good freshman year playing this mid-major school.
Pretty good. I mean, you even beat Clemson. Yeah, you got his first time in school history. First time in school history beat Clemson, man. That's great.
Did you do anything in that game? I did. I had a great game, man. I already know this. I've tried to get a hug.
I like that, man.
So we beat Clemson four hits. You know, diving catch. And the coolest thing for me, man, my mom was such a baseball mom that she was a teacher at my high school. She's on the intercom the next day. Did y'all see my baby last night?
He had such a good game. Really? Man, phenomenal freshman season. But I call it the unthinkable is what happened to me and my family because we see stuff like that on TV and in the newspapers or on our phone or scrolling, but we never think it'll happen to us. And that's what that night, June 17th, 2015, was for me.
Get a phone call to come down to our church 'cause something bad happened. And ultimately, I get down there and I realize that it wasn't just something bad, but it was the unimaginable that my mother and eight other people were shot and killed.
So, Chris, you have two younger siblings. I do. Did they go to the church with you or the hospital? I went straight to my church. You know, this is fresh, and somebody said, 'Chris, get down here.' So I went down to my church and they put us in this hotel, is what they had us in at this time.
You know, You see all the social media stuff coming to your phone, everybody's calling you, but nobody's telling you anything. You just know something bad has happened. And I didn't didn't tell my brother and sister to come down there because I had no idea what the severity of it.
So. Ultimately though, that night I had to tell them that mom was gone. And it it wasn't just me. I had my my high school sweetheart, my wife now. that was there with me to help me break that news to him.
But it was really, really rough for us in that that moment. If I remember right, you got a call from your mom's phone. Yep.
So you almost think it's her. Exactly. But it's not.
So you have no idea. You get down there. When they say Your mom was gone because not everybody was killed. Nine were killed, and she's one of them. Do you remember thinking, What do I do?
Or what was your first thought? Were you angry? Were you sad? Like, walk us through your emotions. You know, meet me, first of all, when I got down there, it was just, I was just extremely anxious.
I didn't know what was going to happen. And we're in a hotel room, but it's actually like a conference room in the hotel. And so everybody in there is screaming, and you know, all the stuff's happening there, police in and out. And gave us the details of what happened.
Someone walked in. Yeah. This guy walked in with eight magazines of bullets with hate in his heart. his mission of starting a race war and he fired all those bullets in my church because of the color of their skin. That's what happened.
But, you know, that night I didn't know what why it happened or what was going on. I just knew that my mom went to Bible study. And later on that night, there was a coroner there and always mentioned that I hope people are privileged enough to not know who the coroner is because I was eighteen and I didn't know who she was. But she said to me, Chris, you can you describe your mom as what she asked me to do? ultimately I I thought, well, Is she asking me to describe this because my mom is hurt so bad?
Or is she asking me this because she's trying to confirm that my mom's okay? And so I'll describe my mom, and finally. She said, Chris, it's confirmed your mother's been taken away. And so when I heard that, it's like You know, you go numb. And Telling my brother and sister is probably one of the toughest things I've ever had to do in my life.
How old were they at the time? Little brother, 12, little sister, 15.
So, middle school, high school, telling them that our hero, our mom, was no longer with us. And your dad? Dad wasn't there that night. He wasn't doing too well. And so I called him and called other people.
I actually called my high school basketball coach. That's why I. got such a great relationship with him. Because we think, as sometimes as educators, you think you're doing what you're doing. Maybe you're making an impact.
Well, when my dad didn't answer, you know, my friends are calling me and this and that and the third. I call my coach. And so for me, That night was rough. It was really rough. There was no sleep that night.
My little brother, who was 12, I actually slept in the bed next to him, and you know, he's crying himself to sleep. And For a period there, I didn't I didn't give myself any time. You know, I just started thinking, What do I got to do for them? And we always hear, you know, Chris, be strong, stay strong. And so I thought being strong meant never crying.
I thought being strong meant never showing any emotion. And so there was a small period of time where I thought strength was being a robot. And life has a funny way of letting you realize that's not strength, that's just being fake. I'm grateful that God gave me the wisdom to be a real man and show emotion. And finally, you know, come back down to earth and figure out that, hey, we're all human.
We all go through things and showing emotion doesn't mean you're weak. It just means you're a human being. I mean, you had to keep it together. I mean, in some ways, were you the dad to your siblings? You know, I always say I was like a father figure, but I realized really quickly that being a father figure wouldn't work for them because I'm saying, hey, make sure you do this, do that, you know, straight A's, this, that, and the third.
They're like, Chris, if you don't get out of my face, man.
So I realized I just got to be a big brother because father figure wasn't going to cut it. But definitely taking care of them. And I always told them, hey, we want to make mom proud. You know, we can't let mom down. Let's just do what she wants us to do.
Whether she's here on earth or not, we know that she's rejoicing in a better place. Did you know the other victims that were killed that night? Did you know any of them? Absolutely. Mother Emmanuel, you know, we're a small church.
Always joked that the average age of Mother Emmanuel had to be like 65. You know, it was an old church, right? And so the young families we stuck together, you know, everybody was like, I mean, grandma, grandpa, or auntie, uncle. And so when you did well at your game, everybody at the church knew. You know, when you got a scholarship to play in college, everybody at the church knew they celebrated.
Oh, man, for sure is a family.
So I knew everybody that lost their life that night for sure. Ah, so I'm just wondering, here you are this young man. This person walks in to start a race war. How are you not enraged? Did you get to the point where you're sad?
You said you were in shock. Did you get angry? You know, sometimes people ask me, Chris, would you change a thing?
Well, absolutely, I would. I want my mom here with me. But I know for a fact that God put forgiveness in my heart because there's no way in the world that I could have said that I forgave my mother's killer. And the way that I describe it is when I forgave my mother's killer, it was like a reporter kind of rushed me and said, hey, Chris, you know, how do you feel about it? Remember, she was from the BBC.
She said, how do you feel about all these things happening? What do you think about the killer? And I said, you know, I already forgive him. Our family already forgives him. And my sister looks over at me like.
We, what? Right? And for me, I described as being on an autopilot. You know, you know, you're driving home sometimes and you don't even know if you turn left or right, but you just get into your driveway. You're like, man, I don't know what stoplight I was at.
I don't know what stop sign. I was on an autopilot. And that's what it was for me when I forgave my mother's killer. And I know why now. I know why, because Forgiveness wasn't just for me that day.
It was for so many people that were like, Man, if this guy and these families can forgive, how can I not? I've just seen so much good come from it. But I was upset then that my mom was no longer here, and I'm still upset that my mom won't see her grandsons play t-ball.
So I'll forever be upset. But I think angry and having anger and no, I don't feel that in my heart right now, and I haven't ever. I mean, was there a do you remember a process of walking through? Like you said, the anger to the forgiveness was it instantaneous or did it take a while? And what was that like?
No, man. I think, you know, when I first lost my mom, we didn't know that she was killed because of the color of her skin. We just knew that a guy walked in and did that, right? It was just a mass shooting. We didn't know why the mass shooting happened.
And so I was just devastated that my mom was gone. I thought it was just, you know, a mass shooting that happened. I didn't know the reasoning behind it or nothing like that. I immediately looked at my brother and sister and said, man, You know, our mom is who feeds us. What are we about to do?
I have no idea. I didn't know anything about car insurance, didn't know anything about health care. I didn't know anything. I was, you know, blessed to have a mom that took care of all that stuff. And so I didn't know.
And so immediately I'm trying to figure out, well, You know, how are you eating on Tuesday night? Who's driving to school for the next, you know, five years? Like, what's going to happen? And so, that's what the process was for me initially. That when things died down, the media went away, and all that stuff happened.
Then, I was able to sit down and think, man, my mom is really killed because she's black. That's a terrible way for somebody to go. And I'm so grateful that in that time, I think God was molding me. Um, because me personally, man, if it was just up to me, I would have been like, Hey, this happened, I want to play my sport, and that's it. But God had other plans for me.
And I didn't see that at the time, but I see that now. And the process for me with forgiveness is simple. I think you got to say it out loud. I forgive Dylan Roof. I forgive him from taking my mother's life.
And I think there's got to be something on the other side of that forgiveness. Right, as a believer, there's something on the other side of salvation for us. When we die, we, you know, there's eternal life. And so, for me, on the other side of forgiveness, I think, man, now I don't have to think every single young white male is racist. That's on the other side of forgiveness for me.
On the other side, is now I don't have to be nervous when I walk into a room and I can have the door behind me and not be scared on the other side of forgiveness.
So, there's got to be something on the other side of it when you talk about the process of it. But initially, man, God put it on my heart. I'd be giving myself way too much credit saying I did this and that and processing it. No, God put it on my heart that happened, and now I know why. One of the questions we get most often this time of year is: What study should we do with our small group?
I thought you were going to say, Who's going to win the Super Bowl? No, I wasn't going to say that. And honestly, if you haven't done the new art of marriage, and I said it's a new art of marriage, it's been like refreshed, redone, and it is awesome. You should do it. Give it a shot.
Yeah, you can do the art of marriage. And if you want, maybe you want to do a parenting study. We have the art of parenting or vertical marriage. They're all video studies and workbooks, and they're on sale right now through the end of August. 25% off.
That's a deal. I like sales. Me too.
So go to familylife.com/slash shop. Pick out whichever small group study you want to do and go watch God work in your life and even more importantly, in the lives of those that you're leading. Familylife.com/slash shop. I'm listening to you thinking, man, this faith. You're 18 years old and yet you had this foundational faith.
How did that come about? Yeah, I was raised in the church, but you know, being raised in the church doesn't mean anything. It just means you don't got a choice. That's what that means, right? And so I went to church like any other kid would.
But, you know, I say there's a crossroads. When you go through something really tough, especially when your mom is murdered while she's praying, right? Praying in church. Yeah, in Bible study. You can say, hey, my mom's murdered in church.
There's no way God is real. You could say that, or you could say, God, I don't know how in the world this happened or why it happened, but I know only you can get me through it. And I went with the latter. And because I've gone with the ladder, that's where my faith has been strengthened tenfold. And I'm super practical about things because.
You know, if your mom is murdered while she's praying, you could say, man, Chris, how could she? You know, be killed if she's praying to the God that you serve. Right. I said, God, I don't know how. I don't know why, but I know only you can get me through this mess.
And God has come through time and time after again.
So. I think my faith is definitely strengthened after it. I used to read my mother's Bibles. She used to read from cover to cover. She was one of those types of people, right?
Every year, read cover to cover, and she would highlight things. For me, finally reading the Bible by myself, not just, you know, trusting my pastor to do it or my mom to do it. Me reading myself, I would read her Bibles. And in reading those scriptures, that's when I found my faith. Not just relying on my mom or my pastor, but I found a relationship for myself.
I mean, was there ever a moment where you, you know, struggled with the how in the world? Does my mom or anybody? Go to a church, sit in a Bible study, pray, and lose their life. Did you ever struggle with God, what are you doing? Or did your siblings?
I never struggle with the how because I think, you know, there's obviously good in the world, but there's some real bad in the world, unfortunately, right? There's some people that want to do evil things. And I realize that we have the gift of free will.
So some people are going to use it and it's going to be a curse. And so I never struggle with the how, but I always struggle with the why. Like, why, you know, why did my mom have to go? Yeah. You know, the person that would love everybody.
You know, she was a track coach, would take you home from school after practice and say, hey, did you get a meal? If not, let's go to, you know, Wendy's or Hardy's or something real quick.
So I struggle with the, you know, why? Why, my mom? As far as my faith, I'm so grateful that I didn't go the other way. But you know, my brother had a point in time where he said, Chris, you know, man, I see you're real, you're real strong in your faith, man. But come on now.
Come on now. Mom's praying, and that's the same God that you're praying to. You know, so he really struggled with that for a while. And I struggled with it being Big Brother. I said, Man, if my brother gets in a car accident, I don't know where he's going right now.
You know what I'm saying? And so I really struggled with that. But there was a guy who was the chaplain for the Patriots. He said, Chris, don't push him right now. You push him right now.
He's never coming back. But he definitely had that struggle with, you know, man, Chris. I understand your faith has been strengthened because of it, but you know, mom was praying and she got killed, so it's tough for me to believe. He definitely had that. I'm interested, like, when you called your basketball coach.
What did he say to you? This is a guy that has been there through everything for me. He's actually, I always say this, he's actually the first white person ever heard say, I love you to me. And he truly meant it too. He poured into us.
And we still have that relationship to this day. But talking to him, it was all about encouragement.
Sometimes it's not about what you say, but it's about being able to pick up the phone and just hear somebody's voice. And even today, I'll text him every now and then, just say, hey, thank you for all you've done for me in my life. And he's always like, man, I love you, Chris.
So we still have that relationship. But being present sometimes is more important than figuring out the right words to say.
Some people ask me, what should I say to this person?
Sometimes the words aren't going to cut it, but just being there lets them know that, hey, you care about them.
So you were, you know, still in college at the time, right? Yep.
So. Help us understand. You're actually going back to school and playing baseball. I know, Dave. I'm still worried about how did your brother and sister get to school and how did they get fed?
Because your dad was CSAW. He just wasn't part of the he, you know, he struggled, man. He, I would say, in my mind, my dad struggled with alcohol pretty bad.
So in my mind, I said, man, this is going to get my dad back on track, man. You know, losing my mom, he's got no choice but to step up to the plate. It'd be a wake-up call. You know, it'd be a wake-up call, is what I was thinking. But nah, it was too much for him.
He was really sick. And so my aunt, she actually stepped into the plate and they moved with my aunt for a year. And it was rough for them. They didn't want to be in Atlanta. They wanted to be in Charleston where we're from.
And so for about a year, year and a half, they lived there until I got drafted by the Cubs. And my whole college career after that was, hey, I'm going to make my mom proud. You know, she was always the baseball mom. I'm going to get drafted for my mom. You know, I always have this hashtag.
It says, can't let moms down. Every post that I make says, can't let moms down. That was my goal. Being an athlete in college, all I wanted to do is just play sports. I would get all the interviews.
Hey, Chris, you want to do this, do that? You know, I'll do it, but baseball is my thing. That's what I do. And that's how life was for a couple of years after I lost my mom.
So tell us about, you know, you get drafted, you're playing baseball, you're married. Yep, married. And do you have any kids at home at that time? Did you hear the minor leagues? I did, yeah.
I had my little man, C.J., Chris Jr.
So he's at home. You're on the road, you know, trying to make it to the bigs. Yeah. You're not playing baseball now. No.
Walk us through the end of that. I always say anybody that is married to an athlete, they got to be superwoman because, you know, you're gone a lot. Yeah. I was gone seven months out of the year. And at home, it's not just our son.
It's my little brother and my little sister. They lived with you. They lived with me. Yeah. They lived with us.
And so my wife is literally like Superwoman. Your wife is Superwoman. Did you have your brother and sister living with your wife? As soon as you got married, did they come to live with you? And yeah, and we're 21.
We're 20. We might be 20. We might be 20 at the time. And they're teenagers.
So we're like. You know, it's hard, but we got through it. Let's just say that. I'm guessing you got a phone call or two from your wife. Oh, my goodness.
Yeah, I got the phone calls. Hey, Chris, this happened, that happened. And I'm always trying to be man in the middle. Hey, you know, let's just love everybody.
Okay.
So I got those. But, you know, I was chasing my dream playing baseball. Played a couple of seasons. First time ever going to a therapist was when I was playing in the minor leagues because I struggled with my sport. You know, everybody's like, oh, Chris, you know, you're letting your sport get you down, man.
You've been through so much. You know, you've been through all this and you're letting baseball hurt you. And I was saying, man, baseball has been the one thing that I could, you know, have an escape from all the stuff I was going through. And when I wasn't having the success, it was tough for me, man. Mentally, I started seeing a therapist.
It was free therapy, which was super eye-opening for me. I went for about a year. And then I ultimately, in 2019, I got released by the Cubs, and I knew exactly what I wanted to do. I was speaking in the offseason, I was getting opportunities. And so when I got released, I immediately made a social media post: hey, I'm done playing ball, but I'm going to continue this mission of teaching love, teaching how we can come together in practical ways.
So that's what I started to do, and God has blessed it ever since.
So you've been doing, you said earlier, 150 or so engagements a year. Tone that down about a hundred, to be honest with you, coming up pretty soon. But uh me and my wife actually sit down every year. We talk about how many days I can be gone.
So we sit well, I'm going a couple strip in December and we'll say, you know, Baby, how many days are you thinking this year? Um and so I I want to make sure that I don't become a public success and private failure. One of my favorite mentors, Inky Johnson, said that. And that stuck with me. I never want to become a person where I'm speaking on a stage one day, and somebody asked my wife, she's like, oh man, Chris is a great guy.
And my biggest fear is that she says, well, no, he's not. Maybe he's a good guy to you. But he's not going to get a guy to us. That's a fear that I have. I have nightmares about that.
So I will never let that happen. Yeah, I always say, you know, when a guy says to me, and this happened hundreds of times, you know, and his wife's standing right beside him, and he says something like this: God's number one in my life, my wife and my family's number two, and my job's number three. I never look at the guy, I always look at his wife. Yeah, that's right. You know, when he's saying that, it's like her face, her countenance will tell you this is true.
Like, she'll be smiling and like, yeah, or she'll be like, looking off or even maybe Rolling her eyes like, yeah, he's saying that, but it's not real.
So you're saying It's really your wife that determines. If your marriage is good, absolutely, man. And everybody says the cliche answer: hey, why do you do what you do? Oh, my family. Everybody says that, right?
But you know, being gone 150 days a year, I'm not with my family a lot. And so for me, I always say, hey, baby, this is the mission. And if she didn't see fruit from that mission, she'd be like, uh-uh, you staying home. But I take screenshots of every DM that I get from somebody saying, Chris, what you did today changed my heart. What you did today, you know, makes me think I can keep going.
And so I'll save all those so she knows: hey, he's not out there twiddling his thumbs. He's trying to do the good work. And she believes in my message and my mission.
So I was going to say, you can't do it without her either. Like, you guys are a great team. You're in a team ministry. And I love that you're sending those to her because you're saying, look what we are doing for the kingdom and for unity in the body. I love it.
Well, what a journey we've had today with Chris Singleton. And again, his book is called Your Life Matters. It's a kid's book. And you can get your copy by clicking the link in the show notes at familylifetoday.com. And we're going to have Chris back with us tomorrow.
Our vision at Family Life is every home a godly home, and we need your help to get there. And when you become a Family Life partner, your monthly support makes that vision actually possible. And you can go to FamilyLifetoday.com and read more about it and become a partner. Just click the donate button at the top. And again, you can go to FamilyLifetoday.com.
Audio clips at the beginning of today's episode came from Charleston County Government and Voice of America. Family Life Today is a donor-supported production of Family Life, a crew ministry, celebrating 50 years of helping you pursue the relationships that matter most. Yeah.
