This episode is supported in part by the Christian Standard Bible, a translation designed to be faithful to the original text and clear for everyday readers. And we're just grateful for their partnership in helping bring gospel-centered content to families like yours. And to learn more about the CSB, visit csbible.com. Hi. Trisha and I celebrate Our 10-year anniversary, the church is turning three years old as well.
We had just raised a million dollars to buy the building that we were meeting in. Just so much momentum and so much belief that God was in this vision. And we go on this cruise. To celebrate our 10-year anniversary, and we're just in a really dark place. We have become really good ministry partners and really toxic marriage partners.
Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Dave Wilson. And I'm Ann Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifetoday.com. This is Family Life today. We have Justin and Trish Davis back on Family Life Today.
I did not know you were on Family Life Today before we were the hosts. Absolutely. You guys must be really old. That must be old. It is true.
We claim that now. No. Do you remember what year it was? It was 2013.
So we were actually with Dennis Rainey in Arkansas. Yeah, it's great to be with you guys in Florida. Yes, it is. Yeah, we think Florida is pretty cool.
Well, we were just talking before we started recording that you guys, we feel like when we've heard your story, like you, they are us. Like, they are us. I literally was watching you on YouTube and I didn't know the rest of your story.
So I just heard the first part and I and I said, Dan, I go, this is like our story. You know, we thought marriage would be great. It was terrible. We hate each other. We're trying to change each other.
I'm like, this is us. And then there's layers. And layers. Like, we feel so much better about it. That's it.
Yeah. Like, fell down the cliff.
So, we're like, they have more stuff than we do. How is this even possible?
So, we say that, you know, once you get to know the Davises, if you're not inspired, you'll just feel better about yourself. That is something that we, you know, know will happen.
So, tell us, we thought we'd start with a fun little question.
Okay. See if you know each other very well. All right. The question would be: Justin, you have to tell us what Trisha's shampoo is. And Trisha, you got to tell us what Justin's favorite restaurant is.
Her shampoo is a Veda. It's true. Hey, I think that's yours. I was like trying to come up with a name, driving it in. I'm like, it's a fancy shampoo that she earns points.
With and so I get really excited when I get my shampoo.
So that's why he knows. I'm like, it's shampooed. See, it's very impressive because you don't have hair. It's true. Which means you don't use that shampoo and you still know what it is.
Yeah. Yeah. What she's saying is, you're a better man than me. That's what I just heard. I know.
Because I have no idea. What's yours? I use a whole bunch of stuff. That's what I thought.
Okay. I've got like four. I mean, they're all over the shower, everywhere. There's more than eight bottles. There's all kinds of stuff.
There is. Options open. That's right. But you do. That's pretty.
Do you know his restaurant? That is hard, see? It could be a restaurant, it could be fast.
Okay, wait, let's do. We're we'll do two.
Okay. What's his go-to if you're gonna go out and do some like good eating? Like something good. And then what's his fast food? Like something quick.
Fast food is definitely Raising Canes. Oh, Ramium is scoping it out. We dashed that to the hotel last night. I was going to say, we got him down here. I feel like I haven't had much of that.
That is chicken. It is chicken. And it's good. It's only chicken. Yeah, it's only chicken.
I don't want to be blasphemous against Chick-fil-A. I don't consider them in the same Chick-fil-A would be probably better fries. I like the Chick-fil-A fries and better tea. Oh, you are? The chicken strips from Raising Canes.
Oh. They're a whole other level. Come on. Yeah. We have to try it.
Maybe we can get them to sponsor us. Do you want to share your real favorite place that may be slightly embarrassing? Or do you want me to go like this? Maybe embarrassing. I love the Justinari nose.
Obsessed with Texas Roadhouse. I know that place too. I do too. You want to go tonight? My kids make fun of me because I have the app.
You can order to go. It's right by our house. I go pick it up. And you took. Baby Zeke there on Sunday.
We're very excited. We went to Texas Roadhouse for the first time. He's the peanuts. Yeah, he's two months old. You know, somebody that's really a foodie, they just gone, eh, he's not a foodie if it's Texas Roadhouse.
But I'm telling you, that's one of our favorites. Oh, yeah. It's not the best place for a steak, but it's pretty good. I mean, it's like $14.99. You know what I mean?
Like, I'm like, I can't go to Costco and get a steak. I get a whole meal for $14.99. I know. Yeah, that's something that has been true about our whole entire marriage. It will never change.
People have tried to change me as my kids have gotten older, but I am a horrible cook. Like, I have gifts. That is not one of them. You put me in a hoarder's house and I can, I'll make it beautiful. I open up the pantry and it's like, do you guys eat that a lot?
We do. Who's the one who's the first to say, let's go here? When you say, Hey, we're going out tonight, who usually picks? Oh, it's only because you say, I don't care, just pick something. Because I will say, fight, fight, fight.
Here we go. I'll say, Hey, do you want to go? I'm not feeling that. What about I'm not feeling that? I'm like, Why don't you just, where do you want to go?
Yeah, so I'm off human garbage disposal. I'll eat anything.
So I don't really. But I do have this weird quirk about me that I don't like sitting. I'm like, what is wrong with me? Justin and I grew up very low income.
So like we didn't grow up even going to fast food. Like that was so I don't know what has happened to me, but I don't like sitting next to the kitchen. Oh. It's like a noise thing. I know.
So I will say, I am weird in that it's not even about the food. It's about where I'm sitting.
So that's fun. Wow.
Somehow we got to transition from that to marriage. How did we end up with marriage? It gets weird to see everybody.
So you do have, we've hinted at it, this story. Yeah. So tell our listeners and people watching on YouTube: what's the story? I mean, you've told it many, many times. I've watched you, I've listened to you.
So take us through your journey. It's pretty epic. Yeah, it is.
Well, we met in 1993. Tricia and I went to the same Bible college in central Illinois. And I like to. Were we allowed to date and hold hands at that Bible college? It was.
It was conservative, but not that conservative. She could wear pants. She didn't have to wear skirts, which was nice. But she was a freshman. I was a junior.
And I tell people all the time, I loved me. I wanted her to love me. But we really. That's why you're like, so I was the same way. Yeah, you were.
I like how Tricia said it's true. It was home at first sight for me. I don't know why she took so long to catch on. But we met, and after we fell in love, we fell in love with not just this idea that God would use us in our marriage, but God would use us to change the world.
So you're both believers. Did you grow up in homes that were Christian homes? Yeah, I mean, we grew up the only thing that was the same growing up is we grew up lower income, but I grew up just south of Chicago in a city called Joliet, Illinois. Super diverse. And, you know, I grew up with crime and gang membership was normal in my high school.
It was very multicultural.
So I was kind of in my own bubble and how I grew up in the way that the world worked. And the way you viewed the world, probably. The way I viewed the world, yeah. And so my parents didn't know Jesus growing up and they kind of had their own really hard story. My mom lost her dad when she was in eighth grade and then her mom died two years later.
Wow.
And so she was separated from family. And then my dad is Hispanic and grew up in a family that was split, you know, regionally.
So like his dad. Left the country, and I'm not really sure like when he went back. And so, there was a lot of we struggled to stay in our homes. Like, there was a lot of things that my family struggled with, but I had no idea. I felt, you know, very loved and secure in my family.
I have an older sister, a younger brother. And so, all of that was going on, but I grew up felt very loved, and there was a confidence in that love. My dad didn't make it past the eighth grade, so like going to college wasn't like. Yay, you. It was like, what are you doing?
Why are you leaving? And so when I met Justin, there was such a cultural shift. I was at this small little Bible college in the middle of nowhere. And then I meet Justin, who in my mind kind of represented this new culture. And I was very defensive because I was so fearful of like really not knowing how this new world works.
Worked. And so when we fell in love. Really, with Jesus, like my upbringing, we went to church, but my family was not. Um, I wouldn't say they were like ministry forward that they ever spoke that into us. And so, meeting Justin was like this new beginning with God, and even you know, new beginning in our entire life to say we could literally change the world by telling people about Jesus.
And I love that you both were on that same page, like, we could change the world together. Yeah, when I, when Trish and I actually started dating before we started dating, I was doing a weekend youth ministry, and so you know, I would drive you know, two hours to this little country church, and I would go in on Saturday, and then we'd do you know, children's church on Sunday morning, and then Sunday school, and then I would stay and do youth group on Sunday night and then drive back to school.
Well, I would go in and I would do the lesson, and Trish would do special music. She was a vocalist, and so I'm like, man, we're a power couple. You can sing, I can preach. And so, that was really kind of how our ministry relationship started to, you know, to build is just allowing our giftedness and how God had wired us to complement one another. And so when we got married in 1995, going on our honeymoon was the second vacation that either of us had ever been on.
I mean, that's how poor we were. And so just talking about restaurants, like. The only time I ever remember sitting down at a restaurant growing up was after a funeral. Wow.
Like we never went out to eat. Suzzler. Suzzler. Oh, I remember Suzzler. Suzzler.
Yeah. So it was one of those things where having a college degree. Getting a full-time salary. Like my dad was a machinist. He worked on an hourly basis my whole life.
And so we always struggled financially. We were always borrowing money from my grandma. We lived in I mean, I moved 17 times from the time I was in kindergarten until I graduated high school. And so, just there was such an insecurity and such a feeling of scarcity that I just constantly had. And so, you know, going into youth ministry, making the big bucks really helped solve that.
No, but we had this vision, right? That God was going to use us to change the world. And so I think we had a belief that if we just love God and love each other, life's going to go up into the right. And so, you know, we spent the first seven years of our marriage in youth ministry and then. Felt like God had laid on our heart this vision to plant a church for people who didn't go to church.
And I was 28 at the time. We had two kids at the time. And Trisha just found out that she was pregnant with our third child. As a mom, Have you ever lost your temper and thought, wow, how did that escalate so fast? Because mom anger usually isn't just about the spilled milk or sibling arguments and that gets you angry, but there's often something deeper going on.
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So you can sign up today at familylife.com slash mom anger. Again, that's familylife.com slash mom anger. We had no idea how to start a church, and so we just sold everything that we owned. We had a family that had paid our deposit in our first three months' rent at this apartment complex. We had $5,000 to our name, which means we didn't own a lot of stuff.
And it sounds kind of sad, but our kids were. How old were the boys when we planted?
Well, you were pregnant with Isaiah, who's 22 now. But Micah was eight and six, I think, or maybe eight. We've got around there. But what they remember about us moving into this apartment is we put them in the master bedroom and it had a garden tub. And they had never seen a garden tub before.
And so they thought that we had moved to this magical place because it had a pool in the bathroom. Wow.
Like, we are the richest kid. Yeah. So, like, even our kids in this process, that seems like we were giving up so much in our minds. And I think for you guys, probably as well, the season when we were planting. Culturally, it was completely different.
We didn't have social media. Our friends who were planning in a church in another city or state, they could have 500 people. You had no idea. And so, when you had 50 people and you had 25 last week, it was easy to find wins within your community and feel whole in it.
So, there was just, it was just a season of, You know, back then, 80% of church plants failed.
So the fact that our church wasn't just like, it was thriving and it was this amazing experience. And so it was, it was hard work, but it was probably the happiest we had ever been in my mind. in ministry But that didn't equate into a healthy marriage. And that was very... It threw us.
Like it didn't make sense to the formula that Bible College taught us: that if you love God and you have a good ministry, then having good ministry will give you. Everything else relationally, and that wasn't true. Yeah. And I think just the pressure of church planning and pastoring, my character was not as developed as my giftedness. And so I spent a lot of time reading leadership books and trying to grow in my skills and abilities, but I never really took the time to develop.
A deeper character. And so, as the ministry grew and the pressure grew, there began to be cracks in the foundation of my faith. And then cracks in our relationship that began to rise to the surface. And so, I mean, that right there. That's a big deal.
Not only in ministry, but in life, because you get married a lot of times. You're struggling, you have kids, you're exhausted, you're trying to make money for your families, and so you're just. That whole thing of your character, who thinks about that? You're going to church, whether you're in ministry or not, but. I don't think we even had that thought about character back in the day.
We love Jesus. We're going to serve him. I don't know about my character or my past trauma or any of that. Do you feel like that? Yeah, I mean, what you described, I think, is even the current church.
You know, you get a gifted leader or two. You have a good band, good vocalists, you can grow a church. I hate to say that, but I was a, I saw it happen. And so, I mean, character obviously is really important, but to the average church attender, if they like the sermon and they feel like it was a good day, They're not asking too many questions about the character of the leader.
So sad, which is true in marriage as well. It's like, yeah, are we happy?
Okay, we're happy. And there could be this secret life going on. Eventually, you know, it's going to come out. Whatever you're playing with in the dark will come out in the light eventually.
So, Justin, when you talk about character, what are you talking about?
Well, I mean, it was, you know, little things, you know, exaggeration or just a feeling of inadequacy that I would project confidence or project that things were better than they really were. It wasn't um malicious deception. Right. It was little things That were either kept. From Trish or from the board or from the elders, there was a belief that if Trish really knew me, She wouldn't love me.
And so I can't really share the real parts or the real struggles that I'm going through because. I'm trying to protect her. And so it there was a belief that I was actually helping our relationship by not being fully honest or fully known. And the word intimacy means to be fully known. And any time we compromise truth in a relationship.
We place a lid on the amount of intimacy that relationship is capable of experiencing. And I just, I did the same thing in my relationship with God. I would compartmentalize my life, even as a pastor, and I would think.
Well, I just need to read the Bible more. I just need to pray more. Or I just need to I use spiritual disciplines almost as Tylenol and to treat the symptoms of the issues that I had rather than. Allowing God to say, okay, search my heart and know me. I was looking at the fruit rather than the root of some of the things that I was struggling with.
And so Trisha and I celebrate. Our 10-year anniversary. The church is turning three years old as well. We had just gone through a capital campaign. This is 2000.
Those are always fun. Oh, yeah. This is 2005. We had just raised a million dollars to buy the building that we were meeting in. Church was running about 700 people at the time.
Average age was about 28. Just so much momentum and so much belief that God was in this vision. And we go on this cruise. to celebrate our ten-year anniversary and we're just in a really dark place. We had become really good ministry partners and really toxic marriage partners.
Yeah. Well, and I well, I say maybe this is like a Midwest thing, but what we've come to recognize, I think even in American culture, we kind of look to the next thing. And back then, it was like the only thing left, right? Because we had success here, we had success here was We're tired and we just we just need a break.
So, you know, we just looked to the next milestone, like, or the next achievement. And that was like, okay, we just need to achieve some rest. And so we go on this cruise, we have a great time. And then when we step off the cruise, we step right back into the dysfunctional relationship cycles.
So, but when you were in the cruise, you got along okay. All of that was fine. Yeah, I mean, we started out. I kind of wanted my own room, but I think part of that too was because our kids were young. And so, no, it was, it was a rough go.
This was in 2005.
So, you know, the internet isn't what it was then.
So, I don't think, I mean, if you had it, you had to pay for it.
So, nobody had access to us. Like, nobody was showing up in a little boat to say, Hey, can you, you know? Yeah. And so it was very, we like were detoxing from. Ministry as well, but we didn't know it.
So we didn't have any of that understanding. We just knew that we were having fun. That we were excited to sleep through the night and we were excited that nobody needed us and we didn't need to be on a schedule. But you didn't go deep. No.
No. Did you ever go deep? About three months later, when everything imploded.
Okay, go there. Yeah, so we came back from the cruise and, you know, as Trish said, stepped right back into the same dysfunctional communication, conflict resolution. All of the things that plagued us before were now just more intensified because falls kicking off and we got to get the thing going. And so I came home from church in October of 2005 and Trisha was laying down for an afternoon nap, and I said, Hey, we need to have a conversation. And she said, Okay, about what?
And I said, About us. And she said, Well, what about us? And I just said, I'm done. And she said, you're done with what? And I said, I'm done with you.
Like I don't want to be married to you anymore. I don't want to be in ministry anymore. I'm having an affair. It's with your best friend. I want to be with her.
And you know, even 20 plus years later, I wish it was a confession of remorse and I wish it was a confession of repentance. It was just a confession of resignation. And I think, you know, if you you've had any relationship, you know how you can get in this pattern where you give and you give and you give to a relationship and what you think should be given in return isn't reciprocated. And a sense of entitlement begins to live in your heart and that person can never repay you all that you think they owe. And that's where I was, you know, 10 years ago.
And you're blaming the other person. Yeah. She's not going to be the wife I felt like I deserved, and so I'm done. I mean, how did you get to? I mean, you just laid a bomb.
Yeah. Kaboom, our listeners are still like, wait, wait, wait, did I hear that? They're probably rewinding. You guys had fun. What?
And you just preached? I did finish that day on Healthy relationships was the title of the message. Come on. So, what was it about that day that you said today's the day? I just have to say this.
This relationship had been going on for a few months, and I wasn't going to cover it up anymore. I wasn't going to play the game or the charade anymore. And so we kind of, I can't explain it. It's like. I knew but I didn't know.
Like you knew something was up. I knew something was up. Did you not want to know? I don't know. You know, I think there's something on the psychology side of it of what your brain does to protect your heart.
And I do remember. Going the day before I was leading worship, and I went and got a brand new outfit with money we didn't have. And I'm kind of a, it's weird for what I do for a living, but I'm actually really camera shy and I'm more shy in that. But, you know, that's another thing.
So that's not like me to go, I'm going to make myself stick out and I'm going to look beautiful. But when I walked in, people were like, Trish, you look amazing. And I was on a mission to make my husband see me. But He was the only one who didn't see me. And so I remember, you know, going up, we were in the school at this time.
And I came to go get on the stage and I saw them talking, and it was like I just my spirit, like them meaning your girlfriend, my best friend, and them talking. It's like people, you know, who get upset with the woman who's been through, you know, an abusive relationship. And that wasn't our relationship at that moment, but you're like, why don't you see? Or like watching a scary movie and you're like, girl, run, you know, it's like. I couldn't put two and two together, but after the service, her husband had.
And he had confronted Justin. And that's kind of when the rails were went. went off. We're ending this one on a cliffhanger, aren't we? There's a lot more to come, and I'm excited for.
You guys, to hear the rest, Justin and Tricia will be back with us tomorrow. Again, their book is called One Choice Away from Change: Break the Cycles That Hurt Your Relationships and Hold You Back. Justin and Tricia Davis. And you can go to familylifetoday.com and click on the link on the show notes there to get that book. But you got to come back tomorrow because there's a lot more coming.
There's so much. Come back and hear the rest of their story. Before we're done today, I just want to remind our listeners that our vision at Family Life is every home a godly home, and we need your help to get there. And when you become a family life partner, Your monthly support makes that vision actually possible. Yeah, you'll get access to exclusive updates and events and the chance to join our partners only online community.
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Yeah.
