This episode is supported in part by the Christian Standard Bible, a translation designed to be faithful to the original text and clear for everyday readers. We're grateful for their partnership and helping bring gospel-centered content to families like yours. To learn more about the CSB, visit csbible.com. I want the first voice I hear in the morning to be the voice of God in the scriptures. There is something so important for my soul that happened in those first moments of not rushing through God's word.
I try not to read God's word in a hurry. I want to linger over God's word. Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson. And I'm Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com.
This is Family Life Today.
So the Lent season is starting, and I was thinking about you, because you used to go to church on Easter. What do you remember the most about those Easter services as a kid growing up? I remember I had to go because mom said it's Easter. We're going to church, which she said every Sunday, which I didn't go.
So, yeah, I mean, it was a good thing for your mom. There were times I didn't want to go. But, you know, my single mom did a phenomenal job of bringing Jesus into my life. And I didn't even really know it or appreciate it. But I do remember sitting there, even, you know, from a little boy to a teenager, not understanding the story.
Like, how does the resurrection of Jesus Christ mean anything to me and to our world right now? I just sat there and never could connect the dots. I think that's true for a lot of people, especially when they didn't grow up in the church. And you had a chance to sit down with David Mathis, who wrote the book, Rich Wounds. And I'm excited for our listeners to get to hear this conversation.
Yeah, because what David did is he connects the dots. I mean, his book, Rich Wounds, is all about the wounds of Christ and what that means for us, but also the triumph of Christ over the cross and the resurrection. David is the executive director of DesiringGod.org and a pastor of Cities Church in Minneapolis, also a husband, and it's got four kids as well. And I'm telling you what, you talk about a theologian who's going to dive deep into understanding not only the life and death, but also the resurrection of Christ. That's David.
So it was a great conversation. I'm excited for our listeners to hear it.
So tell us a little bit about your thinking as you were writing this book. I know it's, you know, the beginning of Lent. How are you hoping, dreaming? they would sort of use this book. I think, I may be wrong about this, but I wonder how many Christians have a real detailed sense of all the glory, all the beauty that there is to see in the person of Christ.
I think sometimes we can be content with pretty thin, canned, recycled messages about Jesus. Oh, I've heard of Jesus. I know about Jesus. but there is so much more to know and experience about Jesus than I think the typical Christian today often has from just from preaching or from reading in the gospels. Just this morning, I was reading in Genesis 45, Jacob's son, Joseph has been sold into slavery.
God's favor's on him. He blesses him. He comes through Potiphar's house. He comes through prison. He comes to Pharaoh and the brothers find out that this is Joseph.
Of course they're scared and they go back to tell Jacob, we have found your son. Joseph is alive and he's Lord over Egypt. This is Genesis 45, maybe verse six. And the narrative reports that Jacob was numb in heart and he did not believe them. And so I paused there and just thought this news that came to Jacob from his sons, that Joseph is alive is so good that he has a hard time believing it.
And so what do the brothers do. You know, if you tell somebody such good news that they're numb in heart and have a hard time believing it, what do you do next? And what the brothers do is they tell him all that Joseph had to say.
So when somebody gets such good news that they're numb in heart, they don't believe, what we do next is we keep telling them, give them more details. Like, I don't believe what you're saying. All right, well, let me give you some more details. Let me tell you more about it. And that's my hope in the book.
Let me tell you more about Jesus. Let me tell you more details about him. If we linger in the Gospels, and if we try to get some help from church history and people who have observed the life of Jesus through the scriptures in different times and places, there is so much more to learn and to glean and to marvel at about Jesus. Yeah, you know, as I was reading Rich Wounds, that's what happened to me. And I was going to say that's what happened to my soul.
It was the beauty. Again, I'm a pastor. I've been preaching on Easter for over 30 years in the death and the resurrection of Christ. I picked up your book, and I know I'm reading it before Easter, so not like reading it during Lent. But it was rich.
And of course, that's in your title, but it brought out the beauty of the life, death, and resurrection of Christ. And I didn't know, but I found out in the very beginning that even the title, I should have recognized it right away as a line from one of your favorite hymns, Crown Him With Many Crowns. And is it true that when you hear that song, your kids say, Dad, that's your favorite? They do. There's a couple.
I also love Jesus on my cross have taken which is like the epilogue or the conclusion of the book But it probably would have to be said that my favorite is crown him with many crowns Well you know I got a guitar here All right. And so our listeners aren't going to like this because I'm not, you know, I'm not Chris Tomlin or, you know, some professional artist.
So when I read that in your book that, you know, this is your hymn. And really the title Rich Wounds comes from a lion and crown him with many crowns. I can't remember the last time I sang that song. And so I pulled it up, got out my guitar, and was sitting there like, what are you doing? I'm going to sing this in our broadcast with David tomorrow.
This is my version. I just made up this pretty little thing. And trust me, listeners, I won't do the whole song, okay? But I want to get to the line that really inspired this book. Crown Him the Lord of love Behold His hands and sides Rich wounds yet visible Above Him beauty glorified No angels in the sky Can't fully bear that sign But downward bends head burning I have mystery so bright But let's talk about that line, rich wounds yet visible above and beauty glorified.
That's the title of the book. What is it about that phrase, that idea that hit you, that when you hear the song, your kids are saying, Dad, it's your favorite. What is it that you wanted to draw out of that? I don't know that it's a song that's been especially in vogue in the recent wave of worship music and what you'll hear at a big conference. And I grew up with this hymn in Spartanburg, South Carolina, in my Southern Baptist church.
And then in moving to Minnesota and being in other churches for years, there was a gap there where I didn't hear it for a long time. And just recently, we've brought it back at our church. And so there's some profundity to the song in several dimensions. One is gratitude for what I was raised in, you know, now to sing and appreciate these truths in some fresh way. But that relates to that phrase, rich wounds.
wounds is a word that is probably being used more today than it was 10, 20 years ago. That word has not passed out of usage. Yeah. We talk a lot about our wounds. And often it's not the physical wounds that we're talking about.
We're talking about some emotional, psychological. Father wound. Yes. Wounds of our past, our family.
Some trauma, the way that we've been emotionally wounded or whatever it would be.
So there's a lot of talk about wounds today. And usually the connotations are very negative. We don't talk positively about wounds. And what's so remarkable about this phrase in the song, the adjective rich, that his wounds are rich. And because his wounds are the wounds by which you are healed.
He has carried our griefs and our sorrows. He was wounded not by some accident. He was not wounded because of his disobedience or of his sin. He was wounded because of ours. He carried our griefs.
He carried our wounds in his wounding. And so his wounds, because they are saving, because he rescues us with his wounds, his wounds to our eyes are glorious. They're marvelous wounds. They are rich wounds. And we might think, okay, when we get to heaven, any scars that we have will be gone because scars are, that's part of the old age and God will heal and get rid of all scars.
Well, the end of the gospels talk about some scars on the glorified resurrected body of Jesus that aren't gone. When he comes to doubting Thomas, you know, put your hands in my wounds. His scars are glorious to those whom he saved by his scars. I don't think that when we get to heaven and see Jesus face to face, the scars will be gone at that point. I think we will see glory in the scars forever.
The scars are a reminder of our richness. He became poor for our sakes, that in him, though poor, we might become rich because of his blessing, his favor, that we are rescued because of the sacrifice of himself evidenced in the wounds. Hey, friends, Ron Deal here, director of Family Life Blended. Did you know Blended and Blessed, the only worldwide live stream designed for couples and blended families, is free this year? Saturday, April 18th.
We're going to be live in Oklahoma City. If you show up there, we're going to charge you for lunch. But other than that, it is free. Free to live stream. Churches can bring a group of couples together and enjoy the day absolutely free.
Gayla Grace is going to be with us. Davey and Christy Blackburn. Cheryl Shoemake is going to be with us. Kathy Lipp and Brian Goins, our emcee. It's going to be a wonderful day.
I hope you can join us. Learn more and get the link in the show notes at familylifetoday.com. let's talk about the book being used during lent you know it's 40 days you've got 30 chapters obviously you don't need to read one every single day but um you know as i think about this and even the image i had of you in church with your kids you have four kids sitting beside you you know sort of remarking you about a hymn that you singing i thinking of a family going through this journey with rich wounds So how would a family walk through this What do you hope would happen as they walk through sort of 30 days of 40? Again, you don't have to read it every single day, which gives you some grace. But what are you hoping would happen as a father or a mother or a blended family walk through this and experience Lent and the rich wounds of Christ in their family?
Ideally, Christian families today would have a meaningful, deep, wonderful time of family gathering around God's word every single day of Lent and every single day of the year. Is that what happens in your house? No. We are so serious about Advent. I do hope there's a kind of realism in this.
Personally, the Bible reading plan that I've done for years is 25 days a month.
Now, that doesn't mean I intentionally take days off, but it is nice when life happens in a fallen world. You set yours up 25 days, so you have the grace? It's the Disciple Journal reading plan from the Navigators, and it's 25 days a month. And so you've got, if you stay on schedule, you've got some extra days to review or whatever. That's good.
My hope with this book, Lent is 40 non-Sundays plus the Sundays.
So depending on how you calculate it, Lent is about 46 to 47 days from Ash Wednesday until Easter Sunday. and maybe 30 meditations would be a good thing for you personally, for you in a small group, for you in a family. And then in particular, when you get down to the last eight days.
So me personally, I mark those last eight days from Palm Sunday to Easter Sunday with particular joy and vigilance. The last eight chapters in the book are meant to be that daily walk with Jesus from riding into Jerusalem on the donkey to the final conflicts with the false teachers, with the Pharisees, with the Sadducees, with the leaders in Jerusalem, to the Garden of Gethsemane, to Golgotha, to the waiting of the disciples on that long Saturday, and then to the joy of Easter Sunday.
So I would commend the readers, maybe if nailing it every day for you personally or your family is unrealistic, maybe you could nail Holy Week for eight days, And that would be a really good thing. Yeah. And so you've broken it up into three sections. I'd love to hear some of your thoughts on, you know, let's start with where you start with his life. What are you hoping that we glean out of these readings about the life of Christ?
That's right. There's the three sections leading up to that last part on Holy Week. Right. Section one about life. Section two about his death.
We linger there. Section three, the resurrection. And then Holy Week. And in that first section, there is so much to linger over in Jesus' life. And by that, my focus is on his life up until Holy Week.
So the gospel accounts are about around 50%, maybe a little less than 50%, but about half of the gospels deal with his last week.
So you see the import and the weight of the last week of Jesus' life from Palm Sunday to resurrection and ascension. but that leaves about half the gospels that are telling us accounts, precious, glorious accounts. There are glories to see about Jesus in this 50 plus percent of the gospels that are about his life and ministry. What I do in that first part is linger over some of those often overlooked glories and try to see the kinds of things that are there for us from God through the apostles in the gospels and enrich our appreciation of Jesus' life. He didn't just come and go straight to the cross.
He came and lived, and this is amazing, 30 years plus in obscurity in Nazareth. People in the first century didn't even know what Nazareth was. It was such a small town. He lived all that time, God himself among us, living in obscurity. You don't have to be famous to have a fulfilling human life.
God himself shows it. And then his three plus years of ministry at the end, And the gleanings in this book are particular to his season of ministry. I've rehearsed there some themes maybe often overlooked, like Jesus' own personal habits of devotion. Yeah, that's where you start. I found that, again, like you said, the places you went, I didn't see coming.
And it was really interesting as you start with his habits, his time alone with God. I was challenged myself to think, I mean, I read, Jesus didn't just retreat, but invited his disciples to join him. And so at the end of each little section, you sort of challenge us as the reader and today as the listener to say, okay, what are you doing with your time alone with God? How would you encourage followers, believers to captivate or to energize that time we get to spend alone with God, modeling after Christ? An amazing thing to observe in Jesus' life is his pattern of retreat and then re-entry into the world.
I mean, once you see the theme in the gospels, you see it all over. When Jesus, he retreats from the situation, the crowds are coming around. Or for instance, that first day in Capernaum, when he heals Peter's mother-in-law, and they're bringing all the people in to be healed by him. And they go to sleep, you know, that night, like, this is the best night of Peter's life. Jesus is in Peter's hometown.
The crowds are swirling. Everybody's excited. And they wake up the next morning and they can't find Jesus. Peter must have flipped. Like, where is he?
You know, my hometown is outside the door waiting to be healed, waiting to hear his message. And Jesus has retreated to a time of prayer. And over and over again, we see in the gospels that it's some of the most chaotic times.
Sometimes when the crowds are biggest, Jesus gets a way to prioritize meeting one-on-one, face-to-face with his father. And he also draws the disciples into that rhythm. A couple of big themes we also see in Jesus' life is he is a man who has memorized and is saturated in God's word. And so again and again Jesus quotes scripture You know have you not heard Or what do you do about the passage of the bush when he says I am the God of Abraham Isaac and Jacob He reasons with the scriptures when he confronts his enemies. He quotes and alludes to the scriptures as he teaches his friends.
And so you observe a kind of scripture saturation in the life of Jesus that is very significant and should be an encouragement to us today. I don't know what your daily life looks like back in Minnesota. You're a husband, you're a dad, you've got kids. What does that look like in terms of your habits as a husband and dad, time alone with God, time in the word? Give us a glimpse into your life.
Like you're leading a family, you're in ministry. How do you live this out? Over the years. I'm putting you right on the spot. Like, dude, you better be living this out, right?
I don't mind exactly. I did a book on this a few years ago called Habits of Grace, where I tried to be a little bit personally revealing as well as talk to people about it. I don't mind talking about this very private thing. It's a risk. I get it.
Well, I asked you the question knowing you're going to have an answer. It isn't going to be, well, actually I don't. I mean, cause you know, our kids are watching. Yes, that's right. Our wives are watching.
The community's watching. It's like, it's one thing to know and talk about the life of Christ. Do we live it out?
So what's that look like in terms of rhythms and habits in your life? First thing in the morning is so important and so precious.
So I found over the years, I don't need as much sleep as my wife. That's an opportunity, at least for me as a dad. It starts with getting myself to bed on time and not letting some screen keep me up longer than it should. And then waking up in the morning, I want the first voice I hear in the morning to be the voice of God in the scriptures.
So I set my alarm to get out of bed before my typical kid's rising time. And I make a beeline to my Bible and coffee. Do you?
So I got a hot cup of coffee and I got my Bible open. And those are some of the most precious moments of my day. I don't want to minimize the preciousness of my time with my wife or my kids or what God's called me to do in the rest of the day. But there is something so important for my soul that happens in those first moments of not rushing through God's word. I try not to read God's word in a hurry.
I want to linger over God's word. So the Bible itself talks about meditation. Psalm 1, he meditates on the law of the Lord day and night. And meditation is at least this, a kind of slow reading at the pace of the text.
So in the hurry of modern life, probably the single most important thing I do to hold back the tides of hurry and rush is to have unhurried time in God's word in the morning. And I want to linger over what he's had to say. I referenced a few minutes ago my Bible reading plan I've done for 20 years now that I just love. I've fallen into the habit of using this Bible reading plan. There's four different places in Scripture.
And I just take my time lingering over those passages. It takes about 70 hours to read the Bible, cover to cover, which is less time than the average American spends in front of the television in a month. Not counting screens. Yeah, that's right. If you just count screens, that is an eight or nine hour a day average.
very quickly, talking 10 days, and you could have read the Bible in that time, right? Yeah. If you take texts that you could read in about 15 minutes and spend 30, 35, even 40 minutes working through them slowly, meditating on those texts, praying them back to God as you receive them from God, from his own voice by the power of the Spirit in the Scripture, it will change your life and change your day. It gets the day off to the right start. I want to start my day with the voice of God.
You know, when Christmas comes and Easter comes, at least for a mom, these are such busy times that it's hard sometimes to remember, this is what we're talking about. This is what we're celebrating the death and resurrection of Jesus. And I like when we get these devotionals, they can really draw us back in and remember how important these holidays are. Yeah, and it's a 30-day devotional that David Mathis wrote. It's called Rich Wounds that we just have had a conversation about.
But I don't know about you, but I need more than a day or two. Me too. You know, it's like a journey. And this is a 30-day journey to reflect on Jesus' life, death, and victory. and you can find it at familylifetoday.com.
Just click on the link in the show notes and I'd say start the journey. And even start talking about it with your family if you still have kids in the house. Kind of talk through it in that 30-day journey. If you don't read it, the devotional with them, read it and then underline these things that I could talk to my kids about. Maybe just a few sentences like, guys, here's what's happening this week when you're reading the Bible and Good Friday's coming.
like this is what's happening. It just gets your heart connected with Jesus. Again, you can find it at familylifetoday.com. Just click on the link in the show notes. We know life is full of challenges and families today need biblical truth more than ever.
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