This episode is supported in part by the Christian Standard Bible, a translation designed to be faithful to the original text and clear for everyday readers. We're grateful for their partnership in helping bring gospel-centered content to families like yours. To learn more about the CSB, visit csbible.com. Hi. Back, you know, years ago when we were 29 to 32, having our first kids and learning some really valuable lessons of right-sizing.
Idolatry in my heart of living mission as my purpose when no intimacy with God is my purpose. And though I covenant relationships of my family, No one else can live out those relationships and everything else, you know, someone's going to be the president of Cambridge Crusade for Christ International someday. And I want to be faithful and steward that currently, but man, I had to learn some hard lessons early on. Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson.
And I'm Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifeToday.com. This is Family Life today. We've got the president of crew. David Robbins and Big Robbins in the studio. Guys, good to be back.
This is amazing. It's been too long. You don't know. We don't. We didn't figure it out.
But we're happy to have you back. We're glad to be back. It feels like home. It's amazing. Thank you.
Yeah, you guys look younger. Oh, wow. You're just saying things that aren't true in order to butter us up. That's what you do as a host, right? I agree.
I agree. Make people feel good about themselves. You're supposed to say true compliments. I was going to say, you might have heard this last weekend, I did something that I found out less than 1% of people that ever exist on the planet get to do.
Okay. I did the Olympic bob sled in Lake Placid, New York. I did it in 46 seconds. Wow. And if you watch Cool Runnings, member of the General.
I've seen it many times. We love that movie. They don't qualify if they got under a minute.
So we beat them. Anyway, no, the only reason I'm bringing this up is because it was the most exhilarating, out of control, scary. I mean, we're off the ice at points, and you're shaking. And it was literally the Thailand bob sled. They thought they're going to give us this gift.
They put guests in, it's all comforty, it's all like, oh, we just got the Thailand one. The only reason I'm bringing this up, it was the ride of my life. You guys have just taken the ride of your life. You've sort of been out of Bob's sled line. I'm kidding.
What a stupid analogy. But no, year one, it was not 78 seconds or less, but it was 46. It's 46.
Sorry, babe. New phase. This felt probably like getting into the box. That's what I thought. What are we doing?
New phase, meaning tell our audience that don't know. I think most of them do, but what are you doing now?
Well, you know, it was a treat of a lifetime for seven years to get to lead family life and to get to be around this table with you, you guys, frequently and to team up with the team. We're here because of you guys. You chose us. That's why we're here. Thank you for saying yes.
You were a provision. I reflect back to that decision when Dennis Rainey and I and Bob LePine were discussing what's next. We took a year to really pray about it and we were praying, Lord, would you lead toward a couple where a perspective of a husband and a wife and a mother and a father could be guiding listeners through all sorts of conversations. And I'm so grateful for the provision you guys have been to family life and continue to be. And so grateful for Luke and Christina Mittendorf as they continue to lead well.
But that. Luke and Christine are in the role now, Luke as president. Because it was about a year and a half ago that we got installed as the president of CRU, which is what the ministry is known in the U.S. It's Campus Crusade for Christ International. In the U.S., that's known as CRU.
Family Life is one of the ministries underneath CRU. And so it's been a blast of a year, getting to know staff and volunteers all around the world. And that, you know, that first year really was about getting to every region of the world, as many staff conferences as we could, meeting staff, meeting volunteers, getting to Hear their stories around meals. I mean, these are people. Just like you and me, but also raised up and Corners of the world that are facing persecution from their families, they're seeing God show up.
In phenomenal ways. People, you know, Jesus shows up in someone's dream and then the next day meets one of the missionaries or volunteers and disciples that's that's there and leads them to Jesus. You know, it's that is happening around the world and it's it's been a gift to be a part of it. And it's been a gift to downshift a little in this last six months. From the bobsled ride?
From the bobsled ride of year one. Yes. We have a senior in high school.
So her senior year has allowed us to not only wake up to, okay, how do we get more into a routine, but also prioritize her and time we have remaining. I mean, everything I see when I follow you on.
Social media is, it looks like a bobsled ride. It looks like. Wow, the winds, your hair is blowing back. You're flying. You're around the world.
Cause a lot of your job is I gotta know what's happening in this new. New to you. Especially, yeah, like the learning curve. Yeah. I mean, you had a goal of trying to get to every region around the world, which.
You made it. Yeah, almost all of them. And I actually got to join you for most of those, which was amazing. But just trying to balance that with the stage of life we're in. You know, we have three kids still at home, only one in college.
And yeah, our family, we don't get these days and weeks and years back with our kids, obviously. And we're the only one who can be their mom and dad.
So trying to keep that right in front of our face all the time, I feel like, is. Challenging, but crucial, you know.
Well, that's the perfect segue because. Maybe not everybody's the president of some gigantic ministry or organization, but we all feel the pressure of our jobs, ministry, family, that balancing act, and it can be hard to balance that. Absolutely. I mean, I just would say, yeah, right. Learn as we go and let's learn from our mistakes.
Yeah. But let's keep learning. I do think, I mean, the way you said that, and I go, yes. We've said yes because God said it would be disobedience if we didn't to this current role. But I think back to the lessons learned from 29 to 32.
for me in particular, of right-sizing work and ministry. You know, no matter what your current yes is vocationally and the things that you love to fill your time with in purpose. That temptation is always there. And whether you're leading a large organization or, you know, at 29, we were leading a team of 10 people on a local campus having a blast. But I feel like I had more idolatry controlling my time in that season.
But that was things that shaped me now were forged in that season. And we keep growing and learning. And certainly we have missteps in year one. We did not live it out perfectly, but yet, man, it was really formed. Back, you know, years ago when we were 29 to 32, having our first kids and learning some really valuable lessons of right-sizing.
Idolatry in my heart of living mission as my purpose when no intimacy with God is my purpose. And then I covenant relationships of my family. No one else can live out those relationships. And everything else, you know, someone's going to be the president of Cambridge Crusade for Christ International someday. And I want to be faithful and steward that currently.
But man, I had to learn some hard lessons early on. I mean, Meg, as you watched, you know, your husband do that. How do you do? I mean, was there a time where you're like, hey. I'm over here.
So you're not talking necessarily now, but those that like 29? Yeah, in those years. Then and now. I mean, I gone through it as a wife. I know what Anne would say.
I want to know what you're saying.
Well, I think the way that kind of came to a head for us, actually, is we had someone that he was coaching in ministry was really struggling in their marriage. And we were just praying for them, talking about them. And he was trying to update me because I was, you know, talking with a wife as well. And he said, I mean, talking about their marriage so much, does that make you kind of wonder about our marriage? We get to role play here.
I get to be here. Yeah, you get to be here.
So we're in the car on the way to a Wednesday night church. You know, Wednesday night church, just when you're in survival mode, you're like, just get the kids into something struggling. Three and under. Three and under. Three and under.
And so you, I said the question. He asked, he said, so talking about their marriage so much, does that kind of make you wonder about how our marriage is? Meg said, and I go, oh. I guess we need to talk about this. I was not laughing.
It wasn't funny at the time because I was feeling like he was driving ahead in so many ways in ministry and what he was giving out to other people and pouring into this couple's marriage, and yet feeling like. I'm really struggling over here. I was, we had these three kids, three and under, and our youngest was 10 months old at the time. And I was still feeling like I was in survival mode. And you know, with the first one, you're in survival mode for like six to eight weeks.
I don't know, this was me. And then the next one, a little longer, maybe four months, you know, because you've got two, you're trying to adjust. But when the third one came along, I mean, I was like hanging by a thread at the 10-month mark, you know, and I felt like he had no idea, like he didn't see me is what I was feeling. Nothing you would try to communicate, but I was. You know, just doing things to try to keep together at home, keep it going at work.
I was so proud that I was like, Going in at seven and coming back at three to avoid Atlanta traffic. And I was like, Aren't I a great husband? But I'm coming home exhausted, no rhythms of sleep, and really just. functioning well together, but really not thriving. At all, spiritually, emotionally connected.
And I think it took. Like me giving so much energy to another. marriage, another trying to help them set up. It wasn't a bitterness. It was a realization of, wait, we're not okay.
And all these little things, you know, like Song of Solomon says, catch the little foxes that hinder and destroy the garden. I'm like, foxes come in and out, and you don't know the first few nights. And then, as they keep adding up and time keeps going, your garden's destroyed, or you're, you know, you're no grapes on the vine, you know. And Yeah, we were at a pretty empty place. What I chuckle though is.
Did I know?
Well, I think I knew something enough to ask, but then was I ready for what was really coming? Because this month we go to bed. Are you okay?
Well, what am I really saying? That's a really lazy question. For I know something's not quite right, and I'm going to put responsibility upon you to help declare it or not. I'm learning slowly. The other thing that I feel like we are learning and have to remind ourselves is like if I've shared something that I'm struggling with, or I'm feeling, hey, I'm really feeling like, you know, we're going from trip to trip, visiting people all over, and you know, we're not getting the time that we normally do just for the two of us.
Or I don't know, that's probably not a very good example. But We're still kind of in that place, but he hasn't come back to say, Hey, how are you feeling? Are we feeling? Are we connecting better than we were a month ago? It's like revisiting the thing that I have shared about or we've talked about.
It's a check-in. Yeah, like rather than being like, Are you okay? Because that sets me up to have to go into the whole thing all over again, rather than like, oh, it could just be that same thing. I think back to this time of 29 to 32 and that moment. The simplest step we did.
This was Overly simple, but it's what we had time for and space for. Is we said, you know what? At church on Wednesday nights, we usually drop the kids off and hang out with friends in the you know the common area. After the Wednesday night dinner. Yeah, yeah, we don't have these anymore at our current church.
But um How about we go to that marriage class they're offering? Like it was You guys, it was that simple. And it was laughing your way to a better marriage. Gunger. Yeah.
Oh, yeah. It was an old videotape. I would say there was something to laughing together. But, you know, that's why Art of Marriage is such a great video series. It makes you laugh some, but then it makes it set up some conversation where you end up looking each other in the eye.
And it's this micro check-in. I look back and I go, that was overly simple. Hmm. But it just took us Somebody's setting up something for us then to go talk about and to have something fresh in our marriage to go because let's get realigned. And, you know, we've had to realign a lot over years.
Other times there's been much more. You know, feeling much more apart. In that moment, I feel like it was a quick realignment in those coming weeks when we said yes to go into that marriage small group. Because we talked about it onto the woman. I mean, how would you coach up a wife?
I guess I'm asking. And I think it can go either way, too. Because I can get maybe coach up both then. Yeah, because my schedule may not be quite what yours was back in the day.
Now it is. But I still find myself as crazy as yours. Basically. But I find myself so preoccupied in my mind with not only work. all of that, but also Have I spent time with the kids and the grandkids?
And am I touching base? That it can pull me away from Dave because we haven't been with them. And so I can feel distracted in my mind and not as focused on him because he's fine. That's what I can think that as a wife, especially. And so I think it can go both ways.
Okay, now go to the other side. You just raised something else, though. We gotta talk about that. But it's like. He's still going to be there.
He's other things. He's doing things. You know, this is like a timeline has to happen or whatever. I'll get back to that. Or I'll get to that later.
Right. When it's like, actually, this is like a huge, important lifeline that, I mean, we know these things that if we're not doing well, all the trickle-down effect that has. Yeah, yeah. But it's easy to focus on the other things.
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If you're a wife, let's start there, that's feeling resentful because your man is driving hard in a high-pressure job. I mean, what you're leading is a high-capacity, needy, pressure. There's a lot of things that you're carrying and a lot of guys carry a lot of things and women do too. There's jobs that they're carrying the same thing. But it feels like, okay, that's outside my home and I've got my wife at home who's really feeling neglected.
How would you coach up a wife, either one of you two? Maybe David and I could say, I'll tell you how to do it all. But, you know, how does she say to her husband? I'm really feeling neglected. Yeah.
And it isn't just you're not getting home at 5:15. You haven't been here all week. And even when you do get home, You're not here. And I've got three kids or teenagers or whatever stage. I know and felt abandoned.
And, you know, I think a lot of again, we can flip it because guys can feel the same thing. But how do you, how would you coach up a wife to say, don't say this, say this, or, Yeah, I think the number one thing that comes to my mind is actually the first couple of years in the role at Family Life, leading family life. I was really struggling and David was carrying I mean, we were both carrying a lot because we did a lot of things together in that space. But I feel like there came a point where I realized Okay. I'm Feeling like my role was a little more ambiguous, and so I was trying to figure that out, but also, like, born to our kids, we had moved and trying to help them survive and find my friends and our family friends, whatever it is.
And he's so focused on, you know, things that work and. Starting to feel that. But what I did, I didn't realize it, but I finally had this aha moment of.
So I am Keeping that from him. I'm not telling him how I feel, and I'm not sharing about this resentment because I'm being too careful. I didn't want to put one more thing on him because I saw how much he was dealing with and carrying, and I felt like that's just going to be one more thing. And some of the things I was feeling, they weren't necessarily new. You know, we often go back to the same struggles, the same things that, you know, he's always going to be someone who.
Is, I mean, he's very gifted at doing a lot of things and leading ahead and a lot of things at once.
So that means there's gonna be a temptation always to take on more. And so the good giftedness of that, well, there's always like a flip side of like, okay, then. How does that play out in our marriage and family? It's like, okay, choosing to have healthy boundaries, but.
So, those same things come back for us a lot, I feel like. You had someone share: hey, you, Meg, need to stop being so careful. Yeah. Just Meaning, it's not my place to decide if he Has too much on his plate. And I mean, I know in my head that our marriage is more important than all of those other things.
But it was just easy for me to think. Oh, it's not a good time, or I know he has so much, and this is just going to be one more boulder for him to carry. And I think the reality was: no, it was, I was actually. Keeping him from knowing me. I wasn't letting him in to what I was really feeling and experiencing.
And whether part of that was resentment or part of that was just. You know, the challenge of trying to find my place and where do my giftings fit and what God's called me to at that time in family life. For me, I mean, if I'm telling a younger wife or another person, how do you do that? How do you let your husband in? I think first I realized I have to process this with the Lord.
I need to take some time and probably journal and pray about it. I mean, I love to journal. I don't always make time for it, but it always gives me clarity of what I'm actually feeling rather than just like this fuming anger, you know?
So, I mean, it helps me realize what are the things that I need to own in this and what are the things that I can say, hey, I'm feeling like this. And I'm wondering if maybe it's because when you come home, we're not really talking about how we're doing. We're always talking about the kids or we're talking about. The sports or the job or whatever it is. Yeah, I know, you know, you know our story, but I think what Ann did, you can.
Talk to this. Maybe you stop. Saying to me because you thought I wasn't listening. But you know, we get to the point where on our 10-year anniversary, he says, I lost my feelings for you. And whenever we tell that story, which is in the art of marriage, it's this journey of I was angry.
I was resentful. This is what you say. Then I realized I've become numb. And now I just don't have feelings.
So it's like, she probably said it and I didn't hear it. But the way I said it wasn't great. Like you're never home anymore. I wish, and here's here's the thing I think when you're resentful, what I found myself doing is the more you store bitterness in your heart, the more distant I become from God. And when I would go to God, which it's so funny, when I take my eyes off of Jesus, I automatically, I still do this.
I look at Dave to fill me up. Yeah, sure. It's just a natural thing. I see what he's doing wrong and he becomes the idol. And I think that's really natural to happen.
But I do think, Meg, I wish I would have said it in a way. I wish I would have taken it to Jesus. How can I say this? But what happens is once you say it. And nothing changes, that's when it gets really hard.
And I can also get into like, okay, we're in a hard season for you guys. This is going to be a year of grind. Maybe you took, or your husband's taking a new job or you're doing a new location. And I think what we can do as a spouse is we gear up, all right? But then when it goes on and on and it doesn't change, we get desperate.
And that's when we don't know what to do. And I was going to say and agree with you, Meg. I tend to say way too much. I wasn't protecting Dave. I am just pounding him with my words.
That's the other side of it. Yeah, that's true. But when he retreat away. And Dave seldom says anything negative to me. Nope.
What are you talking about? No, you don't. Like, you to be truthful and honest, I think you're scared of me. And I need you to be. Like, I want him to tell me the truth because how am I going to change if I don't know what the truth is?
Yeah, and I think what happened to me, and I wonder how many guys feel this, or if you ever felt it. I don't even admit this. This is so childish and selfish. Oh, good. What is it?
I don't even want to say it. It's just like, what an immature, selfish baby. You know, but it was like, it was like God was blessing the ministry. And, okay, if you're not in ministry, God's blessing your job and good things are happening. And the more you give to it, the better it seems like it got.
And so, and for us, we're starting a church.
So we're a church planner and it just starts growing. And that's a dream, you know. And I felt every time she would bring something up about me being home or even the kids needing me, and they were babies at the time, I found inside I was resentful. I just wanted to go, don't you see what's happening over here? Leave me alone, which is terrible.
But I sort of felt it. I didn't ever set it, but underneath I sort of gave the vibe like. Just, you're good, right? Please be good. Yeah, right.
Because you don't want to mess up this. This is what we're on the point to do, and God's doing it.
Something he. Like, anyone could justify that in any job or any vacation, but I will say, like. It's probably in ministry. It's probably even more of something. That we're tempted to do.
Look what God sued him. Yeah. And as a spouse, you can think.
Well, now I'm not. I shouldn't say anything because God is blessing us. And what's terrible to think back about those days is we were on the Family Life Weekend Remember Speaker Team. And so we were talking about how important marriage is. We were leading Family Life.
God uses us in our weakness, that's for sure. But He grows us in that spot. I forgot how much I love the Robins. We do. We could talk with them forever.
I know, but don't worry, we're not going to talk with them forever. Just another day tomorrow.
So they'll be back with us and you don't want to miss it. I'll tell you what. A lot of people don't know this, but we're on YouTube. And you're a lot prettier than you sound. No, I don't even watch it because it's scary.
You can watch it. But I love watching YouTube clips. You get a lot more out of it, I think, when you're watching YouTube. And the next generation is probably going to watch it rather than just listen to it.
So you can do either or, but if you want to watch and enjoy it, youtube.com slash family life. Just go to youtube.com/slash family life. Or if you're a big YouTube person, just go to YouTube and type in Family Life. One word. I put three words on there and it still worked: Family Life today.
Family Life Today is a donor-supported production of Family Life, a Crew Ministry, 50 years of helping you pursue the relationships that matter most. Yeah.
