You know, I've realized I'm kind of picky when it comes to Bible translations. Yeah, you are, because you're the guy that underlines half the page and then argues with the footnotes. And I'm a good arguer. But, you know, I care about two things, faithfulness to the original text and just being able to read it without feeling like I'm reading a dictionary. Which is why we're grateful for the support of the Christian Standard Bible.
The CSB was created to be accurate and readable, helping people engage God's word with confidence and clarity. And it's sponsors like the CSB that help make this podcast possible. To learn more, visit csbible.com. Hi. There's way too many parents today, and I'll just be bold and say this, who believe that the child's job is to perform so that they look good to their peer group on social media, et cetera.
And so kids become performers. and kids become human doings, former human beings, there's no freedom in that. Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Ann Wilson. And I'm Dave Wilson, and you can find us at FamilyLifetoday.com.
This is Family Life Today. We got Kathy Cook in the studio. I want to jump into your book. Which is start with the heart, how to motivate your kids to be compassionate, responsible, and brave, even when you're not around. I want to go there.
Okay. But I do want to do this because I think you're going to be. Golden at this. I wrote down in my notes top three things. I'm just gonna throw them at.
Whatever comes to your mind when I say top three things, middle school kids are struggling with. Believing that they're worth anything to anyone. would be one of them. Fill in hopeless and helpless and invisible and I'm in the way, so I have no value.
Some of them have said to me, Dave, that I know I have value. God made me, Jesus died for me, but I don't feel valuable here.
So the struggle is real in their environment of a home or and a school and even maybe a youth group.
So I think that would be huge. How about this one? Parents should stop doing what? Oh, comparing their children to anybody else. When you empty the backpack and you have a child with a 94, a child with an 87, or a kid just ran a track meet, you don't say, how do the other kids do?
Because you're not raising anybody but your kid. And as soon as you say, how did the other kids do? Your kid with the 94 is going to feel like it's not good enough unless it was the best of the best scores, right?
So comparison is already on social media. It's already, you know, the mirror effect, if you will, but we don't need to be comparing. We need to raise the children we were given and we don't need to worry about where they stand in a hierarchy with other kids. Here's one. What are the questions the parents are asking?
How do I get my kid off the phone? Would be one, which I know you two have strong feelings about that as well. You know, how do I get him to listen to me? How do I get him to be obedient with the phone, turn in the phone, stop gaming? A lot of technology questions I think would be huge.
How do I get them to answer more than a grunt? You know, a lot of our parents do care deeply about the children and they want to know how school is. They want to know their kids. Yeah, they want to know their kids. And of course, kids are grunting and saying, okay, fine, good, and not elaborating.
So that's a big issue. What would you say as the question or two that the parents should be asking? How can I help you?
So asking your child that. Not can I help. Because that's yes or no. Oh, that's good. And kids are.
They want to be independent, even though they know they need the parents.
So, how can I help you? And then maybe even follow that up with a multiple choice: you know, do you need space? Do you need supplies? Do you need an answer? Do you need guidance?
Sometimes we would follow up with a multiple choice option there, but how can I help you? I think when kids come to us and we know they're confused, I think we ask, how did you arrive at that conclusion? What makes you think that is true? Like if they come to you with, you know, a gender question or a competition question, like I just don't feel like strong enough or smart enough or I wish I could run faster.
Well, what makes you think that would that would be good for you?
So what makes you think that is true? Who's taught you that? Because you're listening to somebody. Yeah. I think that would be huge.
Another question that I love asking young people is what happens if you're wrong?
So if a kid comes to you and, you know, they think that they can change their gender or they think that they, you know, should drop an advanced chemistry course and just, you know, have a, have a study period or they don't want to go out for a spring sport this year, but they've always played a sport. And you say, well, what if you're wrong? Because I think that that's discernment, right? That helps the kid think things through maybe in another way. And now the parent is the one who's in the conversation to guide the conversation rather than asking Siri or Google or even a friend at school.
Oh, that's so interesting. Because I just flashed back to being a senior in high school. I was a track runner. Oh. And I remember telling my dad, I'm not going to run this year.
Come on. My first year in six years, I'm not going to run. Of course, your dad was a coach. He coached me. He was really involved in sports.
Not a track coach. He was a coach. A coach who loved athletics. He would have asked me. A question like that.
and put it on me? It would have changed everything. Interesting. Instead. Oh, go ahead.
Tell him what she did. I love Dick Barron. He's amazing. My dad was amazing. He's with the Lord now.
But he said, I'm not going to talk to you until you change your mind because you have to go out. And he didn't. He didn't talk to me for seven days. And I remember saying to him, like, now you're just being immature. You're pretty spunky, Kathy.
You can tell that. That's why I married this girl. She does it. But what if he would have given me like, what if he like, okay, what would happen if you don't do that? Right.
Right. And what happened? What would it look like if you did? Like, just to pose some questions. That might have gotten me to thinking, why don't I want to go out?
Exactly. What's going on? And I could have answered that. And it was because of fear. And I didn't want to fail.
So there's so much more underneath some of the things that our kids are doing and asking. Absolutely. I feel like all of your material is golden. Hey, I got to ask one last question before we jump in to start with the hard work. We're starting.
This is all inside. I know it is, isn't it? It would be this, because I know a lot of our listeners, this is. Top three, probably. How do I ignite my child's spiritual faith?
You know, that's their dream. I want him or her, when they're adults, to walk with God. They're a middle school kid, or they're, you know, what do I or don't I do? The first thing that comes to mind shouldn't be hard, and that is that we model a vibrant relationship with the God of the Bible. We wake up talking about him.
They see us honor the word of God. They see us pull the word out randomly on a Thursday morning, you know, not just a Wednesday night, Sunday morning. We talk about what we read in the word. We talk about the experience we had in our prayer walk. I think we teach them how the Holy Spirit leads.
One of the questions a lot of young people are asking me is: Dr. Kathy, you talk about the Holy Spirit guiding you, and I've heard my mom or my pastor talk about the leading of the Holy Spirit. But, Dr. Kathy, I don't know how that works. Like, how do I know if it's, you know, I just want to do it versus God is.
Telling me, yeah, quote unquote, how to do it.
So, I think how do we ignite? We teach and train, we don't tell and yell. That's again part of the passion at the ministry. I'm seeing listeners. If this was me listening, I'd be writing down every single one of these things.
Yeah, I think we teach. I think we train. I think we ask, what would you like to know about spiritual? Development or spiritual growth, or where are you frustrated in any part of your relationship with God? Like to let them, but you know what, Ann, it's like if they're secure with us, like if they trust us, if there's no fear, then if I and I've asked, I ask a son or daughter, you know, is there anything that you'd like to grow into?
Is there any part of your walk with God that's dissatisfying? And then they could be honest with us. Yes. And then we say, How can I help with that? You know, are you ready to want some help?
So I think we're very bold in that way. And I'll say again, though, it starts with us modeling a vibrant desire. To be in a relationship with God and the fact that He matters greatly to us. He is not a Sunday morning, Wednesday night God. He's a 24-7, 365.
I could say much more, but I'll leave it at that for now.
Well, that's big. And because we're talking about your book, Start with the Heart. I think that is like a little segue. All of those things are connecting with your kids' hearts when we know our kids. I think those are so good.
No, thank you. Yeah. So what does that mean? Start with the heart. to prioritize your heart's relationship.
And the love that you have, which I pray is unconditional. There's nothing they can do to earn it or to lose it. And it's not that they perform for us, they are with us. Securing the heart is there's nothing that you can do that would cause me to walk away. There's nothing that you can do that would cause me to walk towards you more.
We just are, we are family, and we are it. And we're in this for the long haul, just as God is with us, you know, for the long haul.
So it's honesty, dependability, responsibility. It's asking to be forgiven, expecting that to happen, but not demanding it in a rude and a bossy kind of a way, if I could put it that way. It's being present. Securing the heart happens to you guys when we like our children. I don't know if you've had children or grandchildren tell you this, but sometimes when I interview children, they'll say, Well, my dad has to love me.
He doesn't have a choice, you know, or God has to love me, and I love that He loves me. But Dr. Kathy, I wish my dad would like me. And then when I asked children, and even back to the day when I taught second graders forever ago, you know, well, what would cause you to feel liked? And the majority of the answer would be, they asked to play with me.
So rather than the kid always saying, hey, you know, dad, you want to shoot hoops? Or, mom, could we play checkers? Or, you know, Grandma, do you have time to color with me? When the adult approaches the child and says, hey, do you want to color together or do you want to shoot hoops or would you like to play checkers? The kid feels noticed in that moment, right?
And the child feels valued in that moment. And then, you know what, you guys, they see the parent sacrifice. Like when children say, daddy put his phone down. And daddy went outside with me. Like that, come on, that's huge.
And I think that's huge between a husband and a wife. When you prioritize and when you sacrifice, I think kids feel something very different. Certainly that's love, but it's also like. And you know what? When you're liked, you're much more likely to be obedient.
Right? When you're liked, you're much more likely to want to be present in that relationship. I think it changes everything. Yeah, it's interesting. You know, you mentioned marriage.
You know, Ann's latest book was about how to speak life to your husband when all you want to do is yell at him. Yeah. And one of the stories we tell in there is: I was with my men's group on a trip, and I said to them in the car, rental car, I think four other guys. Hey. Question number one: Do you feel like your wife loves you?
I know all their wives. I know their families. Every guy within five seconds. Yep. Wife loves me.
Second question: Do you feel like your wife likes you? Every guy within five seconds? Nope. And they're all like, Wilson, what's this about? I'm like, what do you see next?
Isn't that interesting, isn't it? They all said, I think she's disappointed. Oh, I know she loves me. I know she's not leaving. We're in a covenant of marriage, but I feel like every day she's critiquing me.
She's trying to, it's like I'm a fixer-upper, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so I think we do that in our marriage. And we, and I think our kids feel like we know we do because what happens with kids, and this is a good thing as parents, we're training our kids. We're teaching our kids. We're training them.
Oh, wait, wait, wait. Teach and train. Don't yell and tell. Tell and yell. Yeah, okay, but what happens is we do yell.
You know, sometimes we fall into these bad habits, especially when teenagers, especially, are having an attitude or they get, we say it lazy. And I think what happens is we stop speaking life to our kids or asking them great questions. And so I think so many kids would say, yeah, my parents don't like me because they're always yelling at me or they're always telling me what to do. Or not listening. Yeah.
Right. I started this thing last year with a couple of our grandkids. And the reason I did it again this year is because they said, I said, what was the favorite thing, your favorite thing you did all summer? And they said, it's when we walked the river with you. I'm like, what?
They said, yeah, when you told us, let's go walk this river. And they're four and at the time, they were three and five, but it was rapids and it was only like knee deep, but it was an adventure and it was risky. And I was saying, I know you can do this. It's going to be fun. And I pursued them.
So you're saying those are the kind of things that when we pursue kids, we're asking them questions, looking them in the eye. And even asking, that's the chapter title. How are you doing? That's getting into their hearts. Yes, and what's so important in all of this, you guys, is that We have to believe that our children's job is not to be excellent so we look excellent.
Like part of the fear here, right? Part of the yelling and part of the we choose to distance ourselves from family members is there's way too many parents today, and I'll just be bold and say this, who believe that the child's job is to perform so that they look good. to their peer group on social media etc and so kids become performers And kids become Human doings, former human beings, there's no freedom in that. It's really back to you and your dad, and the whole, I don't want to play run track. It's, I'm fearful that I'll disappoint you.
And you perceived that you didn't want your dad disappointed.
So, can parents recognize that they weren't given children so that they would look good? They weren't given children to perform for them. You know, children are going to be children and they're going to make mistakes because that's how children learn. And it's, and we have to separate that out. We can teach and train the very best that we can, and we can motivate and we can, you know, pray for them, and they're still children, you know, and that's just a reality.
Dave, what's one question about intimacy? That you've always wanted to ask, but you were too afraid. I'm afraid to answer the question you just asked me. Maybe now's not the appropriate time. I mean, intimacy is something that's hard to talk about.
Well, what if the questions you're too embarrassed to ask are the ones your marriage actually really needs answered? And that's the topic of Marriage After Dark, which is Family Life's newest podcast where a real married couple answers all the questions couples secretly Google about sex. And if you want a stronger connection or deeper intimacy and a healthier marriage, This is your space. And right now, it's only available to a select Family Life audience. For more, go to familylife.com slash marriage after dark.
I'll tell you, the conversation your marriage needs shouldn't stay in the dark.
Well, let me ask you. You said earlier, you know, the child is longing and we want them to feel loved and accepted for who they are. Let's go there. What if they're making decisions, especially now, middle school, high school, maybe older? that we disagree with.
Let's say I'm leaving the faith. I don't believe, mom and dad, what you've taught me. As a parent, how do we love them? In that, we love them obediently, and I don't say that lightly. We're called to love.
We're called to stand in the trenches with them and to teach the truth. Love is true. Let's look at 1 Corinthians 13. What if we took that out of the wedding ceremony or leave it there? Leave it in the marriage.
Leave 1 Corinthians 13 in the marriage, but let's add it to the parenting piece.
So love is enduring and love is kind and love is patient and love is true. and tells the truth.
So we say to our kids, you know, I'm disappointed. You have a right to your disappointment. I tell this to parents all the time. You know, you have to be careful what you say and you're you're careful how you communicate that. You don't want the kid to be shamed and blamed and choose to then isolate, but you have a right to say, whoa.
That's somewhat surprising given the way that we're raising you. And then I think we earn the right to say, what makes you think that's true? Or why is that a good idea? Or again, first question maybe is: why do you think this is good for you? Because I can almost guarantee you, Dave, they heard something.
They overheard something. They saw something. They experienced someone or something, and they've got this idea up here. And they're asking, they're telling you, they could have asked you, but rather than asking you. Which gives you authority they don't want you to have, they tell you.
And then we need to say, whoa. Like, I think, again, you can say that you're surprised. It's okay to say that. If you're raising children with values and they go against the values, you better be surprised. If your goal as a mom and a dad is to raise up children to believe these things, if you have family values, I write in this book and in other books, know your values.
Don't assume your kids are going to pick up on them simply because they live with you.
So communicate your values. We are pro-life. Here's why. We are generous in times of want and plenty. Here's why.
You have values, and you teach them and model them before your children. And if they contradict those values, which again, the scripture wins, God's ways are the right and the best ways. When they go against that, we're not. I mean, I think because the culture is chaotic and the liar is loud, I don't think we should panic or be shocked that that's happening, even if we feel like we're doing a really good job within the walls of our home.
So we say, no, boy, that's surprising. Where did that idea come from? It didn't come from within the walls of this house. And then again, they might grunt at you that first day and might not answer that question, but ideally, we hang with them. And if your love is unconditional, you still go out for ice cream.
You still do your daddy, daughter, donuts. You're still acting like you always have. You love them. Please, absolutely. And if you don't, like if you separate, you'll have fewer opportunities to influence their, you know, becoming beliefs, if I can put it that way.
So, you know, let's recognize to the parent, grandparent listening, these are hard things. And we know that, you know, there's. There's maybe some trauma and some fear in that. We don't want you to parent out of fear. Again, this is why we're here.
It's why we have the holy scripture, which is accurate and much more practical than a lot of people think. And by could I always say one more thing would be: we don't make it about us, right? Like in this moment where they're coming to us and you know, I'm wondering about, you know, I'm dropping out of school. I was looking up at, you know, GED is really easy, and then I can just go be the entrepreneur. Or again, gender or, you know, premarital sex or something really big and ugly, the hairy spider in the corner.
Those are really scary things. But we don't panic and we still love them strong in those moments. We still hang with them. What if we also said the good things that are still going on, right?
So in other words, here, let me go here. They say that they think they might want to change their gender. It's in the back of your mind and it in your prayer corner, if you will. But you still talk about in what ways were you creative today? Hey, you know, Brian, we're raising you to be generous.
How were you generous today? We still talk about all the other things because otherwise all they are is this walking billboard for gender dysfunction and we don't want that. Yeah, and you've written a book about gender. We have. And it's called Raising Gender Confident Kids because we want that.
My co-author is Dr. Jeff Myers. And we're excited about that book. And we wrote that because the confusion is real. And we wanted to give a tool to the parents that are really concerned because we don't want them parenting out of fear.
There is wisdom in these days of confusion. And you start this book with Relationships Rule. Yes. So as a parent, what does that mean? And why is that important?
Yeah, because they've got to know you and you've got to know them. And it's not about performing. It's about relating. It's about love and like and passion and forgiveness and accountability. It's about character really and that thing.
And, you know, they're not going to listen to you if they don't think you know them. They're really, why would they? There's a chatbot out there that they think knows them better than a mom. Yeah, it's really a frightening thing. Or the lyricist of that song that they love.
They get me. Yeah, they get me. Exactly. So, you know what it is? It's hanging out.
It's being present without your phone. It's inviting them to cut the carrots, even if it takes longer for the salad to be prepared. Who cares? You know, and you make the effort to ask one of your sons to go with you on the errand you're going to run that night. Even though you might be an introvert and you might want the quiet, you might want to listen to a podcast, I get that, but you're a parent in the moment, you've got only a few moments left.
You sacrifice yourself again and you say, hey, come with me to the store. Let's have some talk time. And I think, too, figure out what are the best ways and the best times to get to know your kids. I know for us, laying down at night, praying for them. We end up like, it could start out with five minutes.
It could be an hour. Yeah. And kids don't want to sleep when they're younger. And you can lay there for an hour just talking. And when they get older, it's a little different, but you're still so food at the kitchen counter at midnight.
Yeah. And just asking them, what's going on? Right. But I love how practical you get. Is there anything else we can do as parents to get to their hearts to really know them?
Especially with a teen that's a little more like suspicious. Like, wait, what are you doing? Right. I think us being appropriately vulnerable is valuable. Sharing age-appropriate things from your past.
You know, don't make something about you in the moment. It's about them. But then later you look for the opportunity to talk about maybe a vulnerable time in your life and how did you handle that fear and who did you go to for wisdom? How did you become resilient so that you would bounce back from that difficult situation? I think that's cool.
That's cool. I think talking to the children one-on-one, like we have a tendency right at dinner, like there's seven kids at the table and how is school and they go around the table. No kid in front of the Siblings is going to talk about the fact that they were teased in school or that they feel like they made a fool of themselves in front of everybody at the whiteboard.
So, there's ideally, we take time for those one-on-one conversations. Bedtime's huge. They don't like looking at our faces if they're going to disappoint us. They tell us that they don't want to see your face when they make you mad. It's true.
Right? So, they like the dark. Even men and women have told me they're more vulnerable in the dark in the same way. I'm going for a walk and kicking a rock because they can't look at you while they're doing that. And it's easier, especially for boys to be vulnerable.
Boys will always tell you more when they're busy doing something. They're more shoulder-to-shoulder communicators, where women are more eyeball-to-eyeball with the interrogation at the kitchen table.
So, I think you're right, Ann, about choosing the right time in the space. And what if we did open-ended questions like, you know, what do you want me to know about you today? What would they say? I remember doing jury duty forever ago and there were these two men and they were in suits and they had the leather briefcases. The courtroom in my city is really in downtown near all the high-rise buildings.
So my guess is that they were lawyers and when we were done they were going to go or accountants and they were going to go to some building. And I watched these two men begin to interact as we were waiting to see if we would be needed. This one guy says, say, you know, so what's your life all about? And the guy pulled out pictures and said, I'm married to the finest woman in Fort Worth. And then, could I show you my kids?
Like, they're amazing. And then the other guy is like, oh, my wife, like, she's better than yours. And let me show you my kids. And I watched them have a very meaningful, relatively deep conversation about family. And I know if they would have said, so what do you do for a living?
They would have talked for 20 minutes about being an accountant or a lawyer or, you know, fill in the blank. But they talked about family because there was this open-ended opportunity to do so.
So what if we, you know, what do you want me to know about you? Tell me about your day. is again an open-ended question. I love asking kids, you know, when were you curious today? When did you feel hopeful today?
When did you feel, you know, helpless today? And how did you handle it?
So asking about their heart, right? Going to that place. And it's, again, and you don't have to have all the right answers. You don't have to know what to say when they say, I was hopeless in this minute. Then you say, well, how did you handle it?
And God's gonna lead you. I really love being with Kathy Cook. I knew you were going to say that. Of course, you did. You guys, it's like this fire hose of information that I'm like, wait, what'd she say again?
It's like I need to listen to that over and over. And yeah, and I'm like, I don't know if I can remember it all, and neither can you. That's why you go get the book. Go to familylifetoday.com, click on the link in the show notes, and get her book, Start With a Heart, which is how to motivate your kids to be compassionate, responsible, and brave, even when you're not around. And we'll have her back on tomorrow.
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