Hey, why don't you tell everybody one of your favorite Bible verses?
Okay, I will because it's Psalm 119, 105. And that verse says, Your word is a lamp for my feet and a light on my path. I mean, what an awesome. Bible verse that reminds us how scripture lights the way in marriage and parenting and basically everything else. And we're super grateful to the Christian Standard Bible for supporting this podcast.
Yes, and just for their work in helping people read God's Word clearly and faithfully. To learn more, go to csbible.com. For a long time in our marriage, maybe I felt. Her tone might have made it hard for me to hear what she was saying without me feeling definitely attacked. There was something very different in her tone and demeanor that didn't show that secondary emotion of anger, but it actually showed her primary emotion to me, which is actual hurt.
Welcome to Family Life Today, where we want to help you pursue the relationships that matter most. I'm Dave Wilson. And I'm Ann Wilson. You can find us at FamilyLifetoday.com. This is Family Life Today.
I'm excited to have Matt and Sarah Hammett back with us today. This is going to be a great conversation that's continued from yesterday. When did you end up writing this? Basically, in 2008, when I came home and she had this serious conversation with me. The lyrics of this song really do paint what happened.
It says, you know, in picture frames, I see my beautiful wife, but on the inside, I can hear her saying, Leave me. I literally was sitting at her dining room table across from her, looking over at her wedding photo where she is. just glowing with anticipation and joy of like the future that's in front of us. Seven years later, here's my bride with red eyes, puffy face, tears rolling down her cheeks. Just Brokenhearted, and I'm like.
What was hard is like, obviously, there were things we could point at to say, hey, I could do this better, or that better. I did this wrong, or. Maybe didn't do this at all, or whatever it was. But there were still so many things I didn't even know exactly how we'd gotten there. And that was the hardest part.
And that's, for me, it was such a cry for help. It was her cry for me. to lead her and to lead our kids. But my cry had to be If I'm going to lead this family, God, how are you going to lead me? And that's really the dual heart of the song: the family crying.
Dad, lead me, or my husband, lead me. And then the husband and father just saying, Lord, give me the strength to do it. I certainly don't have the wisdom on my own.
So, where were you when you wrote this? At our dining room table. I saw I wrote the first draft and then later took it in with a friend, Chris, our guitar player, and a guy named Jason Ingram, and just said, Hey, I think this song needs to be heard. Our president of our record label had heard the demo, and he said, I really want you guys to kind of go and put the bow on this song.
So, we went in and just really fine-tuned the song and made it what it is now. But, but yeah, I wrote the first draft of the song at that table. I called Sarah back in and I played it for her. And I think she said something like, Oh, it's a song you think I want. That is people have said, Do you cry when you listen to that song?
I'm like, Not the way you think I'm crying. No, it's beautiful. I love the song. It's so redemptive to our conflict because I've screamed at the Lord, like, why? Why would you put two people who have conflict like this together?
Like, it doesn't make sense. Please use this. And sure enough, through that song, he does, and he has in other ways as well. I mean, have you ever felt, though, that.
Something happens in your marriage. and it becomes a ministry. Oh, oh, yeah. Yeah. Because I know Ann's felt that.
I was like, we had this fighter. We had something. And I'm like, oh, this will help couples. Let's tell the stories. They're like, no, this is our problem.
I haven't minded it as much as our kids. Oh, we haven't gotten there yet with our kids. Don't write any songs about how your kids were growing up bad. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Your kids haven't been bad.
We used our kids, like things that happened with our kids as an illustration to something. In a sermon. That makes sense. And then they'll be like, yeah, really? The interesting thing is, again, this isn't about us, but in the moment, they didn't say anything.
Because I asked usually, hey, do you mind if I ended up? Oh, go ahead. But now as adults, what could we say, Dad? We're not going to say no. And then you tell the story and the whole church hears it and We sort of felt like we were used.
So I've told pastors, don't use your kids for stories. They're going to say yes, but I'm telling you, this could come back later. And when I look back, I'm like, this sermon doesn't work without this story. Guess what? It would have worked fine.
Now, a song may be different. You need that bridge, but a sermon's going to be okay without that one illustration. But in the moment, you think it's got to have it. And I sort of use my kids. But your comment, Sarah, is like this scratch in the regular.
You know, like, here's this beautiful song. And people are saying, Did you just cry? What were you wanting? I do. Like I said, I really think the song is beautiful.
It's been so used, but I really wanted real change. I didn't want to see it. I wanted action, not words. And these were words, and I'm like, okay, we'll see. You know what I mean?
Like. How long before the action began? Mess over there, like this provided food. What's really funny? What's really funny is I think it's funny.
I mean, I remember the first time I showed up with brownies at Sarah's house when I first met her. I brought her brownies and she says, Oh, I don't like sweets. Yeah, that's a good thing. The very beginning that I married a woman who is a truth teller. Yeah, 100%.
And I chose her that way. And you even said at the beginning of your book, when you talk about your soulmate, you feel like Sarah is your soulmate. Oh, yeah. It was like, I just felt that thing. But, you know, so it's like, it's like for me, I've learned to find humor in it.
It hurts my feelings still sometimes. Yeah, and I am really direct. Yeah, I mean, and that talking about our fight yesterday, my part in that is that when she's so direct with me, sometimes it hurts my feelings still. But, you know, you learn to laugh about it. And it was the really funny part about that statement she made about the song was that when I speak live and I tell this story, I actually stop telling that part because.
Because there are times where I'd tell that part where she comes back in the room and she's like, oh, it's a song you think I want. You know, and like some crowds would just think it's so funny. And then, but there were enough times where people would just look at me like, It's like you're ruining the song. Yeah. Because they want it to be like, she walked in the room and she fell into my arms.
Thank you. Yeah, I know. It's so funny. That would have been nice.
Now, I can remember the first time I heard it. Really? I remember where I was. I was on 59. Driving to the office, and it was started.
And I you know, sometimes you don't catch the words of songs, but you started singing. And I remember turning it up, cranking it. And I do remember tearing up because As a woman, that's exactly what I'm hoping. And as a man, I think it's like a prayer: like, God, I can't do it. But man, that resonated.
That's what I wanted Dave to do. Yeah. And I think that's what a lot of people are feeling. And I remember saying to Dave, like, you've got to listen to this new song because it was playing constantly. And then I was convicted.
Thanks, thanks. There's a lot of guys that have a love-hate relationship with this song. Yeah. A lot of times there are people coming up to me still. They'll be like, oh, I remember that song came out.
And I was, you know, I just, I just turned up the radio for my husband or sending it to him. And I'm always looking at him and I go, I'm sorry.
Sorry, not sorry, but sorry.
Well, it is interesting that you wrote it with two other men, you know, who can really resonate with what you're saying because it goes from. Yeah. Sarah's plea to I can't do this without you guys. You gotta leave me. It's beautiful, though, the transition.
Yeah. You, Chris, and Jason. Yeah, wrote. Yeah. It's amazing.
I wonder even of the conversations that occurred all around the world. After listening to that, we've had people get remarried. Are you kidding? They've written us and said it articulated my heart and I was able to share it with him. He understood it and then we got remarried, which we're like, whoa, wow.
Wow. Yeah. It really has. We've had a couple where it's divine. It is divine.
Both people have heard it and it brought them back together. I mean, just crazy. The craziest story I ever heard about this song was there was a woman who told me she was. about to leave her house. She's walking out like the back sliding door.
She's out of her house and she was getting ready to meet a man who she'd been having an emotional affair with for the first time at a hotel. It's a book. I read this, yeah. Yeah, and she just said that as she was walking out, lead me came on the radio in her house and she fell to her knees crying, repented, told the guy she never wanted to talk to him again, repented to her husband. Confessed everything and restored their marriage.
I mean, you hear a song like that, and you're like, by no means do I take the credit for that. What I get to say is, thank you, Lord, for allowing me to carry a song that you could use in that way. And it comes out of your own pain. I know. And he created purpose out of that pain.
And that was my heart's cry. all the time with the conflict. Please just use this. Like, what is this? And I it feels so useless.
And then for it to be used that way just feels like redemptive. Just yeah, so redemptive and a gift.
So. Wow And Sarah, had you not ever spoken up? Because that's the thing. I mean, I had spoken up a lot. Like, I have always been very direct about my feelings.
I love to feel close to him. And anytime I feel disconnected, I'm able to say, Hey, I feel disconnected. I'd like to reconnect.
So he knew that I had felt that way. But for some reason, you, well, you tell this story that I had told you that many times, but that was the time you could hear it. Yeah, what happened that time? I just think. Shh.
Sarah is very, very direct. Yeah. And I think that. In the same way, I'm sure I can come across in ways that I don't think I do. She's probably the same.
And so there's, I think, for a long time in our marriage, maybe I felt. Her tone might have made it hard for me to hear what she was saying without me feeling definitely attacked. I think there was something very different in her tone and demeanor that didn't show that secondary emotion of anger, but it actually showed her primary emotion to me, which is actual hurt. And I could actually see the hurt. It wasn't behind a shield, it wasn't behind a sword.
It was like she set all that down and let me actually see what was really happening. That right there is a great teaching point for all of us in conflict. Because so many times, Dave and I had fought, but I would like yell at him, like, you're never home. Remember if the woman said she doesn't yell, I did then. But he didn't hear that.
That's what I'm saying. Like, when we use our words as weapons, yeah, and it's harsh, and we can make our spouse feel like the enemy. Yes. There's something about when we can reveal our heart in a tender way that maybe opens the ears more. Because when I told you, like, I have nothing left.
That's the first time I feel like you really heard me. Yeah, and she didn't say it yelling, it was tender. Yeah. It's hard to get there, though, sometimes.
Well, I had given up. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Maybe sometimes you have to give up, you know. That's it.
Think about that, right? It's another thing. You kind of reach the end of yourself and you just don't have anything left. And it's like, and then you can actually exhale and go, oh, this is what we actually feel apart from everything we're striving for. Just you can almost see that, you know, it's, yeah, I don't know.
There's a picture there that's really interesting. Yeah. I mean, what happened then in your marriage after. The song, and I mean, your career takes off. Because people assume like it's an overnight beek.
Oh, everything's better. Yeah. Yeah. It doesn't usually work like that. No, I think, I think what I felt.
Was spoken to me through her words that I could articulate, that I felt like God was, as I asked the Lord to give me wisdom. I felt like he was telling me my good intentions were worthless until they became actions. And That journey is the one that I'm on today. That's what I call my lead-me journey, my journey of moving from being a man of good intentions to a man of action. Especially as the leader of my home.
That's the journey I started, but it was like the very beginning of me really pressing into that. And the craziest part about this is that the very song I wrote about being a more present husband and father comes out in 2010, goes to the top of the Christian music charts for three months, and takes me away from home even more. irony of the song. The beautiful part of that, however, is that over the course of the next five years or so, as we toured all around and doing amazing tours with amazing artists and getting to be in front of thousands and thousands of people. is that her words And that prayer of that song being sung back to me by thousands of people are also the words that ended up calling my heart back home.
So, you know, it's definitely a happy story in the end in terms of what that song did, even in my life.
So, and in 2016, I played my last show on a Love Like You Mean It cruise with Sanctus Real. Was that it on the show? The very last show in the middle of sea. Yep. And passed the microphone to the new singer, and he sang a song, closed out with their first song they'd written together.
So it's a very bittersweet moment for me. What was it like for you, Sam? And you know, it was complicated because I do, I love the band and it was my baby too, you know?
So it was hard to navigate. But It's been wonderful. I have my husband's my leader. He is leading us, and it's been amazing. Like the kids are there, he's so close to the kids.
Like, his relationship is unmatched, really. I mean, it's phenomenal. I mean, I watch it on Instagram. When you post stuff, my question is: is it as good as it looks? Because it is.
Yeah, it is. You know, because a lot of them are sort of fake. Yeah, yeah. And you know, that's sort of made for the post, but I can sense it's genuine. And you're saying it is.
Well, and I'm a truth teller.
So I was going to say Sarah would tell us. Yeah, I mean, is it perfect? No. I mean, there's some conflict with the kids, and we have young kids still. I mean, so we don't have.
Major issues Maybe they happen over time. I don't know. But so far, His relationship with the kids is phenomenal, and they feel very loved by him. And that's really what we what I wanted: I wanted them to feel to know their dad, to feel their dad's love and. For him to be present in their daily life.
And he is now. And so it's awesome. I mean, you've been home nine years. Yeah. Yeah.
I mean, at home, like, you don't do it. Totally. Yeah, I still travel while you're off the road. Like, still, even this year was what I would consider a very busy year. Yeah.
With speaking events and some of the music stuff I've been doing. But it still was like half of what I did was saying to spend time. You'll take a kid with you. He'll take a kid with a kid. Yeah, I'll take my kids with me.
Yeah. So we do, I plan special trips.
So if I know I'm going like, you know, a cool city or whatever, I'll plan like a day on the front end and back end and do it three times. We did really special things with them. This Valentine's Day, what if you skipped the roses?
Okay, that's fine.
Well, maybe not. And you dove into conversations meant to draw you closer. The ones you are secretly too scared to have. Yeah, Marriage After Dark is Family Life's newest podcast where a real married couple talks openly about healthy, God-honoring intimacy. Yes, the stuff you never ask your pastor or your friends.
And for more, go to familylife.com slash marriage after dark. because intimacy shouldn't stay in the dark.
Now, how hard was it? The day you decided, I mean, I know it was a process, but when you walked into the band, because they probably didn't know for sure. Because I'm thinking too, Dave, as you said that, because I've been thinking. Of listeners who have, like, maybe they're feeling that nudge, like, I just haven't been home. This job is tearing me away, whether it's a husband or wife.
Like that decision is a big one. Yeah, and there was a season where I felt. That I wanted to Get off the road. And it was a season of restlessness. And I felt the Lord still.
Speaking to my heart that he wasn't done with me yet in that season, as bad as I kind of like wanted to amend this divide that I felt with my family when I was on the road. And I hated the way that felt. And I knew that I wanted to please her and love her well and same with the kids. But I always look at each season of my life and you see the restlessness and then you see, feel the release. And it was like I knew that out of that restlessness, that there came a definitive moment where God was releasing me to go, even though it was like my heart, he was preparing my heart for it.
And so it was really, really difficult. I wanted to try to find a way to keep one foot in the boat, you know? Like, put, I like put my tiptoes in the water to walk to Jesus, but keep my one foot back in the boat and hope that was good enough for the Savior, you know? But no, he was calling me to walk all the way out. Those were almost the words I heard that I'm calling you out all the way out.
I knew that it wasn't a, hey, I can kind of be the singer of the band, kind of do a few shows and kind of. Of do this thing. I just knew that he was calling me to start a brand new season of life and ministry where my family was first and didn't know what he was going to do after that. But when you told, as Dave said, when you told the band members, yeah. Oh, it was really, really difficult, man.
They were sad. Very sad. Obviously upset. Obviously hurt. Obviously, we thought they thought we would go another 20 years and they're still going with this with the new singer.
And doing great. They're doing great. Yeah. God had a plan for that ministry to do what they're doing, you know? Yeah.
And ultimately, they were fine. Ultimately, they understood. Yeah, but in that moment, their journey. Oh, yeah. They're like, they're the singer journey.
They singer out. Yeah. Primary songwriter. It's like the huge part of the face of the band is just like gone. And I think they felt kind of derailed.
Like, what do we do now? We've spent so much of our lives building this. Probably fearful financially. Oh, yeah, absolutely. And I remember them that whole time.
I remember the weight feeling like. Lord. What is everybody going to do? All the crew, right? Like, you asked me to step away.
Like, we've got like 12 people on the bus with us. We've got lighting guys, and sound guys, and monitor guys, and tour manager, and bus driver, and all that stuff. We carry the weight of all that. Yeah, I remember thinking, like, what, what are all these people going to do? And it's funny, there was a point where I almost felt like if I could articulate what I felt the Lord was whispering to me, it would be, oh, you're the only child of mine that I love.
Yeah. Like, as if, you know, I remember he's like saying, I love all my kids. I'm going to take care of them, too. I'm going to take care of everybody. It's not yours to worry about.
I had this situation with a, I was leading a women's church ministry at our church, and I felt God calling me out of that. And I remember saying to this woman, like, I don't know what to do. I feel like God's calling me out, but I don't see anybody to replace me. And this woman, a mentor, says, Wow, you must be something. I said, What do you mean?
She goes, Well, if God can't replace you, then you must be really. It was so good, but so convincing. Like, oh, yeah. That can, he can choose somebody else who will do the same thing. It might be different, but it'll be good.
But I just need to be obedient to the call. Pick up Lead Me by Matt Hammett at familylifetoday.com. Click on the link in the show notes and it's a story and a truth that'll change your life as well. We know life is full of challenges and families today need biblical truth more than ever. Isn't that true?
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