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That's faithbuy.com slash give. Are you looking for a way to grow your relationship with God and with your spouse if you're married? Hi, I'm Rob West. If you're willing to put in some time and effort, there's a great resource to help you enhance your marital and spiritual relationships.
We're pretty excited about it. And Dr. Gary Chapman is here to explain it all, that it's onto your calls at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. This is faith and finance, biblical wisdom for your financial journey. Well, our guest, Dr. Gary Chapman, is a much sought after speaker, counselor, and author of many books, including those on love, communication, and personal growth.
The most famous, of course, being the five love languages. How to express heartfelt commitment to your mate, Dr. Chapman, a real privilege to have you back with us. Well, thank you.
It's great to be with you again. Well, of course, today we're talking about your resource, A Couple's Guide to a Growing Marriage, which is a comprehensive Bible study. You know, so often we can miss the opportunity to invest in our marriages. Why is it so critical for couples to spend time and effort working on their marriages? Well, you know, I think it's not only because of the value to us as a couple, but also the value to our children, and consequently the value to the community, because as the marriage goes, it's going to have a tremendous impact on the children, and as the family goes, it's going to impact the whole world. So yeah, I think, especially for Christians, because the Bible has a lot to say about marriage.
Yes, it sure does, and I appreciate this resource. Let me just say Julie and I went through it as a couple. It was really significant for us as you gave us that structure and intentionality once a week to sit down and work through some of these key areas in our own marriage, and I'm just so grateful for it and really excited about so many of you as our listening audience discovering this great resource. And you know, Dr. Chapman, a marriage relationship is a living thing, and it needs to be nurtured and fed like every living thing.
Wouldn't you agree? Yeah, I think, you know, marriages are either getting better or they're getting worse. They never stand still, and if we are just drifting and not giving attention to the marriage, we will drift apart. We don't ever drift together. We drift apart, and that's why I think it's so essential that couples be doing things on a regular basis to enrich their marriage and to work through whatever struggles they may be having.
Yeah. Dr. Chapman, give our listeners a quick tour through a couple's guide to a growing marriage. What will couples be doing when they do this Bible study?
Well, I am really excited about this study. Actually, it begins with an opening activity every week, and then a Bible study on a particular topic related to marriage and relating to our relationship with God, and then a learning exercise, which helps them put the biblical teaching into practice. And then we also have scripture memorization.
They're going to memorize a few verses as they walk through, which I found to be really, really helpful. And then throughout the whole 12 weeks, we're having a daily conversation with God, a sit-down time with God, and reading a chapter in the Bible and having a conversation with God. And we're also having a daily sharing time with our spouse. You know, a minimum is just, tell me three things that happened today, honey, and how you feel about it.
This is daily sit-down time. And then some of the topics, this is not all of them, but some of them are, you know, how to be understood and how to understand your spouse. That involves obviously communication.
And then how to express love in a meaningful way to meet that deep emotional need that we have for love. How to handle anger. You know, mismanaged anger destroys marriages. And many of us never learn how to handle anger in a positive way. And then resolving conflicts, because every couple will have conflicts because we're human.
We think differently, and we have different emotions. So really topics like that every week, working through those. So I really do believe if a couple will work through this, the 12 weeks, they're going to grow in the process.
There's no doubt about it. And Julie and I experienced that. I also appreciated Dr. Chapman so much that she and I developed new rhythms for how we communicate, how we come together, and how we share with one another on a daily basis that lasted well beyond our time in that study.
In fact, they continue today. It's also designed for a small group as well, folks. The study is phenomenal. It's called A Couple's Guide to a Growing Marriage. When we come back with Dr. Chapman, we're going to dig into one particular topic related to money that's covered in this study.
You're not going to want to miss it. How can money be an asset to a marriage? That and more just around the corner with Dr. Gary Chapman, back on Faith and Finance after this. As a faithful listener of the Faith and Finance program, you know that there is life-changing financial wisdom in God's Word to meet all your needs. More than anything, Faithfi is here to help you and millions of others see God as your ultimate treasure. As a nonprofit, we're grateful for our partners that help expand our outreach every month with their generosity. Has God provided financial answers for you through this ministry?
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Take control over your healthcare costs with a program from CHM that could save you up to 40%. Learn more and enroll today at chministries.org slash faithfi. That's chministries.org slash faithfi. Thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance. What a treat to have Dr. Gary Chapman with us today. He's best known for his book, The Five Love Languages, How to Express Heartfelt Commitment to Your Mate. Today we're focused on another resource from Dr. Chapman. It's actually one that Julie and I spent several weeks working through, and it made a profound impact on our marriage. It's called A Couple's Guide to a Growing Marriage, and I think this could be a game changer in your marriage. Before the break, Dr. Chapman gave us a broad brush overview of this resource, but I want to dig into one particular chapter of this Bible study, and you won't be surprised.
It's that chapter related to money. Dr. Chapman, this chapter is titled Making Money an Asset to Your Marriage. Why did you feel like it was so important to include finances in a marriage Bible study? Well, you know, I think because finances are a major part of marriage, let's face it.
The Bible's very clear. We work, we get money, and now we manage it, you know. In fact, the Bible says if you don't work, you shouldn't eat.
Yeah, that's right. That assumes, of course, you can get a job and you're physically able to work. But then managing that is a really important part of life as well as marriage. And of course, we were managing money as singles. Now we're going to manage money as a couple, and that can be very different because now we have two voices.
So yeah, I really felt like this is a major part for many couples, especially a lot of struggles in this area. Dr. Chapman, as you've counseled couples over the years, and obviously you've written extensively on this topic, what do you think is at the heart of the conflict that's so often present related to money and marriage? You know, I think a part of it is that we're human, and humans don't think the same way, and they don't have the same feelings about a number of things, and money happens to be one of them. And I think until we realize that, and we come into money as singles, single adults normally, we've been managing money and to some degree as a single, but we've probably been managing in a different way. And so we have one idea, and our spouse has the other idea, and we often end up arguing about this part of marriage. In fact, a lot of research indicates this is one of the major areas of conflict, this whole area of how to manage our money. Let's unpack this idea of understanding your spouse in this way around money, because we know that so much of the way we handle money today as adults was shaped in some of those early formative years, watching our parents and what they modeled, and whether money was plentiful or whether it was scarce.
And all of that informs how we handle it today, but when two become one and they have different backgrounds, they're wired differently from God, it's obviously a recipe for disaster. Unless you can understand and appreciate what your spouse is bringing to the table, how do you counsel couples pre-marriage and in marriage to really understand where your spouse is and make that something that drives toward unity, not disunity? Well, I think first of all, we have to acknowledge that we're likely going to disagree on this.
So let's sit down here and listen to each other. Tell me what your perspective is on how much money we ought to save, for example, every month, or how much money we ought to give away, or how are we going to handle the money? Just a whole lot of questions, as you well know, about handling money in a marriage. And many times, couples have really not discussed this before marriage. I encourage them to discuss it before marriage, and in premarital counseling, I help them go through some of these things so that they're kind of going in on the same page, you know? But there are going to be things, even if you talk about it beforehand, that when you get in there, you're going to realize, oh, wait a minute, we agreed to this.
Oh, oh, oh. So listening to your spouse with a view not to argue with them, but with a view to understanding their reasoning, their ideas, on whatever particular topic it is related to money. And if we understand each other, then we can say, okay, now, obviously, we disagree with this, but let's just decide how we're going to handle it. And we're looking for a solution, rather than trying to win an argument with our spouse. Yeah, that's well said. Dr. Chapman, how important is financial fidelity and transparency in marriage?
I think it's extremely important. I had a lady say to me the other day, she said, you know, Dr. Chapman, she said, my husband went out, and on our credit card, he put $4,000, and he never, ever discussed it with me. And she said, I just can't, I can't live like this.
I can't live like this. So you know, if we're not being open and honest with each other, about how we're spending, you know, our access to the money, it can be a huge, huge problem. We have to be open and honest about this.
Yeah. As we talk about this resource, A Couple's Guide to a Growing Marriage, what does this chapter help couples do as they come together in the area of finance? Well, I think it helps them, for one thing, to make a fundamental decision on terms of, are we going to follow the biblical pattern of at least beginning by giving 10% of all that we receive to God? And sometimes that's an easy thing, because sometimes there were Christians before they were single, and they've been doing that, and that's no big problem. For others, one of them may well say, well, I can't imagine that, you know, 10%?
I mean, what, what, what? But agreeing on, you know, how much are we going to set aside to give to God? And then how much are we going to save? What percentage of our income do we want to save? And then what are we going to do with the money we save?
Why are we saving it? And then obviously, who's going to keep the books? You know, who's going to balance the checkbook each month?
And who's going to get paid, make sure the bills are all paid? And that may be one or may be another. And of course, we have different abilities. And typically one of us might be better suited to do that, to keep the books and balance the checkbook and so forth, than the other person. So what we're realizing is we're on the same team.
Now let's find what part each team's going to play. We're not enemies. We're here to work as a team.
Yeah. Dr. Chapman, what communication rhythms do you suggest for couples in this area of money and money management? Well, you know, I think if they have that daily sit down and listen time to each other that we discussed earlier, and that's what this book helps them to develop, a time that they sit down every day and share life with each other, then in that daily talk, sometimes money questions are going to come up. But I think if we are struggling in a particular area, then we need to say, let's just set a time that's good for both of us, when we can sit down and really look at this and try to understand each other and make some decisions that will help us in this area.
Because if we don't have a sit down time and focus on whatever struggles we're having, they're not going to go away just with the passing of time. We have to listen to each other and we have to make decisions about how we're going to handle it. And you can say, let's try this for six months.
And if it doesn't work well, then we'll talk about it again. But let's decide what we're going to do, at least for the beginning part of our marriage. Chris Smith How would you describe the win here if a couple's willing to do the hard work, willing to invest in their marriage, willing to use a resource like a couple's guide to a growing marriage?
What's the vision for what's possible? Dr. Ed Young They're going to have, I think, the marriage they wanted when they got married. You know, what we were expecting was to be to have a marriage where we are loving each other, we're supporting each other, we're encouraging each other, we're helping each other, we're working as a team, seeking to accomplish what God has in mind for our lives together as a family.
And also, I think the other way, if you have children, is you're giving the children a model of how a husband and wife work together in the financial area, as well as other areas. Chris Smith Yeah, that's well said. Well, we're going to have to leave it there for today, Dr. Chapman. But thanks for taking the time to be with us and for putting together this great resource for couples. God bless you, my friend. Dr. Ed Young Well, thank you, Rob.
Great to be with you again. Chris Smith That's Dr. Gary Chapman, author of A Couple's Guide to a Growing Marriage. All right, your calls are next. The number 800-525-7000.
That's 800-525-7000. I'm Rob West, and this is Faith and Finance, biblical wisdom for your financial journey. Stick around. What's most important to you when it comes to choosing your financial advisor? Someone who's aligned with your biblical values? How about someone who will take the time to explain your options? Certified Kingdom Advisors are professionals who meet high standards in competence and integrity, and have been trained to offer biblical financial advice.
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For licensing information, please visit nmlsconsumeraccess.org. Great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance. I'm Rob West. We're taking your calls today at 800-525-7000. Looks like we have just a couple of lines open, but if you have a financial question, we'd love to tackle it with you. You can call right now.
Let's go to Chicago. Amelia, how can I serve you? Hi, Rob.
Thank you for taking my call. I have a friend who is buying a house a year and using it for Airbnb. He's profitable.
I'm just concerned about what they're talking about the economy and the changes might happen. So I was wondering your thoughts and maybe an exit strategy. Yeah. How much debt is he taking on on average per property? I don't know his numbers, but I imagine he's doing conventions, maybe 20%. So I imagine he has 80%. Yeah.
Yeah. Well, you know, the various changes in the economy and the housing market obviously could make what has been something that's very attractive in the past more challenging. So for instance, if there was an economic downturn, we'd see reduced travel and tourism. So in a recession or an economic downturn, discretionary spending on travel often declines that would lead to fewer bookings, lower occupancy rates and reduced income from the Airbnb properties.
You're also typically in an economic downturn going to have unemployment, which leads to lower disposable income. You know, we currently are in a high interest rate environment. So the extent to which he's borrowing a good bit to get into these properties, obviously the carrying costs on these while these rates are higher, make that more expensive. And then, you know, we just have to watch the housing market conditions. So if you know, with these very high property values, we started to see which we are in certain pockets of the country, especially those that were driven up, you know, more than the rest of the country, because maybe they're in a particular area, that's a vacation friendly area. If we see those property values decline, then you know, we're going to have a depreciating asset here, leaving less equity, and that makes it harder to sell or refinance.
And so you just got, you know, some some challenges related to that, especially if he's using a lot of leverage or debt to make these purchases. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of owning real estate and owning it for the purpose of generating income. Because, you know, you get the tax deductions, you get the ability to, you know, create an income stream that can hopefully, you know, offset the carrying costs. You know, there's a lot of benefits to having a diversified income stream, especially when you can cover the cost through the rental income, and the property continues to appreciate because over time, the rental income is helping you paid off the debt, and now you've got an appreciating asset.
Hopefully, that's free and clear at some point, and you could have quite a portfolio, you just need to make sure you're not getting overextended. And he needs to evaluate whether, you know, changes in the economy given that we've got a pretty robust economy right now that could turn down. That's going to have significant implications for vacation rentals, number one. But number two is, if he's been buying them with property values very high and interest rates high, if the, you know, rates don't come down as quickly, or he's locked into higher rates, and we see some of these property values declining and therefore translating into lower rental rates, then you know, that could hurt him. And all of this comes down to just how leveraged is he, which is why I generally recommend you, you know, go into your primary residence, maybe with 20% down, but with a rental property, you probably want 50% down. And the reason is that way you could weather an economic downturn where maybe your occupancy rates decline, and you're still okay, you're not, you know, at the risk of a foreclosure. But obviously, I've thrown a lot at you there, Amelia, does that make sense?
It does. Thank you for that insight. I was wondering, is there an exit strategy that you might recommend should the economy, you know, tank? Yeah, I mean, I think the key is, you just need to look at the overall debt that you have. And one option is, especially while housing prices are still very strong, and again, most economists are not expecting any kind of bubble that bursts or anything like that, I think, you know, we're probably, you know, for most of the country, just going to see a leveling off of the increases, and then maybe declines only in certain pockets of the country where they kind of got ahead of themselves with building too much property, you know, new projects, and or where they had dramatic appreciations, because, you know, they were in a hot area, and it's, you know, cooling off and catching up. And maybe some of those prices are coming down.
So just be careful there. I think, you know, the key is to start maybe unwinding some of that one property at a time. And if he were to liquidate a few of these properties, while the economy is good housing markets high, and use that money to pay down the debt of some of the other properties, you know, that would be, I think, a great option. This is what you'll hear Dave Ramsey talk about my friend, Dave, who is very well known in this space, he this happened to him in the early 90s, where he found himself with a house of cards and a recession, you know, can cause this whole thing to collapse. So it's not necessarily time to sound the alarm, but always a good idea to look at reducing debt levels, if you can. Thanks for your call, Amelia. Let's move quickly to Iowa, and we'll finish up with Jolene.
Go right ahead. Hi, my husband and I are dairy farmers. My husband is 60 years old. And we have an operating line of credit, we have a capital line of credit.
And those you use as you need. And, you know, at times, we are able to pay some off, but then we end up with having to borrow back just with the nature of dairy farming. Yes, we've not been able to make progress on those lines, as we should the last couple years. Now, years ago, when a couple years when things are good, we did put some money in a Roth IRA under his name. It's not a whole lot of money. But right now, especially with our lines of credit, our interest rates are now eight and a half percent. We were thinking of taking those Roth IRAs out and taking that money, putting it against our line of credit.
So we have a couple questions about that. The first is, with it being a Roth IRA, there should be no tax consequences to that. Are we correct in that? That is correct. You can always take your original contributions out at any point without any tax or penalty because you already paid income taxes on it. So they're delighted for you to take it out and not get the tax benefits in the future. Now, with the growth, the portion that beyond what you put in, because the market has grown with that, as long as that account has been open for five years, and you're over 59 and a half, you can take that also tax free and penalty free. Yes.
Okay. So then even from a regular IRA, we could take our original amount put in? No, that's only for the Roth. With a traditional IRA, you got a deduction when you put it in. And so even the first dollar, you're going to pay tax on it as income when it comes out. The only question is whether you pay the penalty.
You would not have the penalty because you're over 59 and a half. May the Lord bless you. Thanks for calling today. Folks, that's going to do it for us. So thankful for the folks that make this possible every day, Sandy and Devin, and grateful for Jim Henry as well, and everybody here at Faithfi. Hope you have a great rest of your day and come back and join us tomorrow. By the way, if you'd like to support Faithfi and the Faith and Finance broadcast, you can do that online quickly and securely at faithfi.com. Just click Give. Lord bless you. Bye-bye. Faith and Finance is provided by Faithfi and listeners like you.
