Before we start the podcast, we want to announce a new resource to help you discover what it truly means to be rich toward God. We've just published a study based on the parable of the rich fool found in Luke 12, 13-21. Journey through this challenging yet life-giving parable where Jesus invites us into a more abundant life with Him. Just go to faithfi.com slash give to request a copy of the Rich Toward God study today with your gift of $25 or more. That's faithfi.com slash give.
Thank you in advance for your support and partnership. 2 Corinthians 9-6 says, I am Rob West. God's word repeatedly challenges us to be generous givers to our families and to the kingdom. When should we do this giving?
Are we waiting too long? Ron Blue joins us today with an idea you may not have thought about. And then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000.
That's 800-525-7000. This is faith and finance, biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. Well, our good friend Ron Blue is the co-founder of Kingdom Advisors and a prolific author and speaker on Christian personal finances. Ron, great to have you back with us. Well, Rob, I always enjoy it. Look forward to these brief moments.
Well, I do as well. And I have so many Ron Blue quotes that roll around in my mind. And one of those that I've heard you say countless times is that you do your giving while you're living and I'll let you finish it. So you know where it's going. There it is. Ron, what does our audience need to know about this statement?
Well, there's a lot. One is that, you know, if you're going to get your children, for example, seeing how they handle the money that you give is not a bad idea in preparation for your wealth transfer or estate plan. And another big reason to say this is enjoy what God has given you. And there's no more greater joy, I think, than seeing somebody helped by having the resources that God has entrusted to you.
So we give a lot just cash and somebody that's working in a bathroom in an airport, for example, and go up and give them $20. And when you see them light up, you get the joy of giving. And I've got countless stories on that, but enjoy the bounty that God has given you and also do a little bit of testing on your giving as to where it might end up after your death. That's such great counsel, Ron, and I love what you just said, because so often we might think about our wealth as, well, I'm going to, quote, enjoy it, which means, you know, take trips and, you know, do things that would create memories.
And yes, those are enjoyable and there's nothing wrong with those things, but perhaps we've missed the greater joy that can come from being involved in God's activity, and maybe we just haven't thought of it that way. Well, you know, it's a very real thing, and I've never met an unhappy, generous person. And there is great joy in being able to give.
Well, you see the results, not that you're manipulating anybody, but you're giving them a gift that means something to their life. And that goes with charities and with children. Yeah, there's no question. Now, Ron, in order to do that giving while you're living and accelerate it beyond that cash giving, it really requires that you define your financial finish line, doesn't it?
Absolutely. And really the only people that give maximally, Rob, that I've seen over the years is when you have a finish line, you know when you're done. And then you have to ask the question, well, what do I do now? And if you have a finish line, it frees you up many times to give. My good friend Bob Buford, who was a very wealthy layman, he said to me one time after I spoke, he said, Ron, he said, I figured out what I needed to live the rest of my life, doubled it and gave the rest away. Well, that's one approach. But he had a finish line.
Yes, he sure did. Now, Ron, what about getting the kids involved in that giving during your lifetime? I think that's an ideal thing to do. I know an awful lot of families that include their kids.
You know, that could be around the dinner table or breakfast table and talk about maybe some needs. Maybe your church is asking you to make a pledge, whatever the giving is maybe that's going on. Your kids need to see your generosity. I had a father tell me one time, I had made a statement to him, more is caught than taught when it comes to kids.
And he said, I realized because I do online giving, they had never seen me give money anyplace. Wow. Well, maybe this is the time to change that. Ron, it's a great idea. It's an important lesson for all of us. And we appreciate you sharing it with us today. Thanks for stopping by. Well, I love it, Rob. Thanks for asking. That's Ron Blue, our good friend.
You can read more on this topic in his landmark book, Splitting Errors. Your calls are next. 800-525-7000.
That's 800-525-7000. And if you prefer not to call, keep in mind, you can always send us an email at AskRobAtFaithFi.com. I'm Rob West and this is Faith and Finance, biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. We'll be right back after this break.
We'll be right back after this break. For more information, visit KingdomAdvisors.com. That's KingdomAdvisors.com. Great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance. This is where we offer biblical wisdom related to financial decision-making, looking to God's Word and the Council of Scripture to apply to our financial decisions and choices, recognizing God owns it all and we're stewards, money managers for the King of Kings. Our goal, faithfulness to what has been entrusted to us, each faithful to his or her ability, what God has given to us to be responsible for. We want to be obedient to his Word, holding it loosely, giving generously, not finding our value or our worth in the things of this world, in money, but in God himself as our ultimate treasure, managing money as a tool to accomplish God's purposes. We do that each day on this program.
Our goal, to be helpful and encouraging, to be reverent as we think about rightly dividing Scripture, but also to be practical and wise in how we can help you make decisions. So, what are you thinking about in your financial life today? Give us a call, 800-525-7000. We've got lines open. Autumn, standing by to take your calls today, 800-525-7000. We'll get you on the air quickly. Let's go to North Carolina. Hi, Victor. Go ahead, sir. I wanted to know, do you have pamphlets or a printout about giving to the church or tithing?
You know what? I'd be happy to send you a book by Randy Alcorn that addresses this topic on the tithe. It's called Money, Possessions, and Eternity. I'll tell you, Victor, other than God's Word, this is the book that has had the largest influence on me personally throughout my journey around the intersection of God's Word and finance. And there is a concerted section in there around the tithe, even though you'll see when you get it.
It's pretty thick. It covers a wide range of financial topics from a biblical viewpoint. But certainly the tithe is addressed, and I'd be happy to send you that as our gift to you. It's called Money, Possessions, and Eternity. But is there something particular you're wrestling with related to the tithe?
Well, I wanted to teach our congregation more about tithing, on tithing, and on giving to the church. Yeah, very good. I love that. And I think, are you a pastor?
I am. Okay, excellent. You know, I think being able to lean into that and really search the Scriptures yourself, come to your own convictions. You know, I think the tithe, in my view, is a great guideline, drawing from the Old Testament tithe. There was multiple tithes, as you probably well know, for the Israelites.
But pulling that forward and applying that to New Testament giving, which is systematic and proportionate, starting with the local church freely, sacrificially, as an act of worship, is the right approach. Stay on the line. We'll get your information. Let's talk to Hollis in Georgia next.
Go ahead. Yeah, sir. We have a farm, and I have three children, and I have two that farm, and we're trying to get a wheel fixed up. And I have life insurance to pay off the debt on the, where we put up some irrigations, and my boys have helped me with that. So I kind of knocked that out of the picture when I go to figure land values up.
And I've got three children, and I got a rental house, which I was going to give it and a hundred acres to them, and the rest of it to my boys, because they have invested and they have done a lot of work. Yeah. Is this an active farming business, Hollis?
Yes, sir. They farm, it's in there, they rent my farm from me, because I got another business, and we all live on the farm, or close to it, and I didn't want to use a trust, because if I die first, my wife will be in charge of it. And as of right now, I have about two million dollars worth of life insurance. All right. Why did you decide against a trust? All the expenses and stuff goes along with it, that's why. All right.
Yeah. Well, I get that there's some expense, but I think the benefit of using the trust in combination with the will is to help ensure an uninterrupted transfer of this farming business to the farming heir. And so that's where an experienced attorney can really help ensure, first of all, the assets are distributed according to your wishes, but there's a plan, a continuity plan, so the farming operations can continue, and it's an uninterrupted transfer, which is where the trust really shines. Yes, it's a little more expensive, but it can ensure that if you're incapacitated, even prior to your death, or at your death, or at the death of you and your wife, if you want her to remain in control until then, then you're not waiting for the probate process, the probate court to get involved. It can immediately pass to the heirs based on how you want the assets divided, and that's where a combination trust and will can be very effective, especially in a situation like you're describing.
Yes, sir. My thing is, it's kind of a, if my wife winds up with everything when I die, she knows how I want it done. If she doesn't do it, her children are not going to be very happy with it. She don't want to stand that chance.
Do you see where I'm coming from? I do, but all of that can be spelled out in the trust. The decisions that you and your wife make now can all be spelled out in the trust and really decided in advance on exactly how this is going to go down, regardless of whether she passes before you, you before her, and ultimately how it gets transferred to the boys. And I do have some term insurance, which my insurance man converted to universal insurance, where I have enough when my $2 million term runs out to pay off the irrigations and stuff like that. So she won't be with a burden. I rent them the land now.
All right, very good. Well, it sounds like a very well thought out plan. I just think that the expense of a trust is going to be worth your while because so much of this can be put in place in advance, and it's just a little bit more flexible than a will will be, and it avoids the probate costs and time of the probate court. And so you can decide again, before your death, if you're incapacitated, how this is handled at your death, even beyond your death, how the assets are to be distributed and what the instructions are for the trustee, whether that's you or your wife or the boys after both of you pass, how they're to distribute the assets, including continuing the farming operation.
So if it were me, Hollis, I'd take all this great work you've done and all this planning and work with the boys and all the decisions you've made, and I'd visit with a godly estate attorney who can build off of your will, add a trust and make sure that all of this passes according to your wishes, and I think you'll be glad you did. If you need a godly estate attorney in Georgia, just contact the CKA in that area and ask for a referral. You can find one at faithfi.com. That's faithfi.com.
Just click find a professional right there at the top of the page. Hey, may the Lord bless you, sir. Thanks for calling today.
Folks, we're just getting started today. You know, when we think about the topic of wealth transfer, the key question for the Christian is, is the next steward chosen and prepared? Keep in mind that inheritance is going to take the life trajectory of the heirs and accelerate it. Are they ready to receive the wealth, and in the event their life trajectory is away from the Lord or it's away from financial maturity, think about the possibility that this inheritance could accelerate that. And so how do we prepare that next generation to receive it?
And or do we want to limit the amount of inheritance and perhaps give it away or both? And that can change over time. So I think that's the thing to think through. And here's one of the other questions. What do I expect will happen when I leave this money?
And what's the worst thing that can happen? Think about that. We'll be back with more of your questions after this.
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That's chministries.org slash faithfy. Great to have you with us today on faith and finance for taking your calls and questions today. Eight hundred five two five seven thousand.
That's eight hundred five two five seven thousand. You can call right now. Let's head to Oklahoma. Kent, thanks for calling, sir.
How can I help? Hi, I've got a question. I'm looking at purchasing some land and paying cash for it, but I am looking at putting it into a irrevocable trust. So that way when I pass, it can just go right to my children and grandchildren and not go through probate court or have all the taxes and fees and everything that, you know, happen when somebody dies. Sure.
Yeah. So you're probably talking about a revocable trust as opposed to an irrevocable trust. The difference being that with a revocable trust, you can still accomplish what you're describing, which is the efficient transfer of the property outside of probate. But with an irrevocable trust, you lose control over that asset. So if at some point you wanted to change the beneficiary designation. Well, there's not a beneficiary, but you wanted to change how it ultimately was transferred at your death.
You wanted to have control over the property to sell it. I mean, all of that is gone in an irrevocable trust. But with a revocable trust, you have control over it. You can make changes to it during your life, but you can still handle the efficient transfer. Is that perhaps what you're looking for?
Yeah, that's what I'm looking for. But now with the revocable trust, does that keep, you know, all the, you know, like inheritance tax and everything, does that keep all of that away or will there still be some of that tax? There still would be tax on estate tax. The challenge is that, you know, right now there's no estate tax, at least at a federal level, until you get above a $13 million estate. So, you know, you just have to make sure that it's worth the expense, that you are actually going to have the estate tax before you would make a decision, I think, to put it in an irrevocable trust, which has, you know, certain things that you're going to bring along with it. Not only the cost of putting that irrevocable trust together, but just that loss of control, I think, comes with a price.
And you need to make sure that, you know, you're in a situation where that's actually going to apply. Now, once the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act expires in 2025, going into 2026, depending on what happens in the election in November and so forth, that $13 million is likely going to drop to $5 million. But even then, if you don't have an estate above $5 million, you're probably not looking at estate taxes.
And so that's probably, you know, not an issue. So I would talk to an estate attorney before you made that decision. You also could do a different type of tool, what's called a transfer on death deed, which is allowed in Oklahoma.
And it's not available in every state, but it is in Oklahoma. And this would be a much more cost-effective way for you to transfer the property to another person or other people to receive the real estate without going through a probate. And you wouldn't have to go through the expense of creating the trust.
So that's another way. Think about it like a beneficiary designation on an investment account or a life insurance policy. Whenever you have a beneficiary designation, it passes outside of probate, it doesn't go according to your will, it goes straight to that individual. The same is true with property when you have a transfer on death deed.
So that would be another more cost-effective way if, again, you're not concerned about estate taxes. Yeah, the property I'm buying is going to be in Texas. Okay, all right. Yeah, so I would need to look about whether you can do that in Texas.
Let me just see here real quick. Yes, it is permitted in the state of Texas. Okay. So I think that would be the next step is for you to talk to an attorney. I am not an attorney.
We're talking about just kind of general ideas here. So I think your next step is to get with an estate attorney. Talk about your goals, both with regard to estate taxes, if that's going to be an issue. It likely won't. With the efficient transfer of the property, it's your death.
And then determine whether a revocable trust does make sense or whether you can accomplish it in a simpler, less, you know, more cost-effective way. Okay. All right?
All right. Thank you very much. You're welcome, Kent. Thanks for calling today. God bless you, my friend. 800-525-7000 is the number to call us. Go to Mississippi. Hi, Diane.
How can I help? I have $400 and I don't know if I should put in my IRA that has $2,000 in it or my husband's IRA that he has $80,000 or put $400 extra on my mortgage. Okay. Great, great question. So you said you have $400 just kind of sitting around. That's correct?
Yeah. Okay. And let's talk about, even before we talk about the IRAs and your mortgage, what I call your emergency fund, Liquid Savings. How much do you have there? I have $3,000. Okay. And what do you all spend on a monthly basis?
I don't know, but we make $2,800. And do you usually have a little bit left over? Yeah, we have about $800 left all the time. Okay.
Got it. Yeah, I would, I mean, if you're spending $2,000 a month, which is what it sounds like, I'd love for you to have at least $12,000, Diane, in Liquid Savings. Now, the good news is today you can do a high yield savings account and that, you know, is paying 5% a year. So you can get a decent rate of return, at least right now, while interest rates are higher. But I'd love for you to have more than that $3,000 in savings because that's only going to give you a month and a half worth of expenses. And if you had some major expense that comes out of left field and you put it in your IRA, you'd have to pay taxes on it when it comes out. And or if you put it on the mortgage, you no longer have access to it. So, you know, given that it's $400 and if you were saying, Rob, you know, I've already got $12,000 in savings, then I'd say, great, let's, you know, either throw it in the IRA and reduce your taxes a little bit, get more working for you, or let's put it against the mortgage.
Either of those could be great options, but just given the fact that you only have $3,000, I'd leave it right there and just add it to your savings if it were me. Okay. That feels good. Okay. Thanks, Diane. We appreciate your call today. May the Lord bless you. Let's tackle some emails today.
By the way, Jared sent this recently. He said, we recently discovered some stock certificates from 1970 that my grandparents own. How can we find out whether these certificates have any redeemable value? Let me tell you, Jared, first, you just want to check to see is the company still traded on a stock exchange?
You can do this at many major financial websites. You can also try to contact the certificate transfer agent, which should be listed on the certificate itself. Now, if the transfer agent no longer exists, you'll want to contact the state agency that handles incorporation where the company was established. That office may provide a way to search online for information on that company. Many public libraries also have reference materials for old stock certificates. If all that fails and you have a brokerage account, you can ask your broker if they can help you determine the value of the certificates. Provide that CUSIP number.
That's C-U-S-I-P. You'll see that printed on the certificate, and hopefully they'll be able to help you. I think you'll get there. It may take some legwork, but thanks for writing to us. By the way, if you have a question, send it along.
AskRob at FaithFi.com. Folks, that's going to do it for us today. We covered a lot of ground. Thank you for calling and for inviting us into your stories, and we always love for the opportunity to be alongside you. Thanks to my team today, Taylor, Devin, and Robert. We'll see you next time. Bye-bye. Faith and Finance is provided by FaithFi and listeners like you.
