What's most important to you when it comes to choosing your financial advisor? Someone who's aligned with your biblical values. How about someone who will take the time to explain your options? Certified Kingdom Advisors are professionals who meet high standards in competence and integrity and have been trained to offer biblical financial advice.
To find a Certified Kingdom Advisor in your area, visit faithfi.com and click Find a CKA. Jesus looked at them and said, With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible. Matthew 19, 26. Hi, I'm Rob West. Sometimes a financial problem like a huge pile of debt can seem insurmountable.
And it could be if you try to solve the problem alone. Sharon Epps joins us today with a wonderful story about what can happen when you surrender your finances to God. And then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000.
That's 800-525-7000. This is Faith and Finance, biblical wisdom for your financial journey. Well it's always fun and educational, I might say, to have Sharon Epps with us on the broadcast. She's of course President of Kingdom Advisors and never at a loss for interesting insights to share. Sharon, great to have you back. Thanks, Rob. Sharon, last time you gave us some biblical principles for debt. And we're going to continue that discussion today. And I know you have a really inspiring story.
And so I'd love for you to share that. But first, remind folks about how money can be used. We can boil it down to a simple four, right? We certainly can. This is the Live, Give, O, Grow pie. And if you remember, a pie is the symbol we use because you have to divide it up and it's limited in the number of pieces you can serve.
That's right. So we want to remind you that we've talked about the fact that debt can be dangerous. Compounding works against you. That's an economic danger of debt.
It also presumes on the future and may deny God an opportunity to work. That's a spiritual danger of debt. And finally, it can add anxiety and threaten marital unity, a psychological danger of debt.
So those are things we need to consider when we want to borrow. The Lord even told us that in Proverbs 22, 7, the rich rule over the poor and the borrower is slave to the lender. Now I want to tell you a story, and this one's so important to my life as I watch this couple, Matt and Lisa, who were going to get married a few years ago. Lisa had no debt, but Matt was bringing $50,000 debt into their marriage. But God lit a fire under Matt. He decided, I'm going to trust God with my money and I'll do whatever it takes to get out of this mountain of debt.
In fact, he said, God, I'm going to seek your help on this. And he began to tithe at the same time. Now the math seems kind of weird, paying off $50,000 and doing that with only 90 percent of his income. But Matt took a couple of jobs and moved in with some roommates in a less expensive living situation so he could pay more on the debt. So while Matt and Lisa were engaged, he paid his debt down $8,000 to $42,000. So just as they were married, Lisa took a job at a church in California.
In fact, their honeymoon was driving from Georgia to California. Matt had a master's degree, but listen to this. He took a job at a restaurant, certainly not his dream job, so he could pay down the debt.
He worked there with a great attitude and kept getting promotions. And one day, Matt was talking with the guys in his life group who were so moved by watching the way that Matt was going after paying his debt and trusting God that one of them pulled Matt aside and said, Matt, I want to give you $5,000 to help you pay down that debt. And Matt said, there's no way I couldn't do that.
And the guy said, no, here's the thing. God's blessed us and we want to bless you. So this will give us joy. Well Matt was overwhelmed, went home to tell Lisa and she began to cry and told him that she was so moved by watching him handle his obligations this way. She had been praying and felt like God had whispered, I'm going to help you, you're not alone in this. And she had written down the number $10,000 in her journal thinking maybe God was going to send $10,000 to help them. She said, you know, I guess I got the number wrong, but God really was faithful and helped us. Well, Matt and Lisa shared this story with another couple just for the joy of it. And the couple came back later and said, Matt, we want to give you the other $5,000 so the $10,000 really is what God gave to you. And Matt said, I can't let you do that.
You shouldn't do that. It's not your debt. This is my debt.
And here's what the guy said to him. No, Matt, your debt got paid on the cross. This is just money and money is just part of living in the kingdom and part of what God gives to us and we use it for eternal perspectives. So they gave it to him and the life group cheered them on. Matt and Lisa paid off $50,000 worth of debt living in the most expensive place in the world in less than two years.
Incredible. Well, I can't imagine setting the stage any better around this idea that God wants to work in our financial lives if we'll invite him in. So we're going to continue to talk about how you can approach your debt from a biblical perspective and invite God into that journey.
Sharing apps here today. I'm Rob West. This is Faith and Finance.
We'll be right back. What's most important to you when it comes to choosing your financial advisor? Someone who's aligned with your biblical values? How about someone who will take the time to explain your options? Certified kingdom advisors are professionals who meet high standards in competence and integrity and have been trained to offer biblical financial advice.
To find a certified kingdom advisor in your area, visit faithfi.com and click Find a CKA. We're grateful for support from Guidestone, whose diversified suite of investment solutions align with Christian values to create positive change in the world. More information is available at Guidestonefunds.com. Investing involves risk, including potential loss of principal. Carefully consider the investment objectives, risks, charges, and expenses of Guidestone funds before investing. They're distributed by Foresight Funds Distributors, LLC, which is not an advisory affiliate of Registered Investment Advisor, nor do they provide investment advice. I'm so thankful to have you with us today on Faith and Finance.
I'm Rob West. Joining me today, Sharon Epps, president of Kingdom Advisors, frequent contributor here on the broadcast. We're talking about living, giving, owing, and growing, the four things you can do with money. But specifically, today, Sharon's joining us to talk about the owing category. Sharon, before the break, you were establishing that debt can be dangerous economically, spiritually, even psychologically, but God wants to work in our financial lives. You shared a powerful story about a young couple that you knew personally, Matt and Lisa, that paid off debt. God was amazing at how he allowed his people to intersect into that story and help them pay it off. And I know there's a bit more to the story, isn't there?
There is, and this might be my favorite part. So Matt and Lisa, as we mentioned, paid off $50,000 of debt in two years on a pastor and a restaurant salary. So let me remind you of that. So once they got freedom from debt, what do you think the next thing they did was? Well, the very next month, they were aware of somebody else in their life group who was also struggling to repay debt. And so Matt and Lisa felt like the best thing they could do is sit down and write a check to that person and give the money away that they were saving from not having to make their debt payments to the other person that was trying to pay their debt. And they were able to say, God loves you, we love you, and we want to help you get out of debt. And so to me, when we invite God into our financial life, and when we surrender our finances to Him, you go on a spiritual adventure that nothing else can replace.
I suspect that won't be the last time they do that either, now that they've been the recipient of it. And now they've experienced the joy of doing it themselves, which is just the way God's economy works. Sharon, as you kind of pull back from this story and look at it from the bird's eye view, what are some observations maybe you can pull out of it? Well, you know, one of the first things I want to say is a testimony is a story of someone else's life. And we never want to say that God will work exactly in your life the way He did in their life. But what we can say is the same God is working in your life.
But there are a few observations from their story that I think we can take away. The first one is trust God first with your giving. I think all of this journey started with Matt saying, I'm going to put God first in spite of the fact I have this mountain of debt, I'm going to give in obedience and then see what God does. I think the second thing is be faithful with your part.
And sometimes I think we miss on this one. We don't ask ourselves, what am I willing to sacrifice to make sure that I'm able to get out of debt? Matt took two to three jobs to be able to do this. This is a guy that had a master's degree and was serving as a waiter at a restaurant to say, I'm this dedicated to getting out of debt. And then finally, allow others to help when needed.
Now, if you're paying off debt, you may not have a friend that writes a check for $5,000 like they did. But there are ways that people want to come alongside you and help you. They want to pray for you. They want to encourage you.
Perhaps they might even have some good ideas about how you might make some additional money. So as we invite other people into our journey, you never know how God will use them. That's so true. We don't want to be prescriptive about this, but I love the part of the story where even in the midst of paying down a significant debt, he continued giving along the way. And we get questions from folks about that very issue all the time. Should I continue giving when I have obligations that are massive?
How do you respond? Well, I think absolutely so. That's a way we indicate to the Lord that he's still first.
And you may need to prayerfully consider the amount, but I would say in every single case, and I think the example of the widow's mite tells us that Jesus honors when we give what we have. That's well said. All right, Sharon, we love to share principles on this program because we want our listeners to be wise decision makers and principals help us do that. So what are the principles that really undergird this topic of debt?
Well, if you listen to this program regularly, you've probably heard these, but let's recap them. And the first one is when I decide about borrowing, I want to make sure that the economic return is greater than the economic cost. So if I am borrowing for a meal out to eat, for example, and I'm not able to pay that off in the very same month, then I'm at a loss because what I've purchased is definitely not going to give me a return greater than the cost. Second thing is you need to be sure that there's a way to repay the amounts borrowed.
And that way may be from your income, it may be from your savings account, it may be from other assets that you own, but you want to make sure that there's truly a way to repay. And I think one of the cautions that I see is, especially in credit card debt, sometimes in student loan debt, is we borrow with a hope for a way to repay, but we may not have a concrete way. Yeah, or we may be too overly optimistic about our ability to pay. And when we're honest with ourselves, we realize, you know what, we really are just hoping this will play out.
That's so true. Now, the third one maybe should be first, and that is your spouses need to be in agreement. God has given us our spouse to be wise counsel and to help us sort through these issues. And I would encourage you that if your spouse is not in agreement about borrowing, that's an absolute warning sign. It's a red flag.
Don't do it until you've worked through the scenario. And that probably leads me to the last one, and that is we really only want to borrow when there's no other alternatives. Borrowing may deny God an opportunity to work, and it's amazing what he does sometimes in the waiting as we wait to hear from him. Now, somebody may hear you say that, and I have said that before as well, this may deny God an opportunity to work, and they may say, wait a minute, God can do whatever he wants, and yet what we're saying is we want to invite God in, and we can try to do it in our own strength.
That's right. We want to rely on his strength, on his answers, and he'll give that to us as we seek counsel first from our spouse and then from others on what we should do. All right. Well, we love a good tool around here at Faithfi, and we have a brand new one to tell folks about, don't we?
We do. I am so excited to announce the new Faithfi debt assessment. In fact, I'm going to go ahead and give you the address right now. It's faithfi.com forward slash debt, and let's talk about what this assessment will do. Basically, you can go on there, fill in the various debts that you have, and it will give you the opportunity to determine how you want to pay it off.
So there's many different methods. In fact, I've heard us talk about do we pay the highest interest rates first or do we pay the smallest balance first? This assessment will give you the opportunity to select, and I think this is a good time to say each of us have a different approach with money, and this debt assessment takes that into account. The assessment is available today.
Go to faithfi.com forward slash debt to take it, and I think you'll be amazed at the tool that it gives you and the resources on top of that to learn how to pay off your debt. Yeah, Chad Clark, our executive director, and his development team have been working on this, and I've not seen them this excited about something in a while. They're so thrilled, and they're just loving getting into the numbers and building this tool. They think it's perhaps unlike really anything else that's out there, and I've found Sharon that unless you have a plan, you can get stuck in not taking your next step, and perhaps this is what someone needs to get going.
I think sometimes it can feel like a black cloud over us, and part of the way that we break that black cloud is information and a plan. I love it. Sharon, it's always great to have you here. Thanks for stopping by today.
It's great to be here. That's Sharon Apps. She's president here at Kingdom Advisors, and folks, if you'd like to take advantage of this brand new tool, just go to faithfi.com forward slash debt. That's faithfi.com forward slash debt.
I'm Rob West. This is Faith and Finance, back with your questions just around the corner. The number 800-525-7000.
We'll be right back. We are grateful for support from Soundmind Investing and the Faith and Finance Program. For more than 30 years, they've been helping Christians reach their financial goals with step-by-step guidance for investors at every stage, from those just getting started to those getting ready for retirement. Through scriptural principles and practical suggestions, SMI offers financial wisdom for living well.
More information, including the short video webinar on profit and peace of mind, no matter what's happening in the market, is available at soundmindinvesting.org. Are you struggling to fit your faith into your practice as a Christian financial advisor? The Certified Kingdom Advisor designation teaches you a step-by-step process to confidently deliver advice that aligns with Christian values, discover the skills you need to help your clients make a kingdom impact. Get started today by enrolling in the CKA educational program at kingdomadvisors.com slash get certified. That's kingdomadvisors.com slash get certified. You're listening to Faith and Finance, where we talk about how we handle God's resources.
How are you using God's resources? We're talking about it, and the lines are open to take your calls and questions. 800-525-7000 is the number to call. Let's head to Montana. Hi, Molly. Go right ahead. Hi. Thank you for taking my call. My husband and I live in Montana, and our daughter is in Queen Creek, Arizona, and we...
I think it was five years ago. They were putting up a housing project, and she was going through a divorce. So we... My husband decided to go ahead and invest and purchase a house down there for her and our grandson, and he's the only one on the house. And so we thought it would be a good idea to...we've been told to do something like a quick claim deed, and so that the house didn't have to go through probate if something happens to him, and just wondering what that process would entail. Yeah. Well, this ultimately becomes a legal question, and so I'm not an attorney. You're always advised to get legal counsel in these matters. We can just talk generally about these issues, though.
So give me a better understanding of this. So who actually owns the home? My husband and I, and our daughter is like...she pays rent every month. Okay. So you and your husband are on the deed filed with the county? No. He's on the loan paperwork, and nobody else is.
Who is he? Your husband? My husband, yes. Okay. Your husband is on the loan, but who's on the deed? Well, he is on everything. Nobody else is on anything, and we thought in order to...like with him being the only one on the property as owner, what would be the process so that it didn't have to go through probate if something were to happen to him?
What would be the best thing to do at this point? I see. Yeah. There's about 30-some thousand owing on it. It's a home that's worth over $400,000. Okay. Got it.
Yeah. So the most efficient way to transfer that property is through what's called a transfer on death deed. And the transfer on death deed is not available in every state, so you would have to see whether it is available in the state of Montana.
I'm just looking here quickly, and it looks like it is available. So that's a pretty simple way where essentially a real estate attorney would help you with that. You would move this over to a TOD deed, which means transfer on death. It would be refiled with the county, and what that just simply means is you would select the beneficiary, and upon your husband's death, because he owns the property, it would transfer to whoever was named on that TOD deed, and that would happen outside of probate. The other approach is to put it inside of a revocable trust, or what's called a living trust, and that just simply allows the home to be retitled in the name of the trust, and then again at his death, or if it's in both of your names, at both of your death, then the trust would distribute that asset, either sell it and distribute the proceeds or whatever the trust documents say in an efficient manner, and that would also happen outside of probate.
You wouldn't want to use a quitclaim deed unless there was a specific reason to, because if you just go ahead and gift this property to your daughter and son-in-law, then they're going to inherit your cost basis, which just means when they sell it, they're going to have to realize the profit based on what you originally paid for it, as opposed to them inheriting it through a TOD deed or a trust, and that would allow for what's called a stepped up basis, which just means that the new cost basis to determine capital gains tax would be the market value of the property as of the date of death, which just allows them to miss out on the capital gains tax on the profit. Does that make sense? Yes. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So I think your next step here, if really your main issue that you're trying to solve for is just the efficient transfer of this asset at death to your heirs, you're going to want to visit with an estate planning attorney who can help you sort that out.
Whether that's a TOD deed, which is an option in Montana, it would be fairly simple to do, or a living or revocable trust, which would probably cost you a couple of thousand dollars, but would allow you essentially to pass not only this property, but other assets outside of probate in an efficient and orderly manner. Okay? Okay. All right.
Thank you so much for your help. You are very welcome. We appreciate your call today, Molly.
God bless you. 800-525-7000 is the number to call. We'd love to hear from you today with your financial questions. Again, 800-525-7000.
Let's see, to Lewiston, Idaho. Victor, go right ahead. Yeah. I was wondering, I got about $150,000 in my 401k and I was wondering about moving it into an IUL. Yeah. And what are you trying to accomplish with that IUL, Victor?
What's appealing to you about that? It just has where I can borrow against the amount that's in there. If I need money for, say, buy a pickup or something, then it doesn't touch the principal.
It stays there. That's one point. Yeah. You certainly can borrow against an index universal life. That is true. I guess the downside that I wouldn't be as excited about is just there's a cap on the returns. So, you know, often these companies, these insurance companies will set what's called a maximum participation rate of less than 100 percent, so you're not going to get the full upside. There's no guarantees, so they often include maybe a guaranteed interest rate with a whole life policy.
But with an IUL, it's based on the index that's selected. And then there's a lot of fees and other costs, premium expense charges, administrative charges, riders fees, commissions, surrender charges, and you don't any longer have full access to your money if you need it. So I think that one benefit that you mentioned of being able to borrow on top of, of course, you know, the fact that, you know, you've got some other flexibilities, maybe a floor on the downside. I think that's a pretty big trade off for what you're giving up in the way of cost, lack of access to your capital, and the limited upside potential. So for that reason, that's not going to be my favorite option. If you like it, I'm not one who says never is there a place for an annuity or an insurance product like this.
I just would rather see you leave that money outside and roll it to an IRA, have full use of it when you need it, invest it exactly the way you want to, and not have some of the complexities and costs that come with an insurance product. That's just me, but hopefully that gives you some food for thought. Thanks for calling today. Well, once again, our time went by way too fast, but tune in next time and we'll do it all over again. Before we go, I'd like to thank our incredible production team, Amy, Devin, Jim, Robert, Randy, Rob, and Ben, couldn't do it without them. Have a great rest of your day and I'll see you again next time for another edition of Faith and Finance. Faith and Finance is provided by Faithfi and listeners like you.
