Give thanks in all circumstances, under your calls at 800-525-7000.
That's 800-525-7000. This is faith and finance, biblical wisdom for your financial journey. Okay, so today we have high inflation, high interest rates and student loan payments starting again. We might be tempted to think, what do we have to be thankful for? Well, you might be surprised to learn when Thanksgiving became a national holiday. Of course, the Puritans first set aside a day of Thanksgiving in 1621, but it didn't become official until 1863. In October of that year, just three months after the horrendous battle of Gettysburg that cost 50,000 American casualties, President Abraham Lincoln signed a proclamation to establish the fourth Thursday in November as a national day of Thanksgiving. Those were hard times, much worse than anything we're experiencing today. Yet President Lincoln still thought it appropriate to offer thanks to God, as the Bible calls on us to do.
He also called on citizens in all parts of the country to pray that God would heal the nation's wounds. Now, about those Puritans in the Plymouth colony of Massachusetts, they didn't exactly have smooth sailing leading up to the first Thanksgiving in 1621. Plymouth Governor William Bradford would later write of the first year in America, all great and honorable actions are accompanied with great difficulties, and both must be enterprised and overcome with answerable courage. The Puritans had intended to get to the new world early in summer, in time to put in a crop and build houses before the onset of winter, but their voyage was delayed when one of their ships, the Speedwell, proved unseaworthy. They had to turn back and load her passengers and supplies aboard what then became a very cramped Mayflower.
Also, the crossing itself was much rougher and took longer than expected. They didn't arrive in the new world until November. Planting was impossible and a harsh winter delayed the building of the first houses until late January. All of that resulted in what became known as the starving time for the Plymouth colony.
102 Puritans had crossed over on the Mayflower. Nearly half of them died that first winter due to disease and starvation. Bradford would later write of it, it scarce able to bury the dead. But spring finally came and those who'd survived had established good relations with the Native Americans who helped them plant crops that eventually became a fair harvest in the fall. That brings us to the first Thanksgiving in November of 1621 when the Puritans celebrated and praised God for their survival.
So many of them had died that they were outnumbered at the feast two to one by their Native American guests. Joyful as that day was, William Bradford didn't forget those who'd perished the previous winter, and to mark the event he used a passage from Hebrews 11. All these people were still living by faith when they died. They did not receive the things promised, they only saw them from a distance, admitting they were foreigners and strangers on earth. They were longing for a better country, a heavenly one. Therefore God is not ashamed to be called their God, for he has prepared a city for them. Many have forgotten why the Puritans dared to venture into the harsh new world in the first place. Persecuted for their faith in England, they had fled to Holland first, but English authorities pursued them even there, leading many to risk the perilous voyage to America. They came for religious freedom, something that we still enjoy today and should always be thankful for. Bradford would later write of those times, "...thus out of small beginnings greater things have been produced by his hand that made all things of nothing, and gives being to all things that are, and as one small candle may light a thousand, so the light here kindled hath shown until many." More than 400 years later, we live in a time of great wealth, and it can mislead us into thinking that we're responsible for it. God's word says it isn't so. Deuteronomy 8 18 reminds us, "...you shall remember the Lord your God, for it is he who gives you the power to get wealth, that he may confirm his covenant, that he swore to your fathers, as it is this day." So that's why we wish you a happy and grateful Thanksgiving, hoping you'll take time to thank God for all of the blessings you enjoy. Stay with us.
We'll be right back. We are grateful for support from One Ascent Investments on the Faith and Finance Program. They manage a comprehensive suite of value-based investment strategies designed to help Christian investors live aligned with what they value most. One Ascent believes that if your values inspire the way you live, they should also inspire the way you invest.
This can be a unique form of worship. More information is available at investments.oneascent.com. That web address is investments.oneascent.com. Welcome back to Faith and Finance. I'm Rob West. Let's head back to the phones. By the way, we've got two lines open, 800-525-7000.
To Fargo, North Dakota. Hey, Dennis, thanks for your call. Go ahead. Hi, Rob. Good to meet you. And you as well. I listen to you every day.
I've got to get my Rob fix. Oh, I love it. I really appreciate your godly advice. Well, thank you. That's very kind. My question is about long-term health care and giving while you're living. What do you wrestle with on that?
Sure, go ahead. Yeah, just being able to afford both. We don't have long-term health insurance. I'm 74.
My wife is 69. Both of us are pretty much retired. We still do a few things and we're pretty good health. But like I say, we don't have long-term health care insurance.
We have no debt. Our houses pay off and we have some retirement income and we have investments. So we're okay, but the thing is, without the insurance for long-term health care, we could eat up our savings pretty quickly. Yeah, so you're just wondering how to think about that season of life in light of the potential for long-term care? Yes, and along with you know, I read the book Splitting Errors and been listening to you about that topic and decided that we would make some changes in our will and trust and that sort of thing and do some giving while we're living. But that reduces our nest egg that much more.
Yeah, no doubt about it. Well, I'll tell you, the exciting thing is this becomes a faith journey, doesn't it? And ultimately we place our trust in the Lord and yet we want to be prudent planners. We want to save appropriately. And I think that's a key word that requires you to go back to the Lord in prayer and say, Lord, how much is enough? And I think that was the question you mentioned to Gabby T. today when she answered the phone that you're really just wrestling with how much is enough. And I love the idea that, you know, as Ron Blue says in Splitting Ears, do your giving while you're living so you're knowing where it's going. And I think that's a great philosophy.
But the tension that we live in, what is the balance between giving and accumulation, especially as we head into this season of life? And as you are pointing out, there's this kind of looming potential major expense on the horizon for you called long-term care because 75 or 70 percent of 65 year olds and older will need long-term care at some point on average usually for two to three years. And that could be $5,000 a month, it could be $9,000 a month. I mean, it just depends on what type of care you need and whether you need skilled care in a nursing home and so forth. So, you know, I think the key is just to really make that a matter of prayer and I think seeking wise counsel.
Of course, you're doing that today. I think you could also visit with an advisor who could look at that and help you calculate, okay, you know, if we need long-term care, you know, what's the average we might spend and for what period of time because typically you don't need long-term care for that long. You know, you either don't need it or when you do, you need it for, you know, a couple of years on average and, you know, eventually the Lord takes you home. So, you know, I think there is a planning function of this that actually kind of runs through the math and says, okay, how much do we have in investable assets? What income needs do we have beyond our guaranteed income sources that aren't ever going to go away? And what does that mean for our withdrawal rate against our retirement assets? And then we can run some scenarios and let's say both of you need, you know, long-term care and an average of $6,000 a month for two years. Well, there's a math equation that tells you how long you're, you know, whether you'd be able to cover that out of your current assets.
And then you could back into ultimately what you might consider to be excess once you define that financial finish line as a part of that planning process. And then you could say, we're going to give it away. Now, ultimately, that's all an act of faith. Any giving that we do is an act of faith because we say, Lord, we trust that you're our provider.
We know all of this could be reduced to rubble in an instant. And so we event, you know, we want to take a portion of what we've been entrusted and we want to give it to you. And we're trusting by faith, you know, that we're, you're going to continue to provide, you're going to be prudent in that. But ultimately, I think that's a decision between you and your wife and the Lord as to how much you can actually give away prior to death versus how much you feel like is prudent, you know, to keep invested so that you could offset this potential risk that's coming down the road. So I think a combination of prayer-wise counsel and the financial equation actually doing some planning based on some scenarios that you all think are realistic, that in the middle of all of that, you know, God will give you all peace of mind around what the right approach is for you. And I don't think anybody at the end of the day can tell you what that is. That's ultimately between you and the Lord.
Does that make sense? Yes, we've been praying about it. We've talked to our pastor about it. And we haven't talked to our financial advisor, but he's assured me, assured me that we're okay. You know, I've done the math and using your scenario, for two years, that's 144,000, and times two, you know, times both of us, so that's about 300,000. That would use up about a third of our net worth. Well, a little less, maybe 25%. And then if we give some money away, not more than, you know, 100k or so, you know, that reduces it a little bit more. And then the unknown is, well, 6,000 a month is somewhat low because, well, there's a range there.
I have some friends in Faro, North Dakota that, you know, you think it'd be less expensive in the north, and they're paying over $10,000. Of course, that's for memory care. So, you know, we're just wrestling with a number of things here, and we're, you know, we've been giving. We're past the training wheels, as you call them, and we funnel our R&D directly into charities. So, you know, we're not going to, now that we're not bringing in any income from a job, we're not going to reduce our giving. As a matter of fact, we're wanting to increase it a little.
So, that's where we stand. I really appreciate the suggestion about the advisor because that's one right in front of me that I haven't really used, other than as we were doing the math to see if we had enough money to live. We have plenty of money to live. We have a surplus every month from, you know, our income with the Social Security and pension. Well, and that's a good place to be, and maybe what you do is you increase that and you take it up to $9,000 a month, which is what full nursing care would cost these days. You know, you run that for two years times two of you, that's around $430,000.
Sounds like that wouldn't even be half of what you have today. So, I think you can begin to marry the financial equation, prudent, wise planning, with trusting the Lord and your desire to give generously, and God will really confirm what it is you're supposed to do. Hey, God bless you, Dennis. Thanks for raising this question today. It's a good one, and for your kind remarks about the program.
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That's eventideinvestments.com. If the heavy burden of debt is robbing you of freedom and peace of mind, Christian credit counselors can help. We're a nationwide nonprofit credit counseling organization that has helped over 300,000 individuals in the last 27 years get out of credit card debt 80% faster, while honoring that debt in full. To learn how Christian credit counselors can help you, visit christiancreditcounselors.org.
That's christiancreditcounselors.org, or call 800-557-1985. Welcome back to Faith and Finance. I'm Rob West. Let's head right back to the phones to Moscow, Idaho. Hi, Jesse. Go ahead. Hi, Rob. Thanks for taking my call. I have a question.
Well, a block of so many questions. I am a sole proprietor, business owner, self-employed, and my family has gone through a litany of medical issues since December. My daughter was in a life-threatening accident. She's okay.
Thank Jesus. And then I myself ended up with sepsis in January with ongoing neurological problems since that. And then my husband was in a motorcycle accident in April and compound femur break and multiple surgeries. So far, our emergency fund is now exhausted. I am, because of my health, I am dissolving my business.
So I am not currently making an income. So we're trying to figure out, my business carries about $18,000 in debt, which has been paid off, like been worked at paying off until this point. And I'm wondering, should we look at the option of consolidating the business debt? We also do have about $12,000 in personal debt that we've been chipping on as well. But with all of these crises happening all at once, if that would be an option for us, or if there's another option, or if we should possibly borrow from our house and roll into there, it's at a 2.5 interest rate. And we have a bit that, I mean, if we did it all rolled it into that, it would cover all of it.
Just to breathe a little, we're kind of like, what do we do? Yeah, no, I appreciate that. So have things stabilized a bit, Jesse? I mean, I realize now you've lost your income. So, okay. So what are you, what is your... Medical bills are still ongoing. Okay. All right. And so those will continue to climb.
We still have stuff that's currently adding up. Yeah. And then what's the income situation like?
My husband is employed and he's full-time. And he's pretty secure, hopefully. Okay. Yeah.
As long as there's nothing else. Sure. Yeah.
And so apart from... Max is my baby now. Yeah. I know, I understand that.
So apart from new medical bills, are you all able to cover your monthly expenses and service both of these debts, the 18 and the 12? No. Okay.
All right. And are there any assets in the business that you're closing down? I am attempting to sell everything. And it's just a kind of a waiting game. It's, my business deals with animals.
So I can't just, I have to keep them alive while they're in my care before they can go find new homes. And that's been really, it's been a struggle. Yeah. No, I can understand that.
But you know what? I mean, it's been a struggle. Yeah. No, I can understand that.
Do you have a sense of what you might be able to generate once you are able to sell off the assets? Right now, my condition is not, we don't have a diagnosis yet, and we don't have any prognosis. So I'm just kind of still winging it and still have some pretty severe health issues ongoing. Yeah. Sure.
I'm so sorry to hear about that. Well, once you have relocated all the animals, do you have a sense of what you might be able to generate through the sale of business assets? If I'm able to liquidate my business, it should pay off all of the business debt. I might not have any more, not a penny more than that. And at this point, it's like, okay, whatever. But at least that would be no more debt. And is that something that could happen relatively quickly?
I would hope so, but it's not. All right. Well, I mean, I think that's obviously the priority because what I don't want you all to do, I certainly don't want you to touch that two and a half percent mortgage, but I also don't want you to take this personal debt or business debt and now secure it to your house. So if things were to get worse, all of a sudden, we're putting your home at risk.
I mean, I realize it will take the pressure off because we're extending it out over, you know, whatever it would be. I mean, I wouldn't again, do a new mortgage and take that two and a half up to seven. But if you did a home equity loan, and you, you know, had a 20 year payback, I mean, that could take some pressure off. But now we've taken unsecured debt, we've secured it to your primary residence, and I just don't like that. And we don't have a long term solution currently to some of the challenges that could create more financial difficulty along the way. So I think the key is to try to, I mean, we want to try to protect your credit, but you can only do what you can do.
And so I think you all do whatever you can possibly do. I understand your health may prevent you from, you know, doing anything to bring income in. Perhaps your husband can try to pick up a side job temporarily just to get through this season. I mean, is there some other way to raise income to keep that debt current?
Try to quickly relocate those animals. If you know that you can't continue with the business, get those assets sold, try to at least pay off that business debt, and then just focus on getting your budget as lean as possible to attack or at least service that personal debt. Is it credit cards? Yes, and my husband would probably pick up a second job if he was not walking on a broken femur. Three or four of us have been down and out since December. Yeah, I'm sorry to hear that.
Well, let's do this. I want to connect you with one of our certified Christian financial counselors who can just help you kind of look at everything in detail and walk alongside you to see if we can help you get pointed in the right direction. You know, thank goodness for the, you know, we're grateful to the Lord for that health insurance that you have. And, you know, I think if we can rein in spending, perhaps your husband, you know, is, you know, able to get back on his feet, literally, and, you know, perhaps pick up a second job to service that debt, our friends at christiancreditcounselors.org can help get you one level monthly payment for that debt, probably two to three percent of the total balance, you know, so at $12,000, you know, we'd be looking, you know, at maybe $360 a month. I realize that's not insignificant, but if you could swing that, especially with the lower interest rates they could offer, we can at least help get, you know, that going in the right direction. I think the key would be, let's try to do this without touching any of the equity in the home.
Obviously, things get dire, you know, you could look at selling the house, I mean, although that's not necessarily going to solve anything because of what's going on in the housing market, and then you'd pick up another smaller place at a much higher interest rate, and so, you know, now the affordability just becomes a real problem. So, I'm going to have you stay on the line, we're going to get your information, and I'm going to have one of our Christian Financial Counselors call you. We're going to cover the cost for this, Jesse, and this will just be somebody who can really help you go through the numbers and work with you and your husband together on a plan, you know, week by week on where we go from here, okay? Okay, thank you very much.
All right, happy to do it. You stay on the line and we'll have somebody pick it up and get your information. Kathy and Mary Lou, I really apologize, we didn't get to you. If you all want to stay on the line, we'll see if Tahira can get Tahira can get your information, we'll get you scheduled perhaps to be first on tomorrow's broadcast.
I'd be delighted to chat with you. Folks, thanks for being along with us today. On behalf of my team, Dan Anderson, Tahira Haynes, thank you for Lynn, and Jim Henry, couldn't do it without him. I'm Rob West, this is Faith and Finance. If you're not yet one of our financial partners but would like to be, would you visit our new website, faithfi.com, that's faithfi.com, then click the give button to sign up. We'd certainly be grateful. In the meantime, please set an alarm on your phone and make plans to join us again next time. I'll be here, Lord willing, and I hope you will be too for the next installment of Faith and Finance. Faith and Finance is provided by FaithFi and listeners like you.
