Jesus and the Wealthy With John Cortines

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I am Rob West. If we begin to think of ourselves in the top 1%, how will that affect our financial decisions as stewards of God's resources? John Cortenez joins us today with some interesting insights about Jesus and the wealthy. And then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000.

That's 800-525-7000. This is faith and finance, biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. Well, our guest today is my friend John Cortenez, the director of generosity at the McClellan Foundation and the author of two books on biblical giving. John, it is so great to have you here today. Thanks for having me on, Rob. John, you spoke at the recent Kingdom Advisors Conference and told an amazing story about some friends of yours and an inheritance decision they made. I'd love for you to start with that story. Well, this was incredible. Yeah, I've got some friends who are a very sharp young couple in their 30s, and they got some news from his father that he was about to give them a huge multi-million dollar inheritance, which sounds kind of amazing.

Yeah. But they've been reflecting very carefully on money and their faith for months actually, been on this journey with the Lord. And they ended up saying, hey, we're so grateful for this, but we're actually already okay.

And we think if we got this money, we'd start to rely on the shifting sands of wealth for our security instead of the firm foundation of Christ. And so, long story short, they worked with his dad to put that money to work in God's kingdom through giving. And I was just blown away by that decision.

I'm not sure I would have done the same thing. What an incredible story. And it really shows the kind of decisions we can make when we think of ourselves as already wealthy. Now, John, you talked about the three ways that Jesus interacted with wealthy people and how he seeks to interact with us today. So, I'd love for you to share that with our audience.

Absolutely. So, if we go through the four gospels and find all the times Jesus interacted with a wealthy person, it happened more than you might think. And he had this amazing pattern that was three things, love, invite, and challenge. So, for us in our wealth today, Jesus loves us, he invites us, and he challenges us. You know, Jesus also said you can't serve God and money. And if we think about it, money promises us pleasure, possessions, protection, position in society, but it can't give us those things in eternity. We have to look to God for that.

Oh, that is so true. And you called out the parable of the rich young ruler, where Jesus challenges the rich young ruler to sell all of his possessions and give everything to the poor. Now, Jesus isn't necessarily challenging us in that way, but how would you say he is challenging us? That was definitely a unique challenge from Jesus to the rich young ruler, and he might ask you or me to do that, but we should note that's the only time in Scripture Jesus tells anybody to sell it all. Zacchaeus, as another example, gave away half of his wealth. Peter left his boats and changed careers to follow Christ, and Nicodemus spent a fortune on the burial spices for Jesus after the crucifixion to honor the Lord and go public with his faith. So, I think the beauty of this is it will look different for each of us as we read Scripture, as we listen to the guiding of the Holy Spirit, but what we can be sure of is that God will challenge us to mobilize our wealth in this world to bless people and to bring him glory.

Yeah, there's no doubt about that. So, John, share with us just a few ways that we can use our wealth to honor the Lord and bless others. Well, we want to invite people ultimately into a deeper right relationship with God and others, and I just share four quick ways where we can do that. Number one is family, you know, taking care of those we are responsible for is godly and right. Number two would be generosity. You know, Scripture's so clear that we're called to invest money into God's kingdom work all around the world and in our local communities.

And then third would actually be hospitality. In today's culture that's more and more isolated, it's a radical and good step to open our home and share meals with people and the love of God. And finally, this applies for some of us if we own or control a business. God calls many of us to employ others in a great job and a healthy God-honoring work environment, and doing that is a godly and good decision. And each of these four are ways where we can use our wealth for the benefit of others, and that makes us richer spiritually as well.

God is with us in that. Well, we're just about out of time today, John, but I'd love for you to leave us with perhaps a practical way that people can learn more about biblical generosity. Well, there's an awesome ministry that actually works closely with kingdom advisors, and they've got video stories of Christian givers and amazing teachings that could be an encouragement to anybody that wants to learn more.

They're called Generous Giving, and if you just go to generousgiving.org, you can find dozens of sermons and stories and resources, and all of that is available for free. Oh, that's incredible. Well, John, thanks for stopping by and challenging us with these insights you gleaned right out of God's Word. Grateful to have you, my friend. Thank you, Rob. That's John Cortenez, Director of Generosity at the McClellan Foundation. Again, if you want to check out that resource John just mentioned, go to generousgiving.org. Back with your questions after this, 800-525-7000.

We'll be right back. What's most important to you when it comes to choosing your financial advisor? Someone who's aligned with your biblical values?

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More information, including the short video webinar on profit and peace of mind, no matter what's happening in the market, is available at soundmindinvesting.org. We're grateful to have you with us today on Faith and Finance. We're taking your calls and questions today. With lines open, you can get right through right now, 800-525-7000.

That's 800-525-7000. Give us a call. All right, let's dive into those questions today. I know the lines are filling up, and we're ready to dive in. We'll go up to Chicago.

Ted, I think you're with us. Go ahead, sir. Hey, how you doing? I'm doing great, thanks.

Okay, so I have a quick question for you. I'm actually retired, but I have a 401k from a previous employer that left about maybe 15 years ago. I was wondering if I should take that 401k and move into an IRA to have more control over it, and then where do I begin to move it then?

Yeah, very good. You know, you're exactly right in terms of getting more control over it, because you certainly will have that when you roll it out to the IRA. It's going to open up your investment options. It's going to give you more control over the cost structure. It's going to allow you to decide, do you want to manage this yourself or do you want to hire an advisor?

Let me throw out three options for you. As you think about rolling that out to an IRA, option one is more of an automated solution. You could look at a robo advisor, like the Schwab Intelligent portfolios or Betterment that would use ETFs to build you a low-cost portfolio and then it would automatically reinvest if you add new contributions to the IRA. A second option, kind of a middle of the road, it's soundmineinvesting.org and the SMI newsletter would let you do it yourself, but they'd give you mutual funds. And then a third option if you have over $75,000 would be to hire a certified Kingdom advisor and you can find one of those at our website, faithfi.com. Just click find a professional, but you're on the right track here, Ted. I like this idea a lot. Thanks for your call.

Let's go to Texas. Hey Mike, what are you thinking about today? Well, my question is, okay, I have about $50,000 with Vanguard in an IRA account and another $20,000 with FOIA in a 401k. And up till about three years ago, I was making real good money with Vanguard with my IRA account, but about the last three years, it seems like I'm going nowhere with the investments I had in a targeted retirement account. I gained a little bit and I'd lose a little bit and gain a little bit, lose a little bit, and that's all it was doing.

So I put it all into money market and I was just wanting to know if you had any suggestions, like what type of account I could put it in to start making some gains. Yeah. So the total you've got that you're talking about here, Mike is about $75,000. Is that right? No, about $70,000. I got $50,000 with Vanguard in an IRA account.

It's traditional. And then another $20,000 with FOIA in a 401k. Okay. So $70,000. What is your age? I'm going to be 64 come this November.

Okay. And are you still working? Yes, I'm still working. And plan to for the foreseeable future? Yeah, I want to work as long as possible so I could raise the limit of the social security.

It goes up 8% every year that you work. That's right. 65 or past 62. Yeah. Well, if you take it before full retirement age, which is somewhere between 66 and 67 for you might be 67.

Yeah. Then you're going to get a reduction from your scheduled benefit based on your work record of about 8% a year. For every year you wait beyond full retirement age.

So probably between 67 and 70. You're going to get 8% a year added to it. And I'm a big fan of that if you have the ability to keep working, stay productive, let that check continue to grow. That's just going to make solving for your monthly spending need easier because you could end up with a check 25% higher than what you would have gotten at full retirement age.

So I like that a lot. Are you continuing to contribute to a retirement plan currently? Yes.

All right. And so that's a different 401k with a current provider. Is that right? Yes. There's a company match that they'll put 5% in as long as I put 5% or higher.

Right now I'm putting about 8% in. Okay, great. Yeah, I love that. What about rolling this into that? Have you looked at that option?

Which one? The Vanguard? Oh, like rolling it into the 401k? Yeah. Yeah, no, I haven't thought about that.

Okay. Well, you know, here's the thing. I mean, listen, you've got time on your side in the sense that if the Lord tarries and you're in good health, we need to plan for this money lasting to call it age 95. And so then that gives you a 30 year time horizon on this. So, you know, I wouldn't be as concerned about what's happening in the market over a one, two or even a five year period, because we're looking at this in decades. And if we take that approach, I mean, what you've been dealing with lately is in the last couple of years is in that target date fund, I suspect that you were across the broad market of bonds, which were under pressure because interest rates were climbing and the bond prices were falling. And then you were in probably a broad market indexes, which really the leaders drive in the market were a very small group of high growth tech stocks, you know, what they call the magnificent seven, even though it wasn't only limited to that, and we've seen the breath expand at the end of last year, and it's continued to the broader market. A lot of the growth in the last couple of years that we see reflected in the big indexes, like the S&P 500, and the Dow Jones are related to those big, high flying growth tech stocks. And so if you weren't highly concentrated in those, which I wouldn't have encouraged you to be, you didn't see as much participation in the upside of the market.

So those two factors, I think, were what you were experiencing with the ebbs and flows of the up one month down the next. But if we look at this in broader brush, you know, approaches, like decades at a time, I think the very best place for you to be is in high quality growth, and in bond portfolios, probably with the amount of money we're talking about roughly 70,000 through mutual funds or ETFs. Because that way, you can get a good mix of, you know, of stocks and bonds.

I mean, at your age, I'd probably like for you to have about 45% in stock. So you've got a good growth component, remembering that, again, we're not just looking at your retirement date at 70, let's say, we're looking at this money needing to last for three decades. And so because of that, we need this growth engine in there, that even though it's going to have more volatility, and it could be down over a year or two's time, if we're in a recession, especially, that we're looking long term, and that's what's going to help you overcome inflation, and then 55% in, you know, bonds. And as the interest rates start to come back down, the bond prices will increase on top of those really attractive yields. And that'll make for a nice portfolio. So you could do that through a target date fund, you could do that through a robo advisor, like Wealthfront or Betterment or the Schwab intelligent portfolios, or you could hire an advisor to pick those for you. I think it just depends on how much you know how hands on you want to be versus hiring somebody else to do it. But I think long term, that's going to be your best chance of building wealth, even though you have to just recognize you're going to have some volatility, you know, in the meantime, but it should be less than if you had an all stock portfolio, just because that bond portion should smooth it out a little bit. And again, as rates fall, and they will over time, you know, that's going to help to push the bond portion up because those bond prices will increase.

But I've thrown a lot at you there. Give me your thoughts. Yeah, that makes sense. I don't plan on using any of that money unless it's an emergency. I don't want to use savings like a regular savings account at a bank.

I only use it in an emergency. Now that makes sense. Let me give you three options as a next step. One is you go to a robo advisor like Betterment or Schwab intelligent. Second is our friends at soundmindinvesting.org and the SMI newsletter could give you mutual fund suggestions that you'd buy yourself. Or third, you could find a CKA to manage it at faithfi.com.

So one of those three will be a great choice. A quick break and back with more questions after this 800-525-7000. We'll be right back. Absolutely free. We know you've learned to be suspicious of those words, but really, you can get biblical financial wisdom delivered to your inbox each week absolutely free. Articles, videos, podcasts, and special offers on biblical resources. Nearly 60,000 people receive our free weekly wisdom email and you can too.

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Principal loss is possible. Foresight Fund Services LLC. Hey, great to have you with us today on Faith in Finance. Hey, if you want to find a certified kingdom advisor in your area, just head to our website, faithbuy.com.

Click find a professional. There's more than 1,500 men and women that have been trained to bring you biblically wise, professional financial advice. They also have met high standards in character and competence and experience. They've had pastor and client references. They've had a regulatory review. It's a pretty high bar to earn the CKA designation, which by the way, certified kingdom advisor is the only industry accepted designation in the financial services industry for a biblical approach to financial decision making.

Again, to find a CKA in your town, just go to faithfi.com, faithfi.com and click find a professional. All right, we're going to head back to the phones. By the way, looks well, all the lines are full. So if you're listening, you're getting a busy signal, perhaps we can get you in a little bit later in the broadcast. Let's go to Illinois. Hi Rose, go ahead.

Hey Rob, thanks for taking my call. I have a social security question on behalf of my sister. So she turned 60 in December and her husband passed away about eight years ago. She's still working full time. Can she collect on her husband's social security either in full or part where she's still working?

She can. So as survivors benefits, it would be based on her husband's work record, which means, you know, she could let her own work record continue to grow. She could take that as early as age 60. But the benefits will be reduced by 8% for every year she takes that survivors benefit before full retirement age. So if her full retirement age is let's say 67, you know, whatever that benefit would be, that she would, you know, be getting at full retirement age, she'd get, you know, only 44% of that, because 8% times seven would be 56% of that would be reduced. She would also have an earnings cap on that. So, you know, the income cap is the same on survivors benefits as regular benefits. So if she's continuing to work, if she earns more than $22,320 for this year, for example, 2024, her benefits would be reduced by $1 for every $2 she earns above that. Now, that money that's reduced because she's earning above the income cap up until full retirement age will eventually be paid back to her in the form of a higher check once she reaches full retirement age. But the reduction of 8% a year for every year before full retirement age would be permanent.

So we've got two things going on. If you take it early, you're reduced permanently by 8% a year for every year you take it prior to full retirement age. And then on top of that, you've got this earnings cap.

But the earnings cap is temporary, meaning she'll eventually be made whole from all that's withheld. I know that's a lot of information. Is that helpful, though? No, that's perfect. I know I've been listening to your program and I thought I heard something, but I couldn't remember exactly. No, this is perfect. Thank you.

Okay. You're welcome, Rose. Thanks for your call today.

Let's go to Cleveland, Ohio. Hi, Dee. Go ahead.

Hi, Rob. Thank you so much for taking my call. And let me just say right off the bat that I hope you know how the Lord uses you in such a powerful way. And thank you for being an obedient servant and obeying Him and helping to guide us.

Thank you so much. Well, that means a lot, Dee. Thank you for saying that.

That is true. So, Rob, here's my dilemma. I am a widow. My husband passed in 2016.

At the time, we had an 18-year-old and a 25-year-old. So I, a couple of years ago, before everything went haywire with the economy, I was able to refinance my house to get a lower rate. So right now, my house is at a 375. At the time, I thought I was helping my children during the refi by putting their name on my deed.

However, I've been hearing lots of stuff about capital gains taxes, what will happen to them in the event of my passing and the house is evaluated at more than what we pay for, that they could really get like, I guess, hit with a large amount of money. So did I do wrong by doing that? And if I did, can I reverse it with little or no problems simply by paying to have it reversed?

Yeah, it's a good question. So you gifted the property to them through a quitclaim deed, is that right? No. So actually, when I refinance, I'm still the primary on the deed, but I added them to the deed. Okay, so you all are equal owners then based on the way the deed is written, is that right? Correct. Okay. So what would happen is, yeah, the downside is the portion that you gifted them. So is there it's you plus two children, is that right? There's the three of you? Correct.

Okay. So you each, let's say, are 33.3% owners of this property. So when you pass away, the portion that you own, they would receive, assuming your will is set up this way, they would receive as an inheritance, which means they would get to stepped up basis to determine any capital gains that are owed on the property for that portion, but the portion that they received as a gift from you, which is what happened when you retitled the property and added them their names, they would inherit the cost basis that you originally had, and then they'd have to pay capital gains on it. Now, the way to unwind that and I would talk to a real estate attorney about this is perhaps for them to gift it back to you, which currently they can gift up to $13 million over their lifetime to anyone, or the total of 13 million in gifting to individuals without paying any gift tax on it. And they can gift 18,000 a year. So a portion of this would be just the annual exclusion, the rest of it would go toward that $13 million lifetime gift exemption. And that way, it would be back in your name, you would keep your original cost basis, and then either through a transfer on death deed, or your will that would go through probate or through putting it in a trust.

If they receive the property at your death, then they get that stepped up cost basis, and they wouldn't have any capital gains. Does that make sense? It makes perfect sense. And that's exactly what I was looking for, Rob.

So no, it was totally perfect sense. Thank you so much for that. You're welcome.

I would talk to a real estate attorney, though, to make sure that all that is done properly and exactly the way it should. We don't want any surprises down the road. But Dee, you sound like a wonderful mom, and we appreciate you being on the program today. May the Lord bless you.

Well, folks, we're nearing the end of the program today. You know, as we think about applying God's wisdom to our financial decisions and choices, I think we need to remind ourselves that there are plenty of admonitions in Scripture around how we should handle money. The fact that we should avoid debt, the importance of goal setting, the importance of paying our taxes, not anymore, but rendering unto Caesar at least what is Caesar's. The fact that we should be training the next generation, our kids, in these principles and a biblical worldview of money management, and certainly living within our means.

And we want to remind you of those principles and ideas that are very practical, but rooted in God's Word each time we gather together. And by the way, and speaking of living within our means, if you're struggling with that like I am, and so many of us are in the midst of high inflation, check out the Faithfi app. It's what Julie and I use to manage our budget every day. And it's really helpful to know what's left in each envelope when you take a look at that app in real time. You can download it today at faithfi.com.

Just click app. Well, folks, that's going to do it for us. A big thanks to my team today, Devin Patrick, Robert Youngblood, Jim Henry, and everybody here at Faithfi that makes this possible. Have a great rest of your day, and I'll see you again next time for another edition of Faith and Finance. Announcer Faith and Finance is provided by Faithfi and listeners like you.