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That's findacaka.com. Women have played a vital role in advancing the gospel from the very beginning. I am Rob West. In Romans 16, Paul introduces us to Phoebe, a trusted partner and gospel patron whose generosity, influence, and service helped further his ministry. Today, John Reinhardt joins us to explore Phoebe's example and what it can teach us about using our work, relationships, and resources for gospel impact.
And then we'll take your phone calls at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. This is Faith and Finance, biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. Yeah.
Well, what a treat today to have my friend John Reinhart back on the program. John is the founder and CEO of Gospel Patrons, a nonprofit ministry that inspires business and professional leaders to use their unique gifts and resources for God's kingdom. John, great to have you here. Thanks so much, Rob. Great to be with you.
John, you recently wrote about Phoebe for our special edition of Faithful Steward focused on women stewarding wealth, and we'll get to her story in a moment. But first, I want you to unpack the term gospel patron and what God has been doing in and through you and your wife Renee in this incredible ministry now for many years. Yeah, thank you so much. Gospel patron was a term foreign to me initially. I heard about it through a businessman in Sydney, Australia.
And for me, it was helpful to understand that throughout history, God has used business and professional leaders behind the scenes to fuel and spread the momentum of his kingdom. And so, a gospel patron is someone who's going to be generous, oftentimes gifted in generosity, gifted in business, and they're standing alongside those leaders who proclaim the gospel. They're involved relationally, they're involved financially, but they're there as a partner and support in the work. And what we see in Luke chapter eight was that Jesus himself had gospel patrons. His ministry was funded by three women, named Mary, Joanna, and Susanna, who provided for him out of their means.
Yeah, and that's a detail we can often miss in God's word. But, John, I know you have been so faithful to tell the stories of the gospel patrons throughout the decades. And really, for every gospel proclaimer on the front lines, there are gospel patrons behind them, right? That's right. All throughout history, they are sort of these footnotes.
And yet, we see their names in scripture, but they're often the names that we read right over. And yet, it wouldn't have happened. The great things that God does throughout history have always been supported by gospel patrons. Incredible. Folks, pick up the book by this title, Gospel Patrons, written by John Reinhart.
It is a must-read, and then go to gospelpatrons.org to learn about this ministry. You will be blessed by it. All right. In Romans 16, 1 and 2, Paul introduces us to Phoebe. John, what do those verses tell us about who she was and the role that she played?
Romans 16 is the final chapter of Paul's most significant letter. It has been this theological masterpiece for the church in Rome that he longed to get to. And when we get to the final chapter, He lists 27 different names of people to greet and say hello to in Rome. But the first one is this woman named Phoebe. Phoebe is most likely hand-carrying the first copy of Romans to the church in Rome that Paul longed to see himself, and he trusts her to carry it.
So she's the one where Paul says, greet her and treat her in a manner worthy of the saints, because she's been a patron of many. And then he says, of myself as well. Let's unpack that a bit more. I love this. What does it say to us that Paul entrusts a letter as important as Romans to Phoebe and not one of the other apostles?
Yeah, Paul trusted her. She must have. I mean, obviously, there's a backstory here that we don't get all the details for, but he's entrusting this really significant task to her, probably because she had wealth and therefore she may have had security detail to travel with her the 800 miles to Rome. Wow. It seems that he's had a lot of experience with her in the past.
I imagine that throughout Paul's ministry, there were times that he made tents and helped to provide for his own ministry. And then at other times, it seems that people like Phoebe and sometimes Priscilla and Aquila come alongside the Apostle Paul and say, you know, your tents are okay, but what you're really good at is writing books in the New Testament. What you're really good at is preaching sermons and planting churches. And so we want to free you up to do that. Our generosity will be the fuel in the tank for you to do what God's ultimately made and called you to do.
And so Paul trusts her at a really deep level. Incredible. Folks, we're talking about Phoebe and the role she played in Paul's ministry, but here's the big idea: we want you. To thank and pray about your role in furthering the gospel. Perhaps you're a gospel patron yourself.
We're going to continue to unpack all of this just around the corner. John Reinhart's here today. He's the CEO of Gospel Patrons, and you can learn more at gospelpatrons.org. That's gospelpatrons.org. Back with more after this.
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For licensing information, visit NMLSconsumeraccess.org. No! Women have played a vital role in advancing the gospel from the very beginning. We're so glad to have you with us today. I'm Rob West.
With me, my friend John Reinhart. He's founder and CEO of Gospel Patrons. You can learn more at gospelpatrons.org. We're talking about Phoebe, a trusted partner and gospel patron whose generosity and influence and service helped further Paul's ministry. We see this in Romans 16.
And John, I'd love to talk about what Phoebe's financial support might have actually provided for practically. Yeah, I mean, throughout history, even writing letters of the New Testament would have been very, very costly. You would hire a scribe most of the time. There would be multiple copies that were made, the cost of the papyrus and the ink, the time that it would have taken to review their work, a copy that the Apostle Paul would have kept for himself, multiple copies then that it would have been distributed. It's very, very unlikely that the Apostle Paul was able to fund all of the cost of all 13 of his letters and more that he would have written.
And so it could be that Phoebe provided for that as well as other patrons. It could be that she was helping to fund some of his travel. It could have been that she was just some of the cost of living and doing ministry on the road could have been, you know, living expenses. But the Bible doesn't specify exactly, but there is something really significant here where Paul is listing her first among all the people to greet in Rome and calling her his very own patron. That's the only time that that word gets used throughout the New Testament.
And Paul here is applying it to Phoebe.
So that's incredible. We can speculate, and we know that there's something really deep here. Yeah, we sure do.
Now, let's turn the corner and talk about how this applies to everyone listening today. What can we, as Christ followers, some professionals listening today, and many women who we know based on the great wealth transfer are going to be the primary beneficiaries, stewards of this $124 trillion that's changing hands? John, what can we learn from Phoebe's example? Yeah, I think a lot of times we think that faith and finance don't really intersect, or God and money are two circles that never overlap. And what we see consistently throughout the New Testament is that what we do with the wealth that God's entrusted to us is itself an act of worship.
And we can use the wealth that God's entrusted to us to bless the world, to advance the gospel, to support missionaries, to serve the suffering, to help the poor, to visit the widows and the orphans. And I think we can see that our wealth is an incredible opportunity to do good.
Sometimes those of us who didn't grow up with these conversations tend to think, well, I don't know, is money and wealth just something bad and dirty that's for business? But then when I come to my faith, it's sort of this private personal experience. And the reality is that for 2,000 years, God's people, and especially women, Phoebe here, and then Mary Joanna and Susanna mentioned in Luke chapter eight, were seeing the connection between using their wealth to glorify God, store up treasure in heaven, and advance the gospel. Mm.
Well, folks, our special edition of Faithful Steward that is out this month, we are so excited about it. It's all about women and wealth. And John has written this incredible article highlighting Phoebe, this gospel patron that we see in the book of Romans. John, you elevate in this article three traits of effective gospel patrons that are absolutely present in Phoebe's life. Share those with us.
Yeah, the first one is vision. And we know that Proverbs says, without vision, people perish. Vision goes first. Vision is seeing the way the kingdom of God is advancing, even when it's invisible. It's seeing the mustard seed going to become the big tree.
And gospel patrons see and believe where God's at work. And they see, okay, there's going to be a cost to this, but it's going to be worth it. It's full of faith. Generosity, that is, they step in and give joyfully and often sacrificially to support it. This isn't a little tip.
This isn't just a tax or even a tithe. This is, I can't wait to be involved in God's coming kingdom on earth as it is in heaven, and I want to participate in that now. And the third would be humility. That gospel patrons aren't often trying to be in the spotlight or hold a microphone or be recognized, but they're happy to come alongside and combine their wealth with the wealth of someone who's a gospel proclaimer and say, Together, when our wealths merge, they actually will do so much more to bless the world. That is so true.
Now for somebody listening today who's discerning whether God is inviting them to become a gospel patron, maybe for an individual or maybe for an organization, how might they discern that? Yeah, I'm glad that you use the word discernment. It's so important to not rush in, but to say, Father, help me to see my part in your work. That Ephesians 2:10 says that God's already written the good works He has for our lives. It's not our job to make them up, it's our job to discover them through our relationship with God.
So that's where we always start. We always start with prayer and ask God, what would my involvement be here? Our job is not to try to make great things out of our lives, it's try to obey the good things that God's already planned for us and join where He's at work. Second, I think we want to know: you know, is the person, the ministry, the organization that God might be inviting us to support, have they been tested in some way? Do we share the same theological convictions?
Do they have competence to do the work that they're aiming to do? And do they have conviction? Competence, conviction, and clarity. Are they really getting the ball moving the ball down the field? And would they be a good person or organization for me to come alongside?
So you can seek wise counsel from mentors, others who have been on the board, people who have trusted them, others who've given to them. You want to ask around a little bit and do a little bit of due diligence to say, yeah, is the money that I give here going to really go to furthering the mission? Incredible. John, I'm confident that there's somebody who's listening today who's early in their career who may not feel like they have significant resources yet, yet they're hearing you describe a gospel patron and they're saying, I absolutely want to be one of those. What are some practical ways to begin living as a gospel patron even today?
I love young professionals. I love young business students. My wife and I both studied business in college and started our careers in business. And so I love the idea of catching the vision of being a gospel patron now, not later. And what Jesus says in Luke 16 is that we're called to be faithful with whatever we have now.
A lot of times we delay thinking about generosity until I reach some certain status point in my career or financial metric that I'm trying to get to. But Jesus says, you'll be faithful with little, you'll be faithful with much.
So it's really, really important to start today and start where you're at today with a bit of generosity and steps of faith. What we know to be true is that if we never take a step of faith, where you'll be in 10 years is exactly where you are right now. But every step of faith you take will lead to another step of faith and another step of faith and another step of faith.
So that 10 years down the line, even the smallest step of faith will lead you to a destination you could not even have imagined arriving at. That's how God's kingdom works: planting little seeds, starting small, and learning to also not let your lifestyle get out of control. I was just talking to some friends last night, and in their community, people who are highly, highly, highly successful feel really cramped financially.
So, when you have a generosity conversation, they go, I can't afford to give, because they've already over-committed their lifestyle to things that they probably don't need. And so, allowing yourself to live under budget and live somewhat simply and create lots of margin to give, even early on, I think can be a game changer for you. Wow, incredible. John, I'm so thankful for your time today. I really appreciate you writing this article for Faithful Stewart as well.
It is incredible to see the men and women throughout history going all the way back to God's word and the women who supported Jesus that stepped into this role as gospel patrons and what God did as a result of their faithfulness. Thanks for your time, my friend. You're welcome. Such a joy to be with you. Mm.
Folks, your next step? Check out gospelpatrons.org for articles and videos and a free study guide on Phoebe and other patrons. Also, pick up the book Gospel Patrons by John Reinhart from William Tyndale to George Whitfield. All the stories are there. We'll be back with your questions after this break.
So call right now, 800-525-7000. Or if you'd prefer to email your questions, send it to us at askrob at faithby.com. Stick around. We are grateful for support from Praxis Investment Management. Since 1994, Praxis has offered investment products designed to meet practical needs for everyday investors seeking to steward their assets consistent with their desire to promote positive social and environmental impacts.
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Here in our final segment, we're taking your phone calls. We've got a few lines open. I've got room for maybe one or two more if you're not currently holding.
So, call right now: 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. Gordon, how can I help? Phil, thank you for taking my call.
So the question I have is, I've just got a 401k plan, and I was thinking about investing part of it in real estate. The particular real estate I was considering would have given me like sixteen hundred dollars a month income. And I would have left I would have left after I took money out of my four hundred one K, about one hundred twenty five thousand left.
So I'm just wondering if that's a good idea. I'm of a retirement age. I could retire. I'm actually over seventy. I'm still working and collecting Social Security as well.
Yeah, yeah.
So, how much would you have? I know you said you'd have a little over $100,000 left in the 401k. How much would you pull out to make this purchase? about one hundred and seventy five. About 175.
Okay. And you've already identified this property? Yeah.
Okay. Yeah.
The challenge is it would require a distribution unless you do a self-directed IRA.
Now, I'll get to that in a moment. I mean, real estate can be a great, great wealth-building tool. The problem is, you know, although you wouldn't have that 10% early withdrawal penalty, you're going to trigger a massive ordinary income tax bill. And so you could lose a significant portion of your retirement savings before you ever buy the property. And then, perhaps even bigger than that, over time, you're going to give up that continued tax-deferred growth of those retirement assets.
So, although I like real estate as a part of a diversified plan, I generally wouldn't recommend draining or at least cutting in half, perhaps, or maybe a little more than that, two-thirds, of a 401k just because of the tax advantages you're giving up and the big tax bite that you'll have on the front end.
Now, the other option is a self-directed IRA, which is simply where you would roll the 401k to a self-directed IRA custodian. This is not your typical Schwab or Fidelity. These are specialized custodians. But as soon as you get it into a self-directed IRA, then that does allow you to invest. In other types of assets beyond stocks and bonds, including real estate.
Now, what would happen is the property would be owned by the IRA, not you personally. You can't live in it, use it. That's fine 'cause this is a rental, but also you can't personally manage it. And so you would have to hire a property manager because you can't be the one to personally collect the rent or perform repairs, those kinds of things.
So a third-party property manager would have to do all of that. All expenses would be paid from the IRA. All rental income goes back into the IRA, but you preserve that tax deferral. But give me your thoughts on all that.
Well, the other thing is That I didn't mention is right now So a couple of years ago, my four hundred one K did really well. And I turned it into a cash fund and some added information so that it isn't earning a whole lot right now based on it's probably losing with inflation.
Okay. Yeah.
Yeah, but we don't want to get in a binary trap, which is basically where we say, okay, do we want to leave it in cash in the 401k or do we want to buy real estate?
Well, what about the third option? We leave it in the 401k, but we reinvest it. Into a properly diversified portfolio that's appropriate for your age and risk tolerance, maybe even include some real estate investment trusts if you want real estate exposure. Or we roll it out to an IRA, and now we're not limited to those small menu of investments inside the 401k, but any stock bond, mutual fund, ETF could be purchased at that point. But again, we're missing out on the big tax bill, which is probably going to affect two years from now your IRMA, your Medicare premium on top of the federal and potentially state income tax.
And then you've lost all the tax deferral moving forward. Does that make sense? Oh. I would say Irma. Yeah, that's the additional premium you pay two years after you have more, a greater level of income.
The Medicare looks at your income from two years ago and then adds a premium to your Medicare premium on top of it. Could be, you know, $200 a month or more that you would get hit with because you have a spike in income. They add more premium on top of your existing Medicare premium. I say. Yeah, so there's just a lot of implications here, and so I would love for you to find a way to do this without pulling it out of the 401k.
Gordon, hope that gives you a few things to think about. Thanks for your call. Todd's been waiting patiently in Illinois. Go ahead, sir. Quick question for you.
My dad is 91 years old. He has a a pension, long-term care, insurance. My mom had long-term care insurance. We almost use all of that. She was four years at home with dementia, passed away.
So my dad's been on his long term care policy for just under two years.
So we have about a $3,500 to $4,000 a month shortfall, and he's down to his last twenty five thousand dollars. And was wondering what your thoughts were about a reverse mortgage, which would buy him another two point five years of being in his home at nineteen ninety one. If there's one type of reverse mortgage that you have any thoughts about, just trying to get some just general information so that I can make a good informed decision for him. Yeah, I think you're thinking in the right direction here, Todd, because as we look at all the assets that we have, we certainly have to consider as one of those that should be just a part of the financial planning conversation, home equity.
Now, a lot of folks love the idea, and I do as well, of getting to a place where we own our home free and clear and staying that way. And we live off of the assets we've accumulated, plus Social Security. But if you're in this situation where he's literally got a shortfall and his largest remaining asset is his home, it absolutely can be converted to a stream of income either through a home equity loan kind of thing where it's available to him, a line of credit, or just a monthly paycheck. And the great thing is that the home equity conversion mortgages, the reverse mortgages of today, are far better than the ones that were heavily scrutinized years ago and for good reason because it's not collateralized in the sense that it's only. Collateralized by the home and it's non-recourse, so he's not on the hook for it personally.
How much equity does he have in the home? He owns it free and clear. It's worth about $215. Yeah.
So, this could be a great option for him.
So, let's do this. I've got an unfortunately amount of time here. The place to go, and then I'd like for you to stay on the line. Our team will get your information. I'll get somebody in touch with you: is movement.com/slash faith.
That's movement.com/slash faith. And then if you stay on the line, Todd, our team will get your information and we'll get somebody to reach out to you who can run all the illustrations and answer all of your questions. But this could be just what your dad is looking for in this season of life. God bless you, my friend. Hang on the line.
That's going to do it for us today, folks. You can support Faith Phi at faith5.com. Just click give. And big thanks to my team today, Jim, Devin, and Sandy. We'll see you next time.
Bye-bye. Faith in Finance is provided by Faith By and listeners like you.
