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It's often said that wisdom may create wealth, but wealth rarely creates wisdom. Hi, I'm Rob West. What's more valuable, wisdom or wealth? Before you answer, consider that wealth is fleeting, but wisdom is never lost. John Cortinez joins us today to talk about why wisdom over wealth is always the right choice.
And then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. This is Faith in Finance, biblical wisdom for your financial journey.
Well, I've been looking forward to having John Cortinez back on the program. He's the Director of Partnership and Growth at the McClellan Foundation and the author of True Riches, What Jesus Really Said About Money and Your Heart. John, it's great to have you back. Good to be with you, Rob. Thanks.
John, many listeners may not realize that you wrote a study for us last year on the book of Ecclesiastes titled Wisdom Over Wealth, which is available at faithfy.com/slash shop for both individuals, small groups, also churches. We've received such encouraging feedback from people who have been struck by Ecclesiastes' lessons on wealth, wisdom, and what truly matters.
So, before we talk about the study itself, I'd love to know about the process. What did that look like for you as you walked through Ecclesiastes personally? You know, it's a mysterious book. It's a meaningful book. There's a lot of wisdom in there.
And so we've titled this study Wisdom Over Wealth, 12 Lessons from Ecclesiastes on Money. And it has been a joy and transformative for me to get into that book. As you know, God's word always has power. It sure does. And to your point, Ecclesiastes is one of those books we can easily overlook because at first glance, it can feel difficult or even discouraging.
But when we slow down and let the preacher speak, we discover a deeply hopeful message. Life is brief. Wealth is limited. Achievement, pleasure, and possessions can't bear the weight of our souls, but God alone can. And that's really the heart behind wisdom over wealth, 12 lessons from Ecclesiastes on Money.
The study explores themes like contentment and work and generosity, even enjoyment, wisdom, and the fear of the Lord. It reminds us that money is a gift to steward, not a treasure to worship. And we can receive God's provision with gratitude. We can enjoy it in its proper place and hold it with open hands because our ultimate treasure is not under the sun. It is in the God who made us and sustains us and gives meaning to all we do.
So, in the study, you actually illustrate the importance of wisdom over wealth with a really powerful story. I'd love for you to unpack that for our listeners. Would love to do it. Yes, that story you just referenced, this was a real life experience or conversation I had. And I was with somebody who was a part of three siblings, and each of them had a substantial inheritance that they received that was in today's dollars about a million bucks.
And so a lot of money at age 18. And it's amazing. The first one was kind of like a prodigal son story.
So really sad. They They did not go down the right path, and it was squandered, and they ended up in a very poor position, metaphorically and literally. The second sibling, there was some mismanagement, but also a little bit more maybe good decision-making as well. And they ended up in a house that at least they had, but the rest of the money kind of went away because expenses exceeded income. And so then here comes the third.
And the third child in this family started having lunch with wise, godly leaders in their community and just asking, Look, here's my story. Here's what happened to my siblings. I don't want it to happen to me. They actually hired a Christian financial advisor. And I was one of those lunches.
And it was such a privilege to talk to this young person who was saying, Look, I don't want what's happened to my older siblings to be my story as well. I want to honor God. I want to learn what investing looks like. And ultimately, there's a happy ending for this person because they finished a college degree. They learned about generosity.
They learned about investing. And their life is one that is glorifying God today. And John, I couldn't agree more. I mean, what a picture of this idea that wisdom can generate wealth, but wealth rarely generates wisdom. This really underscores that, doesn't it?
Yeah, if you look at this story, it's three people from the same family, and they all got the same wealth input right as they entered adulthood, and there are three radically different outcomes. And I would argue that the difference was wisdom. That's exactly right. And we're going to explore this right around the corner. In fact, we'll dive into the book of Ecclesiastes, where we see this idea that wisdom and wealth are both good things, but only one of them can preserve your life.
We're talking today with John Cortinez, our friend, frequent contributor, and the director of partnership and growth at the McClellan Foundation. Wisdom over wealth on faith and finance today. I'm Rob West, and back with more right around the corner. Stay with us. We are grateful for support from Timothy Plan.
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For licensing information, visit nmlsconsumeraccess.org. Yeah. Thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance. What's more valuable, wisdom or wealth? We're talking about that today with our friend John Cortinez.
He's the director of partnership and growth at the McClellan Foundation and a frequent contributor here. And the study John wrote for us last year, Wisdom Over Wealth: 12 Lessons from Ecclesiastes on Money, is the subject of our conversation today. By the way, you can pick up your copy today at faithfi.com/slash shop.
Now, John, before the break, you told us this story that's actually a true story. You were involved in this of three siblings that each inherited roughly a million dollars in today's dollars. They had three different outcomes. One of them was tragic, another didn't turn out the way we would have wanted, and yet the third was very God-honoring. And you really suggested that the difference was wisdom.
So, take us into the book of Ecclesiastes to explore what you witnessed. Thanks, Rob. Yeah, so if we look at Ecclesiastes 7:11 and 12, this is what it says. Wisdom, like an inheritance, is a good thing, and benefits those who see the sun. Wisdom is a shelter as money is a shelter but the advantage of knowledge is this wisdom preserves those who have it.
Yeah, a powerful truth. I know you've seen that play out time and time again.
Now, we're not saying that wealth is bad, right? Of course not. Yeah, scripture is clear that God has given us these things for our enjoyment. As Paul says, wisdom and wealth are both good, as we just read in Ecclesiastes, but only one of them preserves our life. And so, if we want to have life, wisdom has to be ahead of wealth.
If you think about this, when you and I are born, when anybody is born, we're born without any wisdom, but we've got a crib to sleep in, and there's people taking care of us.
So, we've already got some wealth, but we've got no wisdom yet, and we've got to flip that as soon as we can. Yeah, that's exactly right. And I love how our team worked with you to create visual reminders of the relationship between wisdom and wealth. The message is clear: as wealth grows, wisdom must grow even faster. Otherwise, money can quickly become dangerous for the soul.
Isn't that right? That's right. You know, if you think about over our lifetimes, the traditional path, wealth grows exponentially. There's compound interest. And so we can end up with a good deal of wealth.
And yet, if we're not intentional to grow in our wisdom, the wealth is going to run ahead and that creates risk. But the better way would be to prioritize wisdom, because as we just read in Ecclesiastes 7, that will give us preservation. If wisdom is ahead of wealth, our life can be preserved. Yeah. And John, this can be uh pretty pronounced if we receive an inheritance or have a sudden wealth experience.
It may not necessarily just play out over our lifetimes. Isn't that true? That's right. And that's where we can follow the example of the young person whose story we just shared a bit of, where he said, Oh my goodness, I have all this money. I need some help.
I need to talk to mature believers. I need a Christian financial advisor to help me navigate this and not blow things up. Yeah. I love that you unpack this idea of obtaining wisdom because that's the natural next question. Then, if it's wisdom over wealth, how do I obtain wisdom?
What would you share with our audience? I love that. And the first question I would ask is: what is wisdom? You know, we might think of a list of best practices or some good ideas or a checklist I can follow, but I would submit that wisdom is both a perspective and a person. In 1 Corinthians 1, Paul refers to Jesus as Christ, the power of God, and the wisdom of God.
Mm. Yeah, that's right. And so, you know, as we think about those in our life, we obviously need to prioritize wisdom. But I know you've worked with a lot of matriarchs and patriarchs thinking about transferring wisdom to the next generation. You're thinking about that in your own family.
What counsel would you give them today around this idea? You know, absolutely. I think there's so much biblical financial wisdom in scripture. But again, I would say it's not a checklist. It's not a list of things that I need to do.
The question that's first and foremost is: do I know Christ? And anybody listening, I'd say, have you encountered wisdom himself? He's the power of God and the wisdom of God. We've each got the amazing opportunity to know Jesus and his wisdom through praying, through diligently studying his word. And in doing so, again, hearkening back to that Ecclesiastes passage, he can preserve our life and he'll redeem our journey with money through his grace.
Yeah. And when it comes to our kids, you know, clearly those who are listening today that are wrestling through this wealth transfer conversation, thinking about passing wisdom before wealth is really paramount. And if you haven't considered it, perhaps this is that time to stop and think about that before you execute your plans. How would you speak into that dilemma that some are facing right now? This is such a huge question.
The great wealth transfer, of course, is talked about in media, popular media, all the time. But man, as believers, we have such an opportunity to open up the conversation earlier. I would just encourage anybody out there thinking about this, I mean, we're trying to talk to our grade school children about this now. And so if we start the conversation about wealth and wisdom and faith and legacy from a young age, wherever you're at today, open up the conversational door. And that will give more time for things to play out.
I'd say the way not to do it is make a will, wait for you to die, and hope everybody figures it out. Let's start the process today. Yeah, I think the key there is intentionality.
Now, John, we mentioned earlier, this is just one lesson within the larger study you wrote for Faith by last year, Wisdom Over Wealth, 12 lessons from Ecclesiastes on Money.
So for our listeners, connect this topic to the bigger theme you draw from Ecclesiastes and what God's Word teaches about money and wisdom and eternity. You know, spending so much time in Ecclesiastes to prepare this, there are two huge themes that jumped out at me studying all 12 chapters of that book. And the first one is not money, actually. The first one is death. 11 out of the 12 chapters of Ecclesiastes mention death in one way or another.
But I would argue that the author of Ecclesiastes and God is communicating to us through this book, not to make us sad as we think about death, but actually to recognize that life is short and He's given us the breath in our lungs today. It's an opportunity to enjoy Him, to glorify Him, and to seize the moment for His glory. And that actually feeds into the financial wisdom of Ecclesiastes as well. And so realizing life is short, wanting to honor God and fear him and obey his commands with the time we're given on earth. And then trying to manage our money in accordance with that.
And we spend these 12 lessons unpacking that in this study that we've put together. Yeah. John, as we begin to tie a bow on today's message and returning to this idea of wisdom over wealth, what's the big idea that you'd want to leave with our listeners today? I would just point once again to Jesus. It's all about him, and he is the source of wisdom.
And so I'm so thankful for what you guys are doing through this, through FaithFi, through Kingdom Advisors, and putting that message out there that when we connect our faith and finances, it actually starts to shape our heart and make us more like Christ. These are not two areas of our life that should be separate. We should bring them together in the short number of days that we've got for the glory of God. Yeah, that's exactly right. And I'm grateful for your hard work on this study.
And I'm encouraged by the feedback we've already received. I look forward to seeing the continued impact that it will have. John, as we close, what's your hope and prayer for anybody that picks up that study? I would say recognize that your life is a gift. You've been given a brief moment of life.
You can spend it in bitterness. You can spend it complaining. Or you can recognize that God has given you a gift, even in the challenges you face.
So seek after Him and make every day count for the glory of God. Yeah, that's right. Well, that's certainly our objective here on this program every day, to help you see God as your ultimate treasure and money a tool to accomplish his purposes. John, thanks for stopping by. Thanks so much, Rob.
Great to be with you. That's John Cortinez, Director of Partnership and Growth at the McClellan Foundation. You can pick up your copy of Wisdom Over Wealth: 12 lessons from Ecclesiastes on Money at faith5.com/slash shop. Your questions are next, 800-525-7000. Stick around.
We chase money thinking it'll bring security. We seek success hoping it'll satisfy. But the book of Ecclesiastes exposes this truth. Lasting contentment isn't found in what we own, but in a personal relationship with Wisdom Himself, Jesus. Faith Vi's study: Wisdom over Wealth: 12 Lessons from Ecclesiastes on Money, will help you break free from empty pursuits and discover what truly lasts.
Purchase your copy today or place a bulk order at faithfy.com slash shop. Faith in Finance is grateful for support from Sound Mind Investing. For more than 30 years, SMI has been helping Christians reach their financial goals by offering do-it-yourself investing guidance for investors at every stage, just getting started or getting close to retirement. Financial wisdom for living well. More information, including the short video webinar, Profit and Peace of Mind, no matter what's happening in the market, is available at soundmindinvesting.org.
Great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance. We've got room for you.
So, if there's something going on in your financial life, we'd love to hear from you today so we can chat about it. The number to call is 800-525-7000. Again, that's 800-525-7000. You'll get right through at the moment. We've got our team standing by and any financial question today, again, 800-525-7,000.
All right, let's go to Oklahoma. Billy, go ahead. How can I help you? My question is, um I am just selling a house and I've been wanting to open a coin shop. I'm in the numismatics.
Um gold and silver and some of the other precious metals. Um But what what's going on is um My house is in closing. It's supposed to probably be, I would say, within the next couple of weeks. Um, I'm working with the, she's a real estate agent, but she's buying the house herself.
So there's no commission on her part. Um what do I need to do To put that money toward this business on opening. And I've got a little bit of business plan. I've done some research in marketing and everything.
Now, this area I'm at in Oklahoma is Podo. The next biggest town over is Fort Smith, Arkansas, which is approximately thirty miles away.
So I've researched the geographical area. You know, population here is about 10,000. Fort Smith is around 100,000.
So, what would be your take on that? Yeah. Couple of questions for you. First of all, congratulations on this idea. You know, owning a business can be a wonderful opportunity, but you want to go into it with your eyes wide open.
So, I'm glad you're asking a lot of questions. I'm glad you have put a business plan together. That's key. First would be: is this going to replace your full-time income, Billy, or will you continue working while you build the business? No, no.
I'll continue working full time at my job right now. I work, it's a It's a transportation, and I've been there for about eight years.
So I got a pretty good retirement. It's a 403B. They match it up to 10%, which is really good. Um So yeah, I'll be here at least you know, working that part-time also. Great.
Yeah, I love that. That's really good. And how much do you expect the shop to need before it becomes cash flow positive? I mean, what does your business plan say?
Well, right now, the ratio is probably I'm going to have to put I would say $100,000 to $120,000 in it. Because I'm going to, you know, from the ground up, it's going to be a brick and mortar store. And that that brings another point, you know, where I've talked to some people about the negative side. You know, they said there's a lot more businesses and stuff leaning toward the internet. You know, Buying coins, selling coins, and stuff like on eBay, Amazon, whatnot.
So that's kind of what I'm looking at right now.
So if I sell this house, for what I'm selling it, I'm going to probably need a little bit of a I would say a business loan. I wouldn't think a whole lot. I would assume maybe thirty, thirty five thousand. Yeah, got it.
Okay, that's really helpful. And that's encouraging about the opportunity because you're reducing a lot of the startup risk here because you're keeping your full-time job.
So you're not relying on the coin shop to feed your family on day one. And that's a huge advantage. And so I think the key is to keep contributing to that 403B, especially with that 10% match. Don't give up that free retirement money to fund the business. Be careful with the business loan.
I would say only borrow truly what you need. Debt can help a business grow, but it can create pressure if sales take longer than expected. I would say don't ignore the internet. You know, these people that are discouraging you do have a point that many coins are bought and sold online today. And so rather than viewing that as competition, I'd make it a part of your business model if you're not already.
You could use the storefront to build relationships and trust, but expand your business online. I would say also, you know, with any business, but certainly with a coin shop, it's important to differentiate yourself. Because a successful coin shop wins on expertise and trust and appraisals and estate collections and maybe bullion if you're gonna go there, but certainly relationships, not just selling coins from a display case. And then I would say it's important to preserve some liquidity as well. Don't put every dollar from the home sale into inventory.
That cash gives you flexibility. When opportunities arise.
So, you know, I would always start with the question: what's gonna make me different? You know, when what's gonna make someone drive past another coin shop or buy from you instead of eBay? What is your unique value proposition? Your answer, you know, to that question is really a key question that every small business owner has to make. Does that make sense?
It sure does, yes. You're on point.
So, you know, I'd encourage you with Proverbs 21:5: the plans of the diligent lead surely to abundance, but everyone who is hasty comes only to poverty. And so, I think the big idea here is thoughtful planning and adequate capital, and keeping your stable income while that business grows is going to give you a much better chance of long-term success. And obviously, you're in a small town, but whoever you can learn from, whether that's in person or a virtual mentor of somebody who's been down this road before you, just do your due diligence. But I don't disagree with the direction you're headed here. And I would just say make sure you keep some working capital and don't get too lean on that liquidity, if that makes sense.
Yes, sir, it sure does. Thank you for all your input. Absolutely. God bless you, Billy. Congrats on becoming a numismatist.
Yeah, I was, I struggle with that. Numismatic coins is a numismatist, I believe, is how you say it. Hey, thanks for being on the program today. Call anytime.
Well, folks, we're about out of time today. What a treat to have you along with us. Here's our goal and our heart on this program: you would see God as your ultimate treasure. You know, what the rich fool got wrong in God's word in Luke 12 is he thought it was all his own doing. And he was not rich toward God.
When his life was demanded of him, that was what was said in God's word. He was not rich toward God. What does that mean?
Well, I think living rich toward God means seeing God as the riches. above everything else. And then it puts everything in its proper place. I think the other issue that the rich fool had is he saw it all as his and from his own making. I think he used I and my like nine times in two verses.
Look what I did with my hands. Look what I've created. No, it all comes from God, it's from his hand. The I is, I am a steward, a manager of God's resources. That's our hope and prayer for you: that you would see yourself in that role each day.
It's a high calling. It's a big deal. And money is something we should enjoy. It shouldn't be a source of frustration. If we handle it properly and we live within our means and we avoid debt and we give generously and we set long-term goals and we have some liquidity or some margin and we understand God owns it all.
Wow, what a gift to be able to use money to serve and love others, to bring about God's redemptive purposes, to grow and create businesses and employ people that get paid and then give to the local church and fund missions around the world. It's a virtuous cycle. of God's providence and provision. And ultimately, of wealth creation, but it all comes from him. Hey, big thanks to my team today: Taylor Stanrich, Devin Patrick, grateful for Patty Pumphrey, and everybody here at FaithFi that makes this possible.
Have a wonderful day, and we'll see you next time. Bye-bye. Faith in Finance is provided by FaithFy and listeners like you.
