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Stewarding a surplus isn't about clever spreadsheets, it's about hearts aligned with God's purposes. I am Rob West. When the Lord entrusts us with more than we need, it can quietly become a spiritual and relational challenge just as much as a financial one. Rachel McDonough joins us today to talk about it. And then we'll take your phone calls at 800-525-7000.
That's 800-525-7000. This is Faith in Finance, biblical wisdom for your financial journey.
Well, it's a pleasure to welcome back my friend Rachel McDonough. She's a certified kingdom advisor, a certified financial planner, and the author of the incredible and brand new novel, The River and the Garden. Rachel, it is great to have you here. Thanks, Rob. Happy to join you.
Rachel, as you know, we don't often talk about novels on this program. Maybe we should, but this one is absolutely worth the exception. You spent 20 years crafting financial plans, yet your new release is a parable, not a manual.
So, Rachel, why trade spreadsheets for fiction? Tell us the backstory. Yeah, great question. When my publisher originally suggested that I do a fiction on the topic of stewardship, I kind of questioned the judgment call myself. I thought, wait a second, I'm a real nonfiction person.
Lots of how-to manuals have gone through my reading list over the years. But, you know, Jesus taught in story. And I thought if it's good enough for Jesus, my goodness, it should be good enough for us. But really, the joke is there. But underlying is that story can speak to our hearts in a way that spreadsheets and bullet points cannot sometimes.
Real families don't fit neat and tidy frameworks. Real families have relational challenges and tension and conflict to work through sometimes around stewardship. And while most of the wealth management industry is very good at focusing on technical aspects and optimization techniques, there's an awful lot about the heart that gets left out of those conversations. And I think story has a way of reaching into our hearts and inviting us into transformation in a way that how-to guides cannot.
Well, that is well said. Folks, I know you all have been calling and asking about faith-based investing, and Christians are discovering their values and then their investments do not need to live separately. And this book is one that will just open your heart and your mind to perhaps what God has for you.
So, check out the riverandthegarden.com. It's beautiful, but even more than that, it's just an incredible story. And speaking of that story, Rachel, take us in, tell us what it's actually about. Yeah, a little context.
So the Craig family, it's three generations. Maddie is the grandma, the matriarch, who has come into a surplus with the sale of a business. Her son, Roger, who is an analytical, hard-charging executive type. And Willow, her granddaughter, who is a young artist who doesn't want anything to do with numbers or spreadsheets or money. And yet she is the one who tends to see the connections that other people miss.
So imagine this journey. There's a family, three different generations with three different perspectives. And they decide to come together and go on some different adventures together, visiting an overlooked neighborhood around Dallas, even taking a trip to Rwanda and exploring some investment and donation opportunities abroad. And all the while looking for the answers of what does it really look like to steward a surplus faithfully. Yeah, it's incredible.
And obviously, there's some just beautiful imagery here that you use.
So, the river represents capital, the garden represents what we choose to water or cultivate, which is such a helpful way to reframe investing. Let's talk, though, Rachel, about the stagnant reservoirs, because there's a powerful scene in one of Willow's dreams where the water appears stagnant. What does that signal, and why should it unsettle a thoughtful Christ follower? Yeah, the dark reservoir is in one of Willow's dreams. Roger discovers things looking for answers in spreadsheets, but Willow discovers and receives revelation through dreams, the way an artist might.
And in one of her dreams, She sees these dark pools of capital, kind of the representation of capital, and they look like they're kind of stagnating, right? And now that that could unsettle us for two reasons. Number one is because. Capital never really stands still. We think of it as sitting in our investment accounts, but really it's always moving.
It's always flowing towards something. And in her dream, she notices that these stagnated, unattended pools are flowing towards the dark corners of industry where negative things can happen instead of flowing towards positive types of purposes and businesses through intentional stewardship. Exactly right.
Well, we're going to continue to unpack this incredible story, The River and the Garden, with Rachel McDonough after this break. Don't go anywhere. What we do is very special and it's very unique. This is Bethany. She is a Certified Kingdom Advisor.
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Membership eligibility required. Accounts are privately insured up to $250,000. This institution is not federally insured. Uh Yeah. Faithfully stewarding a surplus isn't primarily a technical problem, it's a relational and spiritual one.
I am Rob West. We're talking about a brand new novel called The River and the Garden. Joining me today, my friend Rachel McDonough. She's a CFP and a certified kingdom advisor, and she's the author of this incredible new resource. You're going to want to check it out.
If you've been thinking about aligning your values as a Christ follower with your deployment of capital in the public or the private markets, this novel is going to help you think about it in a way that I think will just capture your heart and your imagination and really move into this area perhaps in a way that you haven't before. Go to theriverandthegarden.com. And by the way, there's a garden audit assessment there that you're not going to want to miss. Again, that website, theriverandthegarden.com. And then you'll find links to pick up a copy of the book at Amazon.
Or wherever you buy books.
Now, Rachel, before the break, we were talking about how the river represents capital and the garden represents what we choose to water or cultivate. And we talked about this powerful scene and one of Willow's dreams, one of the characters in the book where the water appears stagnant. And you talked about how this image is unsettling for us as stewards in two ways. One is that the capital doesn't really sit still, it's invested in things that are not neutral, that may be the dark corners of industry, but there was a second reason it's unsettling. Take us into that.
Yeah, the second reason is we think so much our default is to have stewardship being focused on provision, especially around investing. Investing is for the sake of provision. And that's good and it's right. But when we find ourselves stewarding a surplus, we need to expand our vision. What is the purpose of the surplus?
If it's more than enough for provision for the family. What else is it for? And so that idea of stagnant pools, I think, also could be unsettling to us in the sense that wealth needs to be assigned a purpose according to the vision and the calling that God has for our lives and for our families in order for it to be effective. It's meant to be fuel, like an accelerant for whatever purposes that God has in our lives. Mm.
Rachel, I know you and your husband have made some personal investment decisions, really with great prayer, that go further than maybe what most people would consider comfortable. Tell us what that has looked like for the two of you. Yeah, I think for us, there should always be a tension in there: that provision versus surplus and the impact that we want to have with our surplus. But for us, we have felt that, you know, like even the non-retirement savings that we have, we've decided to go a little bit edgier on the impact side and say, well, even if these resources maybe we could accomplish a little bit better risk-adjusted returns with some conventional investments, we've taken a portion and said, let's invest in like one of the redemptive businesses that we've invested in is really trying to solve a cure for cancer and not in a way that only serves affluent people, but also makes those resources and solutions in medical treatment available to the global south. Interesting.
And so we're just looking at, you know, these are college funds for our kids. It's not like this is money that we're just taking and wanting to gamble with. It has a serious outcome. But we're also wanting to live into like, what does it look like to really? Trust God as being the provider and live in that tension of kind of provision versus impact goals that we have for the resources God has entrusted.
And you've really named that portion of your financial plan specifically for this purpose. I mean, this hasn't been haphazard, right? It's not haphazard. We embrace the tension of having multiple bottom lines, but it's prayerful. It's done with good analysis on the back end, on the financial plan, and with mutual prayerful decision and agreement with us as spouses.
We're talking with Rachel McDonough today, Certified Kingdom Advisor. She's the author of the new book, The River and the Garden. Rachel, who is this book for? And what is your prayer for them as they encounter it? Yeah, I think everyone has a family, so everyone can glean a little something from the story, but it's really meant for those who have been entrusted with more than they need.
And their hearts are asking: what does it look like to steward this surplus faithfully? What is it for? And maybe you know someone who's recently inherited or has decided to sell a business and has a liquidity event coming. The story is meant to help us not only to see wealth as fuel for purpose, but also start building out context for what types of options are out there that are not on most people's radars. When you heard me share my example of investing in a medical company that's trying to solve the cure for cancer, like that's a little small startup company.
Most people are not doing that type of investing. We're mostly doing stocks, bonds, mutual funds, and whatnot. But surplus. Needs to be managed differently than the resources that are needed for our provision. And when we come into that space of being an accredited investor, maybe $5 million and up, or even an accredited investor with over a million, if it's truly a surplus, new options open up to us both in donating and in investing that just maybe have not been a part of the picture up until this point.
And so the story, without being a, you know, there's no sales pitch, but it just gives examples through story of the different types of investment opportunities that the Craig family explores together. I love that. The emotional core is the father-daughter journey between Roger and Willow. What does their arc teach us about aligning head and heart? Yeah, Roger really embodies that technical mastery.
He's not curious at the beginning of the story because he thinks he already has found the answers and the strategies of how to invest for optimization. And then Willow really embodies that relational insight, the longing for transformation. She really wants the world to be a better place. And she also starts not very curious because she doesn't want to think or talk about money. She's seen the ways that pursuing wealth and growing business has actually been costly relationally for her family.
And so she wants nothing to do with it. But what they discover is that as they go on this journey of learning together and even beginning to appreciate and understand each other's perspective. Is that when they come together, they begin to learn what it looks like to balance prudence with hope. responsibility with imagination. Diligence and courage.
And the result of them working together is that they begin moving from just this optimization type of default that we see in investing towards transformation, allowing the capital to move in a direction that's aligned. with calling for the family. Wow, that's powerful. I want to cover an insightful moment in the story where Grands reflects on the windfall from the sale of the business her husband started.
Now, this is fiction, but there's so much truth to it.
So, I'd love for you to actually read a few of those lines for us and let's talk about how real families move from optimization to this purposeful impact you've been talking about without fracturing relationships. Yeah, toward the end of the story when they're kind of coming in for a landing grant, says the uncomfortable truth is that Jack and I probably worked too hard and sacrificed too much, and I can't do anything about that now. The time has been spent, but at least let the money count for something. I want to find where God is at work in the world and join Him in that beautiful work. Even if my part is mostly just writing checks or giving encouragement or praying, I want to punch some holes in the darkness before it's too late.
I think that heart posture that is articulated by Gran is really the sense and kind of the heart that I've heard from a number of different investors who are stewarding a surplus. Yeah.
Well, Rachel, I know this story is near and dear to your heart, and I'm just praying that God uses it to open up a whole new generation of people who are now exposed to aligning their capital to God's redemptive purposes. Thanks for your time today. Yeah, thanks for having me. That's Rachel McDonough. You can find her book, The River and the Garden, and the Garden Audit Assessment at theriverandthegarden.com.
Don't miss it, theriverandthegarden.com. We'll be back with your questions after this break.
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We're gonna begin taking your calls, 800-525-7000. You can call right now. Let's go to Georgia West. How can we help you, sir? Yes, just a quick question.
I have an annuity worth about $28,000 in it. I'm $65,000, and I. I was just thinking about maybe just taking a withdrawal per month and just want to get your opinion on that. Yeah, that's great. Yeah, there's three ways you can get income from an annuity.
You can take just straight withdrawals. You can annuitize where you turn it into a paycheck, either for one life or your life plus maybe a spouse, so a two-life annuitization. Although, when you add a second life, it reduces the amount you're going to get each month. Or you can turn on what's called an income rider if you had that as a feature of the annuity. Let's talk about each of the three.
So, option one: taking more withdrawals, that's going to give you immediate access. It's also going to give you flexibility, but you can run out of money faster. And it's, of course, going to trigger likely at least some taxes that's ordinary income. And you could exceed the free withdrawal limits, depending on how long you've had it, and that would trigger surrender penalties. But it's the simplest.
If you annuitize and turn it into lifetime income, that converts the annuity into guaranteed monthly income.
So you can't outlive it. And it's higher predictable income, but it's irreversible.
So you lose access to the lump sum and it's less flexible for emergencies. If you had the income rider, you know, that could be another option, but you may not have that feature.
So the biggest things to watch, I would say, Wes, are the taxes. You know, just understand that withdrawals are generally taxed as ordinary income, surrender charges if you're still in the surrender period, the loss of future growth. More now coming out means less later. And then longevity risk. If it's not structured as lifetime income, you could drain it too quickly.
So let me stop there and just get your thoughts. I think I want to go to option one. I have a I know their account that I'm not going to take any money out. It has like four hundred sixty thousand dollars in it. And that's just such a small account.
I said I just think to take something just monthly out of it. Yeah, yeah, very good. I think that could be really effective for you because it allows you to, you know, take what you need immediately. It's flexible. Just, yeah, I think use this money in light of your overall plan and make sure you understand the tax implications so that doesn't catch you by surprise.
Wes, sounds like you're on the right track, my friend. Thanks for calling. Lord bless you. Danville, Illinois, is where Tim is located. Go ahead, sir.
Hi, so I was just curious. I've been a member of my church for 10 years here in Danville, been working in the public schools here. And I've been putting part of my salary towards the tithe as I as I have been my whole life, as my parents were doing when they were raising me. But lately our church has been spending the money in a way that I'm just not sure if I agree with. It started off small, it got a drumstep for the band and I don't know about yourself, but I'm more traditional.
I think that the piano and a choir is about all we need. But after the drumstead, I saw that they were putting money towards some charities. We used to give to this women's shelter, but they've been moving away from that, moving towards library donations for the reading programs. Uh which I think is all well and good, but I don't think that's necessarily the Christian way. Yeah.
Well, Tim, I certainly appreciate your transparency on that. Have you set a time aside to go meet with somebody from church leadership, whether it's your pastor or somebody else in leadership, to express your concerns and thoughts? I've not. I've only read the bulletins every week and they're telling us where the money's going, which I appreciate their transparency, but I haven't had a meeting of my own yet. Yeah.
Well, you know, I think if we back up for a second, we realize that as Christ's followers, we should be a part of a local fellowship, a Bible-believing church teaching from God's word the inerrancy of scripture and equipping the body and, you know, developing disciples of Christ. And where we're planted, we see clearly in scripture that we're to support the work of the local church. And I think that should be our first giving priority.
Now, we always need to check our hearts because our giving, you know, needs to be done for the right reasons. I'm not saying yours isn't, but I think at its core, you know, when we think about our giving, you know, our giving really should not be motivated by guilt. It shouldn't be about control.
So we shouldn't, I think, you know, try to use our giving to influence decisions, you know, for specific ministries. And this often comes with giving to maybe a designated fund while withholding support from the general budget. And I think that undermines generosity. I think when we give, we should. Give with open hands and open hearts, trusting that church leaders are seeking guidance and how they use the resources for his purposes, recognizing we may not always agree, but I think faithful giving reflects trust in God's sovereignty and a desire to support his work, even when we don't fully agree with every decision made by church leadership.
Now, I will say, though, if you have genuine concerns, I think it's very appropriate for you to schedule that meeting and for you to go in and say, hey, although I've questioned some things from time to time and I'm going to trust you and I have and I've continued giving and we're fully planted here at this church. And although I may disagree with styles of worship, we're here and this is where God has us in this season. But I think we've gotten to a point now where I'm questioning some of the decisions that are being made about giving to outside entities that really aren't about furthering the gospel. And I'd like to share that concern with you out of mutual respect. Just transparency and just have that conversation.
And perhaps that leads to a change, or maybe not. And then at the end of the day, you'll have to decide whether or not that should be your church home over time. But I think at its core, we need to give as an act of worship. We need to give as a priority and proportionately. And we need to give cheerfully, as Paul says in 2 Corinthians.
And I think where we've been planted, our first priority is the local church. That's God's plan A. And I think there's a balance between trying to micromanage the decisions of the church and you having legitimate concerns about the ways that the church is supporting other outside ministries. And I would say the best approach is not to talk to people about it and kind of create any kind of dispersion, but Just to address it head on by visiting with your pastor or church leadership and making those known. Does that make sense, though?
That does, that's a thoughtful answer and I appreciate that.
Okay. Yeah, absolutely, Tim. And I appreciate you asking the question because listen, you know, I think part of this program, the purpose of it is for us to wrestle through these questions and realize that, you know what, we want to be found faithful. And you are a steward of what God has entrusted to you. And you're trying to be faithful in that, just as I am with what God has entrusted to me.
And there's going to be questions that come up and we all want to get it right. And as long as we're seeking God's wisdom with our hearts in the right place. I think these kinds of conversations are very appropriate and can lead us, I think, ultimately toward, you know. Greater work through our local church, but also greater alignment with God's purposes for the resources He's entrusted to us.
So, listen, I'll ask the Lord to give you wisdom as you navigate this, and hopefully, that conversation you have with. Church leadership will give you more clarity on perhaps what the path forward is. Thanks for calling today, Tim. God bless you, my friend. Big thanks to Adam, Taylor, Patty, and everybody here at Faith By that makes this possible.
If you'd like to support the ministry, go to faithby.com slash give. Have a great weekend, and we'll talk to you next week. Bye-bye. Faith in Finance is provided by FaithFi and listeners like you.
