This Faith in Finance podcast is underwritten in part by Sound Mind Investing. For more than thirty years, do-it-yourself investors have relied on SMI for proven strategies and trustworthy guidance. SMI helps people build wealth so they can provide for their families, prepare for the future, and give generously. Learn more at soundmindinvesting. org.
Amos33 asks: Do two walk together unless they have agreed to meet? Hi, I'm Rob West. In context, that verse speaks to Israel's relationship with God, but it also reminds us of a simple truth that applies to marriage. Two people can't walk together unless they're headed in the same direction. Today, my friend Matt Bell joins us to help couples think about money in ways that strengthen unity rather than create division.
And then we'll take your calls at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7,000. This is Faith in Finance: biblical wisdom for your financial journey.
Well, it's always a pleasure to welcome Matt Bell back to the program. Matt is the managing editor at Sound Mind Investing, one of our valued underwriters, and he has a brand new book out with focus on the family called Starting Strong: Discovering the Good That Money Can Do in Your Marriage. We're excited to talk about it today. Matt, great to have you back, and congrats on the new book. Thanks so much, Rob.
It's really great to be back with you. Let's begin, Matt, with what many couples experience first hand. Why does money so often become a source of division in marriage when God designed it to be an opportunity for unity? Yeah, a lot of it can be attributed to the fact that couples don't enter marriage as blank slates. You know, we all bring money related stuff into our marriage, and that's often very different stuff.
Different financial circumstances, backgrounds, experiences, hopes, dreams, fears, how we saw our parents deal with money. That's a really big one. Temperaments and more. And it's easy for all those differences to just collide with each other, which can happen in the form of day-to-day money management habits that differ. One's a spender, one's a saver.
And especially sometimes when there are really big financial decisions to be made, you know, one wants to stretch and buy as much house as possible, for example, or one wants to play it more conservatively. And of course, these things can be resolved, but it often takes time and patience and some intentional conversations. Yeah, that's well said, Matt. In starting strong, you say that one of the first steps for couples is to cast a shared vision. Talk about what that looks like practically in everyday life.
Yeah, that's right, Rob. Because all the differences we just talked about, it's helpful to find common ground. And I encourage couples to look for that common ground in their shared faith.
So the new book opens with several recommended prayers that are all about committing together through prayer that they'll seek in all things, including money, to serve the Lord, to base their decisions on the solid rock of God's Word. To agree that everything belongs to God and their stewards of all that He's entrusted to them, and to seek unity in their marriage through their financial decision making. I know it's really big picture stuff, but it's essential to start there because that'll get the marriage headed in the right general direction. Yeah. One of the clear questions that comes up time and time again on this program that couples have to wrestle with is whether to combine their finances or keep their accounts separate.
How do you encourage couples to think through that decision? Yeah, I strongly recommend joint accounts.
Now, as you know, there are some accounts that you can't combine, like IRAs, which after all are individual retirement accounts. But for all the accounts that you can combine, like checking accounts and savings accounts, I strongly recommend joint accounts because they foster transparency and teamwork. They prevent secrecy from happening. And I'll tell you, Rob, there was a really interesting study on this topic. It was done at Indiana University, you know, a secular school.
And their researchers found that when couples combine their finances, it reduces financial fights and increases overall marital happiness. But there was also one really interesting, surprising finding from the study, and that is that couples who combine their finances are more likely to do things for their spouse without expecting reciprocity. Yeah, it was surprising. I mean, the lead researcher was asked about that because it did stand out from some of the kind of more predictable findings from the study. And she said that when couples combine finances, they tend to have more of what she called a communal relationship.
And that's where partners respond to each other's needs simply because there's a need. You know, they have more of a we perspective about their marriage rather than a that's yours and this is mine perspective, which impacts all areas of their relationship. That's helpful. Matt, if somebody is not on the same page with their spouse, they'd like to have everything shared. One spouse just feels like that's a recipe for disaster.
How would you encourage that spouse to lean into that conversation? Yeah, I think it starts back to those big picture prayers, you know, looking into scripture, looking into God's word to see what does the Bible teach us about what our marriage is to be about. And I think that if they really earnestly do that work and pray together about that, they will see that marriage is designed. God's vision for marriage is oneness. It's unity.
And combining finances is a step that will really help foster that. We're talking with Matt Bell today. His new book out with focus on the family is called Starting Strong, Discovering the Good That Money Can Do in Your Marriage. More on that straight. Straight ahead, stick around.
We're grateful for support from Guidestone, whose diversified suite of investment solutions align with Christian values to create positive change in the world. More information is available at guidestonefunds.com/slash faith. Investing involves risk, including potential loss of principal. Carefully consider the investment objectives, risks, charges, and expenses of Guidestone Funds before investing. They're distributed by Four Side Funds Distributors LLC, which is not an advisory affiliate, a registered investment advisor, nor do they provide investment advice.
We are grateful for support from Movement Mortgage, who provides residential home loans and reverse mortgage options in all 50 states. Guided by a mission to love and value people, Movement seeks to help individuals and families make informed financial decisions from buying a home to planning for retirement. More information is available at faithfy.com/slash movement. Movement Mortgage LLC supports equal housing opportunity. NMLS number 39179.
For licensing information, visit nmlsconsumeraccess.org. By shifting from a yours and mine mentality to a unified ours, couples can turn money from a source of division into an opportunity for greater unity in marriage. We're talking about money and marriage today with my friend Matt Bell. Matt is the managing editor at Sound Mind Investing, a valued underwriter of this program. His brand new book out with Focus on the Family is called Starting Strong: Discovering the Good That Money Can Do in Your Marriage.
And Matt, we've talked about several key ideas, including the joining together of money and marriage and how that's such an important idea. Another is really around communication. You encourage couples to have regular money meetings.
So, let's get practical for a moment. How often should those happen, and what should couples make sure to cover? Yeah, it's a great question.
So initially, I recommend the couple spend as much time as it takes to develop a cash flow plan aligned with their commitments and goals. That can take some time initially and probably multiple conversations. But once it's up and running, I would carve out then 60 minutes at the end of each month to look at how things went and what might need to change going forward. Over time, those meetings will take less time. But here's an important point.
This isn't just about an end-of-the-month conversation. It's about an ongoing communication. And once you have a cash flow plan established, it's important for both spouses to manage to the numbers in the plan. I like that phrase, manage to the numbers. That means not waiting until the end of the month to see what happened, but actively using their cash flow plan to make things happen, to spend money intentionally.
So, for example, before you go to the grocery store or a clothing store, you're checking to see how you're doing in your clothing or grocery budgets this month. And that information is guiding your decisions in those stores so that you're managing money intentionally. That way, you won't get... It to the end of the month and be completely surprised at how things went. Yeah, that's so helpful.
And I think having that regular rhythm is really key.
Now, debt can almost feel like an unwelcome third party in a marriage, Matt. How can couples face that both honestly, but also work through it together? It's a really, really big factor. One researcher that I read his work, he said that debt is a cancer on marriage. It can create just a lot of stress.
And couples with debt, as they enter their marriage, they tend to spend less time together. I don't know if that's because they're working extra jobs or what that is, but it's just a real negative factor in marriage.
So, if a couple is starting their marriage with any debt other than a reasonable mortgage, I strongly, strongly encourage them to make it a high priority to get out from under that debt sooner than later. Even if that means putting off buying a house, even if that means spending less on vacations or cars or whatever else than your friends are spending. If a couple gets out of debt early in their marriage and stays out of debt other than a reasonable mortgage, that will be so incredibly good for their marriage. I couldn't agree more.
Now, a moment ago, you mentioned a cash flow plan and the importance of it. And you make the point that it's really not about restriction, but direction. I'd love for you to talk about that a bit. Yeah. Sure.
So a lot of people think of a budget as being about less, you know, less spending, less freedom, less fun. But a budget, or as you said, I prefer to call it a cash flow plan, is actually about more. It's about having more knowledge about what's happening with your finances so you can be more intentional in managing those resources.
So you end up having more for the things that really matter to you.
So if people listening to this have never used a cash flow plan before, you may have to take that on faith. It'll take a little getting used to, but soon enough, you'll wonder how you ever lived without it. Yeah, that's right. I love that you focus an entire chapter on generosity. Let's talk about giving and how that can really help to foster unity and bring the couple closer together.
Sure.
So, giving changes the focus from us to God and from us to others. The Bible says that where our treasure is, there our heart will be also.
So, in that sense, giving is a tool of discipleship. You know, when we give to God to further His kingdom work, that just orients our hearts ever more toward Him. And there's such joy in living generously. As a minister, I know likes to say when something amazing, something miraculous happens through our church or another ministry that we support, we didn't cause that to happen, but we got to be a part of that. And there was such great joy in that.
Yeah. Uh perhaps we can bring that to life through a story, Matt. Uh can you share a real life story of a couple who really practiced what you just described and how that then affected their marriage? Absolutely. One of my favorite couples that I've ever interviewed for any of the writing I've done is Scott and Karen.
When they got married, Karen brought $50,000 of non-mortgage debt into their marriage. And Scott had a great sense of humor about it. He called it a reverse dowry, which I love. I love that. But from their very first days as husband and wife, they were truly in it together.
Karen would often express regret about what she kept calling my debt. My debt is keeping us from doing this or that. But Scott, from the earliest days, would correct her and say, it's our debt. I just love that they were truly in it together.
So they were committed to getting out of debt together. And at the same time, they felt compelled to live generously despite that debt.
So as they kept sending these big checks to creditors each month, they also gave at least 10% of their income. And I love this, the phrase they used at that time was 10% of net until we're out of debt. And then they changed it to 10% of gross. Oh, that's great.
So, yeah.
So they were just very convicted, very just motivated to honor God with the first fruits, with the first portion of all that he blessed them with, no matter what. It took them a long time to get out of debt, about seven years. And during that time, there were many days when they wished that they had the resources to buy a home, but they were committed to getting out of debt and committed to living generously. And when they finally got out of debt, when they looked back, they could clearly see God's purposes for all that happened. You know, Karen said it took that time for God to mold her heart and to change some of her attitudes about money.
And as they looked back in a real practical sense, they saw that if they had been able to buy a house on their schedule, it would have been at what turned out to be a peak in the housing market. Oh, wow.
Well, I can hear even in that story that they really are taking a team approach. I mean, even though it's not something fun to think about, it sounds like it was really kind of a tongue-in-cheek approach that they had, which really, I think, just gives a picture of the unity that they were driving toward. right Absolutely. And I think it fostered that unity. It just bound them together in this shared mission to get out of debt.
You know, Scott wasn't blaming Karen for the debt. He wasn't upset about the debt. I mean, sure, he'd rather enter a marriage without debt, but he loved her and wanted to make sure that she didn't feel guilty about the debt she brought into it. He wanted to make her feel and see very clearly that they were in this thing together. That's a beautiful picture.
Matt, we have just about a minute left. For somebody listening right now that just feels stuck, where would they go next? Yeah, I would find time when emotions are under control. You know, usually there's a particular issue. Oftentimes it's debt.
And so find a time when emotions are low and they can truly listen to each other. Deal in facts, not assumptions. I find that often couples are having disagreements when they're not really dealing with the facts, which is why having a cash flow plan is so helpful. Pray together for sure. Keep God at the center of their marriage and their marriage relationship valued much more important than their financial situations.
And if they need help, I mean, there are many churches that have stewardship ministries that would love to come alongside them to encourage them and help them in practical ways with financial coaches. They may even want to avail themselves of a marriage counselor. But through it all, keep that big picture in mind. Keep your focus on honoring God with your finances and keeping your marriage strong. Matt, this has been so helpful and encouraging.
So thankful for you, my friend. Thanks for stopping by today. It's my pleasure, Rob. That's Matt Bell, managing editor at Sound Mind Investing. All right, folks, you gotta go get it.
The book is called Starting Strong: Discovering the Good That Money Can Do in Your Marriage. Buy it wherever you buy books. And check out soundmindinvesting.org as well.
Soundmind Investing has been a long time partner and underwriter of ours here at Faith and Finance. Your calls are next: 800-525-7000. This is Faith in Finance, biblical wisdom for your financial journey. We'll be right back. Are you feeling overwhelmed by credit card debt?
As followers of Christ, we are called to be good stewards of what God has given us. That's why our trusted partner, Christian Credit Counselors, is here to help. Their debt management program can help you pay off your debt 80% faster while honoring your commitments in full. Take the first step toward financial freedom today. Visit faithby.com/slash ccc or call 800-557-1985.
Yeah. Faith in Finance is grateful for support from Sound Mind Investing. For more than 30 years, they've offered financial wisdom for living well. SMI provides step-by-step guidance for do-it-yourself investors. from those just getting started to those getting ready for retirement.
More information, including the short video webinar on profit and peace of mind no matter what's happening in the market, is available at soundmindinvesting.org. Taking your calls today here on Faith and Finance, 800-525-7000. West Virginia is where Tina's located. Go ahead. Hello, Rob.
I was just questioning you about the importance of investing in gold and silver physically. in retirement. Got it. Yeah, it's a great question.
A lot of people wrestle with that. Where does that fit in a properly diversified portfolio? I wouldn't say it's essential, but I would say it can play a supporting role in a retirement portfolio. Why is that?
Well, what do gold and silver actually do?
Well, precious metals are, you might have heard of them referred to as a store of value. A potential inflation hedge and a way to diversify. And yes, they are all three of those things. And so when we think about inflation, which has certainly been top of mind the last five, six years, we think about a currency decline. We think about an asset not tied to the stock market, which means not all of your eggs are in one basket.
That's where gold does well.
Now, the limitations of gold, and this is key, are that, first of all, there's no income.
So, real estate can generate an income if you rent it out. Stocks can pay dividends. That's an income. Gold and silver don't pay any interest and they don't produce any dividends. And in retirement, in particular, where income matters, we just need to factor that in.
It doesn't mean we stay away from it. We just need to recognize that. The prices can also be pretty volatile. We can see sharp swings.
Now, gold has done quite well over the last several years, but it's had long periods with little growth, which is why, over the long haul, gold and silver are slightly more volatile than the stock and bond portfolio and have less long-term average annual performance. And then there's an opportunity cost because money in metals is not. Growing like stocks, not producing an income like bonds.
So, given all of that, how should you approach it? I think for most people, having a 5% allocation is certainly appropriate, even in a retirement season. And I'll call that your forever allocation, where you might buy the physical gold. And store it in a safe deposit box, keep it forever, and pass it down. And then, if you want to go up above that, I would say you'd max out at a 10% position.
And for that second 5%, I'd probably use something called an exchange-traded fund, which is essentially where you're buying. Like a stock, but it's pegged to the price of gold and it moves with the price of gold.
So it's essentially like owning gold, but you don't have to buy it from a dealer and pay the markup and pay the shipping and then store it safely and in a safe or a safe deposit box.
So you get an allocation of gold without having some of the downsides of just buying it and storing it securely.
So let me stop there and just get your questions or thoughts on all that. I agree with that. I was just wondering the percentage as far as the percentage of gold and silver. What do you think about the actual investment with silver, not necessarily always just gold or a combination of both? Yeah, yeah, it's a good question.
They play different roles. And so gold is more stable. It's that store of value. It moves more with inflation and currency concerns. It's used by central banks around the world.
So think preservation, wealth preservation, when we think gold. Silver is more volatile. There's industrial uses, it's used in electronics, solar, and other industries. It moves more with economic cycles. Than gold does.
So, you know, I think how to split them.
So, if you want somewhere between 5% total in metals, I would probably go 80% gold and 20% silver. You could even go 90% gold, 10% silver. That would be a more conservative approach. Moderate might be 70% to 80% gold, 20% to 30% silver. And then, if you wanted to be more aggressive, because again, gold is a little more volatile, although that brings with it more upside potential.
I would say 60%, 40 would be the more aggressive, less common approach, 60 gold, 40% silver.
Okay, that sounds good. Tina, I appreciate your call today. Thanks for being with us. We're grateful to have you on the program. Let's finish up today with a call in Missouri.
Janice has been holding patiently. And Janice, I know you have a home that you've inherited you want to talk about what to do with. Go ahead. Yes, thank you so much. It's just between my sister and I to divide the house with about three hundred to three hundred fifty thousand.
It was my mom passed almost a year ago in November. And I lost my job, and so I wouldn't qualify for a loan, which would probably be up near $150 or so, or maybe $175.
However, I'm in between, have some unemployment, do have 401k that I possibly could convert to an IRA. And then I'll be hoping to get Social Security in February of next year if we can wait till then.
So I just wanted your thoughts on that and if that's a good idea to go ahead and buy it versus go ahead and sell it and then I'm kind of stuck with something smaller, I'm sure. Yeah, yeah. What are your intentions? I mean, if money was no object, what do you and your sister want to do with this property?
Well, we just She wants to settle the estate.
So one way or another, it's pretty much up to me. I just know the clock is ticking. And as far as my heart, I'm still a little torn. But I'd like to stay because I think it'd be financially Smart? Yeah.
Okay.
So she's not interested in moving into it, but you possibly are? I'm already living there. I moved back home to help my mom, and then she and her husband have a house, and they're fine. Got it. Got it.
Okay.
Yeah, you know, so here's the thing. I mean, whenever we inherit an asset like this, we've got to decide what's the best use of this money as the steward. I think the challenge is it'd be one thing if you could go out and get a loan and qualify for that to buy out your sister's portion, assuming it's owned free and clear. And so you just have to cover her 50%. But without having employment, that's going to be difficult.
And so I think because of that, and because this estate isn't going to need to be settled, and probably sooner than when you would get on Social Security, which may be the difference in you, you know, qualifying for this, it seems like you just going ahead and selling this, rolling that 401k over to an IRA, living off of the income from that 401k. And if you have, you know, 200,000 in there, you know, you should be able to pull about 8,000 a year from that.
So about $650 a month.
So if you can live on $650 a month plus your Social Security, assuming you're not planning on continuing to work at least part-time, then I think you could be in good shape there. Maybe you go find something smaller to buy. But I think, just given the situation and given your sister's desire to kind of close the estate and move on, it just doesn't seem like there's a really logical path forward to you staying in the house. It'd be one thing if you owned it outright. But with it being shared, unless she's willing to wait on this thing, I'd probably just go ahead and sell it, pay her her half, and then move on to what's next for you.
I wouldn't pull that money out of the 401k. That would create a huge taxable event. Janice, I appreciate your call today and thanks for your patience. God bless you. That's going to do it for us.
So thankful to have you along with us today on Faith and Finance. I'm Rob West. A big thanks to my team today: Pat, Sandy, Devin, Jim, couldn't do it without them, and everybody here at FaithFi that makes this happen. We'll see you next time. Bye-bye.
Faith in Finance is provided by FaithFy and listeners like you. Yeah.
