What matters most to you when selecting a financial advisor?
Someone who shares your biblical values? How about someone who will take the time to explain your financial options clearly? Certified kingdom advisors meet high standards of competence, integrity, and biblical training, equipping them to offer financial advice grounded in God's Word. No more wondering if your advisor truly understands what's important to you. Find a certified kingdom advisor near you at findaca.com.
That's findacaka.com. When the paycheck stops and retirement income begins, how should giving change? Hi, I'm Rob West. During our working years, giving often feels straightforward, but in retirement, income may come from Social Security, pensions, investments, or savings. And that can raise new questions about what to give from and how to think about it biblically.
Anthony Saffer joins us today to help us think wisely and faithfully about tithing in retirement. And then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000. This is Faith and Finance: biblical wisdom for your financial decisions.
Well, our guest today is my friend Anthony Saffer, CEO of One Degree Advisors. He's also a certified financial planner, a certified kingdom advisor, and host of the Retire Confidently YouTube channel. Anthony, great to have you here. Good to be with you, Rob. Anthony, you wrote about this in the latest issue of Faithful Stewart magazine, and it's a question we hear from listeners all the time.
How should retirement change the way we think about tithing? I'd love for you to unpack that a bit. Yeah, during our working years, giving is usually tied to a steady paycheck, often, and it becomes simple and predictable. And in retirement, income can be irregular and it can come from multiple sources.
Some of that money may have already been tithed upon during your working years, and that can create uncertainty about what really counts as income or increase.
So the question becomes less about whether to give and more about how to apply that wisely. Yeah, you're exactly right. And before we get into the practical details, I'd love for you just to frame this up with the biblical principle or principles that should guide our thinking on this. You know, 2 Corinthians 9:7, it reminds us that each one must give as he's decided in his heart, not reluctantly or under compulsion. I really love that whole passage.
And so, while theology about tithing may differ, giving in the broader sense is a matter of the heart, and generosity flows from gratitude for God's grace. We must remember that as the foundation, and that truth applies in every season, including retirement. Yeah, that's right. I mean, we're quick to say that giving should be a response to God's grace. It should be freely and joyfully given, consistent and proportional, and really directed to those causes that honor God.
And I love the tithe as kind of a beginning point to all this. It's systematic, it's easy to calculate. I know Randy Alcourt calls it the training wheels of giving.
So it's a great way to approach our giving. And many believers still view the tithe as really that helpful starting point.
So does retirement change how we should think about that? I don't think so too much. For many of us, the tithe remains a helpful and a time-tested starting point. I love what Randy Auckhorn says about tithing being the training wheels of giving, and then therefore we can bounce off of that to have a greater and greater impact. But the tithe provides structure and consistency in giving.
And retirement doesn't remove that desire. It simply raises new questions about how to apply that principle. Yeah. And really, what it comes down to, and you referenced this in your article, is this difference between an increase and a return of principle. And I'd love for you to frame that up before the first break as we begin to think practically about how to approach this.
Increase refers to new earnings or growth, what's been gained. And that's why tithing on a paycheck, when it's earnings, tends to be straightforward. Return of principal is money you've already earned and may have tithed upon. Retirement income often includes both principal and earnings, especially from investments. And distinguishing between the two can help guide thoughtful giving.
It's not always precise, you know, but it gives you a helpful lens. We always like to say that clarity in retirement brings confidence, and that applies to your spending, your investments, and even giving. Yeah, that's right. And this idea of increase versus return of principal becomes much more prevalent in retirement because of the various sources of income we have, right? That's right.
And those sources can be quite diversified. Everything from investments to Social Security, those direct sources of income like a pension, they can be quite wide and varied. Yeah, that's right. And so we need to think about these types of income we're going to have and then come up with a framework that we're going to apply to how we consistently give a tithe. Because often what we hear from listeners is you want to continue tithing in retirement.
You just don't know what that should look like.
So after the break, we'll come back with Anthony Saffer today and we'll talk about those frameworks, a couple of different approaches that you can take as you think about continuing to tithe, but in this fourth quarter of life where you have different types of income and maybe you're left confused. Anthony Saffer's here today. He's CEO of One Degree Advisors. He's a certified kingdom advisor and he wrote an article on this in Faithful Stewart. Back with more right after this break.
Stick around. Have you ever started a budget only to watch it fall apart a few weeks later? You're not alone. The FaithFi app is the leading Christian budgeting app, combining smart budgeting tools, automated budgeting, and personalized insights with daily rhythms of scripture, short devotionals, and guided reflection. Manage God's money God's way.
Start your free 30-day trial today to lock in 25% savings for a limited time at faithfy.com slash app. FaithFi's preferred banking partner is Christian Community Credit Union, now joined with Adelphi, a division of CCCU, bringing you the best in Christian banking for Greater Kingdom Impact. With high-yield checking, savings, VisaCash back cards, and a new competitive high-yield money market account, your everyday banking helps advance the gospel. Visit faithfy.com slash banking and use the code FaithFu. Membership eligibility required.
Accounts are privately insured up to $250,000. This institution is not federally insured. Uh Yeah. What does tithing look like in retirement? We're going to help you think about that today.
Anthony Saffer is here. Anthony is CEO of One Degree Advisors. He's a certified financial planner and a certified kingdom advisor, and he wrote a really thoughtful article in our latest issue of Faithful Stewart magazine on this very issue. And Anthony, before we get into some frameworks where we can help folks think about their tithe in the fourth quarter of life, I'd love for you to reframe this idea on the types of income we have in retirement that makes this a little more challenging and this distinction between increase and return of principal. We did get that question from many of our clients and continued to: how do I tithe in retirement?
Because it is different. Income sources are varied. You have income sources like Social Security and pensions, perhaps withdrawing from investments. They reflect years of contributions, sometimes with growth. And hopefully, that with our investments and investment withdrawals, they often include that principle plus years of gains, years of growth.
And if you take brokerage accounts, IRAs, rental income, they can blur the lines quite a bit. And unfortunately, tax treatment doesn't always clarify what's new. versus what's previously earned. That does make a precise calculation difficult.
So, having that practical framework that you mentioned becomes really important. Yeah, I think that's exactly right. And for folks that call this program, they're just wanting to know what does faithfulness look like in this season, recognizing that the tithe isn't the ending point, it's a beginning point, and then we give sacrificially beyond that. But I want to continue to tithe. I just don't know how to do it.
And I know you offered two helpful frameworks in this article.
So let's dig into the first one. Absolutely. And I think as you approach these frameworks, as you're considering which option to go forward with, do it prayerfully in communication with your spouse if you're married. The first approach is to tithe on the portion that represents increase or growth.
So, for comparison, when working, your paycheck may be direct deposited to a bank account and you tithe on it.
However, when you go to an ATM and you pull out some cash, most people wouldn't necessarily consider that income or increase and tithe again on that cash.
So, this approach in retirement may involve estimating how much of an account represents gains or that increase versus contributions.
Now, for long-term investors, a significant portion may be growth, but it aims to avoid retithing on money already given. Mm. Yeah, that's really helpful. And how would someone actually begin to estimate that? You can review contribution history, account statements.
I would say more choose a reasonable percentage split between principal and growth based on estimates, because it may not be realistic to go back decades even and know the division of your principal versus earnings. And that estimate can be applied consistently over time, or some will revisit and adjust, especially if there's new growth in the investments. It doesn't have to be perfect. In fact, it never will be, just thoughtful and intentional. Anthony, do you recommend a general percentage for folks as they're thinking about, for instance, Social Security?
Or is it really very so much that you need to go look at your contribution statement? You know, it's interesting with Social Security. I was doing some research on this. Most of our contributions, if you inflation adjust it, it's really our contributions with that inflation return applied, maybe with some growth on top of that.
So a lot of it actually is principal.
Now, a lot of our clients aren't going to necessarily say, at least when they take a fresh look at it and prayerfully look at it, they don't necessarily say, well, I've tithed on everything. Therefore, I'm not going to tithe on my Social Security. In reality, that's not so much how it happens, but quite a bit can be.
Now, you will look at what has your employer contributed, even with a pension. We find that our clients, they contribute partially towards their pension, and then maybe their employer does. And in fact, usually their employer does. Investments, you know, obviously can have a much different breakdown in terms of what is principal versus what is growth. Yeah, that's really helpful.
All right, let's get into the second approach that retirees might consider. Yeah, the second approach is to tithe on income as it's received. That includes Social Security, pension payments, or investment withdrawals. It mirrors how many people gave during their working years. Receive income, tithe upon it.
It prioritizes that simplicity, consistency, and impact. It removes the need for ongoing calculations besides the applied 10% or even more in terms of the percentage that you want to give off of that income. Yeah, I think the idea here is just to say everything I receive is a gracious gift from God. And my natural response is just to return a portion of that systematically back to the Lord. But for some that might say, wait, isn't that tithing again on money I've already given from?
What do you say? Yeah, that can certainly be true in the common sources of retirement income that we've mentioned. But what we see from those that use this approach is it emphasizes generosity over precision. And for many, that simplicity helps them stay consistent in giving. It's that clarity we talked about earlier, which can lead to confidence and hopefully success in retirement.
And honestly, it reflects a heart posture that prioritizes faithfulness. It's a way to maximize impact. I know, looking at my church, when I tithe, I'm happy to do that joyfully because I see the impact that my church makes in terms of missions, both within the United States and outside, how it helps single mothers, how it helps at-risk youth. I'm happy to contribute towards that. And I think that's how the Lord wants us to approach tithing.
Yeah, so we've got these two approaches. One that recognizes a portion of what I'm receiving from a pension or Social Security or investment withdrawals is in fact a return of principal. And if I tithed on the gross during my working years, I've already tithed on a portion of that. And so I maybe kind of back into a rough or a loose percentage that I'm tithing on that I consider true increase. The second is I tithe on everything.
How would you counsel somebody to determine which of these two approaches is best for them? It really comes down to personal conviction and priorities.
Some value precision and want to avoid double counting. In fact, maybe budgets are tight and you want to set up that foundation where you're looking at principal and not retithing upon that, and then maybe building off that over time. Of course, as we started our conversation, giving out of the abundant grace God has given us, I hope, is considered. Others do value that simplicity and consistency. Your overall giving goals, unity with your spouse can help guide the choice.
But both approaches can honor the Lord when they're done thoughtfully and joyfully. Yeah, and I think the key idea here that comes out in your article is that the goal is faithful, joyful giving, not a math equation, right? That's absolutely true. It never is perfect. Even when we take a simple approach, there's always that question of increase.
There's the story in Luke where Jesus is talking with the Pharisees who are meticulously counting every detail, and he really implores them to tithe, but to do it with love and justice. Yeah, it's well said. What would you finish with today here as we tie a bow on this? And somebody listening today who wants to be faithful in their giving, what would you leave them with? It's easy to overcomplicate this and feel pressure, to be exact.
Many of our clients who've asked this question: how do I tithe in retirement? And I will say that it led to many interesting and beneficial conversations that made us all better for it. Scripture does point to the heart, not a perfect formula. And I think focusing on the goal of faithful, joyful giving is really important here.
So helpful, Anthony, and a great reminder that giving, as you said, is a response to the overflow of grace that we've received.
So, in retirement, the goal isn't perfect math, but a faithful and joyful heart. Thanks for being with us today, my friend. My pleasure, Rob. That's Anthony Saffer, CEO of One Degree Advisors, certified kingdom advisor, and author of the article on this topic in Faithful Stewart, our magazine. If you'd like to get every issue, go to faithfy.com slash give today to learn how to become a partner.
That's faithfy.com/slash give. And if you want to learn more about OneDegree, go to oneedegreeadvisors.com. Back with your questions after this: 800-525-7000. Stick around. We are grateful for support from Praxis Investment Management.
Since 1994, Praxis has offered investment products designed to meet practical needs for everyday investors seeking to steward their assets consistent with their desire to promote positive social and environmental impacts. Praxis aims to bring a faith-based approach to ETFs, mutual funds, multi-fund portfolio solutions, and money market accounts, reflecting their 500-year-old Anabaptist Christian faith tradition. More information is available at PraxisInvest.com. We are grateful for support from Movement Mortgage, who provides residential home loans and reverse mortgage options in all 50 states. Guided by a mission to love and value people, Movement seeks to help individuals and families make informed financial decisions from buying a home to planning for retirement.
More information is available at faithfy.com/slash movement. Movement Mortgage LLC supports equal housing. Opportunity. NMLS number 39179. For licensing information, visit NMLSconsumerAccess.org.
So thankful to have you with us today on Faith and Finance. I'm Rob West, and I'm ready to dive into your questions today on anything financial. The number to call is 800-525-7000. We've got some lines open that probably won't be the case a little later in the broadcast.
So, call now with whatever you're wrestling with in your financial life, and here's our promise to you: we'll be hopeful and encouraging as you invite us into your story, always pointing you back to scripture so we can look at money through the lens of a biblical worldview, that we're managers or stewards of the King of Kings resources, that God has a lot to say on this topic.
Now, it's not that He needs our money, He owns the cattle on a thousand hills, but instead, it's what He wants for us. He knows, and it's clear in God's word that if we allow it to, money will compete with God for first position in our lives. Our culture reinforces this idea that our self-worth. Is equal to our net worth.
Well, we just know that's simply not true. Our identity is rooted in Christ. God is our ultimate treasure, and money, well, it's one of God's good gifts that we can use to provide and enjoy, but also to bless others around us. And that comes through our generosity. But I realize you have practical daily decisions that you're wrestling with in your financial life.
And so each day on this program, we tackle those together.
So call right now. What are you waiting for? 800-525-7,000. I'd love to talk to you today. All right, let's head to the phones to Louisiana.
Patrice, go ahead. Hi, um Um my mom is getting um older. She's going to be 78. And um she's She's perfectly fine taking care of herself and everything, her own finances right now. But I'm thinking about the future, and we both are.
Um she doesn't want to lose control of her finances right now, so she doesn't want a general power of attorney. She wants a springing power of attorney, but I'm having trouble finding one, and I was wondering if you could help me. Mm. Yeah. Have you visited with an estate attorney?
She doesn't have um an estate. She lives in a mobile home that's unpaid for and she just it just To take over, like her banking, if something were to happen. And that sort of thing. Yeah. Yeah.
Well, what you're going to need an attorney who could talk you through all this. I mean, attorneys prefer the immediate, durable power of attorney where the document is effective immediately, but the chosen agent, which would likely be you, just simply agrees not to act until needed. But legally, your mom still keeps control as long as she's competent. Whereas what you're describing as the springing power of attorney is for the reason you described, where she keeps full control and the power only springs into effect later if specific conditions occur, usually incapacitation deemed by a doctor. But the trade-off is that it can create delays or complications during a crisis.
And that's why banks may hesitate or institutions may require proof of incapacity, or doctors need to certify competency loss, things like that. And I think that's why you'll see more of the durable power of attorney. But these are the kinds of questions you would talk through because, really, this is a legal question. It's also a family trust question. And, you know, regardless of which direction you go, you want the documents done in advance.
So it's good that you all are thinking about this now. But most parties, attorneys, and the institutions that would be the ones honoring this legal document are going to prefer the durable power of attorney. But it doesn't mean you can't do this. If this is your mom's wishes, you're just going to need an estate attorney who can do it for you.
So if you don't have someone, I would suggest you reach out to a certified kingdom advisor there in Louisiana and ask for a referral. Every CKA will have an estate attorney that they work with.
So just go to findacka.com and you could do a zip code search and then you could ask for a referral. Um, thank you very much. Absolutely. Thanks for your call, Patrice. I appreciate you being on the program.
To Texas, let's finish up today in Texas with Marco. Go ahead, sir. Hey, I'm in Magnolia, Texas. Thank you for taking my call. And a lot of families and kids out here.
Can afford programs like uh flag football, baseball. uh different sports jiu-jitsu and I'm just trying to meet with him. At the park. At a certain day of the weed. But I noticed the group is growing larger and larger.
And I can't really afford to be getting flags and all that stuff and different things. How do I go about asking like NSL teams or places for sponsorship? Do I need to start a nonprofit first? Or can I just go out there and talk to them? Yeah.
Well, you certainly could ask for sponsorship as just a small business without the time and expense of getting the nonprofit. If you're going to seek charitable contributions, then you are, you know, going to need that nonprofit status. I mean, I think it's a great mission, but I think it's probably best to start simple and organized. You know, a lot of nonprofits fail because they try to build a huge organization before approving the program. It sounds like you've already had some success.
In fact, you've had more success than you can handle.
So that's a good sign. But, you know, I think ultimately what you're going to need to do is define the mission clearly. And then you're going to want to, in order to go down this road, if you do want to be able to take charitable donations, you're going to have to form a board. You'll have to incorporate as a nonprofit in the state.
So you'll form a legal entity and then you will, you know, have a CPA do the form 1023, I believe it is. To apply for the 501 status with the IRS, you're going to want somebody who has expertise in doing that because if you fill it out right, it can move quickly. In fact, we just formed a new nonprofit here at Kingdom Advisors recently for a specific purpose. And we were expecting it to take four to six months. It actually took less than five weeks from the time we submitted until getting the IRS determination letter.
But there's some costs involved. I mean, it's going to cost you a couple of grand. You're going to have to put that board together. You'll incorporate. Then you'll get a CPA or an attorney to file that 501c3 tax exempt status.
You'll open a separate bank account. You'll have to create bylaws and accountability systems. Start having board meetings, but that does give you the ability then to start doing some fundraising from local businesses and churches and individuals on a tax-deductible basis. But if you don't want to go through that step yet, then I think you certainly could do this out of a small business and just get sponsorships. But you know, they're not going to be able to see that as a charitable contribution.
So I think this is kind of that point where you've got to decide the path forward. And starting small and simple is always best before you add a lot of complexity and cost, which you would have with the nonprofit.
So you'd have to be committed to it and have some folks that would be willing to come alongside you to serve. On a board capacity and really help you get this in place and get it moving forward.
So, Marco, hopefully, that gives you a few things to think about. We appreciate you being on the program, sir. Thanks for your great idea and how you're serving your community. Lord bless you.
Well, that's gonna do it for us today. Big thanks to my team today.
So thankful for our call screener today, as well as Dan and Amy and Jim. Couldn't do them without them. Hope you'll come back and join us next time, and we'll do it all over again. Until then, God bless you. Bye-bye.
Faith in Finance is provided by FaithFi and listeners like you.
