This Faith and Finance podcast is underwritten in part by one assent. If you believe God is the owner, then that makes you a steward. And as a steward of God's resources, shouldn't you consider aligning His assets with His principles by investing in companies that bless mankind instead of causing harm? Our trusted partner, One Assent Investments, calls this values-based investing. One Ascent believes that if your values inspire the way you live, they should also inspire the way you invest.
To learn more about making a positive impact in the world through your portfolio, please visit investments.1ascent.com or speak with your financial advisor about OneAccent Investments today. When it comes to money, the issue isn't just budgets or bank accounts, it's identity and ownership. I am Rob West. In Christ, we're a new creation in God's dwelling place, which means money is something we manage for the owner. Today, we'll explore what it looks like to live as God's stewards with Dr.
Derwin Gray. Then it's on to your phone calls at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. This is Faith in Finance, biblical wisdom for your financial journey.
Well, what a treat to welcome Dr. Derwin Gray today. He serves as the lead pastor of Transformation Church in South Carolina and is a compelling voice on what it means to live as God's steward. Pastor Derwin, what an honor to have you here, sir. Thank you guys.
I'm so happy to be with you guys. I'm really looking forward to the show. About a year or so ago, I looked at our congregation and I repented to them and I said, you know, guys. I have not done a good enough job. of teaching you that you're financial stewardship, your financial generosity.
is intrinsic to worship and discipleship, and I'm going to do a better job of equipping you. And it was utterly outstanding. Not only has given gone up, but faith has risen up as well.
So it's been. It's been pretty awesome. Wow. You know, there's something about Dr. Gray to get to what you're talking about here.
The way we handle money is often one of the primary ways God shapes our spiritual journey because it's that tangible expression every day of what we value and where we place our trust. You know, the late Tim Keller said, among all the counterfeit gods, perhaps money is the most common counterfeit God. And so you're right. We need to deal with this. And I believe the local church should be the ultimate source of financial wisdom because we know what God's word has to say.
2,300 verses on this. Let's talk about that difference between ownership and stewardship: that we don't have ownership rights, we have stewardship responsibilities. That's a big shift in mindset. What are the implications of that?
Well, it is. It is a massive shift. I think that even for Christians, It's important for us to understand: number one, God doesn't want something from us, he wants something for us. And what does He want for us? He wants us to have a heart of generosity like His, He wants us to be filled with love, He wants us.
to not deal with idolatry. And so financial giving and generosity and stewardship. Is I am a manager of that which God has graciously given to me. And it starts with understanding this. 1 Corinthians 6:19 says that we were perfect.
purchased. By Jesus, that literally God the eternal Son. Purchased us.
So when we've been redeemed, yes, forgiven, declared righteous, God's forever friend, his dwelling place.
Now it's not my will be done, it's thy will be done because you've been so good to me.
So, I am now a manager of every aspect of life that you give me. And the greatest tension that I see, and we can strip it all away, is the words of Jesus is still right. in Matthew six twenty four. You cannot serve both God and money. Mm-hmm.
is meant to be used for the purposes of God. But when you use money to take the purpose of God, it leads to idolatry. Boy, that is so well said. You know, and I think just to underscore that, I mean, money is God's creation. It's a good gift from a good God, the God who is the author of delight and joy, and yet it's a source of so much frustration for so many.
What happens when we get money out of its proper place as a tool and all of a sudden it becomes the end rather than a means to an end? Yeah, you know, one of the illustrations, I recently did a Sermon at Transformation Church entitled I Am a Steward. And I shared the story of Schmeagel. From the Lord of the Rings, the Hobbit. Shmiegel was a hobbit who found a ring.
The ring had dark power, and he called it my precious, and it began to deform him. And so, when we worship money, it actually dehumanizes us and deforms us. Yeah. And so When we allow the transforming presence of God's grace, then we see money for what it is. A resource, not a God.
Oh wow. That is so good. We're talking today with Dr. Derwin Gray. We're so delighted to have him here today.
He's lead pastor of Transformation Church in South Carolina. When we come back, much more about our identity in Christ and how that changes everything about the way we manage money. This is Faith and Finance. I'm Rob West. Stick around.
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Soundmindinvesting.org What happens when we put money in its proper place, a tool to bring God glory, to enjoy, to give away as we love our neighbor, even to invest strategically?
Well, it changes everything about the why and the how of money management. I'm delighted to be joined today on the broadcast by Dr. Derwin Gray. He's lead pastor of Transformation Church in South Carolina and really a compelling voice on what it means to live as God's steward. Dr.
Gray, before the break, we were talking about this role of stewardship and understanding God's design for money, how if we're not careful, it can become an idol very easily, especially in the most prosperous nation in the history of the world. But when we put it in its proper place to bring God glory, to accomplish his purposes, one of those natural byproducts of living that way is generosity. And you believe that's an act of worship rather than duty. Talk to us about that. Yeah.
You know, the Apostle Paul in Second Corinthians, I believe chapter eight, verse nine, he says to the Corinthian church, as he was raising financial support for the primarily Jewish church in Jerusalem that was suffering and poor, He said to these mixed people groups throughout Corinth, he says, For you know the grace of God. Even though he was rich, he became poor for our sake, that we would be rich in Christ. And so his entire motivation flows from this reality that generosity is not humanity's idea. Generosity is intrinsic to who God is. God is a giver, and he gave the greatest treasure.
Treasure, there is Jesus. To redeem us, So that we too could have the identity of generosity, that within our spiritual DNA is resurrection power that says, a generous God generously rescued me.
So therefore, generosity flows from who I am.
So we need to learn how to steward God's financial resources. his way and not the world's way. What are what are things that we say? Is number one, give your first and your best to God. Kind of like Abel in the Bible, give your first and your best.
And why do you do that? Because, number one, he's worth it. Number two, it's your identity. And number three, there are benefits from trusting God with your resources, like number one. Peace.
There's so many people who live in chaos. Number two, when I can trust God with my money, which is his. I can trust him with other decisions in my life.
So it's an act of obedience, and worship is simply another word for God. I give you my life because you gave your life for me. Yeah, it's an overflow of the immeasurable grace that has already been extended to us. And, you know, to go back to God's word in the New Testament, the Apostle Paul wrote in Ephesians 4: you know, let the thief steal no longer, let him work with his hands, doing honest work, so that, and isn't this interesting, he may have something to share with anyone in need.
So it's to your point that perhaps one of the primary reasons God entrusts to us what He does is so we can be generous. But, you know, we've got this tension that those of us in the West experience, just given the incredible prosperity all around us, and that is to determine how do we train our hearts toward generosity so that we don't just continue to raise our standard of living, but we raise our standard of giving. What does that look like? I think what it looks like is this: whatever you dwell on the most, whatever you appreciate the most, and Jesus said it this way in Matthew 6:21, for where you're treasure is, your heart will be there also. And so, when we get a glimpse, when we gaze upon the beauty of Jesus, the everlasting greatness of his grace and mercy, and we've tasted and seen that the Lord is good, we want to organize our lives around that.
But it comes back to identity. If I am a steward, a manager of God's resources. Then, regardless of how I feel, the truth dictates that I give God my first and best. It also means I learn how to save. I learned how to invest.
I learned how to pay off debt. And so, God wants us to have joy with financial resources. Joy is a part of the fruit of the spirit, but I can't have joy. If I'm filled with anxiety with money, if I'm filled with greed. And that's one of the biggest things that I see.
I see a lot of followers of Jesus. Who don't trust God with their finances thus? Other parts of their lives are in chaos. When I can trust God with my resources, which are his, I can trust him in other parts of my life. I was recently sitting down with a man, and we were talking, and I was sharing with him.
And I preached this from the pulpit that my wife and I gave 23% of our income to Transformation Church in 2024 because we believe in Transformation Church. And he looked at me and he said, if I did that, That would have been $180,000 for my last paycheck. And I looked at him and I said, We're in the process of raising $300,000 to put two Bible translations in the language that people don't have a Bible. I said, You could have done that. By yourself, and he looked at me and said, I can't even account for where that money went.
Uh Wow. But guess what? The very next day I got a text from him with automatic giving. The generosity of God and what he could do overwhelmed him, But, like, you know what? My life is chaotic.
I have anxiety. Being stingy to God is not helping me alleviate anxiety, it's making it worse. And so, there's an element of. it is indeed better to give than receive. Because as you are giving, you're giving away not just.
Resources for God's glory, but you're giving away anxiety, you're giving away idolatry, you're giving away stress, and our financial resources, how we steward them, is a portrait of our spiritual formation and discipleship. And so, I think as God's people respond to God's grace and live lives of generosity, not only does He put more into your heart and into your hands, you're able to trust Him in greater, more profound ways in your marriage. your singleness in your work. And in the earth.
Well, that's exactly right. And what a privilege it is to partner with God, for God to allow us to participate in His activity through our giving. As a pastor, what excites you most about what's possible? through the local church that's fully funded by God's stewards. Oh well.
Last year, we baptized over 300 people. We're going to baptize over 300 more people this year. We have a free grocery store where we feed 500 people per month. In the last several years, we paid off nearly $30 million of. uh insurance medical debt We're planning churches internationally.
There is so much that can be done to help. this world that is in desperate need. And as we release the resources God puts in our hands. It is to bless. Other people, but it also blesses us.
There is a blessing in obedience. Obedience is a word that simply means this: I follow God because His grace. has pulled me Like gravity towards him. Obedience is not something you grit your teeth. It's something that we run towards because the Spirit of God is carrying us.
on the loving wings of Jesus's grace. And When you fall in love with Jesus, when you treasure Jesus, and the Holy Spirit fills you. he begins to shape Or Understanding of stewardship. I am a manager of what God has put into my hands, and let's manage it wisely and beautifully. This is a high calling, folks.
You and I are money managers for the King of Kings. Dr. Derwin Gray has been our guest today. He's lead pastor of Transformation Church in South Carolina. Dr.
Gray, we just scratched the surface, so we're going to have to have you back. Thanks for stopping by. Thank you. That's Pastor Derwin Gray. We're going to take a quick break, then back with your questions after this.
The number? 800-525-7,000. That's 800-525-7,000. Stick around. FaithFi is grateful for support from One Ascent.
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We're taking your calls and questions. We have just a few lines open, but. They are open.
So if you call right now, you'll get through 800-525-7000. All right, let's hit to the phones. Joseph is in Tennessee. Go ahead, sir. Yeah.
I ended up uh having to retire because of uh health issues for me and my wife. Before I wanted to, and I never, because of the job I was working, I was a custodian in an ER. I never had the opportunity to set aside any money or Or save anything, or set a you know, just every time I tried, something would come up. Yeah. And I was wondering what the best way to manage whatever resources I have 'cause I'm on Social Security and my wife is on uh disability social security and we don't have but $2,400 a month.
Yeah, yeah.
Well, I certainly understand that, Joseph, and I realize how challenging that can be. And the priority right now is stability and protection, not growth. Of course, after we understand that God owns it all and that you're a steward, that's really where we want to prioritize.
So I think the first step is really managing cash flow. And in a situation like this, we really need to track expenses closely and create that bare bones budget to know exactly what's coming in and going out. We want to prioritize the essential, keeping a roof over your head, food on the table, utilities on, healthcare, gas in the car. But we want to cut non-essentials really to dial in that budget and hopefully get to a place where you have some little bit of margin or cushion and try to build a bit of an emergency fund as you're able to. I think in terms of checking for benefits eligibility, it would be important to check Medicaid if you qualify, Medicare savings programs.
Supplemental nutrition assistance programs, SNAP can be a great option. Even local senior aid programs for utility assistance and transportation. Let's tap into anything that's available to you that you qualify for. In terms of the You know, the debt, you know, I think the key is again, if we can right-size the budget, hopefully you can get back on track. And consider that.
Are you a homeowner or are you renting? What is your housing situation? homeowner with ten more years on the mortgage. All right, and what do you owe on that? About fifty thousand.
Okay. And what is the house worth, do you think? Uh They estimate, I think, around 150.
Okay. And um what is your age? I'm sixty-two.
Okay. Yeah, I mean, one other option is what's called essentially a reverse mortgage. It's a home equity line of credit. And excuse me, it's a Heckam home equity conversion mortgage, which is the term I was looking for. What that could do is essentially pay off your existing forward mortgage, except it would eliminate the payment.
Now, you might say, well, what happens then?
Well, you still own the home, and the balance would grow with interest and fees, but you own the home. And when you pass away or move, the home is sold, the loan is paid off, and the rest goes to your heirs or to charity, wherever you want. The reason I'm throwing it out there is if getting rid of that mortgage payment now could be the difference between you all being able to put food on the table and cover your obligations, it may be worth looking at. Because it would eliminate that mortgage payment, which is probably your biggest expense. Have you looked at something like that or considered it?
I've heard about it. I haven't had the time to look into it.
Okay. Well, essentially, what would happen is even if you didn't take a dollar more out of your home than what you already owe on your existing mortgage. The reverse mortgage could pay off that existing mortgage, which eliminates that payment. You'd still have to pay the taxes and the insurance, but you'd eliminate the principal and interest. The payment would become optional at that point.
If you want to pay on it, you can, but if you don't, you don't have to. And again, if you have a low interest rate mortgage, normally I would say let's hang on to that. But if you're in a situation where, you know, due to your health issues and limited income of only Social Security, you know, at this point, the key is trying to balance and right-size that budget and eliminating that mortgage payment may be the key to you being able to make ends meet.
So that's one option. The other option is, I'd be happy to have a certified Christian financial counselor meet with you and your wife and go over your budget. We'll cover the cost of it. It wouldn't cost you anything. And, you know, maybe they can give you a few other ideas on how to just manage your expenses, your debts, but also your income.
Would that be helpful to you? Yeah. That probably would be.
Okay. To my wife than it would be to me 'cause sh she can't use a budget worth a slip.
Okay. Well, if you're like me, you and I could probably learn a few things along the way as well.
So let's do this. I'm going to have you hang on the line. We're going to get your information. I'll get somebody in touch with you to give you a little bit more information on the reverse mortgage. I'll also connect you with one of our certified Christian financial counselors.
We're going to pick up the tab as long as you and your wife take advantage of it. And let's see if they can get you pointed in the right direction in order to balance that budget.
Okay, Joseph? Not a problem. I do appreciate you guys, and I thank the Lord for all the help I'm going to get.
Well, I appreciate you, my friend. Call anytime. If we can help you further, don't hesitate to reach out. Lord bless you. Let's see.
We're going to head to Mississippi and welcome Cheryl. Thank you for calling. Go ahead. Oh good. I'm 80 years old and I've been taking required.
minimum distributions out of my count out of my IRA for about approximately 10 years. And each year I do a qualified charitable distribution and give all of that to the church. But uh When I die, my kids are beneficiaries on the IRA.
Well, they have to continue those minimum requirement distributions. Yeah, so here's the way that works.
So when you're a non-spouse inheriting an IRA based on the Secure Act 2.0, they have to exhaust that IRA, meaning they have to pull all the money out within 10 years.
So by December 31st of the 10th year following the inheritance of the IRA.
Now, if the deceased, so in this case, that would be you, has started taking required minimums prior to death. Then the heirs, the non-spouse heirs, have to continue those required minimums each year. At a minimum, And then again, they have to exhaust the entire balance by the 10th year.
So each year they'd have to take the RMD and then by year 10 it would have to be completely withdrawn. Does that make sense? Yeah, it does.
Now they're beneficiaries. Is that the same thing as an inheritance? They're beneficiaries. Yeah, a beneficiary on an IRA receives what's called an inherited IRA.
So the portion that they're entitled to as beneficiaries would be transferred to a new inherited IRA in the beneficiary's name. And then at that point, they would have 10 years to pull all the money out. And then each year, they would have to take at least the scheduled required minimum since you had started that prior to death.
Okay. All right, very good. That answers my question. All right, very good. Thank you for your call today, sir.
God bless you. Big thanks to my team today: Josh, Jim, Omar, Tahira. If you want to support us, become a partner at faithfi.com/slash partner. We'll see you tomorrow. Faith in Finance is provided by FaithFi and listeners like you.
