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Now, let's dive into the podcast. Uh What if your work isn't just a job, but a part of God's bigger story for your life? Hi, I'm Rob West. For some, work is a source of stress, struggle, or simply something to endure. But what if we're seeing it all wrong?
What if God designed work to be a vital part of how we worship Him and serve others? Pastor Tom Nelson joins us today to talk about that, and then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. This is Faith and Finance, biblical wisdom for your financial decisions.
Well, our guest today is Tom Nelson. He's senior pastor of Christ Community Church, a multi-site congregation across Kansas City. He's also an award-winning author, and his latest revised edition is Why Your Work Matters: How God Uses Our Everyday Vocations to Transform Us, Our Neighbors, and the World. He's also founder and executive chairman at Made to Flourish, where they're focused on serving churches and pastors and other stakeholders to close the Sunday to Monday gap. Check it out at made2flourish.org.
And while you're there, subscribe to the incredible magazine, Common Good. Tom, so glad to have you with us today. Rob, it is a great delight to be with you and all who are joining us. I really appreciated the article you contributed to our latest issue of Faithful Steward magazine. And I think it really stood out.
I was so thrilled that we could bring a biblical worldview of work. And you open with a touching story about reading to your granddaughter. And I wanted to start there. Would you mind sharing that with us and then connecting that to our broader theme of work today? Yes, it's just a real delight.
I'm a new granddad. I have an adopted little girl named Natalie. And so, yeah, it was so fun. I was sitting there early on reading Hop on Pops, you know, a Dr. Seuss book.
It was just incredible. And I was just amazed again how she was so locked in onto that, the pictures and the story. And it just reminded me: you know, we know from the earliest days that we were drawn to stories, and neuroscience tells us, right, we are hardwired for stories. And stories, of course, frame our relationships, they animate our lives with wonder and memories and meaning and the metaphors that fuel our imaginations in those stories.
So they shape our daily lives. And of course, as we talk today, I'm reminded they deeply shape our daily work. What story we animate in our minds about work profoundly transforms us. Yes, and culture has a large influence in shaping that story we tell ourselves about our work, but it doesn't necessarily line up with God's word.
So what are some of those common false narratives, Tom, that people are buying into when it comes to their work? Yes, I think, first of all, it's important to understand that all of us. Uh, are locked into a story, and the question is: is it the great story of scripture? Uh, and I just want to encourage us that way. You know, we often say today, many of us, even Christians, that we shouldn't say this, thank God it's Friday.
Yeah, you know, and the weekend is wonderful, but that says something to us, doesn't it? We really, if we have the biblical story, we also say, Thank God it's Monday.
So I don't know how many of us have said, Thank God it's Monday. But thank God it's Friday, I think, echoes an incomplete narrative. It's a distorted narrative to see work starting in Genesis 3 as a curse. Rather than in Genesis 1 and 2, as a wonderful design.
So, work. For many of us, and again, there's hard parts of all of our work, whether work is paid or unpaid. And again, that's another conversation, but work is not meant to just be frustration or exhaustion or anxiety. And it's not meant only to be instrumental, productivity. And many times, when we have a false or distorted narrative of work, an unbiblical narrative of work, we see work as meaningless and frustration.
We almost wanna get rid of work. Work is an impediment to flourishing, and sometimes we only look to the weekend, which is not how we're going to flourish. Yeah.
Well, and unfortunately, we can get caught into this trap of saying, Well, you work in ministry, I work in secular work, and that's just not it. Because if we go back to that biblical design, there is no breakdown or difference between sacred and secular work. It's all sacred when it's done for the glory of God, right? Indeed, and I think it's one of the greatest perils of many of our Christian faiths. I mean, all of us struggle a bit with that.
But I would say, even in our English language, Rob, we have a dichotomy between worship and work. We have two different words, or work is just tied to paid work, which is important, but work biblically is contribution, not compensation.
So embedded in our conversations and our culture is a disconnect. Between our Sunday world and our Monday world. And sometimes as Christians, sometimes as pastors, I've written about my own male practice here. We don't emphasize the importance of a seamless gospel life that connects all of life together.
So we don't have a sacred and secular, we have a seamless calling to serve God in all that we do.
Well, we're going to try to help you understand that narrative today, rooted in God's word, as we give you a new story for your work. Tom Nelson's here today. He's founder and executive chairman of Made to Flourish. Check it out at made2flourish.org. More on biblical work as worship just around the corner.
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Start your journey today by going to kingdomadvisors.com slash get certified. Does your work need a new story? We're so glad you're with us today on Faith and Finance. I'm Rob West. With me today, my guest, Tom Nelson.
He's senior pastor of Christ Community Church. He's also the founder and executive chairman of Made to Flourish. You can check it out at madetoflourish.org. We're talking about the biblical understanding of work, work as worship, a good gift from God. We're made in the image of a worker.
We see God's work on display in creation as he creates out of nothing, creating with beauty. And then we get to continue that. And we certainly see that in the Garden of Eden. And you talked to us, Tom, before the break about story and how we've bought into a story that doesn't line up with scripture.
So I'd love for you to take us into what you call that four-chapter biblical story of work and unpack that a bit. I think for all of us, whether we've been around the Bible a long time or it's new to us, right, Rob, it can be confusing the way it's arranged. And I think it's easy to forget there's a big picture. In other words, the Bible is the greatest story ever told. It's a great story.
And one of the ways to keep track of where we are in the story is to think of it as a four-chapter flow. And I think this helps us understand reality, it helps us understand work. But the way we understand the Bible story as a whole, it begins in original creation, right? And then that creation is corrupted. It's called the fall.
But God doesn't leave it there. He wants to redeem it, obviously, in Jesus. Jesus is the main focus of the story, and he came to redeem all of our lives and the world. And then one day at the end, we see a new creation.
So the flow of the biblical story is original creation. The fall, that is sin, the destruction or disintegration is a better word. Of God's perfect design, but God redeems his beautiful creation ultimately in Jesus. And one day we will be a part of a new creation. And the way to remember this, I think, is three ways of thinking about it with four words.
Original creation is what ought to be. The fall and the sin is what is, right? We're in this world, but redemption is what can be. And new creation one day is what will be. And so, if you put work as a major thread in this story, work is all over the Bible from beginning to end.
Chapter one is God's design for work. It's work as it ought to be in creation. God designed us with work in mind. But again, we know and we feel it, don't we, Rob? Like in chapter two, the fall, work is corrupted.
And that is work as it is now. We feel it when we enter our Monday paid or unpaid world. But the good news of the gospel is not only that God wants to redeem our own lives, but he wants to redeem his creation, and work is part of that.
So, chapter three of redemption is work as it can be. And then the last chapter, which is focused on the end of the Bible, is looking forward to work as it will be one day in the new creation. We will not just sit on a cloud in heaven. We will work in beautiful ways as God originally designed in the Garden of Eden. I love that picture, and it is, in fact, so different than the way we approach our work so often.
I want to unpack each of these just a little bit more. Let's start with that first chapter. Tom, unpack a bit more what scripture reveals about God's original design for work before sin enters the world. It's a beautiful picture of an integral God in Genesis 1 and 2. Particularly, God is introduced fascinating.
The first verb in the Old Testament is: God is a worker. God is a worker. That's part of who He is, creative, and so forth. And we are made in His image, and we reflect that creativity. And work was designed to be a part of worship.
It wasn't meant to be split.
Now, we don't worship our work. That's idolatry. But our work is a vital part of reflecting God's image and being a worshipper. And of course, God also gave us a day of rest, didn't he? Yay, the Sabbath is a part of creation as well.
So the design is beautiful. It's integral. There's not a dichotomy or a break, a Sunday to Monday gap. All of life. It is to be lived before an audience of one and to do work for his glory.
Yeah, that's exactly right. But then we know sin enters the world. We see that as well. And God's good design then turns into toilsome labor. And I think that's where we often leave off this story.
What do we need to know about that?
Well, I think all of us, you know, hopefully all of our listeners and those who are engaging with us love the local church and are part of a Sunday morning worship gathering. But I think it's easy for us to leave that idea of worship and joy on Sunday. But God designed Monday to be this wonderful place. But when we enter that Monday place, whether it's paid or unpaid, whether retirees, whether we're a student, whether we're a stay-at-home mom, whether we are an executive. We enter a world that's broken, don't we?
People that are broken, bosses that are broken, work is broken, and we feel it deeply. But God wants to transform us and the work on Monday and not just on Sunday. Boy, you're exactly right. And that really brings us to this third chapter, Work as It Can Be. And it's about continuing God's work of redemption in the world through our work.
You know, we can bring the very presence of God with us into our work, can't we? We very much can. And isn't it interesting, Rob, that just take Moses, the burning bush of God's amazing presence did not happen in a temple. It didn't happen in Egypt. It happened while he was working.
So it's fascinating the burning bush occurs in the workplace. I would say when you look at the Bible, and there's so much here about redeeming work, work as it can be. But think about Jesus. I mean, isn't it stunning that the Son of God came, obviously, to save souls? But he spent the vast majority of his time On planet Earth, not preaching, but working with his hands as a carpenter.
And he must have had some hard customers, right? I mean, isn't that something? It really is. And that's not the picture we often focus on. We look at his ministry often beyond that, but that was very much a part of the bulk of his life.
Yeah, and he speaks about the workplace and the parables and so forth.
So, I mean, Jesus understands our work. Of course, he didn't sin, but he understands a broken world and he comes with us. In fact, One of the most transforming things for all of us, if we're a follower of Jesus, is the Holy Spirit indwells in us, right? We are temples of the Holy Spirit. And we bring his presence and that temple into our Monday world.
Not just Sunday. Again, whether we're changing diapers, whether we're in a volunteer line, whether we're a corporate. Leader, whatever we're called to do, paid or unpaid, we are bringing the temple of God in that workplace. That is profoundly transformational. There's no doubt that it is.
And that leads to something that we all long for, and that is after Jesus returns, a new heaven and a new earth. And can you imagine, Tom, being able to do the work we were created for fully without the effects of sin? That's going to be glorious. It is going to be glorious. And can we imagine?
What Eden was like. I mean, the presence of God, the presence of Perfect relationship with others, the joy of creativity, the beauty of the garden. I mean, it is amazing. And when we look at Revelation at the end, We get a glimpse, don't we? It's not a life on a cloud.
It is very much a resurrected body life, worshiping Jesus, of course, but doing remarkable things. And even the nations bring their goods into this beautiful garden city.
So, yes, we will be able to work and be creative and accomplish wonderful, joyful things in the presence of God with others without any sin. We can't imagine that. That is incredible. Tom, we've got just about 45 seconds left. I want you to finish today by just challenging, perhaps encouraging that person who's listening today, who's not seen this connection and believes that their work doesn't matter.
I just want to say, if, first of all, you were created with work in mind and intimacy with God. and embrace Jesus and become his apprentice. And you will learn how to live this life, a life of seamlessness. God made you with work in mind. with a relationship in mind.
And you're never alone in your work. I just want you to know that you are always with God there.
So maybe be encouraged and be encouraged in where God has specifically called you. You have a part in that story, God's story of work and worship that He described today. Tom, so appreciate your time. Thanks for being here. It's been a delight.
That's Tom Nelson. He's the author of Why Your Work Matters: How God Uses Our Everyday Vocations to Transform Us, Our Neighbors, and the World. Pick it up where you buy books and check out made2flourish.org.
Well, we're coming up on a break, but much more to come just around the corner. Call right now, 800-525-7000. I'm Rob West, and you're listening to Faith and Finance, biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. We'll be right back. Imagine having biblical financial wisdom delivered to your inbox every week, helping you integrate your faith and financial decisions for the glory of God.
At faithfy.com, you can join a community of over 70,000 people who are already receiving our weekly wisdom email, filled with articles, videos, podcasts, and exclusive offers on resources that will deepen your understanding of biblical stewardship. Start your journey today by creating your FaithFi account at faithfy.com. Just click sign up.
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Soundmindinvesting.org Great to have you with us today on Faith and Finance. We're taking your calls and questions in this segment. If you've got something on your mind in your financial life, perhaps you're struggling to get that credit score up, or maybe you're trying to pay off some debt. You're just wondering, should I snowball it? Should I consolidate it with a new loan?
What about debt management? What is that all about? You've got those questions, or maybe investing-related questions, or perhaps it's giving-related. You want to give wisely and minimize your tax burden. Call right now with any of those questions and more: 800-525-7000.
Again, that number 800-525-7000. We've got lines open. You can get right through at this moment. Let's go to Olga, North Carolina. How can I help?
I need to make about one hundred to one hundred fifty dollars a month cash For some of the things that I need to pay for. And I would like to invest maybe on some kind of dividend. that will pay me monthly or quarterly that will amount to that. And I have a little bit of cash saved up and I Just wanted your advice on that. Yeah, it's a great question.
What do you have that you could put to work to generate that $150 a month? I have about one hundred thirty thousand, but I don't want to spend all of it.
Okay, so how much would you want to invest? Let's say 30,000, 60,000, something like that.
Okay.
Well, let's take 60,000. It's a big gap. Yeah, I understand. You know, but that's not, it shouldn't be difficult because even at, you know, essentially at 3% a year or 3% yield, you know, you should be able to get $150,000 a month because 3% on $60,000 is $1,800 a year, you know, divided by $12,000 is $150,000.
So you wouldn't even have to invest that. You could just put that into a CD or high-yield savings and get more than 3% a year on $60,000. In fact, you could put the whole thing in.
So you said you have how much total? 130.
Okay, so if we took 130 and put it into high yield savings right now at, you know, let's call it four percent, I mean, that's fifty two hundred a year. FDIC insured means it's backed by the full faith and credit of the United States government, and you could pull $430 a month.
Okay.
Excellent.
Now where do I go to do that? Yeah, so what I would probably do, just given the amount that you have, uh I'd probably go to bankrate.com. That's a website, bankrate.com. When you g get there, click on high yield savings. And what you will see is, as of today, which banks have the highest yields?
And what you'll find is that you'll see them somewhere between three and a half. and four and a quarter per cent. With FDIC Insurance.
So, what you're going to do is you're going to open an online savings account with one of these banks with FDIC Insurance. You're going to link that electronically to your checking account where you Write checks from and manage your bills from, and then you can move money back and forth.
Now, as rates come down later this year and into next year, that rate is going to drop, but it's got to, you know, it's got to go all the way from four and a quarter down to three before, you know, and even then, you're only trying to generate $150 a month, you know, which you're not going to have any trouble for the next several years generating enough interest on $130,000 to get $150,000 a month. You're going to be growing that every month just based on the interest you're accruing. Keep it. I was um little nervous to put um money in the in the Bank that is online. You're okay with that, right?
This is fine. I am. And here's why. There's really no difference in terms of as long as you go with one that's highly rated, and you're going to see the five-star rating system there at bankright.com. You know, they comply with the.
The same bank standards. It's the same FDIC insurance. The only difference is they don't have a brick-and-mortar location for you to walk into. And instead, they take that savings and pass it on to you in the form of no fees and higher interest.
So you're probably doing your banking online with your brick-and-mortar. Bank that you do your checking account with.
So I really don't think there's any difference, and I would be completely comfortable with it. And the government's going to back it.
So I think you'd be in good shape. Olga, thanks for your call. Let's go to Fort Myers, WRMB. Scott, go ahead. Yes, Rob, I had a quick question for you.
I'm on SSDI, been on it for about five or six years. I've had a ton of health problems. My question is: can I fund an IRA or contribute to my IRA, even though I'm on SSDI? Uh do you have any earned income? Uh I have a part-time job.
I make around Fourteen hundred dollars a month, yes, sir. Yeah.
So if you you can use that earned income. In the sense that so the SSDI does not count as earned income, but wages from a part-time job do.
So if you earn at least $7,000 if you're under $50,000 or $8,000 if you're 50 or older, then you could use that to fund a Roth IRA up to the limit for the year.
Okay, I'm 52, so I could fund it up to 8,000, is that correct? Yes. The only question would just be: you know, and I assume you're tapped into this, but you. You need to make sure your part-time earnings don't jeopardize your SSDI eligibility with what they call substantial gainful activity. which I think is around fifteen hundred, sixteen hundred a month, something like that.
Yeah, yeah, it goes up a little bit every year. Yeah, I'm familiar with that. One other question: what I have. I've had my really good job and made good money. Financial advisor wanted me to open up a Not a raw.
I think he had me in an IRA. Then he had me open up a small raw. Raw fire because there's some different law. And I don't remember why he did that. Would you have a reason why?
Explain why he probably did that. Yeah, it's probably what's called a back door IRA. Do you remember that term? I think that does Ring a bell, yes, sir. Yeah.
So, what happens is when you earn over the limit, there's a cap. You know, in terms of your max income that you can afford to be able to be eligible to contribute to a Roth IRA.
So for this year, you know, that upper end cap is, I believe, you know, if you're married filing jointly, like $236,000. If you're single or head of household, $150,000. When you get over that, you're no longer eligible to fund a Roth IRA. But there is something that's in the tax code that's fully legitimate. It's a little bit of a loophole where you can fund, you can make a non-deductible IRA, traditional IRA contribution, and then you can convert it to a Roth.
And so it's essentially a backdoor way to get money into a Roth to grow tax-free, even though you don't meet the eligibility because you earn too much money. No, that's probably what it was. I was making really good money, and he did it as an advantage for me.
So, yeah. Hey, I really appreciate the clarification, Rob. Thanks a lot. All right. Absolutely, Scott.
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