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Um Do you work to live or live to work? For many, the answer is simple: I work to make a living. I'm Rob West. But what if there's more to work than just earning a paycheck? Could it be that work holds deeper meaning, something essential to who we are and how we're made?
David Bonson joins us today to offer a perspective on work you might not have considered. And then it's on to your calls at 800-525-7000. That's 800-525-7000. This is Faith in Finance, biblical wisdom for your financial journey. It's an absolute pleasure to welcome David Bonson to the program.
David is the founder, managing partner, and chief investment officer of the Bonson Group, a leading private wealth management firm. He's also the author of the newly released book, Full Time: Work and the Meaning of Life. David, it is a joy to have you with us.
Well, it's a pleasure to be with you. You open the book by pushing back on the common idea, both in our culture and even in the church, that our identity has nothing to do with work. You call that nonsense.
So why do you believe that mindset is so misguided?
Well, I'll start with one of the things I said in the book, which is not only that I believe just that, what you just stated, that our identity is connected to what we do, but I also stated that everybody believes that, that all I'm doing is stating something that some people might be uncomfortable repeating, but nobody functionally disagrees. You know, we do not think of a high-performing, high-achieving person who's making an impact in the lives of people, producing great things. And then we see somebody who's just laying on the couch playing video games all day and say, oh yeah, those two people are the same. we recognize that there's a functional difference in their contribution to society and to impacting the lives of others. And what I'm suggesting is that the reason we do that is not because we are treating people transactionally, it's because we're recognizing a fact of creation.
That God created us to be productive, to be active, to be useful, because he himself was a producing, creating, useful actor himself and made us in his image. And so that our work is part of our identity, but not the entirety of our identity strikes me as a totally non-controversial claim. Yeah.
Well, I think that's well said, and it makes complete sense. Obviously, what we're not saying is we're not calling for the fact that our identity in a particular job title is the key, but rather that being a worker is an integral part of what it means to be made in the image of God. And that's exactly what you just said. You also discuss integrating faith and work in the book rather than just balancing them.
So talk about what that integration looks like practically.
Well, it's a really important subject in so many elements of the Christian life. And yes, the way in which faith integrates with work is the subject at hand. But I would argue that when we talk about how Christians think about money, about education, about politics, about marriage, about raising children, all of those elements need to see our feelings, our opinions, our practices rooted to our faith, where too often what we do is we sprinkle faith on top.
So we build a foundation to these various things that is not necessarily rooted to a distinctly Christian worldview. And then we try to sprinkle some Bible verses on top and hope that it all pans out. That's what I'm hoping for: the faith and work movement, that there will be more of an effort to really connect these things to a creational philosophy of work that sees our Work as integral to the human person and integral to what God designed our lives to be. Yeah, and it has to do with this sacred secular divide, and that begins in the local church, doesn't it, with teaching in the pulpit. It does.
And so, if it begins there a lot, where sometimes the bad teaching might be going on, it's a wonderful opportunity to have it begin there to kind of fix it, to repair it, to take a step back a little, and for the pulpits to basically say, no, we do not believe that our congregants going to work every week are doing it just for the purpose of getting to the important stuff, either their families when they come home at night or the church they go to on Sunday, but that the work they're going to is itself important. That is so important. David Bonson here today. David is the author of the book Full Time: Work and the Meaning of Life. David is also the founder, managing partner, and chief investment officer of the Bonson Group.
More on work just around the corner. And then your questions at 800-525-7000. Don't go anywhere. We're just getting started. Managing money doesn't have to feel overwhelming or disconnected from your faith.
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Each account is insured up to $250,000. This institution is not federally insured. Work and the meaning of life. That's our topic today. Hi, I'm Rob West.
David Bonson is with me today. He is the founder, managing partner, and chief investment officer of the Bonson Group, a leading private wealth management firm. He's also the author of the book Full Time, Work and the Meaning of Life. Pick it up wherever you buy books. Before the break, David and I were talking about God's design for work and that secular work is just as sacred because we were created in the image of a worker and we work for productivity, to create human flourishing, to bless our neighbor.
We co-labor with God. He creates out of nothing and we create out of his creation, the latent potential that rests inside his creation to bless others. And we're talking about how our faith intersects with that. David, our culture often holds up rest, leisure, and even early retirement as the ultimate goal of life. What would you say is the relationship between work and rest?
Mm-hmm.
Well, I believe in what I call in the book a work rest paradigm, which is very different than work life balance. And I believe that one of the important things to understand theologically Is that God provided us a lot of specificity here around a blueprint? There's some specificity He didn't provide. You know, I try not to get into the details in the book on is it okay to go out to restaurants or this, or you know, what exactly people view their restful activities to be is going to vary a little, person to person. But the model of working for six days and resting for one was the model that God Himself did in creation.
Then, in Exodus 20, told us that we should do it. And then told us in that same commandment that the reason we should do it is because he did it. And so it really was laid out pretty clearly. And where I think some Christians go astray is the belief that the reason we work is so we can rest, where I think scripture is overwhelmingly clear that the reason we rest is so we can work. Yeah, let's talk then about how that relates to the modern cultural view of retirement, that we work throughout our lives so that we can get to this end point and cease all productive activity because perhaps we no longer offer anything of value to society.
What do you say about the cultural view of retirement?
Well, I think that the first thing I'll say is what I wrote a whole chapter about in the book that I'm very critical of a cultural view of retirement. One of the things I wish I had done more in the book to flesh out was being critical of the company's role in that. You know, the mindset of the workers that entered the workforce thinking that the purpose of work was to not do it anymore. And the mindset of so much in financial services that tries to ingrain in people that you're supposed to hit a certain number from which then you'll have enough resources to live forever without ever having to work again and that that's the goal of our lives. I'm critical of all of that for, I think, really defensible reasons.
But I don't think I spent enough time pointing out that the culture has gone astray too, where companies are trying to push people out.
Now, look, I'm all for making room for new up-and-comers. I certainly recognize certain blue-collar jobs and physical jobs. You know, I make the joke a lot when I speak about the book. Asking for 80-year-olds to run down that were police officers to run down the street chasing bad guys, you know. Sure.
There's a kind of stage of life and health dynamic. But the important part is this underlying idea that there's expertise and experience and wisdom in seniority. And for us to chase that out of the workforce is doing a lot of damage to various sectors of the economy, to specific businesses, and to individual human beings. That is well said. David, how do you distinguish between, let's say, a job, a career, and a calling?
Should every Christian seek to turn their job into a calling?
Well, it's a very good question because there's certain semantics that kind of go on sometimes where someone will say, are you saying I was called by God to, for example, be a financial advisor at Morgan Stanley? And then, you know, I happen to have been at that firm before and now run my own firm. And I would say, I don't think our calling is always about the venue. But do I believe that there is an element of our calling that is specific to the goods and services we're producing, to the actions that we are taking and exerting when we serve mankind by producing goods and services? Are we living out a calling?
My answer to that is yes, but I don't feel that, and that within our plan, within God's plan for our calling, there will be a context. We're embodied human beings.
So I have a venue in which at one stage of my life, I've been, may have been at one job. In one city and another stage of life in a different context or setting, those venues are part of God's plan. But the part of the calling that I think is, if I can use a big word here, ontological, is not the venue. It's what it is we're doing and that actual producing of goods and services that meet the needs of others. That I believe is a vital part of our calling.
Exactly. David, what would you then say to a young adult unsure about what they're supposed to do with their life? How do they pursue work with meaning and purpose?
Well, one of the things that's so challenging in that incredibly important question, because it comes up quite a bit, and that there's a difference between what I call the micro and the macro. The macro is what I have to answer with right now. At a high level, macro, everyone should view work as a forum for serving God, for serving others, for living out there the dignity of being made in the image of God. At a macro level, whether we are cleaning toilets at one stage of our life or whether we are a corner office lawyer, that this is a universal truth that there is a robust importance in work. But see, on a micro level, what it means to Timmy or Sally or an individual person who Who has a specific set of challenges, specific set of goals, a particular skill set or education or what have you?
I just think that we are in a challenging position to try to take all the macro principles and then look at the micro without understanding all the specific context. I do believe, though, that a lot of people's micro case, their specific local situation in their own life, would benefit from remembering the macro principles, that there's joy in work, that some jobs are a stepping stone to other opportunities, that even when it's a stepping stone, there is value in what we're doing. But we want to hold on to the big picture, that the journey is what is most important, not merely the destination. And I think that that line of thinking is what I would say to any young person trying to figure out what they want to do with their life. It is not true that the next Next day, you're supposed to have your dream job.
What you're supposed to have is an attitude that embraces whatever the next day brings you with a vision for where you're trying to bring things, and to do so with excellence, with gratitude, and with a service mindset. Those are the things I believe in. David, just 30 seconds left. Put a bow on this for our listening audience. What would you like them to leave with today?
That the message of society right now, that work is something you do just to have your needs met, is not the Christian message. The Christian message is that we work because God made us to be workers as He was. And in so doing, we do have our needs met, but we also are meeting the needs of others. And this is how we build society, build culture, build civilization, and ultimately build the kingdom of God. Wow, that is fascinating stuff.
We're going to have to leave it there for today. But, David, thanks for stopping by. Thanks so much for having me, Rob. Our guest today has been David Bonson, author of Full Time: Work and the Meaning of Life. His book offers a powerful perspective that will reshape the way you view work in the best possible way.
Pick it up where you buy books. Back with your questions after this: 800-525-7000. I'm Rob West, and you're listening to Faith and Finance biblical wisdom for your financial decisions. We'll be right back. As the leading advocate for the Christian financial industry, Kingdom Advisors serves the public by promoting the integration of a biblical worldview across every aspect of the financial services industry.
And we serve a growing network of thousands of Christian financial professionals, equipping and empowering them to carry biblical financial wisdom to their clients, peers, and community. For more information, visit kingdomadvisors.com. That's kingdomadvisors.com. We are grateful for support from Crossmark Global Investments. They are a faith-based firm with a goal of offering values-based investments to help align financial choices and faith, ensuring a portfolio that reflects what matters most.
Crossmark does this through investment solutions that span the capital market spectrum from large cap to small cap strategies, including equity, fixed income, and balance strategies. They are led by industry veteran Bob Dahl, CFA, a regular guest on the Faith and Finance program. More information is available at CrossmarkGlobal.com. Thanks for joining us today on Faith and Finance. What are you thinking about in your financial life?
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Let's go to Tennessee. Hi, Valerie. How can I help you? Hey there, how are y'all doing today? Doing great, thank you for your call.
Well, thank you for taking my call. I got a quick question. I retired about a month ago from, I was an insurance agent and I went to work for like a mom and pop restaurant, helping them out three days a week, about four and a half hours a day. just for some extra money on the side, but come to find out, I am the delivery person to deliver food to homes and businesses especially. And I'm needing, or they require me to use my own vehicle.
How can I do I can I claim that on income tax like gas, use of vehicle, and that amount of time? How does that work? Yeah, very good. It's a great question. Basically, if you're using your personal vehicle for your part-time job and you're an employee, you can't deduct those expenses on your federal taxes anymore.
But if you're self-employed, then you could. Are you, in fact, an independent contractor? No, I'm just helping them out, you know, just I a little part time thing three days a week, so I'm not.
Okay.
So it sounds like though you're not a W two employee. You would in fact be self employed, right, because they're just paying you with a ten ninety nine. That's a really good question, you know, because I just started that, like right after retirement. I do remember filling out the paperwork, and it did seem like it was a W-2, even though that I am being paid by the hour by working for them. But the tips are included in on that as well.
Okay.
Yeah, you would want to check on that because what I would probably want to ask for is that they treat you as an independent contractor if they're not, which basically means you're self-employed and then you can absolutely use your vehicle for tax deductions. Essentially, you would have either the standard mileage or the actual expense method.
So for 2025, the IRS standard rate is 70 cents per business mile driven.
So you just multiply your business miles, and you're going to want to document this so you can defend it if you were ever questioned. You'd multiply your business miles by 70 cents and then report that on Schedule C plus any parking and tolls. And then you would use the standard method for the first year, you deduct mileage for that vehicle. In later years, you could choose the actual costs if that method is more beneficial. That's more complex, but it involves you trying.
Tracking the business portion of fuel and insurance and maintenance and depreciation and registration and tires and inspections, all of it.
So, let's say you use your car, you know, you can justify 30% or 40% of what you drive on an annual basis is for business. Then, you could actually, you know, use the actual costs. And it's often worth comparing that against the standard rate to see which gives you the higher deduction. You also, you know, have the other common deductible expenses: parking and tolls, and phone and a data plan, if it's for business use, you know, those types of things.
So, I would just say keep good records, but the next step for you is to go back to your part-time employer and see if you're W-2, which unfortunately prohibits you from doing that, or if you're an independent contractor, which would give you these options. Valerie, I hope that helps you. Thanks for your call. Let's tackle an email. This comes to us from Stephen, and he writes: Our son is struggling.
To pay the bills for his business, and he's taken out several payday loans to make ends meet. He needs to connect with someone who can give him some business financial guidance or possibly look into debt consolidation. Do you have any suggestions? And I would say, yes, we absolutely need to get him to break that cycle of that payday loan borrowing. I would say if he has credit card debt, a great place to start would be with Christian Credit Counselors.
Our friends there at CCC have worked with hundreds, if not thousands, of our listeners. They could get him on a spending plan, which is going to be key to breaking this cycle of the payday loan borrowing. We need to get him moving toward paying this debt off once and for all. And they can do that through reduced interest rates and a level monthly payment. You know, these payday loans, while often marketed as a quick solution for an immediate financial need, have major problems, starting with the interest rates.
I mean, understand that a payday Day loan typically carries with it an annual percentage rate if you run it out over a year, often exceeding 400%. I mean, these are just atrocious. You've got that on top of a cycle of debt.
So, the structure of the payday loans usually leads to a cycle where borrowers can't afford to pay off the loan without taking another. And this means you pay far more in fees than the original amount borrowed on top of this astronomical interest rate.
So, you end up getting trapped in debt. Put that on top of predatory lending practices.
So, many of these payday loan lenders operate with practices that are considered predatory. They're targeting individuals who are in a desperate financial situation. Often, this includes not properly assessing their ability to repay. It could lead to a loan that borrowers can't realistically pay back. It has major impact on their credit.
It gets them into overdraft and other bank fees. You've got that on top of the fact that there's significant emotional and psychological stress here. And then there's just the community impact. You know, on a broader scale, the prevalence of payday loan outlets in lower-income neighborhoods really often exacerbates the poverty as these communities become disproportionately reliant on these high-cost credit options, draining money that could be used for community development or personal savings.
So it's really just the scourge, I think, of many of these communities where they exist. I would stay far from them and let's look for healthy ways to lean into financial challenges, get assistance, perhaps with the body of Christ, somebody who can come alongside you to provide some financial assistance, using an organization like Christian Credit Counselors to actually put you on a plan to pay the debt off once and for all, not just get you. Trapped in a cycle of debt is obviously key.
So, Stephen, I know that's a long answer to a short question, but hopefully, that helps you and gives you some further incentive to get your son out of this cycle once and for all. Thanks for writing to us. By the way, if you have a question you'd like to send along in addition to calling, just send that to askrob at faithvi.com.
Well, big thanks to my team today. I certainly couldn't do this without Sandy and Devin and Jim and everybody here at FaithFi. Have a great day. Come back and join us tomorrow. We'll see you then.
Bye-bye. Faith in Finance is provided by FaithFi and listeners like you.
