Should Christians Be Involved In Politics? - Part 2

Blessings to Israel presents Discerning the Times, a program committed to encouraging you to view current events through the lens of the Bible.

Now, in honor of the one and only true God, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, please join us for today's program. You say, well now Frank, you're overstating the case because you know Jesus was not involved in politics. Was he? Yeah, he was.

Often overlooked. Who did Jesus go after the most in the New Testament? Pharisees. And who were the Pharisees? The Pharisees were the religious, and get this, political leaders of Israel. And Jesus went after these people. In fact, if you don't think Jesus was involved in politics, and you think Jesus was kind of a soft soap guy who never went after anyone, you have not read Matthew chapter 23. Because what does Jesus say in Matthew chapter 23 talking to the Pharisees? Here's what he says, Woe to you teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites, you give a tenth of your spices, mint, dill, and cumin, but you have neglected the more important matters of the law, justice, mercy, and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter without neglecting the former, you blind guides, you strain out a net but swallow a camel. What sweet and gentle Jesus said this?

He was right in your face saying this is wrong and you need to change. Jesus was tough. Don't buy into the politically correct, feminized Jesus.

Jesus stood for the truth, and he stood for the truth no matter where the truth was. Now notice you have neglected the more important matters of the law. What's he saying there? He's saying that there's a hierarchy, that some things are more important than others. Justice, mercy, faithfulness are more important than tithing your spices, which is what they were doing.

They're giving a tenth of all their spices, but they're neglecting the bigger issues. Welcome to the program. My name is Brian Thomas. So glad to be with you once again this week. And before we get into the topic, I want to remind you that your eternal state is far more important than your current state. So I encourage you today, if you have not received Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, do so today.

He's already paid the price for sins, but you have to accept it and you can inherit eternal life. So once again, we are continuing this week, our discussion on should Christians be involved in politics? And we are listening to Dr. Frank Turek. As you heard in that opening clip to complement our discussion, which I'm going to bring you now, my co-host, Dr. Bruce Logan, and we're going to continue to look at this very vital topic of again, should Christians be involved in politics?

So, Doc, glad to be with you once again this week. So glad to be here and I'm really enjoying this topic. Yeah, it's a very important topic. It's one that once again, it stemmed out of a Bible study that I lead in which there was a person there that was concerned that, well, we are discussing politics too much. And that as Christians, we need to steer clear of that type of thing. But as we stated last week, politics is throughout the Bible. The Bible just does not use the word politics, but when it speaks of kings and governors, all of those, it is speaking to politics. And as we heard from Dr. Frank Turek, the Pharisees and Sadducees, those were religious and political leaders and Jesus hammered them. I mean, he would come down on them about things because although Israel was under Roman rule, their immediate governing body was the Sanhedrin with the two primary groups being Pharisees and Sadducees.

So it was sort of like today our Congress is comprised primarily of Democrats and Republicans. So in other words, Doc, the Democrats and Republicans of our present day, there are present day versions of Pharisees and Sadducees. And again, look at how how Jesus spoke of them. So what are your thoughts?

I totally agree. And the fact of the matter is that one of the things that was always amazing to me when speaking about the scribes and the Pharisees and the interactions and the confrontations that Christ had with those particular individuals is a stark reminder to us how we and our day as believers need to have a biblical worldview. Because as you have been emphasizing, the scribes and the Pharisees were political leaders, but they were also, I mean, they were religious leaders, but they were also political leaders at the same time. And one of the most interesting things that I find when I read the scriptures is the account when Jesus was confronting them and they came to him and asked him for a sign. And he responded by saying, you come for a sign, but you are able to discern when to plow, when to plant and when to harvest.

But you're unable to discern the signs of the time. And the amazing thing about it is that these individuals were the doctors of the law who, if anybody should have been able to discern, it should have been them. They literally had the individual that the prophets had predicted standing right before them that they were arguing with and trying to dispute with who had entered into Jerusalem on the, I believe, the very day that the 70 weeks of Daniel prophecy had predicted. If anybody should have been discerning, it should have been them, but they were completely oblivious. And their obliviousness no doubt impacted so many of their followers because the one scripture says that the blind follow the blind, they both will fall into the ditch. And this is the reason why as believers, especially if we are leaders, that we're going to be basically without excuse because we have to really be informed and engaged in this idea of politics and how the decisions and the legislation that our representatives enact impacts every one of us.

You're exactly right. And and as you said, yeah, the Pharisees and Sadducees, they were makers of the law. We tend not to really think about that of them. But in the same way today in our Congress, and we've seen the the clips of them out having debates on the House floor and in the Senate, and they're there talking about should a man be allowed to use a women's bathroom or can a man change himself into a woman?

You know, they're actually debating these kind of things in passing laws on it. And it was the same way during the days of the Pharisees and Sadducees. They they sat around and debated laws as to what could be done on the Sabbath and what should not be done. And so we see the same kind of thing happening. And just like in their day when Jesus called them hypocrites, he said, you can discern the weather, but you can't discern the signs of the times.

And we have it today where very book intelligent, smart people can can tell you a lot about things, but yet they're not able to discern just basic common sense morals. And with all of that said, I think, to be honest, Doc, as we go into the future, as more and more things happen, as we are getting closer to the return of Christ with things being fulfilled, I actually think as believers, we probably should be putting even more attention on politics because these things are really ramping up. I was listening to Mark Hitchcock earlier and he was just saying how right now there's just this convergence of fulfillment of prophecies. And he says is accelerating where you see all these things happening closer and closer together and faster. And that is what Jesus talked about when he was saying the birth pains. That's how he described it. As we get closer to his return, it would be like contractions of a woman who is having birth pains and that they would get closer and closer together and more intense. I agree with that wholeheartedly.

As a matter of fact, when you talk about that and I was a great way to describe it as well. A convergence of biblical prophecy fulfillment. And I think we spoke about this on a previous program where we mentioned the fact that there's never been a time where the infrastructure for the fulfillment of Book of Revelation prophecies or end-time prophecies, the infrastructure has never been in place to the degree that it is now for those end-time events to be fulfilled. For example, the technology that we have available where literally every eye will be able to see him.

Where literally the gospel can go at the click of a finger to the four corners of the earth. Never before have we had that ability. The fact that the rise of secularism in society is a major reason why we're getting close to that time. All of this is happening all at the same time. And then the state of world economies.

Think about that. Because when the Antichrist comes to power, he's going to be not only a political leader, but he's going to be over the world economy. Because the world is heading toward a one-world government.

We spoke about it on a previous episode about putting implants under the skin. And the technology is now available for that to occur. And like you said, there's never been a time where all of these end-time fulfillments, the end-time prophecies, or the infrastructure has been in place all at one time. And it's really something to sit back and watch.

It's really incredible. Because we see new aspects of it forming every day. The movement toward globalism, the movement toward one-world government, the attacks on the church, World Economic Forum conference that they recently just had. All of the commentators, all of the speakers, all of the world leaders were promoting this idea of a one-world economy.

And so all of this stuff is happening right in front of us. And it is political leaders who are promoting these ideas. It's political leaders that we elect who was over at the World Economic Forum advocating for some of these same ideas.

And if we are not conscientious and discerning as believers, we are basically accelerating this advancement of spirit of Antichrist that's rising in the world. That's what's going on in our country. Do you know we have entire political parties and politicians who are more concerned with what light bulbs we use while they put no restrictions on abortion? Is that ludicrous or what?

We've got people telling us what light bulbs to use but they won't say don't kill your babies. Are they neglecting the more important matters of the law? Exactly. Now here's why the separation of church and state is not the issue.

The issue, and if there's one thing you get out of this tonight, just get this one idea down. Because this is what confuses everybody. The distinction between religion and morality. There's a difference between religion and morality.

Broadly speaking here, a broadly defined religion has to do with our duty to God but morality has to do with our duty to one another. We are not telling people that they have to worship or they have to go to a church or be a member of a church or follow certain rights and rituals when we say that you ought not kill an unborn child. That's not imposing religion. Nobody I know, well there are a few crazies out there, but very few people I know on say the conservative side of things are trying to legislate religion.

Nobody's trying to say you need to be a member of a church, you need to go on Sunday, you need to do this, you need to do that. That's not what we're saying. But we are telling one another how to treat one another and that's legislating morality and all laws legislate morality. How many times have you heard you can't legislate morality? Think about it, that's what all laws do.

Every law declares one behavior's right and the opposite behavior's wrong. The only question is whose morality will we legislate? Everybody's trying to legislate morality, the only question is whose morality?

Well, whose morality should we legislate? Now this is in the womb if you can see that, this is in the womb at 11 weeks. Question, is that animal, mineral, vegetable, or human? Now that's human.

We were all there. When we say you ought not kill human beings, you don't need the Bible to know that. It's consistent with the Bible, but you don't need the Bible to know that. Now, do you notice that in the abortion debate both sides are trying to legislate morality and both sides are trying to impose? You say, oh no, no, it's just the pro-life people, they want to impose morality. They want to impose their morality. No, they don't want to impose their morality. I don't think we ought to impose my morality. I don't think we ought to impose your morality. I think we ought to impose the morality. If you're just now joining us, that is the voice of Dr. Frank Turek and he is discussing the topic of should Christians be involved in politics? As we're going through this, I just think about the impact of politics because politics determines whether unborn babies live or are murdered. It is politics that determines whether blacks are slaves or free in our nation. That is something that is very important that we should be concerned about.

Politics determines that women are now allowed to vote in our nation. You are tuned into Discerning the Times. If you believe in what we stand for, would you consider partnering with us? Our partners program is based on Genesis 12-3. I will bless those who bless you for a recurring donation of $12.03 per month. You can help us share the message of Discerning the Times as we await our Lord's return to Israel.

For more information, please visit our website, BlessingsToIsrael.com or write to us at Blessings to Israel, Keobach 266, Knightdale, North Carolina 27545. Now, let's return to the conclusion of today's program. Now don't get me wrong folks, when it comes to this program, when it comes to a Bible study, I never want to make it the Sean Hannity or the Tucker Carlson show.

That is not what we're trying to do. But we must include politics if we want to be well informed disciples of Christ. And we strive to base things around scriptures. Again, that is having a biblical worldview. And one of the things that is disturbing to me, we saw at the end of last year, Dr. Logan, is in the way in which so many Christians rallied behind the candidate who confesses to being in favor of things like abortion and LGBTQ in Raphael Warnock. But then they bashed the candidate who was in favor of God's ways on those same issues in Herschel Walker. And that happened because there are a lot of people today that profess to be Christians, but they do not have a biblical worldview. And there was a Barnard survey that I recently heard that said only 6% of Christians in America have a biblical worldview.

So what are your thoughts? Well, again, as believers, I believe it's a part of our stewardship to have a biblical worldview when we go to the voting booth. As a matter of fact, one of the things I find pretty troubling is that every election season that comes around, we have advocates who oftentimes will get up in church and encourage people to vote. You've got to vote. You've got to exercise your right to vote. And they're trying to block your right to vote.

But they never tell you who, what, for, or why. They never talk about an issue, never talk about specific issues. Basically, it's an assumption that you're going to go out or that particular audience is going to vote for a particular party and never really explain and talk about what we should be voting for or what we should be voting against. And that all falls back on what you were saying, attaching a biblical worldview to the issues. And I always encourage people, whenever I would have personal conversations along this topic, is that we should forget about this idea of voting for our particular or favorite pet party and understand our favorite pet individual and understand the issue. So I usually go through issue by issue by issue by issue by issue and vote accordingly based upon how candidates are expressing their opinions on the issue through the lens of a biblical worldview. And so, for an example, I had a friend ask me not long ago when he asked me what was my political position, and I believe I said I have a biblical worldview, and for the most part, I lean toward the conservative stance on our modern political issues. And he asked me, what do I mean by conservative? And basically, to put in a long story short, what we mean by conservative is that we want to conserve those principles that have been proven through history and through time, has been impactful and effective. Yeah, well said, well said, because you're right, there's no perfect candidate. We try to get as close to the Bible as we can, but there won't be a perfect candidate, not until Jesus Christ comes back to rule and reign.

And that is what we look forward to. The fact that murder was wrong. I mean, how many times have you heard this? Don't impose your morals on me. How would you respond to that? Well, first of all, why would that be wrong? Are you imposing your morals on me by saying I can't impose my morals on you? You see, you're imposing your morals on me right now by saying I ought not do that.

Yeah, right. But I would say these aren't my morals. I didn't make up the fact that murder is wrong. I didn't make up the fact that abortion is wrong.

I didn't make up the fact that men were made for women and women were made for men. These laws convict me too. I'm not saying impose your morality or my morality.

I'm saying impose the morality. The one that Thomas Jefferson said was what? Self-evident. We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men were created equal and endowed by their creator with certain unalienable rights, among them life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Why did he say life first? Because the right to life is the right to all other rights.

If you don't have life, you don't have anything. Yeah, folks, that is what we must do. We must vote the morality, and the morality is what comes from God. There is no other source. Let's listen now as Frank Turek talks about the presidential candidates.

Again, this is from 10 years ago, so this was back in 2012, but it's still relevant to the day that we live in. Let's take a look at the two major candidates for the United States presidency. And everything I'm about to tell you here, you can get online from a nonpartisan website. It's called ontheissues.org, I think it is. In fact, I'm going to put the website up here a little bit later.

You can get this from the website. This is nonpartisan. I'm just going to tell you where these people stand, okay?

And then you decide how you're going to vote. We'll look at Obama and Biden first on the issue of life. Not only is President Obama and Vice President Biden pro-abortion, they want taxpayers to pay for abortion.

That is in the Democratic platform. How about marriage? As you know, President Obama came out in May of 2012 and said he's for same-sex marriage. Now this is genderless marriage. Some of you have a book called Correct, Not Politically Correct, How Same-Sex Marriage Hurts Everyone.

I don't have time to get into all the moving parts of this issue, but let me just say this. This is not really same-sex marriage, it's genderless marriage. Because people don't understand, where same-sex marriage is put into place, there are not two kinds of marriage. There's not traditional or natural marriage and same-sex marriage. Marriage as an institution becomes genderless.

If you go to Massachusetts now and apply for a marriage license, it doesn't say husband and wife, it says partner A, partner B. So marriage as an institution basically divorces itself from children. It says that marriage is put into place by the government to recognize sexual relationships. News flash, that's not why the government recognizes marriage or why the government promotes marriage. The government promotes marriage primarily for the procreation and nurturing of the next generation. It doesn't do it to recognize that two people love one another. In fact, around the world, most marriages are arranged, have nothing to do with romantic love.

It has to do with the perpetuation and stabilization of society. Now, as you can read in the book, by saying that heterosexual and homosexual relationships are the same, what you're saying now is marriage has nothing to do with children, it's just about coupling. When that happens, it leads to all sorts of perverse outcomes. People having children but not getting married. And illegitimacy, as you know, is a disaster.

So, Doc, that's the very thing you were talking about. Frank Turek is just laying out the candidates, what they stand for, and then what the Bible says. But it seems as though a lot of Christians do not take that approach when it comes to voting. They just decide they're going to vote for their favorite party regardless of what the candidate stands for. Yeah, I kind of like use the term by default. In other words, a lot of people have their default setting, that they just go into the voting booth.

And as a matter of fact, I just want to make a confession, just by way of full disclosure. When I first got a voting age, before I knew any better, I kind of coined the phrase, I was a D-puncher. And every time I went into the voting booth, I mean, I never even thought, never even gave it any type of consideration.

I just punched a D. I looked for all the candidates with a D in front of it. Back then, they had those punch cards, and I would just punch the D, D, D, D, D, D, D, D. And then all of a sudden, I got saved, and I started studying the Bible, and then I started paying attention to what politicians were actually saying. And one of the things that stood out to me, and I'll never forget this, is that somebody was talking about how it had to do with this idea of churches, or no, it had a lot to do with the idea of preaching or teaching the Bible in public school.

That's what it was, because it was a taxpayer institution. And so they were saying that, you know, the First Amendment says that we can't, you know, it's wrong, you can't establish a religion, right? So I started thinking to myself, I wasn't actually looking up the First Amendment, and I started thinking to myself, after I was reading the First Amendment, that how is teaching the Bible in public school, especially if you do it as an elective, how is that starting a religion?

I read the First Amendment, and here's what it says, Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment, an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof, or abridging the freedom of speech. So I started asking people, you know, some of my colleagues and friends, because I'm supposed to do this discovery mode, trying to get my mind renewed. And so I would ask questions like, how is teaching Genesis in public school establishing a religion?

How is that? I mean, it doesn't make any sense. And then, how are you not denying the First Amendment by prohibiting my free exercise to be able to teach Genesis in public school? And so that's when my, and no one could answer these questions, like literally no one, like none of my leaders, I mean literally no one. And so that's when I began this process of discovery on the issue, and I said, well, if they're misrepresenting this, what else could they possibly be misrepresenting? And so in applying, and this all kind of merged together, because my knowledge of the Bible was starting to grow, and my inquisitivity in terms of comparing what I'm reading in the Bible, what I'm hearing from politicians, you know, that began to grow, and that began to really formulate a biblical worldview.

And if you don't pay attention, if you don't engage with the words that they are saying, because you can take one word in a sentence out of context, and that will completely change the meaning of the sentence. And that's one of the things that we kind of need to understand as we try and develop our level of discernment as believers. And again, as we've been saying, that regardless, politics affects everything and everybody. All right, well, great, great note to wrap us up on. Always good to talk with you, Doc, and look forward to being back with you next week as we continue in our question and answer series. Amen, God bless you.

All right, and to our listeners, thanks once again for tuning in with us. As I said previously, when it comes to topics of this nature, the day is going to come and we all will have to stand before Christ and give an account of what we did with what he gave us. And when I stand before him, I want to hear him say, well done, good and faithful servant, not be disappointed in me for not giving the full counsel of his word. And so that is my encouragement to all of you out there today. Don't shy away, don't cower in the times that we're living in from truly embracing the full counsel of God's word in all areas of our lives. So please come back and join us again next week as we continue to encourage you to discern the times by viewing life through the window of the Bible. Until then, remember to pray for the peace of Jerusalem. Bless God's great nation of Israel until the only wise God be glory through Jesus Christ forever.

Amen. Thank you for tuning in to Discerning the Times. Please come back and join us next week as we continue to encourage you to view current events through the lens of the Bible. Until next time, remember to pray for the peace of Jerusalem. Bless God's great nation of Israel and seek first the kingdom of God. Discerning the Times is presented by Blessings to Israel.