It's time for the Line of Fire with your host, biblical scholar and cultural commentator, Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity. Call 866-34-TRUTH to get on the Line of Fire. And now, here's your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks for listening this Truth Network Podcast. Up next, your chosen Truth Network Podcast is playing now. Your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity. Call 866-34-TRUTH to get on the Line of Fire.
If you would not do that in good conscience before God, you can interact 866-34-TRUTH. If it's something we've been talking about in recent days, you want to take issue with, you want to probe a little further, you get to call in, again, 866-34-87884. Maybe, maybe later in the show, I'll also get to just some random questions because I took questions that were posted on Friday. I did not answer phones because here's the schedule. Wednesday, I flew to Denver last week, preached in Denver Wednesday night and stayed in Denver Thursday, recorded the radio show on Thursday. Then Friday, recorded the radio show and then flew to Pasco, Washington. Then I spoke in Pasco Saturday morning and literally, we ended a little afternoon, literally walked through the crowd, thousands of people that were there, walked through the crowd to get to the airport to fly to San Francisco and then have a one hour drive from there to Danville.
And then pretty much, I would get out of the car, drop my stuff off at the hotel, got straight out from there and went straight to the meeting and then taught Saturday night, then twice Sunday morning and then flew home. Yesterday, got home, oh, 930, 10 at night and spent the last four and a half hours sitting in this very chair dialoguing with my colleague, Rabbi Yisrael Blumenthal, brilliant rabbi, learned rabbi, counter missionary. We have exchanged dialogue, hundreds and hundreds of pages and he was able to come into North Carolina to continue our dialogue. So it wasn't a debate, but it was hours and hours in dialogue, which we plan to post online in the coming days. And God willing to continue that dialogue next time I'll travel to where he is and continue it.
So literally, they literally just set my computer back up. They just walked out of the office literally seven minutes ago and we got all set. So I am thrilled to be back live with you and so thrilled I could have that fruitful dialogue with Rabbi Blumenthal. Those who prayed for us. Thank you.
We had wonderful, wonderful meetings in Denver, in Washington, in California. So thank you for your prayers. Politics is important. Your vote is important, but politics is not the gospel.
I want to read something to you that David Kupelian, author and columnist, wrote. This was in 2020 and he was explaining why he differed with Pastor John Piper. John Piper, Pastor John, had said that you can't vote for Democrats because they're pro-abortion policies and other things, but you can't vote for Trump either. He's a boastful, haughty, immoral person, etc.
So David Kupelian was replying and he made this statement. He said, does the good pastor not realize that when you vote for a president, you are not choosing only one leader and his policy agenda, but a multitude of leaders and policies in every area of life and therefore a whole future for the country, as Franklin Graham put it. Most prominently, you are choosing a vice president who may become president, as this happened 14 times in U.S. history. You're also choosing cabinet and department heads, and you are choosing federal judges, including Supreme Court justices with lifetime tenure, who will decide issues of stupendous importance that affect every American. And you are choosing thousands of other people, about 4,000 federal government appointees in all, who will profoundly shape the nation in which your children and grandchildren will live for a long, long time, whether for good or for ill. So he's saying, hey, politics, who you vote for, is important.
It's very important. But politics is not the gospel. Politics should not have the emphasis that the gospel has. Politics should not have our heart and passion the way the gospel does. And what the gospel can do, politics cannot possibly do. Let me say it again. What the gospel can do, politics cannot do. I posted a question on X, formerly Twitter, and on Facebook as well, and I said, hey, what comes to mind? What comes to mind when I ask you what can the gospel do that politics cannot do?
So I'm just going to read the comments as they're up on my screen. Jesse, change lives, soften hearts, repenting of dead works, a love for Jesus, determination to live a holy life. Politics cannot do any of that. Audrey, it can change hearts and a life's trajectory.
Dawn, politics changes things from the outside in, not unimportant but easily altered in the next administration. Jesus and the gospel change things from the inside out, deeper, lasting, getting to the heart, eternally significant. David, communicate truth.
Pilgrim Saint, receiving the gospel of the kingdom is to joyfully submit oneself to Christ as God and king of all heaven and earth and under the earth. This imparts the Holy Spirit which produces eternal transformation of the inward parts of the individual spirit, soul, heart, mind, will. Obviously, politics cannot do that. Qadosh Ministries, the gospel can change the hearts of men and return them to God.
Politics can only attempt at changing minds regarding worldly things and often fail at even that. The gospel is incomparably superior in its ability to affect mankind for good. Iconoclast, connect you to the Father.
Let's see, Talumah, save souls and save nations. David, the gospel can set people free from PTSD like it did with me. The gospel can make us quite literally new people. The gospel brings us from death to life with Jesus.
Bible growth guy, God through his gospel gives us information on how to live out our lives. BBC apologetics, heal hearts and minds. G. Scott, inspire and empower righteousness. The gospel gives eyes to see and ears to hear whereas politics often blinds the eyes and stops the ears. The gospel is faith in Jesus Christ whereas politics is faith in Barabbas. The gospel heals families and brings love, forgiveness and reconciliation whereas politics often divides families even further and cultivates disdain, separation and unforgiveness. The gospel makes one right with God whereas politics makes one right with man.
The gospel is the resurrected promised Christ who has been given all authority in heaven and on earth. He sets up kings and takes them down. He changes and appoints the times and seasons whereas politics is self-righteousness, the illusion of choice and the elevation of man. These are just my off-the-cuff thoughts. I love you and your ministry, Dr. Brown.
Great off-the-cuff quotes. Ben, again what does the gospel do that politics cannot do? Hope, transformation, strength, free your soul.
Rick, the power of God unto salvation. Sarah, set you free. Kay, bring peace to the heart. Save our souls, shed his love abroad in our hearts.
Salon news, win. I guess truly ultimately win. Kathy, save your soul, give eternal life, create real joy and peace that is beyond comprehension. Martin, give peace of mind. The apologist, I can listen to a politician and walk away feeling dirty. I can listen to the gospels and walk away feeling clean. Anthony, save America.
America dies without Christianity. Agnes, the story of Zacchaeus, a tax collector. After having lunch with Jesus, Zacchaeus decided to give up his corrupt ways, return the money he cheated from taxpayers and share his fortune with the poor. The gospel of Jesus Christ exercised a strong influence over his new partner resulting in a change in the ways that Zacchaeus managed his job, career and finances.
Let's see, speak freely. Politics is akin to the law which has no power to convert nor to perfect since the law is not made for a righteous person but for the lawless and subordinate, for the ungodly and for sinners. The gospel offers a new spirit and a new heart that gives us an indwelling government grounded in the love and goodness of God whereby Jesus has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
Clay, it can heal your mental illness, not saying this to the meds, everyone is different, by reminding you of who you are in Christ, your real identity. Mimeyard, it can give hope, it can bring peace, it can bolster courage, it can give solid guidelines on how to live. Ryan, the gospel grows stronger the more it is persecuted.
Anthony, genuinely change a person's heart. You can maybe convince a person of a right, wrong political view but the power of the gospel has such a profound impact on a person that is beyond what I see in politics. Liam, the gospel can take pressure off of us allowing us to be outcome independent. We are inspired to thankfulness and service rather than results which we trust the Lord for.
Engagement with politics generally drives us to be concerned with and emotional about winning and outcomes. Seeking peace, save, give hope and steadiness no matter what happens in geopolitics. Resurrect us from the dead, come as return, regenerate our hearts and minds, grow us in love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Forgive and heal us. Selenia, the gospel can cause people to become loyal to Christ instead of other loves of the world enslaving their soul.
God's underground movement reconciled people back to God which includes tearing down the wall of hostility and uniting a people of all kinds through the one man, Jesus Christ, Adam. The gospel makes it possible to live out the new covenant given in the Sermon on the Mount, turning the other cheek, blessing those who curse you, etc. Also embracing the blessed of those whose statements of Jesus.
Politics don't really allow for this. M.J. Piazza, besides saving us, the gospel can give us true peace and joy. It is the only thing that makes everyone equal as we all equally need a savior. The warrior monk, the gospel changes people for the good by conforming them to the image of Christ. Politics has no power to change anyone for the better but can change people terribly for the worse when it is used as a replacement for faith in Christ.
This is what the left does. Bob, the gospel can provide peace. Politics anything but. K. Elam, instead of the here and now focus of politics, the gospel points us to our eternal home and life with Christ Jesus our king purchased by his perfect sacrifice. Crystal, give you peace and hope. The gospel brings us to God, 1 Peter 3. Mark, save souls, gives real hope for eternity, gives comfort in times of trouble.
Peg, save your soul, bring comfort, give assurance. Pam, our church which isn't large, has spoke from a dozen nations from four continents. We are enriched by each other's cultures while Jesus is central to us all.
Unity and diversity, a lesson for multiculturalism. BTO, politics is built upon change. The gospel is built upon the rock. John, change hearts. I'm part of a pregnancy center in New York.
It's a hard ministry. Life has been so devalued in our society and it's really negatively impacted how our young people think. Babies have become disposable. No amount of legislation or political activity will reverse this. Only the Holy Spirit can and he is. We're seeing a change.
It's slow but it's discernible. Life is winning. Love's flame. The gospel, if believe, will reconcile you to God. Bill Mann, save. Ryan, bring peace to your conscience at last. BXA, save a man's soul. Forgive them of their sin. Make them a new creation. And lastly, give them a new eternal majesty. I love your blessing right here.
This is great stuff. This is what the gospel does that politics can't do. Let's not confuse them. And let's not give our heart to politics. We need to give our heart to God. This is how we rise up. It's our resistance.
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Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome, welcome to the Line of Fire broadcast. 866-348-7884.
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To bless you, to equip you, to strengthen you. We live in a very messed up, confused society. Do we not? We live in a deeply divided country.
We live in a crazy world. It's my goal, it's my calling to serve you as your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity. When I address a controversial subject, it's not for click bait, it's not to draw more people into our YouTube channel or our Facebook page or our podcast.
It is to draw people in to hear truth, to be challenged by truth, or to think through biblical perspectives. So look, right now, Democratic National Convention is taking place these days as I broadcast. I was traveling last night, so I didn't watch any of it. I watched snippets of the Republican convention. And then I watched part of President Trump's speech with the hope that he would really come with a unifying voice and after certain points said, okay, I'm done watching. I don't watch a lot of the conventions.
I'm not going to be reporting on the Democratic convention. I may say something here and there. I did speak in an article that I posted. You can read it on our website, thelineoffire.org, why I could not possibly vote for Kamala Harris as a follower of Jesus, why I couldn't.
I'm not your judge, just explaining why I couldn't. And then to the degree of voting GOP or Trump, the degree I do that with certain reluctance, etc. But bottom line is, bottom line, I'm here to remind you, I am doing my best as a servant of God to remind you to keep the main thing the main thing. I truly believe that in the 2020 elections, if we put as much time and effort into praying for revival in the church and repentance in the church and transformation in the church, if we put as much time and effort and energy into doing that, that we did praying for the outcome of elections, I believe America would look different today and the church would look different today. I believe if we carry the same passion to make the gospel known, to make Jesus known to this world, if we carry that same passion for that, that we put into who's going to win the elections and the passion and the outcome of the election, I believe America would be much more evangelized. I believe, it's going to sound a little rough, but I believe if some of us were as open about our faith as we are about our political views, that America would look very different. And some of us are far better known as defenders of a candidate or followers or supporters of a candidate than we are known as defenders of the faith and followers of Jesus.
And something is terribly, deeply wrong with that. All right. We will go to the phones. 866-34-TRUTH.
We'll start in San Antonio, Texas. Mike, welcome to the line of fire. Hey, Dr. Brown, thanks for taking my call. You bet. Can you hear me all right? Oh, yeah.
Yeah, it's good to always talk to you. First of all, I just got to say I love the tone that you just had just now about speaking to the importance of us not letting us divide each other politically and how we could uplift the gospel a lot more. And so that's kind of to me, it was a different tone yesterday. And if I could offer just a slight bit of pushback, I think that part of why yesterday may have come across to some. For me, it is in somewhat bad faith is because the presentation was picking two specific issues with on on a platform, deciding that they were immoral. And then questioning who is a Christian if they choose, rather than recognizing that number one, politics is very complex. And number two, most people don't most people have many other issues that they're looking at and politics as a whole. If we choose if we chose a different set of issues, like, for example, we I know your stance on the state of Israel and their occupation of Gaza, I've called these discussed that. But let's say, for example, you have a person such as myself who isn't choosing either one as of now, either candidate. But look at your position on Israel and particularly President Trump's position, which is to continue or he told Bibi they need to finish the job.
Well, a Palestinian may hear that as well. So you're going to wipe out all of their people. So that so then I could categorize that is someone voting for Trump is is voting for genocide. Now, then I could ask that same question.
I could start the same premise you would just start with. Hey, so if you're if you're accepting genocide, are you a true Christian? But see, I don't think I would ask that. I think that would be unfair because the political take.
That's not up. That's not a moral take in that way. It's a political conversation and we can have different views. So I just felt like yesterday was you you began with a political with your two issues that you had issues with.
And then just decided that this is how we're going to judge a Christian. I just thought that that was unfair. Well, thank you. And again, I wanted pushback.
That's why I told everyone call in the next days. I much prefer doing a show like that live so that there can be pushback and dialogue and interaction for this very reason. So here's here's what I want to put forward for you to consider. OK, first, I did say I'm not your judge. This is why I could not vote a certain way, but I'm not your judge. But hang on just with some noise going on there.
Now, I'm going to keep you on through the break so you'll be able to respond on the other side of the break. But I did say in the days of slavery, no matter how good a candidate was, if they were pro slavery, I could not vote for them. And I see abortion the same way. So that to me is a non-negotiable.
The shedding of innocent blood is massively important scripture. And contrary to Trump telling Bibi, finish the job, which means destroy Hamas, which will now set the Palestinian people free. Free Palestine from Hamas.
Yes, absolutely. That's that's the goal. Finish the job by getting rid of Hamas to free the people of Palestine to get out from under that evil regime. So no one is advocating genocide. On the flip side, the vice president Harris has made plain in the Democratic platform, explain that they want a federal ban. They want to reinstate Roe.
They want to reinstate Roe v. Wade, which would mean actively overturning every pro-life law in every single state. So whoever is voting for the Democrats, that's part of it. So I could understand someone said, I can't vote for either party. I get that. I understand.
But to me, it does come down to certain ethical issues. So get your gun on the other side of the break. You can be silenced. I'm here to say, friends, that I am not about to be silenced.
And I don't believe you are either. It is time for us to stand up. It is time for us to say enough is enough. It is time for us to push back in Jesus name, not fighting the way the world fights.
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Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome back to The Line of Fire. And a shout out again to our faithful supporters and friends. Thank you so much for standing with us.
So I want to go back to Mike. You still there, sir? Yes. Still here, sir.
Okay. So if you remember, if you listened to all the show yesterday, I did talk about if I lived in the days of slavery. And one candidate was real strong on other issues, but was pro-slavery. And the abolitionist candidate was real weak on the other areas. I, under no circumstances, could vote for the pro-slavery candidate. I might have to sit out the election, but it's impossible for me to vote for the pro-slavery candidate.
So, contrary to the analogy you made with Trump, and of course, Israel moved out of Gaza in 2005, so they haven't occupied Gaza since then. But since it's explicit clear, President Biden said it, Vice President Harris has reinforced it, it's in the official party platform that if they have control of Congress, they want to reinstate Roe, which will directly lead to the overthrowing of every pro-life law that has been passed and saving thousands of baby lives. That, to me, is not my issue.
The Bible shouts about the shedding of innocent blood and harm to the little ones and the innocent ones. So that's why I said I could not possibly vote for the Democrats just for that one thing, even if they're going to be strong in other ways. Maybe I couldn't vote Republican either because of issues with Trump or the GOP, whatever. That's a separate issue.
In no circumstances could I do that. So in that sense, yeah, that is a bottom line for me. Again, I can't judge someone else, but I can make a very strong statement about it. So where would you take issue with that?
Because it's explicit? It would be like the GOP saying, we stand for the genocide of the Palestinians. If that's the case, I couldn't vote for the GOP, period. If that was a stated goal and platform, we stand for that, then I couldn't vote GOP, even if they were strong on other issues. I'd have to sit out the election in terms of president. So let me offer the pushback.
And thank you for allowing me to have this time. My initial statement was these are political complex issues, correct? So when you say how I could draw one to one, so if someone, let me give you an example. So Senator Tim Kaine in 2016, when was asked about abortion running with Secretary Clinton, when asked about abortion, his response was that I'm not in favor of abortion. I wouldn't advocate for someone to get an abortion. And I don't think that the government should decide it. Now, what you would say is you could say, well, you draw a one to one line that if you say it's OK for people to decide, then you're indirectly saying that people could kill their kids.
I would agree with your stance. Now, let me draw the equal conclusion. If you agree with Donald Trump and the president to continue to give military arms to Israel, you're indirectly agreeing to killing innocent Palestinians. Now, you can say politically it's different because you're trying to kill Hamas. But again, a Palestinian doesn't hear that. What they hear you saying is you're justifying the genocide of their people.
Forty thousand people were killed. So it's a one to one analogy. If we were to try to say indirectly by saying you want women to choose what they want to do. And I'm not agreeing with that. But if you're saying indirectly, you're saying innocent people will die.
That is analogous to saying, well, I support Israel. I have a question for you. I have a question for every day on the road.
The innocent people die in car accidents. Sure. All right.
So should we pull all cars off the road? No. All right. So you stand for the killing of innocent people. Right. You know, you support killing. Oh, so it's that it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous.
No. What I'm saying. I don't care what I'm saying. Now, what I'm saying is what the people protesting the DNC right now. So they're protesting. They're probably people who are in favor of abortion. And yet they're still protesting the DNC.
What they're protesting is these arms are, again, doing what they're doing. And remember, my point is, Dr. Brown, this is a political argument we're making. We're not making a political argument.
Let me back up and ask you this. Is there a difference between saying we want to actively overthrow every pro-life law in America? That is our goal versus we want to kill terrorists. Unfortunately, some civilians will die because we're killing the terrorists. Just like we want to destroy the Nazis, but German civilians will die. Is there a difference between saying we want to eradicate pro-life laws? That is our intent. That is our goal. We want to do that versus we want to kill terrorists.
Unfortunately, in killing terrorists with war, there will be innocent casualties. Is there a moral difference between the two? Can I answer it by restating your statement a different way? Can I answer it that way? Answer my statement first.
Is there a moral difference between the two? This is a straw man. In a way that you phrased it, yes. It's not a straw man.
That's reality. By the way, I have no problem. Can I give you another way?
I just want to say this. All I'm asking is if I could give you another way to frame it and then ask you that same question. I just want to say one thing first, then you can. Sure. All right.
Sure. I have no problem with someone saying why they couldn't vote for GOP for XYZ reasons, as long as they agreed that you can't possibly vote Democrat because of their abortion policy. I've got no issue with that. I didn't say you have to vote the other, or you say I find Donald Trump to be such a repulsive, immoral, divisive man that the damage he'll do as president is incalculable, so I can't vote for either. I've got no argument with you.
Go ahead. I'm saying don't tell me that you can be Christian and hold to a biblical value. I say I cannot be rightly challenged on the idea that as a follower of Jesus who loves life and who hates the shedding of innocent blood that I could possibly vote Democrat. Now, you could give an argument why you can't vote Republican, too. More power to you.
Great. That's not my argument. My show yesterday was why I couldn't vote for Kamala Harris and Democrats.
That was my show. And if you say, well, for XYZ reasons, I can't vote for the I believe Israel's war against the Palestinians is unjust, unfair. There are too many casualties, and Republicans support it.
I couldn't vote for them. Okay. I differ with you, but okay. That's not my fight.
Kamala? Right. Okay. So go ahead. Make your point, then.
Go ahead. What you just landed on was what I began with. The premise is these are complex issues, and depending on how we frame it is how we will is how we can determine who is immoral or immoral. So that was my example, is that the way you framed it, sure, there is no moral equivalency to people who are stating that they want to kill innocent babies by allowing Roe v. Wade and an indirect killing of innocent civilians. But if I flip the scenario and flip the framing and said, people want women that have the right to choose, and these people want to kill all of these different groups of people for political reasons, then I'd ask you the same question.
You would choose the latter. My point is that your show, while it was your opinion, your show brought into question people's Christian faith. And I'm saying you framed it in a way that made it that way versus if someone else framed it another way, it wouldn't be. And you are well on keeping things balanced and fair. And I think yesterday was a moment where you felt emotionally strong about it, which I do as well.
I share your emotions about abortion. I still make the same statement. No, I still make it too, but I'm just saying it's not just. I'm saying you're not holding the same balance. You're framing it based on what your lens is.
But if you took another lens, you would frame it differently. I'm saying complexity is different when we're judging what we think is moral based on scripture and how we want to apply it. And in a political landscape like the American empire, there's always going to be this conversation.
I think the Christians should not be judging each other's Christianity based on our political differences. Yes, I've got it. So listen, I've given you, because of your tone and the content, and I think you represent others as well. I had an extended discussion just with you. OK, I've got a ton of more things I wanted to get into, but I wanted to respect you for saying that. Here's where I differ. Here's why I fundamentally differ. Number one, I didn't judge anyone else. I didn't. I explicitly said I'm not your judge. So I didn't judge anyone else. Number two, I 100 percent stand by every word I said yesterday. Why?
Because I wasn't going by complexity or nuance. I'm going by fact. The Democratic platform says this. President Biden, Vice President Harris and Democrats are committed to restoring the reproductive rights Trump ripped away with the Democratic Congress. We will pass national legislation to make Roe the law of the land again.
Period. No ambiguity, no nuance. So what does that actually mean? It means that all the pro-life laws that have been passed that we've worked so hard to pass and just take another step in the right direction to eradicate abortion and have a culture of life, that those will be undone.
Goodbye. Goodbye, pro-life laws across America. That is explicitly the Democratic national platform is the Republican platform. Does it even include the war in Gaza or Trump's 20, 20 promises or emphases?
Right. But standing with Israel is important. Is there anywhere anywhere where it says that we advocate anything that leads to genocide of Palestinians?
No. Let's go further under Israeli rule, because Israel has been accused of genocide for decades. The Arab Palestinian population living within Israel itself has grown from 200,000 to over 2 million since 1948. The populations of Judea, Samaria and Gaza, so so-called West Bank and Gaza have multiplied four or five fold or at least twice, depending on where you are over the decades under Israel.
Massive growth. And then the 40,000 stats that you have, number one, that's the Hamas number. That's what Hamas, the terrorists themselves, are reporting.
That's number one. Number two, they don't report all the normal deaths that just come over the months from old age and sickness, etc. Those numbers are poor. And they don't tell you how many are terrorists. Israel may have killed up to 20,000 terrorists at this point. In other words, it may be one dead civilian for one dead terrorist, which would be unbelievably low numbers of casualties.
So it's not a complex thing. One is intentionally saying we will overthrow pro-life laws. The other saying, we'll stand with Israel and encourage Israel to be as careful as they can in executing war against Hamas. So there are differences. But either way, we can agree. We can agree that on the issue.
Can you follow Jesus rightly and vote for a Democrat that is radically pro-abortion? That's a question for you and God to answer. But thank you for the dialogue, Mike. Much appreciated. Are you experiencing fatigue, heart palpitations or tingling in your hands and feet? These may be signs that you are deficient in vitamin B12, which may increase your risk of serious cardiovascular conditions without you even knowing it. I'm Paul Burnett, a board certified doctor of holistic health and director of wellness services at Trivita.
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These statements are not intended to diagnose, treat, cure, or prevent any disease. This is how we rise up. It's the Line of Fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get on the Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.
Welcome back to the Line of Fire. Michael Brown, delighted to be with you, 866-348-7884. And I do, I do appreciate Mike calling in, and that's the very dialogue I want to have. That's why we pay to be on the air for talk radio. Okay, have you, some of you have been listening years and years, and you've been listening now the last couple of years with Trivita as our co-sponsor.
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It doesn't take the place of exercising, but boy, these will enhance and help in many, many ways. Folks have gotten great results, so check it out for yourself. Remember, 100%, 100% of your first order is donated straight to the line of fire. So check out the product and make a donation to the line of fire at the same time.
And then more than a tithe of all your subsequent orders go to the line of fire. So Trivita has been super generous towards us and towards you, gives you a 25% discount. So if you haven't called 800-771-5584, go to trivita.com, use the code BROWN25, and hopefully you'll benefit these products as I have as well. All right, let's go to our friend Jamal in North Carolina. Thanks for calling the line of fire. Thank you for taking my call, Dr. Michael Brown.
Love the show, and I like how you are a strong defender of the faith and how you do not waffle on the Scriptures. And that's one of the reasons why I'm calling is to actually kind of have some pushback against the previous caller. As I've stated before, I believe when I called the show last time, I'm a former Democrat, also a black guy, plus that demographic out there. And one of the reasons why I switched was because of the abortion issue. I was scared to mind that it was clump of cells, not life in there, just chemicals.
You wash it out, no harm, no foul. Until I heard of movies like Unplanned and heard of people like Abby Johnson coming out, who used to be a director here of Planned Parenthood, how babies felt pain, how they jerked and how they were dismembered and all that, won't get into all the demographics. But as a Christian and even as a moral person, Christian or not, I could not support those kind of methods for abortion. Then I listened to other people on Truth Network about the science behind life inside the womb, where you have two different chromosomes coming together and you have a new life. At conception you get your full DNA as the sperm and the egg come together. You get your full DNA at conception.
Whoa! Exactly right. And on top of that, they say at the pregnancy centers, which support life, at the pregnancy centers, they say that there's a flash of light when that moment happens.
It's almost like the spark of God could get into that light. So how could anybody be for that? Then I dug a little further and I said, well, what else have I been drawing on on the Democratic platform?
Wrong on this whole defend the police, defend the police, wrong on the abortion, wrong on the welfare, wrong on foreign policies, so on and so forth. So for anybody coming out there and saying that the Bible's only slanted towards one person or one type of group or one demographic, no, the Bible is the same yesterday, today, and forever. And it's for everybody. The Bible's not slanted towards any kind of group. What we need to do, we need to be slanted towards the Bible and not slanted towards the ways of man. Yeah, well said on every front. And you know what's fascinating, Jamal, is with 4D ultrasounds and other things, it's impossible to just say it's a clump of cells anymore. So basically the new position is just, well, my body, my choice. I can't deny that part anymore, but my body, my choice. And it's another form of denial, obviously, but that old argument just doesn't work. And that's why it's been documented that like there's some outreach ministries that they'll have a truck in front of a Planned Parenthood or wherever else they can park it and offer the woman, would you like a free ultrasound before you go in to abort your baby?
And a high percentage of those that get the ultrasound end up not aborting their baby. One other question for you, Jamal, when this is a real baby, when you watched Unplanned, so that one scene where Abby Johnson is in the back and sees what happens in an abortion, how did that affect you? Well, actually, I just heard about the movie. I didn't watch it, but I did see other videos quite like that.
A friend of mine here. I'm sorry, go ahead. No, if you're able to see it, do so. What happened was a colleague of mine had a license to show it in different places. And anyway, I was sent an advanced copy to watch.
So I've got in my home office on my desk, I've got a big computer monitor where I do my writing. So I thought, you know what, I'm going to be teaching in a few hours. Nancy and I are not having dinner together, so I'll bring my salad in there. And I'm eating just watching it, thinking, OK, it's going to tell her story. And then there's a certain point it's going to get to what happened when she actually saw an abortion for the first time. It actually was taking place and the baby's being sucked out. So I thought this would be later in the movie.
So I just kind of watch and eat my salad. And to my shock, it happens early on. And I lost it. Jamal, I absolutely lost. I started sobbing and weeping. I composed myself after about 10 or 15 minutes.
I composed myself and I went to tell Nancy, who was in another part of the house about the movie. The problem was not long before that, we'd gotten some bad news, a friend, something had happened. And so I come to talk to her and I can't talk.
It hits me again. I can't talk. And I started crying.
It's like, what is the what is the matter? And I can't talk. And finally, I said, this movie just don't do that. You're just I scared her. You know what's going on?
I can't tell her. But it it really it hit me. And it's hit so many. Just when you actually see, OK, there's this baby, they're moving, they're pounding.
And it's zipped out, sucked out. Oh, my. Oh, my. Yes. Yeah.
And to get to respond to that, because I know we have limited time, although I did not see that movie. I saw other videos just like that. And I had a similar reaction.
Dr. Brown. It was upsetting. It was it was rattling. And it was also angering. One, because we're still doing this, two, because it's taxpayer funded.
Three, that I've been told a lie for so many years. So I felt a lot of different emotions when I saw videos like that. And credit to the Christian brothers and sisters were not afraid to show these videos. And I hear people saying, well, we can't show them this kind of graphic. No, sure.
Because if I can be converted by methods like this, like this, other people can be converted also. And sometimes just seeing the images, you can't show the images. What's what's happening? It's what's actually happening.
How do you not show the images? Hey, thank you for the call, Jamal. I appreciate it. God bless. So, amen.
Thank you for the call. And again, this is this is why we have talk radio. I want to say this clearly. I cannot vote Democrat for a number of reasons, abortion being number one. That being said, the GOP is not God's party. The GOP is not the kingdom of God. And Donald Trump is not the anointed man who's going to save America. The GOP is deeply flawed.
And Donald Trump is deeply flawed. I would gladly vote for a candidate that is far from ideal to stop something that I think is very ugly and wrong. For example, potential democratic agenda to to to change the nature of the Supreme Court or stack it in such a way that you could never undo it. Or if you now allow enough illegal immigrants to give them a right to vote, you can you can shift elections for years to come. There are massive implications of policies. So when I voted for Donald Trump the first time, I was mainly voting against Hillary Clinton because I was very skeptical he would keep his promises.
He did keep his promises. But then his character flaws are such the type of person is such that it has a negative impact and a different level. And you have to weigh the collateral damage, et cetera. So I am not one saying praise the Republicans, the amazing Republicans, the incredible pro-life righteous party, the Christian Party.
I'm not mistakenly doing that. I wrote an article recently saying if you vote GOP and Trump, just do it with your eyes wide open. And under Trump, the pro-life stand platform has has been gutted and the the pro-family imposing same sex marriage that's been gutted.
So many things have been gutted. And yes, I'm deeply appreciative to President Trump appointing three justices who helped overturn Roe and justices who to this day are fighting for religious rights. And now two out of three justices voted to to nullify the Biden Harris revamping of Title nine, which would take away all the the fundamental rights that come to a woman and to girls through Title nine now disappear because a boy who identifies as a girl now qualifies.
So the Supreme Court said, no, that's thanks to Supreme Court appointees by President Trump. I'm deeply grateful for that. But I am not looking to Trump to the GOP to politics to do what only the gospel can do. Let us never be confused. Let us never be confused. All right, friends, join with me again tomorrow. Home lines will be open. We'll be glad to be with you. Let's keep the conversation going. And above all, let's remember Jesus is Lord and together we are making a difference.
