Did you notice that Pride Month kind of went out with a whimper and an important discussion about science and evolution? It's time for the Line of Fire with your host, biblical scholar and cultural commentator, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity. Call 866-34-TRUTH to get on the Line of Fire. And now, here's your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome, welcome to the Line of Fire. Michael Brown, delighted to be with you.
Back live, we had two days where I was teaching in Pennsylvania, so we put together two shows prerecorded. I pray we're blessing to you on Monday and Tuesday. And we've got a special guest who's going to join us at the bottom of the hour.
Rob Stadler, Ph.D. in Medical Engineering from Harvard, MIT Division of Health Sciences and Technology. We're going to talk about science and evolution. And maybe, maybe in this first half hour, maybe I'll take some calls. 866-34-TRUTH.
866-34-87884, if you have a science evolution question, I am not the one to answer those. Those are not in my field at all. I do want to talk about June, Pride Month, according to Gay and Lesbian Proclamation for years now.
Kind of came and went with a whimper this year. I want to talk about that and what that signifies. We'll do that in a moment. In the next few days, I'm going to be putting together our front-line newsletter for the month of July. Powerful testimonies we have planned, a message that will stir your heart, Hebrew word study. We've got some great feedback from our last front-line newsletter, which I put together while in Israel and then while coming back from Israel, so it was reflected being on the front lines there. So if you're not getting it, it's free, it's digital. Comes your way once a month.
Go to thelineoffire.org, thelineoffire.org, and just click on subscribe. Last year, if you remember, there was a whole lot more talk about gay pride, a whole lot more controversy surrounding it, to the point that Piers Morgan, who's been a long-time gay ally, whose own position is, I don't think anybody cares anymore about who you're in relationship with, whatever, he's the one that challenged me when I was on CNN on his show 11 years ago, saying there should be one verse in the Bible where Jesus said anything about gay or being gay, etc. So he is historically an ally of the gay and lesbian community, but he's been pushing back against transgender activism, against children identifying as not just a boy identifying as a girl and vice versa, but now furries and kids identifying as animals and things. He's been pushing back against that, but last June, he got to the point where he actually said, everywhere I go, it's gay pride, rainbow flag, everywhere I go, there was the overkill of it. And Target with the controversy with the tuck bathing suits, and Bud Light with their disastrous decision with a male, Dylan Mulvaney, make him into female, and now the poster girl of Bud Light, and cost them over a billion dollars, according to what I've read.
There was a whole lot more going on, and this year, less. So let me say something very plainly. If you say, Mike Brown, why do you hate gays and lesbians? I don't hate gays and lesbians. There's not a hateful bone in my, but it doesn't occur to me to be hateful towards someone. And the other night, I saw something, it was a performance, Elton John singing Rocket Man, and obviously, he's a character of sorts, and he was known for his drug use and different things in years past. He was like the model, godly man, but gifted performer, and then together with his partner for years, and raising some kids, and when I see something like that, or just when I was in New York City, and some guys walking down the street, some older guys, evidently gay, just walking down the street, I don't think, you pervert, you sicko pervert. I'm thinking, I understand that they just want to live their lives, this wouldn't be who they are.
That may be you. You don't have an agenda, what's your agenda? Go to work, go home, be with your spouse, take care of your kids, go to the movies one night. That's your agenda. It's like everybody else, just living a normal life. And you're saying to us Bible believers, why can't you just get out of our way? After all, the Supreme Court changed things, it's nine years ago, and just get out of our way, let us live our lives. I don't have hostility towards you. I don't hate you.
I don't, you're the worst of all the most, you're all sexual predators, I don't look at you like that. That's not my mindset, that's not my attitude. In fact, 20 years ago, when God first began to burden me about gay activism in society, and the trans activism was not as loud then, but when he began to burden me about this 20 years ago, I was concerned about what was happening in the society, I was concerned about what was happening in the world around us. I knew it was wrong, I saw it was going, I saw already 20 years ago that gay activism was the principal threat to freedom of religion, speech, and conscience in America.
It was already the case 20 years ago. That was evident to me. But I knew just being concerned about issues did not fully represent God's heart, because God cares about people. And one pastor said some years ago, when our generation, Psalm 69, boomer generation, we hear the word homosexuality, we think an issue. The younger generation, you hear the word homosexuality, you think a person. And it is both issues and people. So I wanted to have God's heart for people. I made an appointment with a local gay journalist who bashed Christian conservatives very strongly in the gay newspaper, the Carolinas, made an appointment just to have lunch with him, just to hear his story, and to understand his life and perspective better.
I did that with other local activists, and would read whatever I could read to try to understand where they're coming from, their mindset. I knew what the word said. The word was clear. I got all the books trying to say the Bible doesn't say this, it doesn't mean this.
I've got a massive library of those, and they're completely unconvincing based on the plain testimony of Scripture. But I got them. I wanted to see where they're coming from. But I wanted to get a heart for the people, even reading stories about the early gay activists and this triumph and this freedom they were feeling, and finally we can be ourselves.
Because I've never related to that, I've never struggled in those areas, so I can't relate to it. So I was trying to see the world through their eyes. Those were gay allies, and hey, love is love, and so on. And not just say, well, the Bible says, and yeah, the Bible does say, and I stand by what the Bible says, but I also wanted to have a heart for people. And God began to burden me to the point of tears. And the word that coalesced in my heart in early 2005, in January of 2005, bringing together months of thought and prayer, was reach out and resist. It's what God spoke to my heart in Washington, D.C. at a pro-life event, standing in front of the Supreme Court freezing cold with red tape out of my mouth with the words life written on it, a rally with some of our friends there, a prayer rally. As we prayed for the overturning of Roe v. Wade, I heard the Spirit say to my heart, reach out and resist. Reach out to the people with compassion. Resist the agenda with courage.
And that's been our mantra for 20 years. Reach out and resist. Reach out to the people with compassion. Resist the agenda with courage. Over the years, another phrase dropped in my heart, hearts of compassion, backbones of steel.
There's a book coming out by that name in the fall. Hearts of compassion, backbones of steel. That's what we seek to emulate.
That's what we seek to operate. So on the one hand, I'm committed to loving my neighbor as myself. And if it's a gay neighbor, joyfully love my neighbor as myself. And in fact, maybe even go out of my way more to demonstrate love because if they know who I am and what I believe, they might likely think I'm a bigot or a homophobe or a transphobe, et cetera. But all the more what I want to demonstrate, love that represents the heart of the Lord, not condescending, well I'll be nice to you because you're some wicked sinner and I'm some saint. No, you're my neighbor. You're my neighbor. We're fellow human beings all in need of a savior.
Jesus died for us the same way. So for sure, for sure, I'm committed to treating every human being with civility. And I'm absolutely committed to loving my neighbor as myself, especially a neighbor that identified as LGBTQ plus somewhere on the spectrum, demonstrating genuine love for God towards him. At the same time, I oppose an activist agenda. I believe it's destructive. I believe that the redefining of marriage has been destructive. I believe that trans activism is destructive. I believe that seeking indoctrinated kids in schools is destructive. I believe that ultimately for human thriving, the ideal setting is a child joined to his mother or her mother and father.
That's the ideal setting. So I will push back and I will be glad to see the pushback continue for years. If you've been listening, if you've been reading our stuff for years, we've been saying the pushback is coming. The pushback is coming. The pushback is coming. Because it seems like everything just swinging overwhelmingly in favor of LGBTQ plus activism. But there has been a steady pushback and attitudes and things like that. And this year, it just hit me towards the end of June. Wait a second.
It kind of came in and out with a whimper. So I've got an article about that. You can read it at thelineoffire.org. If you get our emails, once a week, we'll update you with latest emails and things like that. So you'll know. You know what's what.
You won't miss anything. So it's called Pride Month Goes Out with a Whimper. And again, last year, things were so intense, Piers Morgan is having a dialogue with a gay comedian on his show, and he says, have we gone rainbow crazy or is Pride Month more important than patriotism? And then in interacting with this gay comedian, he says, you're triggered by a rainbow flag. He said, I'm not triggered by a rainbow flag.
I'm triggered by the fact that everywhere that I go for a month, everything has to be a rainbow flag. This is Piers Morgan a year ago. Mr. Joe Rogan, world's biggest podcast. And obviously, Joe Rogan, you know, pot smoking non-believer, right?
So worldly guy, great insights on lots of things, but a worldly guy. So Target introduces this new line of swimwear, tuck swimwear for men who identifies women because they have to tuck some stuff in if you're going to wear a lady's bathing suit. So it's got some extra fabric and they had it prominently in the stores. They had it for kids, too. Like, oh, God help us, this is sick.
May God help those who struggle on the inside to find homes from the inside out. But this stuff is sick. Joe Rogan, this is not evangelist so-and-so or pastor so-and-so or Bible teacher so-and-so. This is Joe Rogan. When I go to Target, I don't want to see like expletive tuck pants.
They're designed to help you tuck your expletive. Like hey, that's not normal. This is Joe Rogan. And then who helps spark the boycott against Bud Light? Kid Rock. Kid Rock. No, I'm not a follower of Kid Rock.
I don't like identifying anybody's music just outside of the time when I was listening to music like that, but to my knowledge, Kid Rock is a born-again believer. Slight understatement, huh? So he puts out a video letting his gun do the talking and then adding in his own choice profane words saying, here's what I think about Bud Light.
And he's got all these cases of it, shoots it as the beer comes pouring out. The boycott of Bud Light was so effective that at the end of the year, December of last year, he said, Bud deserved a black eye and they got one for the partnership with this trans gentleman, Dylan Mulvaney, but then added, he's over the boycott. So do I want to hold their head under water and drown them because they made a mistake? No, I think they got the message. Hard not to get a message when it cost your company, according to what I've read, as much as $1.4 billion in losses. Well businesses have changed. Targets changed. The pushback continues, friends.
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Get on the Line of Fire by calling 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. I'm mixing in the nitric oxide and Mile Health.
So I put them in one, drink that, especially before a workout, sometimes after a really intense workout, but yeah, just part of my daily routine, among other things. Just happen to be there. All right, so let me just say a few more things before we transition to our guest at the bottom of the hour, and we talk science and evolution. CNN reported in May, May of this year, May of 2024, Target is limiting the number of stores that will sell LGBTQ themed merchandise for Pride Month in June following a boycott from right-wing activists this year that took a toll on the brand's bottom line. So Target is saying, hey, this is hurting us financially, and there are stores where things sell well and Pride Month and all that, but otherwise, we're not going to be pushing Pride merchandise on you everywhere you turn.
There it is, there it is, there it is. We're not going to be doing that. This year, Target said it will sell only Pride themed adult apparel, so they got rid of the kids stuff. There was enough outrage over that. They got rid of the kids stuff in terms of clothes and home goods.
In select stores, based on historical sales performance, a drastic reversal for the chain that had typically sold the items in many of its U.S. stores for the past decade, friends, this is another sign of pushback. Again, my issue is not someone living their life, you give account to God. If you're a heterosexual guy sleeping with your girlfriend, you give account to God, not to me. If you're an atheist, you give account to God, not to me. If you're Buddhist, if you live with four people all mixing together, you know, couples mixing and you're swapped, whatever, it's not illegal, it's between you and God. I'm not the moral enforcer. The church is out here knocking on your door, hmm, what are you doing? No, it's not our role, it's not our calling, it's not our job as believers, but there's activism in society that I'll oppose. That's destructive, that's not helpful, it's ultimately harmful.
And you watch the trajectory and the trajectory gets more and more extreme until people begin to say, what is this? They would have been saying it for years. So CNN reported, excuse me, CBS, this year, public facing pride campaigns at some of the world's largest brands were quieter than usual. And other companies that previously had them, they were completely absent, fewer public campaigns means less visibility, which LGBTQ advocates and consumers in the community say can be dangerous in myriad ways.
So they're saying it's going to be dangerous if you don't have all the products and people won't be recognized and so on. I say that is the issue, normalizing that which God did not intend to be normalized, pushing on everyone was the agenda and lifestyle of percentage-wise still a small, small part of the country. And here's one other thing, in the gay community, in the broader gay, lesbian, bi, trans community, if your goal is social acceptance, then many of your pride events are the worst advertising for it because many of them through the years have been marked by vulgarity and public nudity and perversion. So can you imagine an Asian Pride Day that's going to be marked by that? Or a Jewish Pride Day that's going to be marked by that? Or Black American Pride Day that's going to be marked by that? Or some other group in America that's going to be marked by sexual displays? No, of course not. So what is so demeaning and undermining?
But many would just say it's the manifestation of the flesh that's there, the flesh, the nature of the movement itself. Either way, I'm glad that this pushback is continuing. This year also, Harry Potter author, longtime gay ally JK Rowling, she took on Scotland. JK Rowling took on the country of Scotland. So BBC reported in April this year, JK Rowling has challenged Scotland's new hate crime law in a series of social media posts inviting police to arrest her if they believe she's committed an offence. So according to the law, this is hate speech law, a person commits an offence if they communicate material or behave in a manner that a reasonable person would consider to be threatening or abusive with the intention of stirring up hatred based on their protected characteristics which include transgender identity. In response, Rowling posted a series of comments on April 1st, all with pictures of men who identified as women, before explaining, only kidding, obviously the people mentioned in the above tweets aren't women at all, but men, every last one of them. And she continued, and passing the Scottish hate crime act, Scottish lawmakers seem to have placed higher value on the feelings of men performing their idea of femaleness, however misogynistically or opportunistically, than on the rights and freedoms of actual women and girls. The new legislation is wide open to abuse by activists who wish to silence those of us speaking out about the dangers of eliminating women's and girls' single-sex spaces, the nonsense made of crime data if violent sexual assaults committed by men are recorded as female crimes, through grotesque unfairness of allowing males to compete in female sports, the injustice of women's jobs, honours and opportunities being taken by trans-identified men, and the reality and immutability of biological sex.
Boy, what a great critique of trans-activism. And what did the Scottish government do? Nothing.
Nothing. And did they get floods of complaints? From what I read, hmm. Presidential debate took place, of course the whole talk was about the horrific performance of Joe Biden, how old he looked, et cetera, that's been the big talk.
But something else, just a little side story. Prior to the debate, gay activists, LGBTQ plus activists, issued a warning stating this will be an enormous slight to our community if LGBTQ questions are not asked during this debate. Our community is deeply affected by where these candidates stand, yet they were not asked a single question relative to LGBTQ plus concerns. Although abortion came up a number of times. And this was noted by gay publications like the Washington Blade. So they're saying, we want this front and center. And the CNN moderators, who would gladly raise issues like that, whatever it was, it was not front and center them. People said, you better ask. And they said, no, not this time.
We're not going to do that. And that was noted. And Martina Navratilova, whom I've often quoted in recent months and years, so herself an out and proud lesbian and one of the greatest tennis players of all time, one of the top female tennis players of all time, she has outspokenly said, male bodies do not belong in women's sports. Hard to argue with that line. Male bodies do not belong in women's sports.
She said, I know I'm on the right side of history when she called so-called trans women athletes cheats. So the pushback is continuing. And if you noticed, again, Pride Month kind of came and went without all the controversy of last year, with all the fanfare of last year. I'm sure there are gay pride events, but I was in New York City for an event a little over a week ago. So still in June, just driving by one area and the pride flags everywhere, just covering a whole city square and yeah, I understand that, especially in a place like New York. But things continue to shift as more and more people say, enough already, enough already. Or like Piers Morgan said, I'm triggered by everywhere I go, there's a rainbow flag.
Everything has to be about Pride Month. And he was basically telling this gay comedian, don't you want to win people to your cause? Because the more you do this, the more you're going to turn them off. And polls in the last few years have even indicated a shift for the first time, standing with solidarity towards LGBTQ people, causes going up, up, up, up, up, up, started to decline. It's not because people are getting hateful, not because they're bigots, mean-spirited Nazis, KKK, vicious people, it's just because they've said enough already with this. And let us live our lives. We don't want our kids indoctrinated.
We don't want 13-year-old girls having full mastectomies, we don't want these sports injustice, we don't want it. Just that everywhere we turn, enough already. So I continue to love individuals, although they may call me hateful, that's fine. And I will oppose the agenda. And I will say, praise God, the pushback is continuing. We'll be right back with Rob Stadler.
Hey friends, Michael Brown here. My delight to serve as your voice for moral sanity and spiritual clarity. We are living in such urgent times today, friends, that all of us are in the line of fire.
There's a target on your back, there's a target on my back. If you simply seek to live by biblical values or just conservative moral values, you could be canceled, you could be cast out, you could be put down, you could be silenced. I'm here to say, friends, that I am not about to be silenced, and I don't believe you are either. It is time for us to stand up, it is time for us to say, enough is enough, it is time for us to push back in Jesus' name, not fighting the way the world fights, no, overcoming evil with good, overcoming hatred with love, overcoming the flesh with the power of the Spirit, overcoming lies with truth, and that's what we're here to do on the Line of Fire broadcast.
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Thanks, friends, for joining us on The Line of Fire. I'm looking on our board to bring our guest on, but I do not see him on, so could someone tell me what is happening now? Just trying to get to our guest, Rob Stadler. But while we're waiting to connect with him, so let me just give you a little background to what we'll be talking about.
My friend, Dr. Mark Stangler, voted Doctor of the Decade and been on the show with us a number of times in the past, he recommended I have Rob Stadler on, so we are really excited to do it. He holds a Ph.D. in medical engineering from the Harvard-MIT Division of Health Sciences and Technology. As a scientist in the medical device industry for over 20 years, he's obtained more than 160 U.S. patents, has been elected fellow of the American Institute of Medical and Biomedical Engineers, and has contributed to medical devices that are implanted in millions of patients worldwide. Whoa, that's quite a bio.
And he's written about these subjects as well, so we'll talk about that. Spontaneous generation of living organisms, life arising without progenitor or seed was a common belief in the time of Aristotle. Over the next 2,000 years, support for spontaneous generation slowly retreated to its final stronghold. Spontaneous formation of the first living organism, from recently acquired insights into the complexity of the simplest organisms, Tan and Stadler specified requirements for spontaneous formation of life and evaluate the prospects for natural processes to satisfy these requirements. The book is called The Stairway to Life.
We had him on the line and lost him. We'll get back to him in a moment, but I got to talk to you just totally plainly. I'm reading that. I'm trying to understand even what I'm reading because I am not scientifically trained. I am not scientifically trained.
So if you don't know my own story, this is why I don't do a lot of science apologetics. It's not my field. And that's why we don't get a lot of people asking me questions because it's not my field. That's why I don't debate scientists.
That's why I don't debate atheists about evolution and things like that. It's not my field. Thankfully, there are people that have mastered these fields that are brilliant, that are published, respected scholars in their field, and they can do a great job of answering questions.
But just, it's my own story here for a moment. So when I was in high school, I mean, you don't learn serious science in elementary school, middle school, we called it junior high then. You don't learn a lot of serious science and it's going to start to get more serious in high school than in college, right? So when it started to get more serious in high school, I was doing drugs. I was smoking pot. I was using LSD.
I was getting high every day. So I didn't pay any attention to these classes at all. I mean, literally, I don't remember science classes that I was in in high school. And then in 11th grade, we went on strike. Just like this campus protest out, strike was in the early 60s, early 70s this was. And we went on strike. We demanded all these rights. We didn't want formal classes. And remarkably, the school gave in to us.
I was one of the ringleaders in the whole thing, not the one who started it, but kind of helped provoke the thing and move it forward once it was going. And remarkably, the school gave in to our demands. And 11th to 12th grade now, everything shifted. And we have what was called safe school, student and faculty education.
And it was going to be a learning experience for all of us. I had no formal classes I had to attend other than band and orchestra the last few years. I had, of course, no science classes because we picked and choose what we wanted. We had 60, 70 students with their own little program and that was it.
That was it. So that was in high school. So I had no serious science classes in high school.
And then when I went to college, I didn't take a single science class in college. So that's why I bring on guests like Rob Stadler because they know what they're talking about when it comes to science. So sorry it's been difficult to connect with you. Great to bring you on the air. Welcome to the line of fire. Well, thank you, Dr. Brown.
It's great to be here. So just a question in terms of as you studied over the years before I get into some specifics, you're obviously studying in an environment where people are very naturalistic, where the idea of believing a biblical account is crazy to them, not even in their thinking, where religious belief is sometimes mocked. How were you able to maintain faith or develop faith in an atmosphere that gives you the idea of the people who are religious people are all ignorant? How did you maintain intellectual soundness and faith at the same time?
Well, that's a great question. You know, it's a struggle, of course, but I would say that any Christian in any vocation anywhere in life is going to face those kind of challenges, right, where they're going to be picked on, pushed aside, you know, laughed at, whatever it is. So I'm not so sure it's all that different than what anybody else faces, but I will say that in the science field, it is particularly difficult. It is hard, and I somehow was always given coworkers and friends and bosses who were also Christian, and that was very encouraging and certainly not common, so I'm very grateful for that, but I think that helped me through it all. All right, so you were around other people who were smart, who were educated, and they believed what you believed, so that was helpful.
So let's go through some of the questions you've dealt with, and then you can point our listeners to what you think would be the best book on the subject that you've been part of or that you've written. So we often hear in the news, you know, science hasn't discovered yet the origins of life, right, what are the processes that start life, but we're making progress, we're making progress. What's your response to that? Yes, almost every week in the news you hear some encouraging story about how something has been discovered, scientists have made a new finding that says it gives encouragement that life started completely on its own through purely natural processes, just physics and chemistry doing what they do, no help needed, and you hear that all the time, and it's important I think for people to recognize, first of all, what they're hearing has been highly filtered already through the fancy term for it, the philosophical term for it is methodological naturalism, meaning that some people think science can only point to natural causes, science is only allowed to consider purely natural causes, everything else has to be blocked out, right, up front, and that happens to be an extreme form of bias because they're blocking out anything that is not natural and only considering natural, and so what you hear in the news can only consider natural, it's only allowed to, and it can only really provide encouragement for belief in naturalism, and that's what you get in the news. And you also hear that what these scientists do is they break life down into its most simple components, its reductionism, reducing the complexity of life down to its simplest things, and then they'll do some kind of experiment in the lab with lots of human intervention, lots of human intelligence, even borrowing pieces from existing life, and get to, and get some chemicals to mix together and produce something related to life, and they'll get all excited, and they'll get a paper published in Nature, it'll enhance their career, their grant writing, and all that stuff, and not really appreciating that there was a lot of human intelligence involved, and that this is just one isolated component of the big picture of getting life started, and that there's all these special conditions involved in what they did accomplish, and they kind of push that aside, and so what the common person hears, then, is a very encouraging story about naturalistic origin of life that is really extremely biased, and I think misleading all of us.
We're all being misled by this barrage of media. All right, so let's turn this around, then, and we keep hearing the report, because obviously the process of life outside of God has not been discovered yet, that's where you keep hearing the latest report, because obviously they didn't find it yet. What would be some of the strongest arguments against a naturalistic view of the origin of life?
Yeah, my book is full of that, and this series of videos on YouTube we've made are just full of that, so it's hard to pick the best, but I'll make a good effort at it here. I think one of the most compelling reasons why we know natural processes could not have started life is a simple word, information. That every living thing is packed full of information, and we all know from all of our life experiences that when we encounter information, like in a book, like in computer code, like in any kind of product you use, like your car is packed full of information, your computer, your telephone, all of that information, all of it, without exception, comes from a mind, a creative mind. And when you take life, and even if you pick the simplest possible form of life, which is called a mycoplasma, it has more than a megabyte of information packed into this tiny little life that you can't even see.
It's extremely complex, extremely organized, and where does that information come from is ultimately the question, and no one really has a compelling way of explaining the arrival of information from a purely natural process. Got it. That's just one. That's just one.
Right, and it's a pretty massive one. By the way, the book, I know you've got several, but the one that would tie in, The Stairway to Life, An Origin of Life Reality Check, Rob Stadler, how do you pronounce your co-author's first name? Age. Age. It is change. Okay.
Change Tan. So, Chinese origin, and Harvard trained, The Stairway to Life, An Origin of Life Reality Check, Change Tan, T-A-N, and Rob Stadler. Okay, back to you. Yeah. So, another reason why we know that life couldn't have started through natural processes is that life is full of, it's just replete with these chicken and egg scenarios. The fancy term for that is circular causality, meaning that you can't have B until you have A, but you also can't have A until you have B. Now, humans can create chicken and egg type phenomenon like, you know, we have cell phone towers that we build, and a cell phone tower has no value whatsoever unless you have a cell phone, but, and we also have cell phones, and the cell phones have no value until you have a cell phone tower, right, in the whole system. So, humans can develop that whole system.
I tell you what, hang on right there, we'll just take a quick break and continue this on the other side of the break. The book to check out, absolutely fascinating, The Stairway to Life, an origin of life reality check. The authors are Tan and Stadler. I'm Dr. Paul Burnett, a board certified doctor of holistic health, and I've got some exciting news for you today about an amino acid formula scientifically shown to build lean muscle, improve strength, and reduce recovery time at any age. Dr. Robert Wolf was a researcher of muscle health who raised $20 million to fund 30 years of research and was able to perfect a formula scientifically shown to build lean muscle, improve strength, and improve recovery time at any age, and now this formula is available in TriVita's MyoHealth.
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We'll go right back to our guest, Rob Stadler. So you were mentioning in terms of chicken and egg scenarios, we can create something like that as human beings, cell phone, cell tower, et cetera, but you can't explain that in an evolutionary process. Again, I'm scientifically ignorant, but Nancy and I were sitting in front of our house, my wife and I, a few weeks ago, and she said, listen, it was a woodpecker pecking on a tree. And I said, how did the woodpecker, if the woodpecker exists by eating bugs that are in the wood there, and the only way to get to them is he pecks through the wood, then how did his head develop the tolerance to take that beating? Because you would have thought, well, in a way he dies and never develops. So again, in my scientific ignorance, it was one of those chicken or egg things that, well, unless this is there, then this can't exist.
So how did this develop? But obviously you understand that on a much more complex nature than that. Yeah, that's kind of a good example.
And we know it takes intelligence to design a situation which is a chicken and egg phenomenon. And I'll just give one example from life, because life is replete with these examples, even the simplest possible form of life. And the example I'll have for you then is that we all know there's DNA in life, even the simplest form of life, but a lot of people don't realize that the DNA is constantly degrading through natural processes, just water or sunlight, other chemicals will break apart the DNA. So life has to have built-in repair mechanisms that are always fixing your DNA constantly. All day long, they're fixing errors that show up in your DNA. And those, here's where the chicken and egg happens, those repair mechanisms are themselves encoded in the DNA. And so you can't have DNA that can survive until there's repair mechanisms, but the repair mechanisms are produced through the DNA, encoded in the DNA, and so you have a chicken and egg, which one has to come first?
Got it, got it. So when you just look at this, the only explanation is God. So isn't that then the standard God of the gaps?
Okay, so we don't have a better explanation. You come up with God of the gaps, so you create a God to fill in the gaps, we just need more scientific time to discover. You're saying it's not a matter of discovery, it simply doesn't work, correct?
It's not a matter of we'll be able to discover this, no, the thing doesn't work, something has to produce information or something has to start the cycle outside of the thing itself. But you've obviously endlessly heard the God of the gaps objection, what's your simple way of responding to it? Yeah, that's probably the most common objection I get, is basically saying, out of ignorance, we don't know what did this, and therefore God did it.
And that's exactly not what we're trying to say here, that's not my argument. My argument is more from we know enough to know better. We are smart enough, we've learned enough science, we know how physics and chemistry work. We know enough to say, hey, this could not have happened to a natural process. And so it's the opposite of the God of the gaps, it's based on what we know and what we don't, rather than what we don't know.
So what we know points us in this direction, what we know is evidence for God, as opposed to we'll just come up with this heavenly unicorn that does miracles because we have to fill in the gaps, no, no, the evidence tells us there must be X, Y, Z. Is there any other area in science, Rob, where there is such irrationality, in other words, the idea that nothing created everything, or that the intelligence of DNA, so at the moment that the sperm and the egg come together, and a human being, at the moment of conception that the DNA code is there, and then that DNA code is in every one of the, how many cells are human being, trillions of cells, whatever it is, is there any other area of science outside of those that intersect with faith that gets such an irrational response, such an unscientific response? And to have that such an unscientific response be accepted and propagated, that's the key, but honestly, no, I cannot think of any other field of science where this happens, and I believe it comes, you know, from starting with atheism, and people start with atheism or focus on naturalism, I think it'll always lead them to kind of a foolish conclusion, and that's why this is kind of a unique area. Another thing that happens in this field is extrapolation. You know, you'll see something like Richard Dawkins will say, hey, look, if dogs, we know that dogs have come from wolves, and that's just over the past couple of hundred years, and you look at all the variety of dogs from the poodle to the Great Dane to the chihuahua, if you just, if you could just imagine that another million years, what these dogs will become, that's evolution, and you know, what a great testimony to evolution, he would say. Well, what he's doing there is asking you to extrapolate a million fold over the data that we've actually observed, which is the last couple of hundred years, he wants you to extrapolate that a million fold, and nowhere else in science is that kind of extrapolation allowed.
It's usually laughed at. You know, if you can't actually observe something, you can't just extrapolate your way through it. Let me give you an example. If you saw a car, and you're watching this car, and it's at a stop time, and the car begins to accelerate, right, you see it accelerating five miles per hour, 10 miles per hour, and then it goes over a hill, and you can't see it anymore, and then you look at your friend and say, hey, you know what, in one hour, that car is going to be going 12,000 miles per hour, because it just keeps accelerating, right? That's an extrapolation that we all know is absurd. But yet scientists here in the field of evolution are allowed to do that and getting away with it.
Yeah, very, very interesting. So let me just state this once more, then it is your conviction as a scientist yourself, in working with other top-notch scientists, so not obscurantists, people here, you've got 160-plus patents, you work with people who have peer-reviewed academic studies published, so they're respected in their field, they're trained at the most respected institutions, that it's your conviction that if this was any other area, and this kind of evidence was being presented, if you were not positing a God figure, but something, some other conclusion, that if it was not a faith conclusion, that the evidence overwhelmingly points towards what you're saying, and that in any other area of science, people would say, oh yeah, that's a slam dunk, that's clear, this is the only logical thing, but this gets resistance specifically because the system is founded on atheism. Yep, I would agree with that, maybe to enhance what you said, though, that the position of naturalism or atheism is also a faith-based position, but it is, kind of by definition, it's the only allowed secular viewpoint, right, it's the only world view that's allowed, everything else will be scoffed at, right, not tolerated, and it's this particular field that calls that out, I think the rest of science is actually free to pursue the truth, but in this area you just can't, you're not allowed to.
Even the stifling of publications and respected journals that expose Darwinian naturalism, those get suppressed, I think why, if it's scientifically done, it's rigorous, why not challenge the system, obviously there's a lot hanging on the system. One other thing that we often hear about are organic molecules, where they're being discovered in outer space, maybe that points to the beginning of life in other places, so it's not so unique what happened on the Earth, how do you respond to that? Yeah, and that's often used to encourage people to think that life started on its own, you'll hear it in the news that there's been water discovered on some planet, or some organic molecules, maybe a little sugar molecule, or even an amino acid or something small like that, and that's used to get people excited, or you've also probably heard that meteors have come and landed here on Earth, a famous one called the Murchison meteorite that landed in Australia, and they took that thing apart, broke it open, and they actually found little organic chemicals like amino acids in that, and they say, aha, this proves that natural processes without any human intervention can produce these basic building blocks of life. And the response to that is, yes, natural processes can produce things like amino acids, and that's kind of like producing bricks, if you will, but producing bricks doesn't mean that you produce a house, it's just a brick. And the second part of that is that they also admit that inside this meteorite, not only did they find these amino acids that are found in life, but they found a million, millions of other molecular structures that are not found in life, or even could be toxic to life, and so the few amino acids they found are hopelessly mixed up with all this other garbage, and natural processes have no way of pulling out the good stuff and pushing away the bad stuff.
It's kind of like me saying, you know, if you were to look inside dog poo, you pick up some dog poo, you look inside, you probably would find some sugar molecules, individual sugar molecules or flour molecules that haven't been digested, but that doesn't mean you can use it to make a birthday cake. A birthday cake needs very pure ingredients, and unfortunately they're taking this meteorite and saying this is evidence that life could have started, but it's actually contour evidence that life could never have started from these natural processes. So again, I'm not scientifically trained, but my gut feeling has been that the more we learn scientifically, the harder it's going to be to hold to this atheistic Darwinian naturalism.
The evidence is going to be too overwhelming. Check out the book The Stairway of Life by Tan and Stadler. So we'll have to have you back on, have listeners call in with questions about evolution and the like. You're a great resource. Thanks for joining us, folks. Get the book, check it out for yourself. Thanks so much, sir.
