The Challenge of Standing with an Imperfect Israel

So why is it that the younger generation of Christians today, evangelical Christians, don't have the same heart for Israel that their parents have had? It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and President of Fire School of Ministry. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Yeah. It's literally Jewish Thursday here on the line of fire.

This is Michael Brown. I'm delighted to be with you. The phone lines are open for any Jewish-related question you have. Not just general Bible or general moral, cultural, or what's happening in the world, but Jewish-related question, Israel-related, Hebrew-related. Specific Old Testament type, messianic prophecy-type questions, even questions regarding radical Islam.

We'll do our best to take your calls today: 866-348-7884. It is my thoroughly Jewish joy to be with you today. on the line of fire. Yes, days of continued upheaval. There are times when there is greater peace and quiet on the earth.

There are times of greater turmoil. This is one of those in-between times. There's all types of turmoil, but it's not all-out world war. And yet there is constant tragedy, constant upheaval, and a lot of it having to do with radical Islam, and a lot of it having to do with the world attack on Israel.

So I want to talk about some of that with you today. I want to address a question we've touched on before, but I want to come back to today, namely, Younger evangelicals. Not just in America, I've seen it in other countries as well. Younger evangelicals don't seem to have the same heart for Israel. as their parents did.

Now, I don't mean that all older evangelicals Have universally supported Israel in the last generation. But there's no question that Israel's greatest friends. in the last Generation have been evangelical Christians. Not just America and other countries as well, but America, because of our size and influence, we've played a major role. And you have to realize that The Israeli government And Israeli leadership Welcome the friendship.

Welcome the support. But many Jews would be a little skeptical of Christian support for Israel. Why? Are you doing this? Why are you standing with us?

Is it because you just see it as something you're supposed to do prophetically? And you have to stand with Israel because Israel plays a certain role in the prophetic time clock, and then XYZ is going to happen, and then the church will be raptured, and Israel will go through hellish tribulation, and then Jesus will establish his kingdom on the earth.

So Israel just has some prophetic role to play, and therefore you're going along with it? Is there genuine love for Israel, genuine support for Israel, genuine solidarity with Israel? Is this just kind of some kind of set up to lead to the conversion of Jews? This is how many Jews would look at it, and for good reason, based on church history. based on Christian betrayals in church history.

Based on friendships that turned sour when Jews did not turn to Jesus in Mass, as some leaders expected, like. Martin Luther, certainly he hoped for something like that to happen. Um What's happened though is over the years. Israeli leadership Jewish leaders have recognized that there is a genuine Christian support for Israel. That the religion that many Jews associated with anti-Semitism and Jew hatred.

is actually proving itself to be a Jew loving faith, one that does say yes Jesus is the Saviour for all people, Jew and Gentile alike, but that is genuinely a friend of Israel and genuinely standing with Israel. And genuinely feeling some type of sacred responsibility and calling to do so. And yet the younger generation Does not share that as widely. I'm talking about even within the church. The question is, why?

Are there legitimate reasons? Illegitimate? A mixture. We'll tackle that today on Thurley Jewish Thursday, along with other news and your Jewish-related calls. Change the world.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome back to Thurley Jewish Thursday.

Michael Brown, welcome to the broadcast. My latest article A little bit different, a little bit different than other articles I have written, but I thought. Mentioned something that seems crazy and far out, and yet of interest and of relevance.

So Here is just very quickly my latest article, and it does relate to Israel. It's entitled, Is Kim Kardashian a Secret Agent Working to Undermine Muslim Morals? You say you gotta be kidding me.

Now that's the article. This Kim Kardashian, a secret agent working to undermine Muslim morals.

Now this is actually an accusation from Iran. This is an accusation from Iran. And it was Fox News Insider website, because you thought it was a spoof. When you first see it, you think that's a satire. It's a spoof.

Iran is accusing Kim Kardashian West of being a secret agent because of her provocative Instagram photos. And then an actual quote from Mustafa Ali Zadeh, spokesman for the Iranian Revolutionary Guard's organized cyberspace crimes unit. Quote, Ms. Kim Kardashian is a popular fashion model, so Instagram CEO tells her, make this native, meaning native to Iran. There is no doubt that financial support is involved as well.

We are taking this very seriously, he said.

Well, when I saw this report, it reminded me. It reminded me of reports I've read where Hamas or other Islamic leadership has accused Israel of spying on them or attacking them. with various animals, using sharks, eagles, griffon vultures, boars, rats, hyenas, or dolphins. either to spy on their people or attack their people. Oh yeah, a actually true.

Actually true. No, no, not true that Israel did this. True that some Muslim leaders believe this, that Israel has spied on them or attacked them using sharks, eagles, griffin vultures, boars, rats, hyenas, or dolphins. And I said, when it comes to Kim Kardashian being a secret agent who's being paid to undermine Muslim morals, there's no more truth to that, in my opinion. Then there I'm no expert on Kim Kardashian, but in my opinion, no more reliability in that report than in the reports about Israel using these different animals to spy on or attack Muslims.

What is clear? Is that Kim Kardashian is part of the larger decadent culture? of America. The larger sexually immoral culture of America, and we export that around the world as a culture. And That's one major reason that some of the Muslim nations like Iran call us the great Satan.

Another reason is because we support Israel, which they call the little Satan. But In point of fact, this is part of a larger undermining of morals of Christians and Muslims and others. And in that sense, is a matter of concern. 866-348-7884. Younger.

believers, why don't they have the same heart? standing with Israel today. Is it that they're biblically illiterate? Is it that the older generation was caught up with prophecy? Is it multi-factored?

One thing that came up in a conversation with Michael Otifer and Joshua Charles last week about their new book on Israel. That God is real in you. is that The younger generation is theologically weaker but relationally stronger. Theologically weaker. But relationally Stronger.

And the the older generation Uh the older generation was theologically strong and relationally weaker. Meaning this, not overall, but in terms of Israel. that the older generation saw so clearly, my generation, God's hand to restore the Jewish people to the land. God's hand in keeping the Jewish people preserved in the land. Etc.

They they saw God's supernatural grace involved. Out of the ashes of the Holocaust, the rebuilding of the nation of Israel, they saw the prophetic scriptures lining up so clearly. They saw the surrounding Muslim nations wanting to wipe Israel out and not succeeding. They saw Jerusalem come back into Jewish hands. This was undeniably God.

And I still say to this day, of course, it's undeniably God that these things happened and that the scriptures laid these things out in advance.

So we were not as concerned with injustice towards Palestinians. We were not as concerned with some of the other issues on the ground because we just saw these are Muslim terrorists who want to kill the Jews. and God is standing with Israel. The younger generation doesn't have as clear a view on scripture, and for a number of reasons, which I'll come to.

Well, let me just say it now. The younger generation is more scripturally illiterate than the older generation. The younger generation of the church, by and large, knows the scriptures less than the older generation. They have less of a historical perspective. much less of a macro perspective, much more of a micro perspective.

And they see Palestinian hardship They see the difficulties on the ground. they see Israel's flaws more plainly. because of which They are not as an average with what God is doing. with Israel. and are more concerned often about Palestinians.

Now I believe there is a harmonious way to look at all of this, but these are some of the issues. And glad to get your take as well. On why the younger generation is not standing with Israel as strongly. Let's start in Orangeburg, New York. Joseph, welcome to the line of fire.

Oh, hello, hello.

Well, Doctor Brown, thank you. Thank you very much for having me. Sure thing. First of all, I just want to say, you know, I I myself, I'm not a Christian, I'm a Hasidic rabbi. But I see I want to thank you for even though we might have theological differences, you know, standing together With views on morality and ethics and things, you know, I want to, you know, I want to say, you know, I appreciate And I feel a certain fellowship to the work that you all are doing, even though we might have our differences.

And I remember a few Month uh a few weeks ago you said something that, you know, the uh the ultra Orthodox community, they have a hatred For what you're doing, I don't talk for everybody. And even if we might disagree, there's that I don't see any hatred that we have even in our own community. I know individuals who might share some of your ideas who have been embraced, and even some rabbis who have said that even though we disagree, it might not be certain things might that these particular people I'm not talking in general, but in certain cases might not even go into the realm of heresy or anything.

So it's not There's ev but certainly there's no hatred, there's no Disagreement there might be, but we can still be have fellowship and love. Rabbi Joseph, let me just jump in for one second. First, it's very kind of you to say that. And and I have the utmost respect for you calling in. Uh do you mind uh me asking what what uh Hasidic sect you're part of or would you rather not stay on the air?

I I I I I'm I'm more or less independent, you know. My my family is of a Hungarian background. Um Okay, so that could be Shotmore, but uh yeah, more or less not yeah, I'm not not not particularly, but uh And again, we there's disagreement, certainly, but I'm just I know one particular case in the nearby community by us where there was a question of someone and he was working in the culture restaurant and some of the rabbis said Oh, he can't, he's not allowed to supervise the culture because of certain beliefs. And a rabbi, a very, very strict rabbi who's from the same Hungarian type of background, also would consider himself more independent, but he said, well, This person keeps keeps the you know the laws he keeps the sabbath keeps everything And uh for him it wasn't really a theological issue, but maybe you know, other approaches or whatever it was along similar lines, but not exactly. This other rabbi who I respect very much, he said no, he should be allowed to he's he should be considered part of the community because he's He's keeping the law and he he believes in one God and so forth.

Anyway, that's not really what I meant it. Got it, got it.

Okay, yeah, I hope you don't mind me. Asking this only because, look, I have good friends who are ultra-Orthodox, some Hasidic, some non-Hasidic, but they're ultra-Orthodox. We've interacted for years, rabbis, I highly respect them, men of integrity. They've had mutual respect for me, but of course, they would consider my views heretical. The big issue that they would normally have.

Is that I want other Jewish people to believe in Jesus Yeshua as the Messiah.

So I actively share my faith and have materials on this.

So that's what, even though I'm considered by them a Tinoch Shinish Behavior, so I was like a child born in captivity and didn't really understand traditional Judaism, so I'm not as responsible, they'd still look at me. not just as a chote as a sinner, but a mahti and causing others to sin. Because of that, I've often gotten that hostility, which I have no problem with. In other words, in their view, I'm trying to take people away from Torah and take people away from the God of Israel. That's how they see it.

But listen, we've got a break. Stay right there, please, sir. And I know you wanted to comment on something else, but thank you for the call and for your kind words. And we are ultimately brothers in the midst of our differences. Stay right there, please.

Join Dr. Michael Brown along with Messianic Jewish pastor Scott Volk for a unique behind-the-scenes tour of Israel, February 25th through March 6th, 2017. Space is limited, so we're accepting applications on a first-come, first-served basis. For more information on the trip and to secure your spot, please visit our website at askdrbrown.org and click on the Israel Tour banner or call our office at 704-782-3760. Oh, God of burning, cleansing.

play. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. Welcome back to Thurly Jewish Thursday. Michael Brown, delighted to be with you. I really hope you can join me in Israel next year for the tour of a lifetime, the trip of a lifetime. Go to the website.

We're getting a great response already. It's next year, February 25th to March 6th, God willing. And now is the time to plan it, get your deposit, and go to ask Dr. Brown, A-S-K-D-R-Brown.org. Let me go back to the phones, Rabbi Joseph.

Thanks for holding through the break. There was something else you wanted to comment on, so please go ahead. Although I did I did want to clarify, you know, it was it's still I still do consider whatever your beliefs are to be heretical, but it still doesn't remove any love. And I see the fellowship, I look at you. I despite you being Jewish, I I have fellowship with uh with Gentile Christian pastors who, you know, I love very much, I'm friendly with, so it's not There's still um you know um where even you know Muslim Imams or whatever other faiths that all kinds of and atheists, all kinds of people I can have fellowship with, but So we can disagree, but still have respect and love for each other.

Um anyway, I w I was you know, uh y you you brought up about the subject of Changing their views on Israel. And you mentioned the Satmar Hasidic group and many other groups, and non-Hasidic groups, and many others. uh their view on Israel is is is rather you know radically different from that uh uh That you all hold. And I understand, to me, it makes even more sense for a Christian to be pro-Israel than for a Jew to be pro-Israel because. You know, in Christianity, they they look at things solo scriptura and they and they their approach to scripture I mean, you were saying that it's in the macro view, in a micro view, that the older generation who were more pro-Israel had more of a macro approach to scripture, seeing the big picture of scripture in prophecy.

And whereas younger people see it as you know, they're looking at the injustices and so forth. I mean, there are injustices done to Jews, to religious Jews, particularly in the Holy Land, and to Christians as well, and all different people going on now in the Holy Land. I mean, we still have a a religious devotion to the Holy Land, but Yeah, of course it's the fulfillment of prophecy. In general, in the end of Malachi, it says, Behold, I'll send you Elijah the prophet before the great and awesome day of the Lord.

So, meaning until that has happened, all of these things are on hold. How just because a bunch of people who were mostly atheists, but they happen to have Jewish ancestry, I mean, Judaism is a religion. It's not a race. It's not we Ruth was accepted even as a Moabite And and you know, her people are our people and she is totally part of our people. But, you know, those who are who don't believe, you know, who people who are atheists, people who are Totally in opposition to our faith and don't believe in the Bible, just because they happen to have Jewish blood, I mean, it really breaks.

down to something racist which scripturally Is that I don't see very sound, first of all. Let me do this. Second of all, you know, that I don't see the fulfillment of prophecy in this current. if anything if anything, if I would take a Christian term, it would be almost like a antichrist. Right, so I just want to take a minute just to explain to listeners that may not have followed some of this.

If you go back to the Zionist movement. And to the decades leading up to the birthing of the modern state of Israel, you would find many of the most orthodox rabbis around the world militantly opposing this idea of a Zionistic movement and a regathering of Israel, especially when most of the people involved were secular and not religious. And one of the leading voices in that was Rabbi Yoel Teitelbaum, who was the leader of the Sotmar Hasidim, so from Hungary and then rescued out of the Holocaust and then resettled in basically Williamsburg, Brooklyn, for the most part. And they and other rabbis strongly opposed the modern state of Israel, as do some groups today, the small group Nitere Karta, which is Aramaic for Keepers of the City. They've opposed it for several reasons.

One was that they said it's the Messiah who will regather the Jewish people, and for human beings to do it would be getting in the way of the work of the Messiah. The other was that the goal was that Israel Israel would not just be a physical place where Jewish people would be safe, but a place where the Torah would be observed.

So, their concern was that if you had an Israel that was a secular state or godless state, that that would hurt the Jewish people being raised there and bring reproach to Judaism. And then, that if you had an Israeli state before the Messianic era, that would increase anti-Semitism worldwide, and that therefore it would be divisive and negative.

So, those were the various reasons that Orthodox Jews had to. To say that they oppose the modern state of Israel, and many still do to this day. Would you say that's a fair representation of the major issue of the United States? I think you pretty much hit it on the head. I mean, we have biblical.

Sources for this we cite Song of Solomon and Isaiah and Jeremiah and many others as support for this as well as. I mean, you mentioned in brief that with increased anti Semitism worldwide, there is the fact of the matter is Israel is the most dangerous place for Jews uh uh since nineteen forty eight, more Jews have been killed in Israel than anywhere else.

So it even it it even almost smacks of anti-Semitism to support a a Zionist movement. I d I know that a lot of folks You know, meanwhile, Because, you know, and it's and I don't think it's only because of, you know, they want to see biblical prophecy come true. I know that most Christians who support Israel do so because. they love Israel and they love the Jewish people and they love God and they love the Bible. And I appreciate that and I I value that.

I'm not trying to devalue that, but I'm I'm also no, no, no, I I I appreciate it and and you're giving all of that. I'm just also saying that that, you know, other f you know, when um When when even many Christians I don't see them as deviating from scripture Because they're not accepting an apocalyptic view. You know, it's almost. you know, th this this, you know, very uh literalist uh approach to to prophecy is it it's it's it it can be very dangerous it could put lives in danger and i i've just i've just got to jump in i've just got to jump in because sir because we have uh we have a break Coming up, and I have to go in. I work as a chaplain, I have to go in.

All right, if you stay there for 30 more seconds, though, just so I can say this, of course, many Christians would say, Yes, God is bringing back Israel in unbelief and in sin, and there will have mercy and demonstrate his glory. And that's why we could see all the negative, yet God bringing positive out of it. I just want to ask you one question, and you can answer Betsy, our call screener. First, thank you for calling. Much appreciated, and I honor and respect.

The fact that you called. I was just wondering if you ever read my book, The Real Kosher Jesus. Just curious if you've read it. If not, oh, Howard, sorry. Howard's in.

My bad.

Sorry about that, Howard. I'd love to send your free copy. I don't know if you could even receive it. But if so, just stay there 30 more seconds. Howard will come on.

And if you'd like a free copy of my book, The Real Culture Jesus, I'd just love to get your impression on it. As a Hasidic rabbi.

So stay there for another moment, and Howard will be right with you. Thank you, sir, for the call. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 Truth. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thanks so much for joining us on the line of fire. What a delightful conversation with a Hasidic rabbi.

And I appreciate him being a regular listener. If you are listening right now as a Jewish person that doesn't believe in Jesus Yeshua, please visit my Jewish website, realmessiah, realmessiah.com. Watch the videos there. Look at the articles. And if you'd like a free mini book as a Jewish seeker, there's a place where you can fill that out.

866-34TRUTH. Let me go back to the phones, and this time we'll go to Greenbelt, Maryland. James, thanks for holding. Welcome to the line of fire. Oh, Dr.

Brown, thank you for taking my call. You bet. I greatly appreciate your program, so I hope you can keep it up forever. Yeah. Anyway, I do I'd like to comment on the fact of why younger people the younger Christians don't stand behind Israel so much.

I think it's very much you've nailed it really is that it's what they're taught They're not really everybody has an opinion. You know, every every person on the face of the earth, and especially young people, have an opinion about everything. And you know, like when I was a child, I was raised in the Catholic ri faith, and I went to Catholic school until I was in fifth grade. And they actually taught us that the Jews killed Jesus. They taught us that right out of the scriptures, that it was the Jews.

They used the instrument of the Romans. to crucify him, but they were the ones that instead of the gutting that Yeah. And at the same time, I used to watch on the show, on the PBS and different channels, they would show what happened in the Holocaust. And I thought it was horrible what happened. I just couldn't imagine that humanity stood by and allowed that to happen.

And then I later learned about the Catholic Faith as a whole did very little to try to help or hide Shoes or try to save them or anything like that, that the church itself, especially. And I was appalled at that at the same time. But yet, if you had asked me who crucified Jesus, I would have just parented right back to Jesus. And, you know, that's what it is. And I think that any Christian, young, old, or indifferent, I don't care what age.

If you if Do you want to take a time to read the scriptures and then look at the historical right for the Jews to own, occupy, live in? that land to be theirs. I mean, it's ancient history. Yeah, but see, here's the thing, and of course, I agree with you, but if you are looking at. A younger generation that's maybe looking more at issues of relationship, and they're looking at story and narrative.

more than fact and history. Then they're going to, here's what they're going to see. We'll give the larger history. We'll explain the Jewish right to be in the land. We'll explain the history of radical Islam not welcoming Jewish people, wanting to destroy the modern state of Israel to this moment.

We can lay that out. But the younger person is going to say, Yeah, but what about this, you know, this Palestinian kid who has to suffer? What about this? And what about that? In other words, they'll, or Israel, you know, the military overreacted or look at this harsh situation.

So again, they'll look at this, and this is the best way to illustrate it. They'll say, Why is there a wall? in Bethlehem separating families and and keeping the Palestinians on one side of this wall. Why is that there? That's not fair.

That's not right. And they'll talk to the families and they'll talk to Palestinian Christians and they'll say how it's not right and they'll rehearse all the problems.

Okay. Uh The reason the wall is there was to keep snipers and murderers out.

so they wouldn't kill innocent Israeli men, women, and children. That's the bigger picture. The bigger picture is the wall, and it's mainly a security fence, but about 3% of it is wall. That's up to keep murderers out. And in certain places, you need a wall to keep snipers out.

And that has reduced the murders by, what, 99% since it was put up? But if you look at the micro, why is this family suffering, this Palestinian family suffering, evil Israel? And then again, you have this world climate of Jew hatred, anti-Semitism, and a lot of propaganda. Often it's hard to get the story straight. Hey, James, thanks for weighing in.

I appreciate it. 866-34-TRUTH. Change the world. Change the world. It's fire we want.

For fire we please. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown. Thank you all. I dig it down. I'm not sure if I can do it. Welcome, welcome to the line of fire.

This is Michael Brown on this thoroughly Jewish Thursday. And again, what a delight to have a wide range of listeners. Followers of Jesus who agree with my views on Israel, followers of Jesus who don't agree with my views on Israel, Jews who don't agree with my views on Jesus, Muslims, atheists, others. I'm so glad to have all of you in the listening audience. And I hope that you feel that if you have a disagreement with me or a different perspective that you want to share, that you have a way to do it.

that you have an open door to do it. Look, I'm not going to be hostile to you. You might be hostile to me because you're very upset about something, but I'm not going to be hostile. And within the parameters of live talk radio, I'll do my best to give you a fair hearing. 866-3666.

three four truth we go back to the phones in wilmington delaware john welcome to the line of fire How you doing, Dr. Brown? Doing very well, thanks.

So I've The last couple of years, I've been reading The New Perspective on Paul from N.T. Wright and from James Dunn. First, are you familiar with that? Oh, yeah, of course. I mean, it's hard to.

To be involved in any level with biblical scholarship without being very familiar with the, I mean, very familiar. I don't mean that I've read, say, the last 4,000 or 5,000 pages written in the last few years by scholars like N.T. Wright and James Dunn, because they put out some massive stuff. But overall, the new perspective on Paul, going back to E.P. Saunders and his influential writing and how it's developed.

Sure, I've followed it with interest for a few decades now.

So, do you think like 'cause you know, when you read it. He was talking about like the Jewish markers, the Sabbath, the work that being the works of the law. Not that God. Was against any type of morality, especially from the law. Do you agree with that?

Do you see that? Uh Yes and no. And let me just explain something for our listeners. The general understanding of Of the conflict in the New Testament between faith and the law, between grace and works, has been understood by evangelicals for generations in ways that, say, the Reformation understood also, and that Judaism had developed into a somewhat legalistic religion, and that this was now God's answer to the legalism, and that it was life in the Spirit by faith. and that the law itself was somehow an obstacle.

And other scholars challenge that in particular over the last 30 years or so. And said, no, it was between a legalistic righteousness, in other words, a wrong use of the law, not the law itself, more this idea of being righteous through keeping certain aspects of the law. That's what was the issue. And I think what's happened, John. And Stephen Westerholm has some great summaries of the positions and does say that the Lutheran reading was not as far off as some might think.

I think a few things happened. One, there was a caricature of Judaism. as if it was this total legalistic spiritless faith And that is exaggerated. There's an exaggeration on the other side that this new Jesus faith was totally. Um So, in the spirit that it had almost no connection with Israel and the Jewish people and the Sabbath and things like that.

And that's obviously an exaggeration as well. The reality is that the Sinai covenant brought death. Why? Because of the failure of the people to keep it, as Hebrews 8 emphasizes. That the people of Israel failed to keep the Sinai covenant because of human sin.

And therefore, as Paul writes in Romans 3, that the law was given to silence every mouth. In other words, when you read through the five books of Moses, what you end up seeing is the sinfulness of Israel. in in the midst of a holy Law given by a holy God. And that's why Paul says also in Romans 3 that faith doesn't nullify the law, it establishes it. In other words, it plays its proper role.

It reveals the holiness of God and the guilt of humanity and our need for a Savior. And now the new and better covenant comes where the law is written on our hearts and we receive eternal forgiveness of sins. That doesn't mean though. that keeping the law itself was a bad thing. W.D.

Davies began to explore that in Paul and Rabbinic Judaism, and he began to open that theme up: that Paul certainly continued to live as a Jew. as did the other apostles. The issue was either putting this on Gentiles and saying you must be circumcised and obey the law of Moses in order to be saved. Or to somehow glory in one's legal righteousness. Those were the failures.

But as new creations in the Messiah, both Jew and Gentile, Paul said in 1 Corinthians 7: if you're saved circumcised, don't become uncircumcised. In other words, if you're saved as a Jew, don't become a Gentile. If you save as a Gentile, Don't try to become a Jew. If you're saved uncircumcised, don't be circumcised.

So I think on a certain level that the new perspectives have brought some correction. But if they've thrown the baby out with the bath water, that's where I would have a difference.

So to me it's more a matter of nuances. And Dunn's point, which he gets into, of course, in his Romans commentary, that you're talking more about Jewish markers, which would be Sabbath observance and dietary laws. There's a lot of truth to that, but that may oversimplify it.

Now, listen, I am not a Pauline scholar, meaning I haven't read all of this literature and kept up with it. Or mastered everything Paul's written in Greek, but I am a very serious student of Paul and of these issues for years. That's my take and my perspective.

So, much value. Great insight, but You just have to nuance things rather than go from one extreme view to the other. Does that make sense in terms of what you're reading for you to be able to process that? Yeah, yeah, I it just you know, it I just think that like when the their point is that I like I listened to a debate with James White and NT Wright, and James Wright said, Well, in our tradition and and and NT Wright, you know, they were kind of talking about the Catholic tradition and how everybody goes back to their tradition and it you know, people have been hostile towards it because it goes against the normal Reformation tradition. Um Normal, I guess, for reform thought.

Right, and that's where that, and by the way, that was a debate about justification by faith. And I would say that NT Wright there is not totally representative of the new perspective of Paul. That's maybe one of his own unique points that he makes where he seems to read justification differently. And I'd be very much on Dr. White's side in that.

But as a Jewish believer in Jesus, Even though, yes, I'm an evangelical and I hold to fundamental evangelical doctrine, I don't see myself. fitting perfectly into a particular Christian faith tradition, meaning I identify as Protestant, I identify as Reformed, I identify as this or that, because there's something in me that says that we were there before a lot of these traditions developed, and we're trying to recover what was the mindset and the lifestyle of Paul, the other apostles. Of course, everyone's trying to do that. The Catholics, the Greek Orthodox, the Protestants, we're all saying we're going back to the real apostolic faith. But if it doesn't recognize Jewish roots, and that's my biggest issue with an NT right.

that he seems to share some of the typical British evangelical or British Christian almost hostility towards Israel. or negative views on Israel. Or not seeing a future for national Israel. In his reading, for example, of Romans 11. Again, he's brilliant, he's widely read, he makes compelling arguments, but I think he's missing something there.

Have you read either of Stephen Woesterholm's surveys of the issues on New Perspectives? No, I have not. Yeah, I would highly recommend it. Stephen Westerholm. W-E-S-T-E-R-H-O-L-M.

His earlier book was on Israel's law and the church's faith. Get his more recent one on Paul and the interpreters. He does a great job of summarizing the various views, and then, as a Pauline scholar himself, Lays out his views. Again, he says, Hey, it turns out the Lutheran reading wasn't all that wrong, but it's the caricatures of Judaism and the caricatures of kind of a rootless Christianity. Those were the things that were erroneous in my view.

So that's my perspective on the new perspectives. Hey, John, thank you very much for the call. I do appreciate it. 866-34TRUTH. All right.

We've got a break.

So, I don't want to cut you off with a call, but thanks so much for your patience and holding. I want to get back to as many calls as I can right on the other side of the break. Uh How about this news? Uh Check this out. As reported by Daniel Greenfeld, Palestinians attempt to appropriate the Star of David.

as a Muslim symbol. This is on frontpage.com. The whole Palestinian identity, he writes, is a parasitic entity that can only exist in terms related to its hostility towards the indigenous Jewish inhabitants. In other words, if you claim to have a Palestinian identity, then. You are saying you are the true people there and the Jews cannot be there.

The desperate attempts, he writes, to appropriate Jewish identity has now led Fatak, the core terrorist organization behind the Palestinian state, to claim that the Jewish star of David is really An Islamic symbol. Never surprises me.

Well, I do get surprised, but I'm not surprised if you can understand the latest craziness. coming from Radical Islam. We'll be right back. God of burning, cleansing flesh. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome back to the line of fire on this Thurley Jewish Thursday, 866-34TRUTH. Taking your Jewish-related questions today, let's go over to Boston.

AJ, welcome to the line of fire. Thank you. You're welcome. Uh I just had a question about um I always wonder what the difference is there a differen or is there a difference between Orthodox Judaism and like Hasidic ultra-Orthodox Judaism. I was wondering if maybe there was a difference.

Uh there is and there isn't. Uh let me explain. Ultra-Orthodox Hasidic Jews are ultra-Orthodox. but there are other ultra Orthodox Jews who are not Hasidic.

So, uh Hasidic Jews would be considered ultra-Orthodox, not Orthodox.

So they would be the most observant, the most traditional, the most devout. In that sense.

So they would be at the right wing of orthodoxy. But the Hasidic movement begins in the 1700s under a leader known as the Besht, the Baal Shem Tov, Israel Baal Shem Tov. He Broke away from what he felt was the rigid ultra-orthodoxy of his day. And the hyper-intellectualism of it, and preached a simpler faith where a shepherd just crying out to God in the field was as pious as a learned rabbi studying the rabbinic text all day.

So he broke away from many of the traditions. And was reported to be a miracle worker and things like that. And a chasid just means a pious one, a saintly one. They were militantly rejected by the leading rabbis of their day as a heretical movement within Judaism because they were breaking with the traditions and the customs. They were saying, you know, if you don't pray at the exact prayer times, but you're praying from your heart, it's okay.

So that was looked at as serious violation. And those who opposed them were called the misnagdim, that means the opponents. And that was the great bulk. Of the ultra-Orthodox Jewish community at that time. And pretty much you were secular.

This was the days before Reform Judaism, when there was such a thing as liberal Judaism. Either you were secular or you were very religious. You didn't have a lot of. Of room between those. Excuse me.

You didn't have other many other options between those.

So the Hasidic Jews were a movement that began within ultra-Orthodox Judaism, but then as it gained traction, As it gained more and more converts within it, and as it became more and more mainstream in terms of its practices. Then it became more and more accepted. As a legitimate branch of Orthodox Judaism, and then it broke off into different sects, a Lubavitch sect or a Satmar sect. A lot of the sects were named primarily based on the cities in Eastern Europe. Where they were based.

And to this day, you have large numbers of Hasidic Jews, excuse me, large numbers of ultra-Orthodox Jews who are Hasidic. And they maintain certain teaching and practices, and large numbers of ultra-Orthodox Jews who are not Hasidic. You say, what would the main differences be?

Well, they all believe in the same holy scriptures. They all believe in the same holy rabbinic writings. They all believe that there has been an oral law given by Moses and passed on through the generations. They all believe in the importance of Jewish tradition. But Hasidic Jews have as a distinctive the Ghebbe.

The grand rabbi, who's like the master of the Hasidic court, and a special, almost an intermediary between them and God, a special, he's considered a holy one, a real saint, a miracle worker, and they really revolve in many ways around that leader, even if the leader is now deceased. They still revolve around that leader's teachings. And in some ways, there is more of an emphasis on mysticism and things like that, but to the outward eye. You wouldn't recognize any difference. In other words, you'd see ultra-Orthodox Jews, you'd see the men with the black coats and the long beards, you'd see them faithfully keeping all the commandments, you'd see them getting up early in the morning praying, you'd see them strictly observing the Sabbath and all the dietary laws.

And yet, within the communities, there would be differences. And the major Hasidic groups today, the Sotmar, remain large in number, but they don't proselytize other Jews. The Lubavitch Hasidim, based in in Brooklyn, New York. Their grand rabbi died in 1994 at the age of 92. They were expecting him to be revealed as the Messiah, Menachem Mendel Schneerson.

When he died, there was great shock that went through the community, but they've actually grown and become much bigger since his death. And they have what they call shluchim emissaries that are sent out around the world to bear their message and to try to reach other Jews, secular Jews, non-religious Jews, to bring them over to Judaism, to traditional Judaism.

So they do more aggressive outreach. You'll see them on college campuses and things like that. Within Israel, and there are other groups, I haven't mentioned them all. Another prominent group are called the Breslov Hasidim. They go back to teachings of a rabbi named Rabbi Nachman of Breslov, who died in his 30s, but his teachings have been passed on.

And revered. They are characterized by joy and celebration. You'll often see the men dressed in white dancing on the streets and chanting.

Now, some of them you've got this fringe group that gets high and does this as well, but the others are very traditional and they try to recruit. Especially young Jews to follow the teachings of Rabbi Nachman and to become traditional Jews.

So that's in a nutshell, a big nutshell, the answer to the question. By the way, AJ, if you want to study this more, my book, 60 Questions Christians Ask About Jewish Beliefs and Practices, will lay this out as well in terms of what the Hasidic Jews believe and who they are, their origins. That's some of the questions I answer in the book, 60 Questions Christians Ask About Jewish Beliefs and Practices. All right, friends. Our phone lines are jammed right now.

But If you can stay on the line. I'm going to continue with Thurley Jewish Thursday on the other side of the break. All right. And as I do that, we'll get to your calls early in the broadcast.

So, if you can stay on the line, even if you're going to be losing me on the radio, you can continue listening as you're on hold. And I'll gladly get your calls on the other side of the break. Be sure, friends, to check out our resource offer this week. Baker Books, so one of the biggest Christian publishers, has now taken over the distribution of the Tree of Life Bible. That's how much they believe in the project.

And they've put out a beautiful, slimline edition. I was really surprised when I saw how nice it was. And of course, it's high quality in every way. We have it as a special resource offer this week with a free DVD when you order.

So, great day to do it on Thursday, Jewish Thursday. Go to askdrbrown.org, A-S-K-D-R-Brown.org. And you'll see it right there on the special resource offer. And while you're there on the website, be sure to check out our Israel trip. You say, man, I'd love to go, but I can't afford it.

Hey, maybe the Lord will open up a way. You can certainly pray about it. And if you want to go and planning on it, get your deposit in now because before you know it, we'll be flying to Israel. My bottom line today: the God who scattered the lost sheep of the house of Israel is actively regathering, both naturally and spiritually.

So why is it that the younger generation of Christians today, evangelical Christians, don't have the same heart for Israel that their parents have had? Um It's time for The Line of Fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and President of Fire School of Ministry. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH.

That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Oh yes, it is Thoroughly Jewish Thursday, your Thoroughly Jewish host. Thoroughly pleased to be with you today.

Boy, had a great first hour. Including a call from a Hasidic rabbi who is as peace-loving and Gracious, as you can imagine.

So, an ultra-Orthodox Jewish rabbi who believes my views are heretical and yet welcomes me as a Jewish brother. We had a fascinating conversation. Touched on theological issues and all kinds of other things with other callers. And I do want to continue to explore this theme of why the younger generation of evangelical believers does not seem to have the same heart, the same solidarity with Israel, with the modern state of Israel that my generation has. If you've got a Jewish-related question you'd like to ask, or you You have some of your own thoughts.

Maybe you're a young person, you love the Lord, but you question why we should stand with Israel so strongly, or why we believe America should stand with Israel so strongly. You have an issue with that, a question? I'd love to hear from you as well. 866-348-7884. I think it's important to say this, and I'm going to get to calls very quickly today in this hour on the air.

I think it's important that. I explain. my own journey in terms of standing strongly for Israel. You say well you're Jewish, of course you do.

Well, yeah, but but hang on. I'm a Jew who believes in Jesus. And I've been involved with many Christians who have different views over the years.

So when I came to faith, I I was very pleased to see how the the church I was in really had a heart for Israel. And they rejoiced when there was a victory for Israel, war. It seemed like Israel was in trouble. And they say, hey, God, that's the apple of God's eye. Those are God's people.

He preserves them and he keeps them. And they seem to have a special love for me as a Jewish believer in Jesus. That was meaningful to me. When a rabbi talked to me about The uh Anti-Semitic history in the church gave me a book to read about it. It was foreign to me.

At that time, saved in a little Italian Pentecostal church, I didn't have a lot of perspective on church history. It's kind of like we read the Bible and went straight back to the Bible. That's how we viewed it.

So I didn't know much about Catholicism and Lutheranism and these other things.

So I was sorry to see this church history stuff, but all those guys were foreign to me. I didn't look at things realistically enough to say, okay, if those were great leaders in the church, why did some of them seem to be so anti-Semitic? Those are valid questions, and of course, I've sought to address those over the decades. But the church I was in after the first six years in the Lord, I began to question some of the things I believed on a number of issues and was in another church now. And this church did not just have the same gut-level stance with Israel.

It wasn't hostile, but it wasn't the same level as the first church I was saved in. And the more literature I began to read, I began to question maybe my view of a literal millennium or a little return to the land is wrong. And come on, you know, if you're going to say that Israel's return to the land, does that mean that we have reconstructed the ancient Moabites and the ancient Philistines and the ancient Ammonites and all these other groups are going to be there? Because they're mentioned in these prophetic books as well. And I began to question it and almost got hostile to the view.

In fact, for a period of time, I really did question it strongly. It was for me based on scripture, not the fact that I'm a Jew. But based on scripture that I've concluded that it is God Himself who restored the Jewish people back to the land of Israel, and that it is God who is working to maintain the Jewish people in the land of Israel despite our many shortcomings and our many sins. 866-34TRUTH. I'm going straight to your calls when we get back.

Change the world. Change the world. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Can be my honey. And then we're not selling my Welcome to Thurly Jewish Thursday. Thank you, Paul Wilbur, for singing us into this segment.

This is Michael Brown. You've got Jewish-related calls. We'll do our best to take them today. And I do want to weigh in a little bit more on why it is that so many younger evangelicals do not have the same heart for Israel that the older evangelical generation has. 866-34Truth.

Let's go to Barhead, Alberta, and Canada. Our friend Jonathan, welcome back to the line of fire. Hey, how's it going today? Very well, thank you. That's good.

I got a question before getting to my comments. Um Concerning the Passover. Do you think that Jesus uh on the the tenth day of Nisan, would he have gone and picked out A lamb, a and then waited the four days and then at sundown he would have Um slaughtered it and then cooked it over a fire and and ate of it. Like I think the last supper type of thing?

Well, he he would have done what all other Jews did that were observing the Torah at that time.

So growing up, He would have done that with his family. Whatever part of his family was there, they would have done that together as much as possible. And then there's the question: Is that what happens? That in terms of the chronology? Of his death and the time of the selection of the lambs, and then the time of the Passover meal.

How does that work out? I mean, that's you know, the Last Supper, that's all. hotly debate it uh because of Challenges reconciling the way John presents it in the Synoptic Gospels. But as far as the lifestyle, that would have been what was done. Yeah, all ancient Israelites that were observing the Torah would have done that.

Jesus certainly would have done that up until that time in his life. At the time of his crucifixion, no, I don't believe he was now selecting a lamb. He was going to be the lamb, but his disciples would have been involved with that because that would have been the family setting where they partook together. Oh, okay.

Okay, cool. Um yeah, getting to my comment there. Um So thinking about how Israel and the Palestinians have a constant conflict going on. And I agree with their settlement that Israel put on within the West Bank and stuff because if it's their land, they gained it through Um through victories and wars. then they should have the right to put settlements wherever they really want.

But Um As for the Palestinians, like I I heard of the ones they solutions that they would absorb all the Palestinians And the problem with that is obviously that Oh. If they did not, then there'd be more Arabs than Jews and so then the democratic policy wouldn't work. But what if they absorb them just slowly.

So let's just say like they have a lottery 5,000 people a month. get absorbed into Israel. And this way, they're able to control the amount of Palestinians they absorb and eventually get to having a one state solution. Yeah, the logistic problems with that, Jonathan, would be first the impossibility. of absorbing part by part by part that now comes under Israeli sovereignty.

And you just have a thousand things that would get in the way of that happening. And then ultimately The other issue would be that if you're looking at total numbers. that you'd still have the the problem in the end. See, the the whole issue that you alluded to with the founding of Israel and David Ven-Gur and others went back to it, they were not trying to have a state that was free of Arabs, they were not called Palestinians then, free of Arabs, but rather just to make sure they had a substantial Jewish majority so it could be a Jewish state. Just like, for example, in America, through the centuries, it was basically Christian in practice.

Uh so the vast majority of the people profess Christianity. And therefore, if there was going to be a day when businesses were shut down, it was Sunday versus Saturday. And if there were major holidays we'd be off from school, it would be Christmas and Easter and things like that. And yet, a traditional Jew could still live as a traditional Jew without a problem. And a Muslim in our midst could live as a Muslim, and an atheist could live as an atheist.

So, for the modern state of Israel, the issue was a substantial Jewish majority, not a land free of Arabs.

So, those arguing for a one-state solution, and there are prominent Israeli thinkers who advocate it, and some of my Messianic Jewish friends do as well, what they say is that even though demographically, The birth rate of Palestinians is higher. than that of secular Israelis. Because of the settlers They tend to be more religious, and the religious Jews are having more kids. That you'll still be able to have a Jewish majority. And therefore you could have one state.

And then everybody votes. Those who identify as Palestinian Muslims vote side by side with atheistic Israelis and ultra-Orthodox Israelis. They all vote, and then they Whoever gets elected gets elected. But if some said, Oh, so the national anthem, Hatikva You know, the hope, the national anthem.

So that's going to be the national anthem of the Palestinians who consider the founding of the modern state of Israel to be a disaster, al-Nakba, as they refer to it. There are many problems with it, but a two-state solution Many have said it's been proven over and over again. If you read Caroline Glick's book on a one-stage solution, she lays out at the beginning why it's hopeless and it can't work. Because of radical Islam, Ultimately, radical Islam is only at home with the destruction of the Jewish state.

So that still is the issue. And the other consensus is: let Gaza be Gaza. That's just his own place, and under Hamas, whoever. But we're talking about the West Bank, the Palestinians living there, becoming one state. with Israel.

uh with shared government and leadership. Uh it's it's a pipe dream. It's a pipe dream. Could it happen? I would say any solutions are temporary and that the ultimate solution is only going to be when the Messiah returns.

But, Jonathan, I appreciate your thoughtful proposal. 866-348-7884. We go to Wolburn, Massachusetts. Susan, thanks for holding over from the last hour. Welcome to the line of fire.

Hi, Doctor Byrne. How are you? Doing very well, thanks.

Okay, I just have two things I wanted to mention. Uh First, let me say that Every time I hear your voice on the radio and you talk about your unconditional love for people created in the image of God, it just Brings me back.

So what The real message of Christ is one of the most important things. you just have that Um love for for humans and uh 'cause sometimes I get so angry at what's happening to Christians. Um our country in general. But anyways, I just want to say that because you you ground me when I hear you say that. You just unrelenting message of unconditional love.

and your love for your people. I was online and I wasn't looking for this particular Website, but it it said Jewish genealogy in Sicily. My mother and her family from Sicily. Apparently there was a there is a historian Okay, say your name. Yeah, go ahead, please.

Okay. Jacqueline Alio. She's a historian. She lives in Sicily. She studied the people of Sicily and apparently there was a settlement of Jewish people in Palermo It's it's western Sicily, it's up by the ocean of the Mediterranean Sea, I should say.

So I just wanted to let you know that there was there was a population and there was it was conquered by several different nationalities. But I when the Spanish Inquisition came in, they drove out the Jewish people. They either told them to convert to Cathol Ibu must have been Catholicism or to get to leave.

So they either converted or they left.

So I don't know how many Yeah, I'm looking, you know, I've been to Sicily many times, God willing, in two weeks. Be traveling there with our Oldest grandchild, or granddaughter who's 15, and her cousin who's 16.

So be bringing them over and gonna be in Catania, which is in Sicily. And that's one of the places where it's reported that there have been Jewish populations for centuries. And just looking at an article about this, arguments as to how long there's been a Jewish presence in Sicily, going back over 2,000 years or at least 1,600 years, Palermo being one of the key cities. But then, yeah, because of Church wars and different things like that. Beginning in the 1300s, there has been persecution of Jews in Sicily and even expulsion.

Of the Jews of Sicily. And Yeah, there's a lot of fascinating and often painful history there, Susan.

So maybe I'll even have conversations with some of my friends as to what they know. What traditions have they heard? And of course, there are still Jews in Rome and other parts of Italy. There have been prominent populations there through the centuries as well. But, Susan, thanks for the call.

And because I'm about to go back to Sicily, it gets my interest raised in looking into that a bit more. And thank you. For the very kind words. The love that's in my heart is just a reflection of the extraordinary love that God has for us. And as much as he's grieved by what his earthly creation does, his heart beats with great love to see every human being redeemed.

Thank you for the kind words and the call. Shit. Change the world. Angel World Give us strength to always do what's right. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Ladies and gentlemen. The people of Israel pray for peace.

But our hopes and the world's hopes for peace are in danger. Because everywhere we look, militant Islam is on the march. The sounds of radical Islam, the voice of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu. Why isn't it clear to the whole world? that the plague of radical Islam which wants to destroy so many civilizations.

which wants to force people to subjugation or conversion. which is guilty of all kinds of atrocities and terror attacks. Why is it that people can't understand that Israel is surrounded by this and in a battle for survival? and that Israel would be in much more friendly relationships with its neighbors if its neighbors were not trying to kill them. If every day someone from your neighborhood was trying to break into your home and kill you or kill your family or kidnap you or kidnap your family or blow your house up or blow your car up or something like that, would you be faulted?

for putting up extra security. Would ye be faulted For not always having the friendliest relationship towards those who want to kill you. It's a pretty simple thing. I've said it for years and it remains true. Prime Minister Netanyahu said it, others have said it.

It may be an oversimplification, but it's fundamentally true. That if the Palestinians put down their weapons, there'd be no more war. Who are the Palestinians with weapons? Primarily radical Muslims. That's who we're talking about in particular.

If they would put down their weapons, there'd be no more war. If Israel would put down its weapons, there'd be no more Israel. This is Thurly Jewish Thursday. Michael Brown, delighted to be with you. Let's take some more Jewish-related calls.

We go to Richmond, Virginia. Rudy, welcome to the line of fire. Hey, how you doing, Mr. I got a quick question. Basically, I want to know why most Jewish people are like rich and then they also get stereotyped in the whole uh or like blessed or abundant, you know, they have a lot.

Um they get stereotyped in being singy or uh you know, very cheap and stuff. And then, you know, a lot of y then God gives a lot of celebrities a lot of um A big, good pedestal, you know, like Woody Allen, who is a Jewish, uh, Harrison Ford, and so on, Jake O'Hall, Jack Black, all these other Jewish. Uh, it seems to be a lot of uh Celebrities that have that background, so on. Yeah, so why the Jews seem to be so disproportionately influential? And things like that.

I have a video where I actually talked about that. If you go to my Real Messiah website, realmessiah.com, and type in world changers. Where I talk about Jewish prominence from Nobel scientists to Hollywood Entertainment. To economy, to negative things like communism and world ideologies that are hostile to negative, why so much Jewish influence? There are a few answers to the question, Rudy.

It's an overgeneralization to think of the majority of Jews or all Jews being financially rich. We're blessed. In point of fact, through much of Jewish history, Jews have been impoverished. Middle Eastern Jews for centuries have been fairly impoverished. The Yemenite Jews and others.

within the land of Israel today, a substantial minority of Israeli Jews live beneath the poverty line. in Israel.

So that's somewhat of a misnomer. But there's certainly great Jewish influence. And disproportionately so, be it in the political realm or the media realm or the economic realm. And one reason would be that there has been a tremendous emphasis on education. in the Jewish world.

Part of that goes back to Judaism. and the rigors of rabbinic study. And the importance of teaching these things to your children, passing them on.

So there's been a high rate of literacy. and a great emphasis on education. And that certainly helps in many ways, but does that explain a Woody Allen? Or does that explain a a Karl Marx Or does that explain another influential Jew? In other words, there seems to be something more.

than just education behind it. And others would say, well, to the extent Jews have kept the laws of Moses, they've been blessed, or to the extent they followed biblical principles, they've been blessed. And I'm sure that's one reason that many of these leading rabbis live such a long life is that they follow many godly, wise principles that God has laid out in the scriptures, even if they themselves are not rightly connected to God through Jesus the Messiah. But as I've studied and looked at it, Rudy, I've concluded that there's something larger. You know, you can ask about, well, why are you stingy?

Or, you know, you have that negative expression. You know, he tried to jew me down. But to be candid with you, I found that many people who are good with money can be a little tight sometimes. And when I was a commissioned salesman for years, I don't want to mention specific communities, but there were communities that I didn't like to work in, and I don't mean Jewish, because I knew. that ethnically these people were famous for being really careful with their money.

And I found it very, very difficult to make a sale with them, even though they were wealthy. In fact, we would often say the wealthier the community, the worse we're going to do in selling our particular product.

So I would not want to point a negative figure in a Jewish direction there. But from what I can tell, Rudy. There is an aspect in which God has called Jewish people to be world changers. There's an aspect in which We have been raised up by God for better or worse. to be a light to the world.

When I say for worse, I mean that there's still this anointing of influence on us.

Someone has argued, and some have argued, that the three most influential figures of the 20th century, in terms of the way that century went, were Albert Einstein. Karl Marx and Sigmund Freud.

So from the 1800s into the 1900s, Their thought, their life, their contribution had a massive influence on the 20th century. They're all Jews, and none of them were religious Jews. And if you look, say, in the entertainment industry, you've got guys like Howard Stern and Jerry Springer, they're Jewish. You know, and when you look, say, at leading atheists, You've got men like Sam Harris, you have a higher percentage Of leading Jewish atheists just as per the population than non-Jewish atheists.

So it seems that there's something on us. to be influential. In our calling out by God, there's also much accountability, which is why we've been so scattered and suffered so much through the years, because we haven't been rightly aligned with God and rightly following His purposes, listening to His prophets, obeying His laws. Following his Messiah. as a result of which we've suffered a lot.

But if you look at Israel today, disproportionate number of medical developments, scientific developments, agricultural developments, and many others, disproportionate for that small population compared to the rest of the world. That continues to be something upon us as Jews, even if we're not religious, even if we're more secular. And that's what I get into in world changers. And then ultimately, is it a surprise? That Jesus is the most influential Jew who ever lived.

And that men like Moses and Paul, who've had world influence, And hundreds of millions of people are Jews or Israelites as well. It makes sense. In that respect, thanks for the call and the question. Again, the video where I address that is called World Changers. It's the very first one that I did on our Think It Through TV series that aired on the Inspiration Network, airs to this day internationally.

All right, we'll be right back with more of your questions and more insights. Hope I can bring you. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown. Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRU. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome, welcome to our Thoroughly Jewish Thursday broadcast. Your Jewish-related calls, warmly welcomed, 866-348-7-884.

Uh, yeah, let's just play this to play it. Joey Grab clip number 11, Bernie Sanders. posted this on his Facebook Page So, uh Yeah, let's just listen to what he has to say. He's our most prominent Jewish presidential candidate ever, and he happens to be a very secular, liberal Jew with. A mentality towards modern Israel that reflects what many young people feel about Israel today.

It's much more of a secular humanistic perspective and hence. Will be more hostile towards Israel than those who have a more biblical viewpoint. This is what he has to say. It's a more broad statement, but listen to what he has to say. In my faith, you know, it maybe gets back to the Bible, in that you would like.

other people to do to you as you do to them, that we are one world, one people. that I am impacted negatively if there are hungry children in America. that I just don't think what human life is about is, you know, making Billions and billions of dollars of ignoring the reality around me. I think what we have right now. Is an ideology out there that says, you know what life is about?

You've got to make as much money as you can, and you've got to push down everybody around you. And if kids go hungry and people sleep at Analyst Breed, not your problem. All that you have to worry about is yourself. I would not like to live a life without belief. I really would not.

That is the voice of presidential candidate Bernie Sanders. And on the one hand, what he's saying is very biblical. In terms of care for your neighbor, love your neighbor as yourself. Care for your fellow man. The prophets had no problem with people being rich.

The apostles had no problem with people being rich if they weren't greedy. If they did not look at their material possessions almost as gods that they served. And if They did not get rich at the expense of the poor. if they did not abuse and exploit the needy. That's where the prophets spoke up.

And in that respect, Bernie Sanders is saying something more. In other words, he's not just saying It's wrong to exploit others to be rich, but almost It's wrong for you to be rich when others have nothing. Whereas a biblical mentality would be, God may have blessed you with wealth, but be generous with it. And don't put your trust in earthly riches, put your trust in God, as opposed to divide everything up so it's equal for everybody. and and you're not allowed to be rich.

That that was never a biblical perspective. But it's interesting that the same kind of humanistic viewpoint which includes justice which includes mercy, which includes care for the needy, But fails to factor in the larger God perspective. That can often be what gets someone to be anti-Israel. In other words, they fail to see that God has brought the Jewish people back to the land. They fail to see that there is a demonic effort to wipe out the Jewish people.

and to get them out of Jerusalem, and to destroy them out from the land. They failed to see that demonic element. They fail to recognize the demonic, destructive elements of radical Islam. And then they just say, well, why can't Israel be nicer to the Palestinians? By all means.

If Israel mistreats the Palestinians, if Israel is unjust to the Palestinians, if Israel does evil in any way, Israel needs to be held to account. And as friends of Israel and the Jewish people, we need to hold them to account. But unless you factor in the other issues, you'll end up with a very one-sided, distorted view of things. And that's where the danger really lies. And that's what happens with a lot of younger evangelical believers.

They have a heart for justice, mercy. They care about realities on the ground, but they don't have the larger divine perspective. They know the Bible says love your neighbor, but they don't look at some of the other things that are taught, broadly speaking. All right, as soon as we come back, I'm going straight to your Jewish-related calls. Mm.

Game for It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Welcome back to our Thurley Jewish Thursday broadcast.

Michael Brown. Delighted to be with you. Our phone lines are open. If you have a Jewish-related, Israel-related, Hebrew-related question, even Islam-related, we'll do our best to provide you with solid answers. Let's go to Rachel in Boca Ruth, Florida.

Welcome to the line of fire. Hi, Dr. Brown. Thank you so much for taking the call. You're very welcome.

Okay. Um, I have a question about Isaiah fifty three. Yes, sure. Isaiah 53, 5. He was pierced for our transgressions.

And when I read this on Haba.org, it says he was pained because of our transgression.

So I'm just curious as to Which is the right word. Yes, uh The vast majority of translations, ancient and modern, understand this to be pierced. The the Hebrew root is chalal. And uh In the context here and the way it would be most commonly used. Uh pierced would be the most Uh natural.

Reading of it. And again, if you're looking at the other words that are used. It's miduka, so he's crushed. And then it talks about Musar, the discipline or the punishment that brought us peace is upon him. And then it mentions Chavurato, his wounds.

So because it speaks of all of these things that speak of him being beaten and afflicted, and the previous verse that underscores that as well, where it says, Surely he's borne our sicknesses and carried our pains, but we regarded him as smitten. As afflicted by God, as oppressed.

So This would tie in with chalal, mikhulal here in verse 5, most likely meaning pierced. And again, the vast majority of modern and ancient translations read it the same way.

So the New Jewish Version, which is not a Christian translation, the Tanakh New Jewish Version, as it's called, says he was wounded because of our sins. The Septuagint, so the Jewish translation dating to before the time of Jesus. uh translates also with the Greek word for uh wounded.

Now, there is another Hebrew root, chalal. And it would not be the primary one, it would be a secondary one, another Hebrew root chalal, that has to do with being stained or being defiled. And some have said that's what it is there. Uh but It's not the most natural reading. It's not the expected reading there.

It's not what's reflected in the ancient and modern translations.

Now, by the way, I'd have no problem with it. In other words, he's bearing our sins. The Messiah is bearing our sins and therefore is bearing the penalty of the sin, the uncleanness of the sin. He's carrying it on his own shoulders.

So just as he's physically wounded, he is carrying our sins in a spiritual sense as well.

So Michalal, you could say, Could mean defiled. It's just not the most likely meaning in the context there, which seems to speak of physical violence done to him.

Okay, so on this website, do they just not want to use the word Um Pierce 'cause it sounds too much, Christian. Oh.

Well, that, okay. Chabad is an ultra-Orthodox Jewish website, a Hasidic, a Hasidic website. And they're they're reflecting Jewish scholarship there. And they're reflecting primarily the interpretation of Rashi, who's the foremost rabbinic commentator. Rashi lived from 1040 to 1105, a French Jewish scholar.

So, for example, if I go there now and I type in the book of Isaiah. And I'm doing this right as we speak, and I go to chapter 53. Then, when I get there, what I want to do is I want to show also. I want to show the commentary of Rossi.

So that's right on the top. Do I show it or hide it? I want to show it. And what you'll see is that the translation here really reflects the Really reflects the understanding. By the way, where I'm going, just where you have the translation and the Rashi commentary, it has pained.

It doesn't say defiled, it says pained. Right. Right. Some have argued that defiled would be the word that was the other point that I was making. But pained is really, it's just not.

Rashi doesn't even comment on it there. It's just not the best translation. And does it say that because it doesn't want to say pierced because it sounds too Christian? I I would hope not. But every translation is a commentary in itself.

The reason I would hope not is because I would hope they would have the integrity to translate it as they saw it even if, or to use a translation that they thought got it right, even if it it seemed to support a Christian reading of the text. But as to why They use a particular translation there. Philosophically, that's just another issue. Why they chose the particular translation that they use is another issue. And and um Yeah, look, there are places where it's clear there's a theological battle.

and the Christians are going to translate it one way and traditional Jews another way. And the question is who's right? In this case, it's so minor because the chapter is so overwhelmingly clear as a whole that that would be the. And again, pained, he was pained because of our transgression is fine. But pierced, wounded is definitely the better translation there.

Hey, thank you for the call. I appreciate it. Thank you. All right. 866-34TRUTH.

Let's go to Corbin in Lakeland, Florida. Welcome to the line of fire. Hey, thank you very much, Dr. Brown. Sure thing.

Um my question would I haven't studied, um, the I plan for Israel's future very much in the scriptures myself, which could play into Why I'm not quite as passionate as I should be about it.

So I I've grown up uh being taught that in nineteen forty four, I think it was That's the land promises. were fulfilled to Israel. I know that there's some Old Testament verses maybe in the minor prophets that talk about Israel coming back to the land. But my question is, how do we know that that wasn't talked about when they came back from exile? Does that make sense?

Yeah, so you'd be talking about 1948. When Israel was re-established as a state.

Now, first, to be clear, the land promises have not been fulfilled yet. Israel is only in a portion of the land that was promised. But in the original context, for example, when you look at Ezekiel 36. Or when you look at Jeremiah 23, when you look at other passages talking about the return. Of the Jewish exiles to the land, it was definitely talking about, first and foremost, 2,500 years ago.

In other words, if I tell you, Corbyn, there's a big storm coming to Lakeland, so be really careful, I'm not telling you about a storm coming in 5,000 years, right?

However, if those words became recorded as Scripture, I'm warning the people of Lakeland that there's a big storm coming and it's going to be devastating in its power. And then six months from now, there's a minor storm. And that's it. But that these words are part of Scripture. Then you might wonder, wow.

Is there a storm still coming? Because that first one didn't really line up with what was written.

So when you read the prophecies about the return from exile, It speaks of a far greater return than took place with the return from Babylonian captivity, at which point about 40-something thousand Jews returned from exile. It was hardly glorious the way the prophets described. It hardly had end-time messianic implications the way the prophets described. And yet they said it would happen.

Now you have the question, all right. Did they exaggerate? Did they blow it out of proportion?

Well, in that case, they weren't prophets. They were speaking out of their own hearts and minds.

Now that it's recorded in Scripture, We go back and read those verses and realize, okay. Part of it happened, but the rest of it hasn't happened. And we understand that since God scattered the Jewish people in his anger. that the Jewish people don't have the power to regather themselves. that if God scatters, that we don't have the power to regather.

Otherwise, that would mean that we simply overturn the will of God by our own doing.

So we recognize that out of the ashes of the Holocaust, a modern state has been miraculously reborn. We understand that Israel has survived despite the severe hostility of the surrounding nations, and we see prophecies like Zechariah 12 and Zechariah 14, which speak of all nations coming against a Jewish Jerusalem. That's never happened before.

So, therefore, there must be a regathering for these things to come to pass.

So, again, I warn you, there's a massive storm coming to Lakeland that's going to have implications for all of the United States. And then you have a minor hurricane and not much else a year from now. But this becomes recorded as sacred scripture of Lakeland.

So you're going to wonder: well, when is that storm going to hit? There was that first storm, but it still never hit. And if, in fact, I was really prophesying for Lakeland, then 10 years from now, 50 years, 100 years, you're still looking for that storm.

So the prophecies are fulfilled incrementally.

Some of it happened 2500 years ago, but then there was an even greater scattering. And now we reread these passages like Jeremiah 16 that says, it'll be even bigger. It'll be bigger than past regatherings. And we say, ah, past. That's the one happening.

And then we see Ezekiel 36: I'll bring you back to the land in unbelief.

So we see a secular state of Israel, we understand why Israel's still in unbelief.

So I hope that makes some sense to you. Thank you for your great question. Hey, this is Michael Brown. I want to invite you to join me for our second ever trip to Israel, February 25th through March 6th, 2017. This is a great opportunity I get to interact with you, our radio listening audience, and our ministry partners as we experience the land of Israel together and it will be a life-changer.

We've got a great price on the trip. And if you're one of our monthly supporters or torch bearers, you're eligible to receive a special discount for this once-in-a-lifetime experience. Space is limited, and we're accepting applications on a first-come, first-served basis. For more information on the trip to secure your spot, go to askdrbrown.org, click on the Israel banner, or call our office at 704-782-3760. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 Truth. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown. Thank you for joining us on this Thurly Jewish Thursday.

Hey, can I tell you? That we get so many excellent calls from you, our listeners, so many literate calls, so many calls based on probing important issues and thinking about difficult issues.

So, I really, really appreciate the calls, the wisdom in your calls, the great questions that you ask.

So, thanks for being such great listeners and such great participants.

Well, tell you what, 866-34Truth, give out the number one more time, but I don't plan on taking any calls unless there's something urgent in these next few minutes because I want to. Take another moment and address the issue of younger evangelicals and modern Israel. Younger evangelicals and modern Israel. From what I've read on different websites, from what I've seen anecdotally as well, there is more skepticism towards the Bible. less knowledge of the scriptures.

In the younger generation in the church today than in my generation. And There are good points and bad points among the millennial believers, the younger generation of believers. A good point would be they they don't seem to be as hung up on racial and ethnic boundaries as my generation was. They seemed to be more accepting of different people from different backgrounds than my generation was. They seem to have a real heart for justice.

and a real concern for the underdog. These are highly commendable qualities. and certainly biblically based qualities. as well. in many ways.

The weaknesses would be that often in solidarity with others they lose sight of the larger issues of right and wrong. they lose sight of the larger moral absolutes, They lose sight of an authoritarian, this is right, this is wrong from heaven type of mentality.

Now, let me break it down for you in a way that's not related to Israel today. They would look at, say, Johnny, nice kid in school. 18 years old, a really nice kid. They've watched Johnny get bullied by these macho guys for years and get called a sissy. But Johnny's a really nice kid, and Johnny confides in them that he's gay and so on, and that's why these others have bullied him over these years.

And you get to know Johnny's a sweet kid, and he's got a serious relationship with a guy named Ray, and you wonder, young person, well, why can't Johnny and Ray be married?

So you're looking at it from that humanistic viewpoint, but caring about it. He's a nice guy, and why is this wrong? And they seem to get along well and enjoy each other's company. And what's wrong with it?

So there is the losing of sight of the larger issue. What's the meaning of marriage? What's the purpose of marriage? How does God define marriage? How does God view homosexual relations?

What are the long-term fruits on the society? Of embracing homosexuality. Those questions are often missed or downplayed. And because of that, I've spoken to many a Christian leader who said that their kids don't see things the same way they do on these issues. And when you talk to the kids about it, when you break it down enough, you realize that what the Bible says is secondary.

You'll see it in many cases. What the Bible says is secondary, what is primary. primary Is the feelings and the relations, and what appears to be fair and not fair.

So things get skewed in that way.

Now, they speak things that we, the older generation, need to hear. We'd say, hey, this is a person. It's not just an issue, it's a person. And when you're yelling at the pulpit about same-sex marriage is so evil, remember you got that kid sitting there who's 15 and suicidal because he thinks God hates him because of his same-sex attractions. We welcome that input.

And embrace it while still standing for what the Bible says. It's similar to Israel. Yes, if you go on a tour of Israel, and I hope you can join us next year, you'll be blown away and you'll see how Israel goes out of its way to live in peace with its neighbors and to be just and to be fair. And you'll see how the nation is committed to justice and righteousness in so many ways. But if you're not recognizing that God brought the people back to the land, then you might say, well, come on.

you know, Israel, this, this nation, this, this, you know, uh, this this um Godly place. And come on, Israel's great article by Tsfi Sadan on IsraelToday.co.il, Israel, Israeli pride or is it? He points out that Israel's entrant into last week's Eurovision 2016 song contest was the openly homosexual Hovey Star. And he said the local TV host, our local TV host for the event was Drag Queen Tallula Bonnet. And that made many Israelis proud.

He said, what? Why would they be celebrating that? And what about the fact that you've got prostitution in Israel, you got abortion in Israel, and these kinds of things? And what about the horror stories that Palestinians tell about mistreatment by Israeli soldiers, and so on and so forth? And how is that right?

And how is that fair? And how is this so wonderful about Israel? If you say, okay, God has brought the Jewish people back to the land in unbelief. God has brought the Jewish people back to the land. In sin not because of our righteousness, but because of his mercy.

And the only way to understand world history is to understand God's hand has been with Israel. And the only way to understand why, after being scattered longer than any people was scattered, that the Jewish people retained their identity and then were brought back to the land and now are speaking the language of the ancient land, yet modernized, but speaking Hebrew, and Jerusalem is back in Jewish hands, just as the prophets spoke. How on earth did these things happen without divine intervention? You recognize His hand. You see the murderous efforts of the Holocaust, and yet, out of the agony of that God delivering and re-establishing, and you see how Satan is trying to wipe out the Jewish people and keep the Jewish people out of Jerusalem and keep the scriptures from being fulfilled and keep a Jewish Jerusalem from welcoming the Messiah back.

You see all of that. And then you say, okay, Israel is certainly not perfect, but we recognize God's with Israel. Satan's working to destroy Israel. And therefore, radical Islam, you could see that in a clearer light. And now you pray for the salvation of Israel in the midst of its sin.

And as a friend of Israel, call on Israel for fair treatment of all. Hold Israel's feet to the fire when there is injustice. And you should know that throughout Israel, there are liberal Israelis, including Messianic Jews who have a great heart for human need as well as for loving God. And they'll be the first to say Israel needs to step higher here and here and here.

So we can be true friends of Israel without having to whitewash Israel's failings. Be sure to join me on the tour of a lifetime. You want to know about Israel? Come there with me. Your views will never ever be the same.

All at askdrbrown.org. My bottom line today, I stand with Israel because God does.