The American Flag: Symbol of Liberty or Oppression?

From the college campuses to the U.S. flag, we've got a fascinating show today. Uh It's time for The Line of Fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and President of Fire School of Ministry.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

So what is it we really want to see? Do we want to see America become quote a Christian nation. Are we trying to bring America, quote, back to God? Was America ever with God. Are we trying to make America great again?

Are we trying to rebuild America? Or do we just win as many souls as we can here in America and elsewhere? And nothing's going to be great until Jesus returns and sets up his kingdom. Otherwise, it's a fallen, messed-up world. What should our attitude be?

Again, as we've been talking last couple of days, the intersection between devotion to the Lord and patriotism, where do they intersect? Where do they not intersect? 866-348. 7884 is the number to call 866-34-TRUTH. I am not.

I am not advocating For Christians to forcefully take over America. And I personally don't know anyone who is advocating for such nonsense. I've never heard it. I have dialogued with many believers, many leaders. I travel in many circles.

I've been in many closed-door meetings with senior leadership teams, strategizing things. And I've never once heard any talk. of any type of force bullets that will take over. If we talk about, quote, taking over. What we mean is win people to Jesus and make disciples and win more and more people to Jesus and make more and more disciples until we become more dominant with our ideology.

Just like secularism has every right to do that, and atheism has every right to do that, and Islam has every right to do that. And whatever philosophy you're part of, every group has every right to do that here in America because we're followers of Jesus. We believe God's ways are best. As followers of Jesus, we believe that God's ways are ways of life and wisdom. And that, for example, if husbands and wives would conduct themselves according to the teaching of the Bible, if they would raise their kids according to the teaching of the Bible, if kids would respect their elders according to the teaching of the Bible, America would be a much safer, more family-friendly, healthy, morally strong, economically robust country.

Real simple. If we believe that universities would do better to have a godly consciousness as opposed to a godless consciousness, if we believe that the school system would be better if it had more of a reverence for biblical principles of morality, if you're going to teach something, well, teach principles that are honorable principles, teach principles of purity and responsibility. If we believe that, it doesn't mean that we are trying to force everyone in the schools to be a Christian. I've never met anyone that thinks like that. What we are looking for is the freedom that our founding fathers intended us to have, and then for us to have the influence, the best possible influence that we can have.

So, when I am pledging allegiance to the flag, I'm doing that as a loyal citizen, which God calls me to be as much as I can, whatever country I live in, to be submitted to the leadership and honoring of that leadership as much as is possible. And when that leadership tells me I have to obey them rather than God, at that point I respectfully say no, I must obey God rather than man. When they tell me to violate scripture, violate my conscience with respect, not with burning the flag, not with calling them pigs and idiots, but simply saying, Sir, ma'am, I respect your authority, but I must honor God rather than man. That's all we are doing. And then we live out our lives in quietness and godliness.

We may make a major uh an effort to get our message out. But we are not disruptive people going down the streets, burning down buildings or bombing things or anything like that. That's not how we conduct ourselves. We preach the gospel, we live our message, and we seek to have the maximum input that we can. And if we do violence, it's in prayer.

It's spiritual warfare, not physical warfare. But some people just don't get it. You're going to be shocked with some of the clips I play when we come back. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

All right, when we sing that song, I haven't sung it in many, many years, but when I used to sing at the church in which I got saved. There was no notion in any of our hearts or minds that that meant take up arms against the government. Take up arms against the unbelievers. March on, Christian soldiers, and slaughter and kill as you go. No, no, no, no.

We never thought that for a split second. And some of you, you're nodding your heads like, of course, we never thought that for a split second. It's a spiritual song. with spiritual imagery. And that's what it's about.

When Paul talks about spiritual warfare, he's talking about in prayer with demonic powers and forces, not fighting human beings. In the Old Testament, the children of Israel drove out the Canaanites. In the New Testament, we drive out demons. In the Old Testament, those who disobeyed in Israel were put to death. In the New Testament, they are put out of the fellowship.

There are profound differences in how we deal with things. Yes, there is civil law and civil government and jails and prison sentences and things like that, but it's not the church that's rounding people up and arresting them and throwing them in jail or torturing them or killing them. God forbid. And anytime the church has done things like that, it was a complete aberration.

So So I want you to know what some people think about this. And this is, I mean, this is remarkable, absolutely remarkable. We go back to 2012 on the David Pac-Man show. I was on his show a few times, had him online once, and I doubt that either will be on either show again in the future for quite a few reasons. But he's radical liberal, and his whole show is he brings on people.

Now he may bring on someone, you know, a KKK person or a white supremacist or some radical Black Panther leader, you know, someone like that that does have a pretty extreme ideology and some of them want to use violence. But he'll look at me just the same way as a leader in this right-wing fanatical group. That's I sometimes when I've been sent some of his clips to listen to. I almost feel as if it's a parody. Like he can't actually believe this, but I do believe he believes what he's saying.

So, Joey, we'll start with clip number 11. David Pachman showed 2012, and he's speaking with Rachel Tabachnik, researcher, writer, and speaker on the impact of the religious right. And she's talking about the new apostolic reformation and dominion. Theology.

So, clip number 11. Does the takeover involve kind of a strategic thought-out process? Is it potentially a violent type of takeover of these areas? I mean, how far does this movement potentially go?

Well, let me stress that perhaps the major architect of the movement in the United States, C. Peter Wagner, states that there does not have to be any type of violent overthrow. And in fact, he doesn't like to use the word theocratic. He says that this can be done inside of completely democratic means, just by the growth of the movement and growth of popularity of the movement.

So, in other words, he's saying that if the movement becomes large enough and the outreach is effective enough, then they can take this control. Just through voting and democratic means and taking over policy and the structure in these seven mountains.

Okay.

Okay.

First, notice C. Peter Wagner is supposedly the chief architect of this, all right? And I want to go back to what this whole seven mountains thing actually is in a moment. But The idea that C. Peter Wagner is the principal architect, he's one leader who holds to these things.

Okay, so we'll start there. And when you understand the seven mountains of culture, influence in culture, you'll say, oh, that makes sense. But notice the way. This quote expert, and she may well be well read in this, responds to the question: no, see, Peter Whitney says you don't have to use force. Are those his words?

Are those his words? You don't have to use force or is that what she's putting on his lips? Or of course you don't use force. That's not the way of the gospel. We do not grow by means of the sword.

There can be a just war where America is fighting in a war and it is a right and just war, and Christians are serving in the Army as citizens of America. That has nothing to do with advancing the gospel in that respect. We don't advance the gospel with the sword. Yeah.

So, what are the seven mountains of influence? I had Os Hillman on to talk about this once, his relevant website, severalculturalmountains.org. But he says, In 1975, Bill Bright Founder of Campus Crusader Lauren Cunningham, founder of Youth with a Mission, had lunch together in Colorado. God simultaneously gave each of these change agents a message to give to the other. During that same time, Francis Schaefer was given a similar message.

That message was that we are to impact. If we were to impact any nation for Jesus Christ, then we would have to affect the seven spheres or mountains of society that are the pillars. of any society. In other words, if you're really going to have an impact. then you've got to impact these larger spheres of influence.

So the seven mountains are business, government, media, Arts and Entertainment, Education, The Family, and religion. Let me repeat that. Business. Government Media arts and entertainment, education, the family, and religion.

So how do Christians have this impact? How do we impact business, government, media, arts and entertainment, education, the family, and religion?

Well, here's David Packman's take on this, his response to quote Dominion theology or the new apostolic reformation or seven mountains. Theology.

Clip number 12. Let's listen here to what David Packman has to say. It is the exact same mentality, ladies and gentlemen. If you think of groups like ISIS, Boko Haram, Hamas, Al-Qaeda, how can we ignore the similarities? to right-wing fundamentalist Christian ideology, the subjugation of women.

The homophobia. The anti-gay points of view, the racism and xenophobia, the willingness to very quickly go to violence and/or threaten violence to achieve political goals, goals which in and of themselves are typically informed by religion. They want a fully theocratic government where religion informs the law, education, and civil society, just like the extreme right-wing Christians of the U.S. who claim to oppose this type of theocratic state. If you don't see it, You're either ignorant or you're deliberately ignoring it because you see it so clearly.

I I think I've played this clip. before on the air some time back. Again, I don't believe. This is satire. I don't believe this is like Comedy Central.

I believe David Pacman genuinely believes what he's saying. and puts radical Muslims and committed Christians in the same boat. and sees both as having theocratic goals.

So let us, for the sake of those who think like this, Or for those that might listen to The Line of Fire and David Pachman shows. Just in case such human beings exist out there that you regularly listen to both, let me help educate you on this. All right. Islam wants to take over, meaning when it gets Enough influence in the culture, majority influence, or a strong enough minority that can impose its will, it wants to now impose Sharia law on the nation. It wants to force everyone you either convert to Islam or you pay a tax as a second-class citizen.

Or you must bow down to The standards of Sharia law, which could mean that if you're caught stealing, your hand is chopped off. Which could mean if you're caught committing adultery that you're stoned to death or beheaded. whatever the case may be. There will be a forcible takeover. Christians are saying, hey.

If we really want to impact the nation. Let us do our best to impact these different areas, these mountains of cultural influence. namely, business, government, media, arts and entertainment, education, the family, and religion.

So How do we do it with the family? Are we going to take over every family in America? Are we going to force every family to read the Bible or else? Are we going to require church attendance? And if you don't go to church, you're penalized?

No, no, no, no. I don't know anyone in the world that thinks like that. Terms of any Any. Genuine Christian, I'm sure they're crazies out there, maybe somewhere, but nothing to do with the faith, nothing to do with really knowing Jesus. Never heard anyone talk such nonsense.

What do we want to do to impact the family? Have godly families ourselves? Godly values in our families. win other people to Jesus and help them have godly families. That's our agenda.

Yeah, that's the agenda. How about government?

Well, we try to elect officials who hold to our values, who believe in the sanctity of life, the importance of marriage and family. And whatever other views we would have consistent with our faith that worked their way out in the government. We try to elect officials like that and influence those who are elected. to operate according to these principles. to the point that we can have enough influence.

that we can help work together in the democratic process. for our ideas to prevail. Is that so evil? Is that so insidious? Is that like radical farms?

No! God of light, hear our cry, send us fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr.

Michael Brown.

The schism in this country is between those who support the secular constitution that the framers wrote and those who are trying to write God into it. The schism is between those who support tolerance and those who believe there is only one truth and they have a mandate to impose that truth on the rest of the country. Nobody knows what I can hear with God. No boy, oh boy, oh boy. Wild.

That was Joan Beaucare of Cornell University's Theocracy Watch. What troubles me is that that's someone at Cornell University. Speaking of a secular constitution, it's not a secular constitution. It is a constitution based on fear of God. It is a constitution based on the recognition, like our Declaration of Independence, that there are inalienable rights given by the Creator.

It is a constitution that was written by men who were either God-fearing. In terms of recognizing a creator, God, and believing that he had an important role to play in the government. or overtly Christians. To make it into a secular document is to misconstrue it. No, no, no, it was not a document enforcing religion.

It was a document presupposing that there would be a moral and religious society. And what I find is that the intolerant ones are the ones who have their own specific agenda. The ones who are the radical leftists, the ones who are supposedly practicing tolerance, they are utterly intolerant. and seeking to shut down all opposing views. Whereas when you have the nation thriving, it's when it has the strongest Christian influence, which then gives liberty to others to differ.

Boy, oh boy. I have a video on this. or Christians trying to take over. Where I talk about so-called dominionism. There may be some groups out there, but they're the minority of the minority of the minority.

That want to impose biblical law on the entire nation, you know, all the laws of the Old Testament that can be applied. It's a minority of a minority of a minority. And I strongly differ with them in private conversation when I've had it, and publicly. But again, none of the groups that they're referring to hold to these things. And the so-called New Apostolic Reformation, I mean, that's the name for it.

I've been called a leader in it when I actually have no formal association with it, by the way. But what does that matter to critics? Yeah.

And, you know, I have to chuckle when I get accused of every kind of thing with groups I have no association with or groups that I don't work with, and then I'm a leader of them.

So you should tell them, they'll be interested to hear that. But And I like some of what C. Peter Wagner said over the years. I differ with other things that he said. But either way, nobody is talking about any type of forceful takeover.

We're talking about through prayer. Through godly living, through sharing our faith, through being disciples and making disciples, that we have. A growing impact on the nation, and it is a growing positive impact. And I would think most groups that have a real serious viewpoint. want to do that.

Do the groups funded by George Soros want to have some kind of impact? Positive impact? 866-34-TRUTH, number to call.

So check out my video. You can go to the lineofire.org. By the way, to listen to the broadcast. If you used to listen at oneplace.com to listen to the broadcast every day, just go to thelineoffire.org. If you get the first half hour of our broadcast and want to listen to the second hour or to the second half hour, you want to listen to that, just go to thelineoffire.org.

And you'll see listen live. You'll see it in red. Just click on that and boom, wherever you are. Any device you have, be it your cell phone, be it your tablet, be it your computer, you can listen anywhere in the world. As some of you are listening right now in foreign countries, hey, a personal shout out.

Yeah, big smile from me over here. All right. Let's get back to one thing that is foundational. We believe in following the scriptures in our own lives. And we believe to the extent that others will follow the scriptures, that they too will be.

that they too will be enriched. And that, for example, if all of America lived by the wisdom of Proverbs, we'd have a very different world. We have a very different world. Would have a very different America, and that in turn would impact the world.

So, check out my videos on Dominion theology. And another video, at what point do we brand something heresy? Just go to thelineoffire.org, check on latest videos, or just click on digital library to see everything that is there.

So, as we get back to scripture, let's listen to some interaction I have with Professor Craig Keener, who is the co-editor of the NIV Cultural Backgrounds Study Bible. Joey, grab clip number one. This will help you understand what the scriptures really say.

So, we start with clip number one. When I first discovered that Bible background actually made a difference in understanding some passages, I think We've got to get this into people's hands. Yeah, the background commentary has been well I think it's like Well, it's well over half a million copies. In terms of getting the background understanding into everybody's hands. Uh I mean Not all these notes are necessary to understand.

You don't have to know that much about Pontius Pilot or We're so on to to really understand the text but Some of them really make a difference. And I really want to see I really want to see people be able to have access to Bible background, just like we have access to good translations. All right, friends, here's how you get this. This amazing work, almost 2,500 pages. It's 2,350 plus pages with charts, beautiful pictures, constant notes and commentaries.

One of the most beautifully produced Bibles I've ever seen. And massive, massive cultural notes. Go to askdrbrown.org, a.brown.org, right to our homepage or our radio website, thelineoffire.org. And you'll see it. When you order it, not only are you being a blessing to our ministry as you get this, great, get it now as an early holiday present, but.

We are also giving you the exclusive two-hour Interview we did with Craig Kanan to listen to on your MP3 player. That's our free gift when you get the Bible exclusively from our website.

So do it at thelineoffire.org. You'll be blessed. All right. One more reminder today. Wow, I can't believe it.

One week from tomorrow. Are meeting in Brooklyn. Yes, one week from tomorrow in Brooklyn. Everybody listening to me on the line of fire, we set this up just for you. We set this up.

I was coming to the city to do some preaching. I said, I want to have listener rallies. I want to get with our listening audience.

So here's the deal: September 8th. This is going to be 7 in the evening at the Feinberg Messianic Center. I'm going to do a talk on Isaiah 53, the rabbis and the messiah starting at 7 o'clock. Come out. You don't want to miss it.

Face to face. Meet and greet all my friends in the Brooklyn area. We'll do QA after my lecture. I'll sign books for you. And we'll give you some neat ways that you can partner with us in the line of fire broadcast.

And then. Saturday night, Manhattan. This is going to be a big meeting. Saturday night in Manhattan, 2 West 64th Street. You got that?

2 West 64th Street. I'm doing a talk on Israel and the U.S. presidential election, comparing the positions of the candidates with the Bible. That'll be 7:30 Saturday night in Manhattan. Don't miss these special meetings.

For more details, go to my website, askdr Brown, A-S-K-D-R-Brown.org, and just click on itinerary. I want to see you there. We set up these meetings. I've got a full schedule already, but we added these in to do special listener rallies, face-to-face, meet and greet. You don't want to miss it.

Look forward to seeing you there. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown.

Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Alright, we live in a day of hypersensitivity. It is not just a day of heightened social conscience.

So that we don't denigrate certain groups of people, we don't use certain expressions that are considered to be offensive. That's positive. We can become more sensitive to certain things. It's positive when we realize that ways of speech we've had can be considered denigrating. and insulting and it's legitimate and it's a real concern.

That's positive. But we live in a day of hypersensitivity. A day when If a Faculty member, a male faculty member tells a female faculty member Hey, that's a great outfit you're wearing today. That that really suits you well. That could be considered a microaggression because he is now putting her looks above her ability to teach.

If you talk to a colleague and say, Hey, How about playing a round of golf one day next week during vacation? That could be a microaggression because that person might not be able to afford a round of golf, and on and on it goes. And you have safe spaces now where people can go so they won't be offended by particular ideas. I am joined by Dr. Everett Piper.

He is the president of Oklahoma Wesleyan University. He has an article dealing with some of these issues, but he has been an outspoken critic of a lot of the political correctness in recent years. Dr. Piper, it's a joy to have you on the line of fire. Dr.

Brown, my pleasure. Before we get into details, how long have you been involved in higher education? Oh, essentially my entire career. I started uh working in a Christian Liberal Arts Institution in Michigan, right out of college.

So About thirty years, I've been President of Oklahoma Wesleyan University for approximately fifteen. And how big a school is this? Just about two thousand. We are a conservative Christian liberal arts institution that's unapologetic and bold about. our four pillars.

We call it the primacy of Christ, the priority of scripture, the pursuit of truth and the practice of wisdom. Those are the four pillars of our mission statement. And how would you say your four pillars compare with the philosophy of education that was held by Harvard and Yale and these other schools in the early days of America?

Well, at their inception, they were very similar to us, and I know that you know that. You're well aware of it. In fact, Yale's. initial mission statement. Said something akin to this: to lay Christ at the bottom as the foundation of all learning.

The Ivy League schools were founded as Christian institutions because they recognized the third pillar of Oklahoma Wesleyan, quite frankly, the pursuit. Of truth, that truth is an objective reality. It is a revelation of God. It is not a postmodern construct of man. And the goal of the Academy should be to learn something.

To not construct opinions, but to pursue truth and embrace it and own it, because in the words of Jesus, the truth shall set you free. Mm. All right. In just a minute before the break, How would you summarize the changes you have now witnessed in your years as an educator?

Well, the Academy has abandoned the pursuit of truth. We now celebrate tolerance rather than pursuing what's true. We now teach what's common, i.e. common core, rather than engage in excellence, excellent education. We're more interested in money, teaching the kid how to get a career, than we are in teaching a student what it means to be moral, a moral society, a moral people.

We've abandoned the classical liberal arts. The liberal arts was established, let's go back to Oxford in 1100 AD, to liberate us. To give us an education for a free man and a free woman and a free culture, recognizing that that liberty and that liberation, classical liberalism, if you will, was truly the conservation of time-tested truths of God. Today, the conservative is much more classically liberal, if you will, than the progressive left, because we believe in liberty and liberation and justice and goodness. And we realize that, as C.S.

Lewis said, you can do no measuring without a measuring rod outside of those things being measured. Incredible, incredibly clear. All right, friends, I've got some very specific questions when we come back with Dr. Piper. The Piper Micro.

sensitivity today and then what should our attitude be towards the flag It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Some of the greatest schools in our nation, the Harvards, the Yales. began explicitly to train people for Christian ministry. And even those that were going to go into the secular world were to do so as, quote, ornaments of the church or ornaments of Christ. Harvard's founders intended quote to advance learning. and perpetuated to posterity, dreading to leave an illiterate ministry to the churches.

Dartmouth's motto: a voice crying out in the wilderness, taken from Isaiah 40, verse 3, and on and on it goes. I'm speaking with Dr. Everett Piper. He is president of Oklahoma Wesley University. And I have to say, with no flattery intended in any way, that among university presidents, chancellors, and leaders, he is one of the most bold and outspoken in the nation.

Dr. Piper, What is your take on this new development with microaggressions, trigger warnings, safe spaces? You're an educator. You have an environment that is overtly and unashamedly Christian.

So you do have a point of view that you're getting across on the campus. But what's your take on what's called the Snowflake Rebellion of 2015?

Well, point blank, Doctor Brown, it's uh nonsense. It's just pure nonsense. It makes no sense. It completely abandons the rational, the logical. It abandons the pursuit of truth, and it replaces it with emotion and hyperbole and exaggeration.

It makes no sense. And frankly, it's uh the chickens are coming home, the roost. It's our own fault. And when I say our, it's our culture's fault. It is the academy's fault.

We have created this monster. We've taught kids for some Let's just say 20, 30, 40 years, that it quote unquote doesn't matter what you believe as long as it works for you, that it's all about self and selfishness, self-actualization, if you will. We have created self-absorbed and narcissistic students by teaching self-absorption and narcissism. Richard Weaver told us in 1948 in his seminal work that ideas have consequences. What was his point?

Ideas have consequences. All ideas bear fruit, and a good idea bears good fruit, and a bad idea bears bad fruit. Like our mothers and grandmothers told us, garbage in and garbage out. We've been consuming ideological carcinogens. For some 40, 50 years, and now we're surprised that we've got ideological cancer of the heart, mind, and soul.

We've got to recognize that it's only in pursuing truth. The truth shall set us free. Verita. Still emblazoned on Oxford's logo and symbol. Veritas, Latin for truth, is the objective of the Academy, not your opinion.

At Oakland and Wesleyan, I don't pat you on the back when you graduate and say, congratulations, you've got a degree in opinions. I hope you've actually learned something that was true and right and just and real as a result of going to school here, not that you just got your own little opinion. That would be an insult to you and your kids if that's all you got out of Oklahoma Westland. Because an opinion always leads to bondage and slavery, and I'll take a breath here. An opinion always leads to bondage and slavery.

Pol Pot and Mao and Robespierre and Stalin and Chavez and Hitler and Mussolini. All the despots of history had opinions and it didn't did not end well, but truth sets us free. What if someone comes back and says, You're doing the very same thing. You've got your Christian opinions and you're trying to impose them and just raise up an army of crusaders.

So, what are you doing differently than these other schools are doing? How would you respond?

Well, I would say that indeed everybody does approach a debate under the assumption that they're right. and that their ideas are superior to those they're debating with. Otherwise, you wouldn't waste your breath and I wouldn't waste my breath, nor would our adversaries and opponents waste their breath to even have a conversation with us. A debate assumes that there is a right answer and a wrong answer. Otherwise, why bother?

Bother? Why waste your time? time. It's the nature of being a human being. I live in Oklahoma and when I drive through the ranches on my way down to Tulsa, I don't see the cows arguing with one another.

They don't care. You and I do. Those that are left of center of us do.

So we bring our assumptions to the table. Our assumptions don't make us right or wrong. There has to be a referee outside of our knowledge, outside of our opinions, in order to have a healthy, robust exchange of ideas. You can't play football without boundaries or a referee, and you can't engage in a debate without a measuring rod outside of those things being measured. I would quote G.K.

Chesterton in summary, and I would say this. He told us that when you get rid of the big laws of God, you don't get liberty, but rather thousands of little laws that rush in to fill the vacuum. And that's what we have today: a bunch of little opinions, a bunch of little laws, thousands upon thousands of them, reams of them that have rushed in to fill the ten simple laws that God gave us. Really, Christ boiled them down to two. That's all we needed.

That's all we needed. And we wouldn't have to have all of this government largesse and this bureaucratic fiat telling us how to live our lives. Everything from what bathroom to use. to how to pay our taxes and how to engage in a debate on our campus is now being relegated by government because we've given our souls and our minds over to Caesar rather than worshiping Christ.

Now, G.K. Chesterton similarly said that people who don't believe in God don't believe in nothing, they believe in anything.

So it's a similar kind of thing here that you're talking about in the educational world. This younger generation has often been referred to as Generation Me. And of course, it's reflected in, say, taking selfies. It's reflected in what you put on social media, kind of all about me, and the world revolves around me. And the world revolves around how I feel about a particular thing.

Not is what you're saying true. Is what you're saying accurate? But how it feels to me, and it may be different than my truth and my reality.

So we don't want to blame the younger generation as if they just brought this on themselves. There is an environment in which they've been raised. How far would you trace this back, this shift towards a me-centered mindset? And the universe is defined, reality is defined, truth is defined by how I feel about it.

Well, whatever date you want to put on the advent of postmodernity would be the date that we're talking about here. Postmodernity celebrates meism. It celebrates narcissism. It celebrates the self. It basically is the original sin.

That we don't need God to tell us what's right or wrong, good or evil any longer. That we can decide and we can define it. We can eat of the apple of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil because we are as gods. We rise up to define everything in our own image because we don't need the Omagode any longer. And the irony of that is when we discard the Omagode, the image of God, we basically become the Omago dog, the image of a dog, because we.

We uh diminish ourselves. Digress into nothing but an accumulation of appetites and inclinations and our identity. becomes nothing but what our appetite leads us to do, which is the problem of the Sexual debates today. We claim that our inclination is our ultimate identity, and therefore we abandon the Omago De and accept the Omago Dog as the definition of what it means to be human. It's the ultimate, it's the ultimate insult of the human being to buy this postmodern mush.

Yeah.

Now, in the midst of all this, sir, are you running into An increasing hostility in the educational world to the simple Christian values you have as an overt. Christian school. Just looking at gay activist website Campus Pride, and of course, you're pleased to know that you're on their shame list, the absolute worst campuses for LGBTQ youth. And it's quite a wide-ranging group. It's seminaries like Asbury and schools like Biola.

It's Seventh-day Adventist School. It's quite a wide range. There are a lot that I'm looking at on this list. It's Mormon schools like Brigham Young. But are you actually finding, aside from gay groups trying to pressure you, that there's actually pressure within the educational world or accrediting societies to hold to Christian views today?

To some extent, there is. But there are many out there who are actually celebrating our courage and our confidence. They recognize, even if they're not Christian, But this Absurdity of the Snowflake rebellion and the microaggressions and the trigger warnings. is the antithesis of what it means to be a classical liberal arts community. I've had atheists write me letters and say, I don't agree with your religion and I don't agree with your politics, but thank you for taking a stand for freedom.

Thank you for taking a stand for an intellectual exchange of ideas that is unencumbered by politics and power. I had a Fulbright scholar from a school in uh a prominent school in Florida who Wrote me a letter saying, I don't agree with anything you say about religion and politics, but thank you for taking a stand for academic freedom and academic liberty.

So I think they recognize. That we created a mess, and the monster that we've produced, we've created is turning around to consume us.

Now on the LGBTQ thing, I would say this. When we got cited by the human rights campaign for petitioning for a Title IX exemption with regard to the transgender mandate, that we have to provide accommodations and bathrooms and locker rooms to Transgender students, and we said no. I wrote an article and I titled it, Pro-Woman and Proud of It. pro-woman and proud of it. And the reason I wrote that article was this.

How in the world How in the world can I be Title IX compliant, if you require me to deny That a bi that a female is a biological fact and then deconstruct her into being nothing but a fabrication and a fantasy. If a if a woman doesn't exist, empirically any longer, then how can I be pro-woman? And I suggested to the human rights campaign: I'm pro-woman. I believe a female exists. It's a fact, it's empirical, it's obvious.

She is an ontological and a biological reality. And she should have the right to compete against other she's and not against a he. He feels that he's a she. We come back. I want to get Dr.

Piper's take on the recent controversy with Colin Kaepernick, the flag. How should we relate the American flag? It's fire we want, for fire we need. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34 TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

I'm speaking with Dr. Edward Piper. He is the president of Oklahoma Wesleyan University. And he has rightly said that this is not a daycare, this is a university. My view.

Well Then you need to be in the nursery, not at the university. If the professor challenges your views, if a student expresses something that you differ with, then you don't have a tantrum over it. You engage it. That's what you do at the university. I went to all secular schools, got my bachelor's from Queens College and master's and PhD from New York University, and I did not study, did not study with a single person that believed what I believed and some were quite hostile.

And that's helped me to grow. It was challenging, but it helped me to grow. But whether they hurt my feelings, that was the last thing on their mind. Dr. Piper, quite a day we're living in.

I've written an open letter to NFL quarterback Colin Kaepernick and then followed up with another later, another article on separating the value of Black Lives from the Black Lives Matter movement, talking about some of the mixture and the negative radical element that's in some of these things, that's informing some of these things. But what was your whole take? Again, as an educator, a Christian educator, as an American, you know, our history is far from perfect. You know, we're far from perfect as a nation today. You also know what's made us great is biblically based principles to the extent they've been incorporated into our country's history.

What was your own take on this, and what should our attitude be towards the flag?

Well, my take is this. Oklahoma Westland is a university. We are not a diversity. We celebrate unity. We celebrate the oneness of the body of Christ.

We do not even permit, by policy. any student organizations. that uh celebrate division. We do not allow ourselves to start labeling people by virtue of race. Or by virtue of inclination, if you will.

We do not participate in that. because it's the oneness of the body of Christ that should be celebrated. You don't cut the baby in half and expect it to continue to live. You've got a dead baby. Likewise, you don't.

Create a diversity rather than a university and expect to have unity and selflessness. When we continue to emphasize victimization, you don't get virtue, you get vengeance, and that's what we have right now. Victimization produces vengeance, not virtue. And with regard to the flag, I would say this, Dr. Brown.

Our flag. is and our national anthem represent an ideal. It's our purpose. It's our mission as a nation. It's an objective good, if you will, to be pursued, just like truth, like I've been talking about.

It's the glue that binds us together, the goal of one people, a united states. It's akin to the yard markers, if you will, on the sidelines in the field of play. The ideals that make it possible to play the game. You can't play football unless there are boundaries and referees, and no player wants it to be a free-for-all with everyone to himself. You must have fences if you want to have freedom.

And like Chesterton said, you've got to have law if you want to have liberty. And Kaepernick should be celebrating the flag rather than disparaging it. Without it, He and all of his buddies would be subject to the rule of the gang, like Horowitz told us. the rule of the gang or the tyranny of one. to the capriciousness of power that comes with mob rule or a madman.

His concerns would fall on deaf ears if there's no anthem or no referee to appeal to. The ideal represented in our flag and in our anthem in America is what gives this man greater freedom and happiness rather than haplessness. than was ever dreamed of by any generation or any country or culture that preceded him.

So the ideal of the American flag is what he should be celebrating because of what it has given him. rather than what it has taken away from him. Mm. And if you Summarize.

Someone said you got a minute. What is it? that makes America great. Obviously, we have our flaws. But to the extent we are A leading country in the world and an exceptional country in world history.

If you had to boil it down, what does it boil down to? That we have been endowed Our creator with certain unalienable rights. We recognize. that our rights do not come from government. They do not come from man, but are right.

have been endowed to us by our Creator. That there is a Self-evident, unalienable truth that judges the debate. Judges righteousness. judges justice and gives us a means to judge. That's In the United States, it doesn't come down to what you think, mister Brown or what I think, Everett Piper.

It comes down to justice with a capital J and truth with the capital T, that we have self evident truths that give us the ability to pursue purpose to pursue happiness. which is the antithesis of haplessness, because there is an objective measuring rod outside of those things being measured. All other cultures and all of our other governments have been about man and power. Ours is about principle, time tested, immutable truths that are given to us by God. Yeah, very, very well said, articulately, eloquently, and clearly.

If folks want to find out about your school, where do they go? Go to www.okwu.edu. You can follow me on Twitter. It's doctor Everett Piper. That's D R E V E R E T T P I P E R.

Awesome. Keep up the great work. Keep speaking out. You are anything but alone. All right, blessings to you.

Thanks for having me on. God bless. All right. Clear headed. To the point, he's obviously thought these things through for a long time.

Glad he could share his wisdom with. all of us today. All right, friends, let me encourage you. to check out our completely revamped websites. If you've not gone to our radio website, thelineofire.org.

Go there. It is beautiful. It is user-friendly. My cutting-edge commentary on what's happening in the news and the culture around us. The latest video commentary that I have, the latest relevant article.

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To help us continue to speak out, then become a torchbearer today. Click on that on the website at askdrbrown.org, where it says donate, or at lineoffire.org, it says donate. Click to do that, and then just click monthly support. But read all the benefits, all the ways that we pour back into you as you become a torchbearer. My bottom line today: if you really want to grow, embrace the truth, whatever the cost, whatever the context.

From the college campuses to the U.S. flag, we've got a fascinating show today. Mm-hmm. It's time for the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Michael Brown is the director of the Coalition of Conscience and President of Fire School of Ministry. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34-TRUTH. That's 866-34-TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Tell you what, does this speak for you? You're standing for racial Justice in America. You're standing for equality under the law. You're standing against prejudice and things like that. Does this also speak for you?

We are committed. to disrupting The Western prescribed nuclear family structure requirement by supporting each other as extended families and villages that collectively care for one another and especially our children to the degree that mothers, parents, and children are comfortable. Is that speak for you. How about this? Queer.

Affirming. When we gather, we do so with the intention of freeing ourselves from the tight grip of heteronormative thinking. And how about transgender affirming. We are committed to being self-reflexive and doing the work required to dismantle cisgender, namely heterosexual privilege, and uplift black trans folks. You said, What?

What in the world? That's got nothing to do with me. Ah But that is from the Black Lives Matter. website Supported by radical leftists, allegedly, apparently, like George Soros. and with an extreme radical social agenda.

BlacklivesMatter.com. I cite it in my latest article. If you go to thelineofire.org, you'll see it my latest article. I document this. And I document some of the radical changes in Colin Kaepernick.

Quarterback Colin Kaepernick, who, as you know, sat out the national anthem and plans to continue to do so. And apparently, since he got romantically involved with Nessa Diyab, who is popular on MTV, she is of Egyptian descent. She is a Muslim and involved in Black Lives Matter. And Fox News pointed out that he started an Instagram account four months ago. And the main things on the Instagram account were pictures of him playing football or football related.

But 31 of his last 42 posts have strong social justice connotations, often featuring quotes from radical Nation of Islam leader Malcolm X, Black Panthers founder Yuey Newton, and cop killer Asata Shakur. During a Sunday news conference about the flag flap, Capernet dressed in a black hat with a large white X and a T shirt that featured photos of Cuban despot Fidel Castro and Malcolm X. Yeah.

Yeah, does does that represent you as an African American? When you say Black Lives Matter, is that what you mean? That you want to be associated with these radical leftists and disrupt the nuclear family? Is that you? Is that your heart?

I am strongly encouraging ongoing awareness. where there are Issues of racial injustice in America, apparent disparity in prison sentences, other things like that, the negative effect of the democrat welfare system on the inner cities. Yes, I'm urging my black brothers and sisters to continue to help us raise awareness about these issues because much of white America still does not realize them. But disassociate yourself. This is my personal.

Advice Disassociate yourself from these radical left social disruption movements like Black Lives Matter. And there are plenty of ways to get the message out without using that slogan as well. Yeah, 70% of black voters in California in 2008 voted for Proposition 8. and help secure its passage. When they came out in larger numbers to vote for their first African-American president, they also voted to uphold marriage as a union of one man, one woman, the exact opposite.

of what Black Lives Matter stands for. We come back. I'm gonna have a fascinating interview with Chris Amos. pastor of Christ Fellowship Church in Chesapeake, Virginia, a former policeman. that yes, one time shot and killed Black suspect.

Yes. What does he have to say? Oh God of burning, cleansing flames. Send the fire. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr.

Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

So, what does a retired police officer, Christian man, a pastor, Have to say to NFL quarterback Colin Kaepernick about sitting out the national anthem. Does Colin Kaepernick have the right to do that? Sure. Free country. Absolutely.

That's one of the things that soldiers have died for on the field. and when police protect him, maybe going in and out of a game, whatever happens in that context, when that's the situation, they are protecting him so he has the freedom to do what he wants to do, even in this regard. But what does a retired policeman have to say to Colin Kaepernick. And there's an open letter by Chris Amos. Posted on Facebook that went viral, much to Pastor Amos's surprise.

He's pastor of Christ Fellowship Church in Chesapeake. Virginia. A brand new non-denominational church plant that's committed to becoming one in Christ by keeping Christ. First, and he is a former Policeman. And As he says in his open letter, I'm a retired police officer that had the misfortune of having to shoot and kill a 19-year-old African-American male.

So Chris, welcome to the line of fires. Thanks so much for taking time to join us today. Thank you, Sarissa. Privileged to be here.

Now Chris, when you wrote your open letter, what were you thinking? It's eloquent. It's powerful. You could write it. I could never write it in a thousand lifetimes because I haven't lived what you lived.

What were you expecting to happen? not anything like what did happen. Um Facebook is one of those things where if it's not a video or a little me picture, it pretty much gets ignored.

So when I posted it. I I Couldn't fathom. people actually taking time to read it. I I I heard about Colin's remarks over the weekend. I pulled it up online Sunday night.

woke up early Monday morning, couldn't sleep, tossing and turning and just kind of felt led Uh pin that pin that letter. And honestly, as I sat down, it took all of fifteen minutes and it was out. And what's happened since? It has exploded. It's in places now, I I don't even know.

where it's posted. text last night saying Ben Carson has even shared it now.

So it's You know his toothpaste out of the tube. And there's no putting it back. I've had folks A lot of folks text me saying they hope Colin sees it. They hope Colin reads it. They lament over the fact that he never will.

And I tell them it's not about him now and it's not about me. is bigger and more important than that. And uh you know, it's going to do what I believe You know, the Lord wants it to go where the Lord wants it to go. Yeah, amen. And it has thus far.

And here we are on national radio talking about it. Chris, What happened when you, as you say, had the misfortune of having to shoot and kill a 19-year-old African-American male? What happened? I was in Uniform Patrol, Bicycle Patrol, and my partner and I were out in a community. it was just ravaged by drugs, marijuana primarily.

and this was a Wednesday night about seven thirty at night. We roll into that neighborhood on the bikes. And as I said, as we're rolling in, an older gentleman passes us and says, get them. And so we know the guys are out there dealing just by that. And We turn onto a street in which that's where the drug open air market tended to be, and we see a guy leaning into a car and Another one.

A guy standing next to him, so we speed up and get pretty close. They don't see us because we're on bicycles and it's dark out. But the lookout sees us first and he takes off, and then the guy who was leaning in the card dealing. He takes off in a separate direction. And I follow the dealer, my partner follows the lookout and their chases after.

you know, I I catch up to him pretty quick. I'm on a bike, he's running. And I'm yelling at him to give up. You've got to be getting tired. You're not going to outrun this bike.

Just trying to get in his head, to get him to stop. Realize he's not going to. Pull up alongside of him, close enough to touch him. Uh plan A was to Lunge off the bike onto him. He'd break my fall as we hit the ground.

I'd handcuff him, and that's the end of the story. But uh Plan A's often don't don't don't come to pass like we think they may and this was that case. I got on the pedals and we're I was preparing to lunge onto him. He spun. I didn't see anything in his hands.

It was dark. until there was a loud splash and a thud in my chest. Where he shot me in the chest. I locked the brakes up, went airborne over the handlebars. Another flash, another bang.

That round went through my. Left by. I hit the ground. He I didn't moan, I didn't groan, I didn't roll around, he probably thought I was dead.

So he turns to run. I slowly start reaching for my gun, rolling onto my side. He sees movement. He turns back. And he's coming back towards me as I draw my gun out, and we fire simultaneously, me for the first time, him for the third.

And doctor, by the by the grace of God, he missed, and by the wrath of God, I didn't. Yeah.

he he passed away. He was pronounced out there on the street and You know, I got to go home. And a couple of days later. You were married with kids.

So let's process this first emotionally. What does that do to you? Uh you know, at the time Um, you know, I I I love the Lord and I did. I have a whole backstory that I won't even get into you, but it was one of kind of hopelessness and despair. I came to the Lord.

you know, he he lifted me up out of the mire and gave me peace and hope and all those type things.

So when all this happened, I d I knew you know, the Lord was in control. Uh And so emotionally physically, didn't lose a night's sleep. you know to see God's hand in it. even at the onset. Uh not glad I went through it.

If I could turn back time, and and change it, I would have. But I've seen how God has used it. And I was able to go into several churches and share testimony, brag on the Lord about this experience. And and and sir, the first three or four churches I went into We're all African American churches. and they opened their arms and hearts to me.

And N. uh I I mean, just took me in as family. Not sure that would happen in the environment we're in now. Yeah.

But uh back in ninety six. Yeah, they did and and j this family the family of God thing. That stops real. And Chris, the gentleman that said you'd get them. pointing out that there were drug dealers there.

W was he African American? Oh, yes, he was. Yeah, he he lived out there. Yeah, it's done. I didn't know him.

But uh I knew kind of the environment these folks lived in, and it was tough. It was hard. It was an area that. Kind of was the on the forefront of one of the places we would patrol Because of folks like this, you know, kind of a A side note, I looked at the folder of this shooting a year later. I wanted to see the notes.

I wanted to see the pictures. I just felt like I needed that foreclosure.

So I pull out Yeah, of of this of my shooting. get it from one of our homicide sergeants. and I'm reading through the notes, come to find out there was a young girl Who are came forward. You know, there are a lot of witnesses. There's no shortage of witnesses when a policeman's involved in a shooting.

Half of them weren't even there. didn't know anything, but if you'll put a camera, a news camera in front of their face, a lot of folks will be willing to say what, quote, they saw, which they didn't.

Well They That existed that night too. You know, there were a lot of witnesses that saw me shoot first and do this, this, you know, just crazy, crazy stuff. Found out a year later, I'm reading through this this folder. And there was a young girl, an African-American girl, who I had befriended. and she had dropped out of high school.

I got her to go back to high school and You know, would encourage her, would see her once, twice a week, and how are you doing? And when you graduate, I'm you know, I'm going to be there with a graduation gift and try to do what I could for her. Uh Unbeknownst to me, she came forward. Voluntarily, she came forward to investigators. And uh said, no, this is what happened.

And everything she said just corroborated everything I had told investigators. I mean, she was out there. I didn't know it at the time. Amazing. But she was out there.

She had the courage to come forward And uh Because you know some some of the the the troublemakers, if you were if you will, were kind of her peers. Or folks. You know, much closer in age to her than to that old guy walking down the street that said, Hey, you know. And so uh But she came forward and, um, meant a lot to me. You know, I I I I didn't see after the shooting.

And I to this day I have no idea what happened to her. Yeah.

But I was thankful she was there that that night. Yeah, and Chris, you note in your open letter to Colin Kaepernick on Facebook that during the time when you had to step away, obviously physical recovery and then investigation, whatever, the shooting, that you were living on about $3,000 a month. While on leave, and at that point, supporting a wife and three kids under seven years old. And you also note that just about every cop you know has had to work a supplemental part-time job. in order to Support himself.

There's some realities I think folks need to know with the attack on police coming today. Yeah, they're bad apples as you acknowledge in the open letter. Let's talk about that. How many bad apples are there really? What about seven colleagues of yours that were killed and three Committed suicide.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown.

Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Are you suggesting that you don't think any progress has been made in the last 50 years? Oh no, there's been a lot of progress made, but we still have work to do. And over that period of time, a whole lot of people have died unnecessarily. Um because of improper training for some of our police. That was Kareem Abdul-Jabbar speaking August 30th.

With Jake Tapper on CNN. I'm speaking with retired police officer Chris Amos, now a pastor. He's received multiple awards, twice was selected as Officer of the Year. He was awarded his department's Medal of Valor, Purple Heart, and Life-Saving Medals. Chris, how do you feel when you hear Kareem Al-Dujabar say that on national TV?

Do you find yourself more in agreement with him, disagreement with him? Where do you stand? You know, it Everybody has opinions. Everybody has their own personal experiences. Uh You know, I can only speak to what I know.

And I know our our training is pretty intense. as police officers. Uh I know there's situations and circumstances that a police officer finds himself in. that no amount of training. can really prepare you for.

Uh And it's it's real easy to to to analyze and be that Monday morning quarterback. After The fact. But when you find yourself in a situation and you've got seconds to react and respond, Uh You know, that's a hard, hard place to be in. You know, I was talking to a police officer last week who said, Chris, you know. I can't even do a traffic stop now without Two or three other people stopping, not even involved in the stop and pulling their phones out.

And so there I am. I'm dealing with one or two or three people in this car.

Now two and three other people have metal things in their hands pointed at me. I hope and pray their phones But all it takes is for one time for it not to be a phonic, to be a gun. Yeah.

And and this is just during a simple traffic stop. that police officers now are facing across the country. And that kind of constant stress. I mean, it it's a a hard thing. As I said, are there bad apples?

Yes, there are. Are there bad cops? Yes, there are. And no one, in my opinion. No one should hate a bad cop more than a hundred.

Mm-hmm. Yep. because no one makes a a good cop's job harder. than a bad cop or a dirty cop. I've got two sons on the force.

Uh No one makes their job harder. Then when another Post goes viral. of some policemen. needlessly beaten somebody. or multiple multiple times shooting someone.

Um That that affects my voice. You know, law enforcement is a strange occupation. A teacher can. molest the child in their classroom and no one will think less of the teacher. and the classroom next door are across the hall.

But if a police officer does something in California, Policemen in Virginia. will bear the brunt of it. the the the way you know that just that Rob stroke But one does, they all do, and they lash out. And then, if somebody speaks up and says, Hey, wait a minute. The response is: Well, we're not talking about everybody.

We know they're good policemen, but nobody ever prefaces their conversation. Comments with that. They always just unload on all of us. Yeah, it is very true. And you think Colin Kaepernick did what he did, but people are not saying that reflects on all of the NFL or other players.

And someone might say, yeah, but it happens more with police. But again, you say in your open letter to Colin Kaepernick, there are almost 800,000 law enforcement officers. If there was any, if it was 10%. That we're bad apples and we're committing regularly violent acts and engaging in acts of racial prejudice, whatever, then you'd have dozens and dozens and dozens of videos every single day all over America.

So it does not diminish the wrong that's done by a bad apple because that's a person in authority. Absolutely not.

So, Chris, since you served in African-American communities, obviously you're there. To help. You're not there to hurt. You're there to help. Why is it that often that white America sees police more positively than black America does?

And I'm giving a broad, broad, overly broad description, but why do you think that is? You know, I don't know. I think from the responses I've gotten, you know, private messaging. A lot of you know a lot of African Americans, you know, young, old. a male female sworn civilian.

Have uh Boysphere support. that would never post it online.

So I think there's some some fear, some blowback. you know, some have mentioned as much. They're you know, if somebody knew they were saying this kind of a thing. Uh I I think part of it is You know, in a sense, Andy Griffith has kind of Done. Policing a disservice.

And that police officer, Stockton Brown. Our major are major. Responsibility is law enforcement. And no one, no one likes that, whether you're a Fortune five hundred CEO or whether you're living on food stamps. Nobody wants to be pulled over.

Nobody wants to be issued a ticket. Nobody so by the very nature of what we do, it's not going to elicit a whole lot of fanfare. Because I'm We we're not popular. you know, policemen, if if where policemen fall short, and maybe a lot, if not most, policemen. is just plain what what I would considered like our our Uh customer service.

You know. We can be kind of brupt, we can be kind of or abrupt, we can be kind of rude. We can uh You know, we can just come across. As You know, just jerks. But that's a far cry.

from taking a gun out every chance we get. And needlessly shut. shooting someone, murdering someone. putting a notch in our our gun belt. That is the exception.

That is not That is not the norm. Yeah, and Chris, one time I was pulled over. for going through a red light one you know my new york habit of speeding up at a Yellow light, and I was in Pensacola, Florida, where they kind of had the opposite habit there. And uh. I had just, I was writing a book and I was just meditating on constructive rebuke and different things like that and God's correction.

So the officer, you know, got my info, but when he came back over to talk with me, I thanked him for doing his job and told him what a blessing it was. Oh, he said, oh man, I already wrote it up. It's too late. I said, no, really, I just want to thank you. I knew he didn't hear that much, but on behalf of many of us who have been pulled over, many of us whose lives have been saved, many of us who have been protected, yes, we all stand against the bad apples and want to see injustice exposed, but we thank the overwhelming number of you that have served.

Now, your son serving here at the risk of your own life.

So thank you, sir. And may your letter speak to many and hopefully to Colin Kaepernick as well. Amen. Thank you, Dr. Brown, for having me.

God bless you and blessings on your pastoral ministry. This is probably more challenging than being a cop, huh? Thank you. Yes, well, you you would know, I guess it is. Yeah, but probably a little less dangerous.

All right, God bless you, man. Grace to you. Thanks so much.

Okay.

Thank you. Bye. All right. If you want to read that, I'm sure if you just get online and search for Chris Amos, C-H-R-I-S, Chris Amos, open letter to Colin Kaepernick, you'll spot it and give it a read. It's worthwhile.

Shake the nation. Change the world. Change the world. It's the line of fire with your host, activist, author, international speaker, and theologian Dr. Michael Brown.

Your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Get into the line of fire now by calling 866-34TRUTH. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Modesty. Simplicity. Humility. By these canonical keywords, we are taught that we may recognize saints. Yet Mother Teresa regards herself as mandated by Heaven.

which is hardly modest. She lends spiritual solace to dictators and to wealthy exploiters. which is scarcely the essence of simplicity. and she preaches surrender and prostration to the poor, which a truly humble person would barely have the nerve to do. When she speaks about private or public morality, opposing family planning, for example, or defining abortion as quite literally the greatest threat to world peace.

she takes on the grim and tedious tones of the zealot and the fanatic. The voice of the late Christopher Hitchens. And Eh Of The many things he did that were unpopular perhaps One of the most unpopular was attacking Mother Teresa. This is Michael Brown. You are listening to The Lion of Fire.

And I want to take a moment to discuss Mother Teresa, 866-348-7884. Number to call. And grab clip number seven. This is AP News. And this is why we bring up Mother Teresa.

This is what is in the news regarding her today. Mother Teresa of Calcutta, a nun who dedicated her life to helping the poor, will be made a saint of the Roman Catholic Church at a Vatican ceremony on September 4th. Born in Yugoslavia in 1910, Teresa traveled to India at age 18 and taught geography at a convent school. 20 years later, she opened her first school in the Calcutta slums. She was honored by many world and religious leaders, including the Pope, Indian premiers Indira Gandhi and Narasimha Rao, and British Queen Elizabeth II.

Teresa died in 1997 at age 87. All right. I completely dismiss the Christopher Hitchens attacks. I'm Mother Teresa. in terms of her being some bad or evil person.

And, aside from every human being being fallen outside of pieces, we understand that. theologians listening. And I absolutely reject the Catholic doctrine of sainthood. I mean, if we're going to use biblical terminology, the moment you're born again, you're a saint. I certainly didn't act like a saint.

I I understand that. But the moment you're born again, You're a saint. That's the truth. According to Scripture, to the saints in Corinth. They didn't really act like saints.

You read the whole letter. But the moment you're born again, you're set apart as holy, and that's the Greek word for saint. You're set apart as holy. You're a holy one. Think of getting up and greeting everyone in church on Sunday.

Hey, every all you sinners out there, great to see you. as opposed to all you saints, bless the Lord. Yeah, we're saints the moment we're saved.

So this idea of you become Saint, you become Saint Paul. Or St. John the Baptist, who was actually Rabbi John the Rabbi Jochan on the immerser.

Sounds a little different than St. John the Baptist, but be that as it may. Be that as it may, I completely reject. This whole Catholic method of sainthood. If you're Catholic, it has meaning to you, that's between you and God, but I reject it biblically, okay?

But Mother Teresa said a lot of exceptional things about pro-life. And even about Jesus. The question was, was she Mary first, Jesus second, in her mind set? Did she have an appearance of doing good, but really didn't? I want to share a little bit about that, just briefly.

Just briefly, I'm not a Catholic, as you know. I'm also not a Catholic basher, which means that I don't devote my shows week after week to just finding the latest news to bash Catholics. And I have friends of mine that are not Catholic bashers, but have debated Catholics and are, of course, going to take issue with Catholic theology as I would. On various points, and I certainly believe there are saved Catholics, but not primarily because of Catholic doctrine, but despite certain doctrine. The positive would be pointing to Jesus and pointing to the Bible and pointing to the cross, but then the other things I would strongly differ with.

But Mother Teresa, very interesting life. and a life that challenges many of us.

So I want to comment on that when we come back. Angel World. Give us strict to always do what's right. It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution.

Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Alright, so, so, for a moment. For a moment. I want to put aside Differences with Catholic theology All right. And I just want to talk about some interesting things about the life of Mother Teresa. And you say, why do you need to preface it like that?

Because there are some folks that the moment you say anything positive about a Catholic they will accuse you of being part of the world ecumenical movement and a false prophet and a member of the Illuminati.

So, for the sake of those who are listening, with that mind set, Yes, I qualify my comments here. And if you want to weigh in with your own view, go ahead, 866-348-7884. And again, to repeat what I said earlier, I disagree with this whole Catholic process: if someone becomes canonized and becomes a saint, and no, biblically speaking, if you're going to use that word, the moment you're born again, you become a saint. And we're called to be saints. The moment you're born again, you're called holy.

Now you're called to live a holy life and expect to live a holy life by the Lord with his help. But what's very interesting about Mother Teresa Is her own story that she had this tremendously intense spiritual encounter? And based on that. or inspired by that, completely and unconditionally gave herself to serve the poorest of the poor and and lived with tremendous simplicity, and whatever monies came through her hands did not affect her lifestyle. And she served the hurting and the poor, people that most of us would avoid because of their condition being so repulsive.

She gave herself to them so that they could die with some type of dignity, and she did it because of her belief in Jesus. And if you'll read her letters and writings, you'll find many expressing tremendous devotion to Jesus, expressing tremendous love for the Lord.

Now, again, God's her judge. I'm not her judge. I'm simply talking about some of the spirituality she expressed as a Catholic woman. What's interesting though is when you read about her life, which can really challenge us in many regards. Not to lay a guilt trip on us, but to challenge us what it means to serve, what it means to love the lowly and the hurting.

but it means to care for those who cannot offer anything back. That she has this intense spiritual experience. and now completely gives herself over, To God's service and and to serve the poor and the hurting. and for the rest of her life never experiences God in that way. and for the rest of her life is spiritually hungry and thirsty and desperate and hurting And yet she continues living as she lived because of the commitment that she made.

She continues living as she lived because of the encounter she once had.

Now, you can read a million things into that.

Alright, you can have all your answers and reasons for that. And it's obviously something that raises lots of questions. but it speaks to a level of devotion and service. Because most of us, if we don't have some type of encouragement from the Lord on some level, in an ongoing way. If we don't have some fellowship with the Lord in prayer and the word, if we don't have some encouragement from the Lord with people being helped by what we do.

If we don't have some thank you somewhere or some sense of divine affirmation or approval somewhere, and it's year in, year out, year in, year out, year in, year out. We're serving in difficult situations. That would break most of us. That would cause most of us to question, am I really doing God's will?

So uh Nancy a few years back read a lot of what she had to say. and sent me a bunch of the quotes. But what struck me was her agony of soul of wanting to commune with God and and not finding any communion with him. It was in that sense like a hell on earth. after experiencing him in that uh intense, intense way.

Um so she said this Jesus has a very special love for you. But as for me, she's writing to some of the Envanderpete. But as for me, the silence and the emptiness is so great that I look and do not see, listen and do not hear. The tongue moves in prayer but does not speak. There is a tremendous example of courage and sacrifice in her life that we can learn from.

And when she speaks about life and she speaks about pro life, she had tremendous courage. Wasn't it at a prayer breakfast attended by the Clintons? And and and Al Gore, if I'm correct. where Billy Graham was ill and couldn't speak And Mother Teresa took his place, tiny little Mother Teresa. and proceeded to speak of abortion as the great sin in the land of America.

And basically said when a mother kills her own children, what else is left? In other words, how can you go any lower than that? And spoke about the spoke about the Oh. as that which caused tremendous Sin and had a ripple effect throughout throughout. the nation.

And of course, she did this with compassion for the mothers and compassion for the children. And there, right in the presence. Of Bill and Hillary Clinton. I'm almost sure about this. I remember in those days, I was preaching for David Wilkerson and I remember him commenting on it.

I'm almost sure it was during the days when I was preaching regularly for Pastor Dave in New York City from somewhere between 91 and 95. And I remember him talking about that: that here, you know, God sent a prophetic message to the White House or to the president, to the administration with this little woman. coming over from India. and and brings this great word So there was tremendous courage and tremendous insight about the pro-life movement. A chapter that I wrote recently about developing a culture of life for a book that'll come out about a year from now.

Um I uh I found some very, very powerful quotes from her.

So, enough said. If you get to read her letters, it is absolutely fascinating. Joey, grab clip number four. I want to. Yeah, it was a prayer breakfast.

Right.

Okay.

I had that right. Grab clip number four. I want you to hear the voice of Professor Craig Keener. Then I'll tell you why I'm playing this. Ancient biographies, which is what the Gospels were, Often began by praising their subjects' ancestors when the ancestors were significant, or by praising their subjects' upbringing.

or by recounting significant episodes about the subject's birth or childhood that portend later greatness. Ancestry seven generations back could affect your taxation status in ancient Egypt.

So Those who had really significant ancestries in particular Would keep track of their ancestries. Priests would do that, somebody descended from the royal line, which obviously would include the Messiah. And we do have other sources that suggest that Jesus' relatives Were descended from the royal line. They were hailed before a Roman Emperor because of that. All right, so Craig Keener is giving cultural background to the Bible, explaining the purpose of genealogies.

And last week I had Craig on with me a week ago today.

Some of you may have missed the interview, and we took two hours. And discuss the importance of understanding the cultural background to the Bible, putting verses in their original cultural context. And as you do, you have many, many aha moments. Oh, now that makes it, oh, that's what that verse was about. Oh, that made sense.

Here, picture this. You're reading the news, but you don't know what year it is. You have no idea of what's going on. You don't know what country you're talking about. You don't know the names of any of the players.

And you hear that someone named Colin Kaepernick didn't stand up during the national anthem of a football game. But you don't know what football is, you don't know who Colin Kaepernick is, you don't know what the Star-Spangled Banner is, and you don't know what the issues are in 21st century America. Are you going to make head of tail out of that? No.

So many times in the Bible, Yeah. get certain information, certain understanding. But there are certain verses you look at, it's like, oh. What does it mean? And then you get the cultural background.

Oh, okay. Got it. and the light goes on. I was so impressed now that the NIV Cultural Backgrounds Bible is out, 2,350 pages worth. I was so impressed with this that I decided to offer it this way, excuse me, this week.

Uh, to, I'm looking at the page, and the page said way, so I said way instead of week. This week, uh, together with the interview I did with Craig, so a two-hour interview you can listen to on your on your computer, your mp3 player. I'm looking right now, the book of Job. I've written the commentary to Job, super insisted in Job. And here, there are whole page articles, two pages on how the book of Job differs from ancient Eastern thinking, and then another article on ways in which Job thinks like an Israelite.

And then, where there's mourning in Job 2, boom, here's a picture of ancient Egyptian mourning rites. We are offering the entire cultural backgrounds Bible together with. The exclusive two-hour interview. Get it on our website.

So you're helping us as you do, but you're also getting this exclusive interview. A great early holiday gift: askdr2brown.org. Yeah.

It's the line of fire with your host, Dr. Michael Brown, your voice of moral, cultural, and spiritual revolution. Here again is Dr. Michael Brown.

Make sure we read it in context. Also, let's embrace it in faith. trust the Spirit of God to speak to us. to to change us As we hear God's voice in In the scriptures? That's how we read the word: spirit and truth.

Right? Spirit and truth, Scriptures and power of God, God, open my heart, teach me, lead me, and then you study, and then you learn. That was the voice of Professor Craig Keener. Yeah, I had remembered.

Somebody remember that prayer breakfast being during the years when I was preaching at Times Square Church, so between 91 and 95.

So thanks, man. It was February 3rd, 1994, when Mother Teresa gave her speech at the National Prayer Breakfast in D.C. in the presence of Bill Clinton, Al Gore. She said, I feel that the greatest destroyer of peace today is abortion. Because it is a war against the child.

A direct killing of the innocent child murdered by the mother herself, if that wasn't controversial enough, she also said the way to plan the family is natural family planning, not contraception.

So, yeah, that was very clearly spoken by Mother Teresa. All right, tell you what, here's what we're going to do. Here's what we're going to do. Um. Mm-mm-mm.

Joey. Give me a verse. Any verse. Howard. Matt.

Give me a verse, any verse, and I'm going to open up to the NIV Cultural Background Bible. And so we're not asking me. About this verse, we're asking the Bible, just come on. Throw me a verse up here on the screen. And as soon as I do, I'm going to open up to that.

So Joey, Matt, Howard, surely you have a verse you're curious about. Just put a scripture reference up. How John 3.16, come on, man. You need cultural background for John three sixteen? Um Well, thankfully It does explain that God so loved the world means in this way.

God loved the world. We normally take it to mean he loved the world so much. He did love it so much as to send his son, but in this way, God loved the world. And Craig Keener says, Jewish teachers emphasize God's extraordinary love for Israel, self-sacrificing love for the world.

However, this exceeds that love. God's loving character here fits the Old Testament.

So, what happens on the cross now, even Even exceeds The love of God that was expressed for ancient Israel. But yeah, there is even a practical note on it: God so loved, meaning in this way God loved the world. Hey, I did say any verse, I did. I did. All right.

Joey says, Galatians 3:11. Again, these are the notes. The New Testament prepared by Craig Keener, the Old Testament by John Walton. These would have been the two men. If I could only pick two men, one for the Old Testament, one for the New, I would have picked these two men.

So, Galatians 3:11. First to 3:11 to 13.

So, let me read 3:11 first. Clearly, no one who relies on the law is justified before God because the righteous will live by faith.

So, Uh I'll read the note 3.11. Paul links with Genesis 15, 6, the only other text that includes both the word righteous and faith together.

So Habakkuk 2:4 and Genesis 15.6 are the only two verses, the only two verses in the Bible that have the word righteous and faith together. And Paul draws on that to notice that the righteous live by faith. All right. Matt's asking about Genesis 15:9. Yeah, that ties in with 34:18.

Good, good. The cutting of the covenantal pieces. Why did Abram pass through them? And by the way, you don't need me to do this, okay? This is not like bedtime stories.

You can get the Bible for yourself. All right. So, Genesis 15. And oh, look at this. Check this out.

We have two whole pages. on ratifying the covenant. Controversy remains about what kind of ceremony is carried out in Genesis 15, 9 to 21. Whom do the pieces represent? Possibilities, sacrifice for oath, God of He renegs, nations already as good as dead, Israelites in slavery, whom do the birds of prey represent?

Nations seeking to seize available land, for example, Genesis 14 to plunder Israel. Whom do the implements represent? God and/or Abraham?

So wow, I mean, this is an in-depth discussion here. an in-depth discussion and What what uh What happens here is the cutting of the covenantal pieces. You take animals, you see it in Genesis 15, you see it in Jeremiah 34, but you also have it in Near Eastern literature outside of the Bible. What happened was you would cut these animals up into two pieces, all right?

So it's a bloody, gory mess. And then, let's say, two kings made a covenant. and they would take an oath to their various gods, whatever it was, may the gods do such and such to me If I violate the terms of this covenant, in other words, may I be like these bloodied animals, and they would walk through the pieces together, which we also have in Jeremiah chapter 34. These are the two times it's mentioned in the Bible, Genesis 15 and Jeremiah 34.

So, 34, 18, they cut the calf in two. The footnote says the ritual of severing an animal's body as part of a covenant-making ceremony is found only here and in Genesis 15, 9 and 10, with reference to the article I just mentioned. Ancient Near Eastern parallels from the old Babylonian Mari letters and the 8th century BC Aramaic text of the Sefira Treaty between Aban and Yarim Lin both describe cutting an animal in two. The symbolic aspect of this type of sacrifice is to provide a graphic picture of what would happen to the covenant breaker. When the landowners of Judah took back their dead slaves after the Egyptian invasion had temporarily lifted the siege of Jerusalem, they broke their solemn oath to Yahweh and laid themselves open to horrendous punishment.

In other words, may this happen to us. May we be like these pieces. Significantly, in Genesis 15, as Abram is sleeping, a flaming torch passes through the pieces, which would point to God passing through the pieces and making a one-way covenant with Abram while he slept. I'm going to give the land of Israel to your descendants. That's why we say, although the Sinai covenant was conditional, the promise to Abram was unconditional.

Do I have time for one more? Yeah, Joe, Matt, I did it earlier in the week where callers could call in with their questions. And sure thing, we will. We will maybe open the phones together tomorrow where folks can call in, and I'll share what the cultural background Bible says. All right, Joey.

Having fun, first corinth 26:18. As for the court to the west, there were four at the road and two at the court itself. Uh, here we have a note saying the Hebrew term parbar is thought to be a Persian loanword, and it is an obscure architectural term that may refer to an open colonnade with pillars. Its location is west of the sanctuary to the rear, and on this page, a picture of an ancient temple.

So, there you have it. Here's how you get this. Go to my website, askdrbrown, ASKDRBrown.org. When you purchase the NIV Cultural Background Study Bible from us, you're helping us in the ministry work that we do. If you can include an additional donation, that would be awesome.

And And we are sending you with the Bible our exclusive two-hour interview with Professor Craig Keener to listen to on your MP3 player or your computer. All right, my bottom line today, the key for social justice, the key for blessing on America is to live by the principles of the living word of the living God.